24 réponses à ce sujet

[Jure Simich]

Reading the wiki, it would seem that at least some powers can ignore at least some defence layers. Does anyone know more on the subject? The wiki seems somewhat unhelpful in the format...

What I gather so far:
-Stasis: ignores all defences, but doesn't work on the most important enemies (notably, Harbinger)
-Singularity: staggers, but doesn't float protected enemies, apparently periodically?, doesn't work against the most important enemies (but DOES work on Harbinger)
-Shockwave: staggers protected enemies (forcing them out of cover for a moment?)
-Flashbang grenade: seems to have some sort of incapacitating effect even on protected enemies

(P.S. I've only played infiltrators so far, and I can't really check all the powers myself without a lot of work...)

[CaolIla]

Well stasis is just relentless, you can nearly capture everything in it, including full protected YMIR's and Scions which makes it really popular for those who try to beat the project rho fight. And in addition to capturing an enemy for a few seconds, right after the capture effect wears out, weapon damage gets a huge increase and that way you can take out a YMIR with a single shot (depending on some variables, but still).
Singularity staggers anything but huge enemies (YMIR, Praetorian etc.) but while in range of the Singularity every protection gets damaged.constantly, even that of YMIR's and Praetorians.
Flashbang is very effective against Harbinger, it leaves him standing around and helpless, so that's pretty nice.
I can't say much about Shockwave, but like most powers it staggers protected enemies, but that also works with powers like Pull or Throw. Especially if you play offensive that can be really helpful, it just staggers for a second or something like that, but while running that's usually enough to get into the next cover or give the staggered enemy some shots to the face.

[Bogsnot1]

Incineration Blast does the same damage to shields and barriers, as it does to armour, making it the most versatile protection stripping power.
The only difference is that it doesnt ignite enemies protected by shields and barriers and cause panic, like it does with armoured foes.

[Jure Simich]

Pull and Throw stagger protected enemies? Hmm, a 3 sec. cooldown ability that forces an enemy out of cover could be useful.

Anyway, I'm 3 missions from finishing Insanity on my Infiltrator, and I'm going to stick to normal difficulty in the future. I want to see the flashy stuff, not have to do 90% of the work with my guns...

[Doriath]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Incineration Blast does the same damage to shields and barriers, as it does to armour, making it the most versatile protection stripping power.
The only difference is that it doesnt ignite enemies protected by shields and barriers and cause panic, like it does with armoured foes.

Yep, it also does less damage to all synthetic targets, armor or not. Still, its probably the best overall defense stripping power. Incinerate does stagger anything it hits as well, irregardless of protection. Makes Mordin one of my most used teammates.

Since it was brought up, Flashbang has ridiculous effect on protected targets. Not only does it damage (although it isn't much) all protection types, it will overheat weapons, shutdown enemy tech/biotic power use and stagger all enemies in its very large radius irregardless of protection. In addition to that, it will instantly kill unprotected husks, so combined with the large radius, it can kill literally handfuls of them with one activation if their armor is stripped prior.

Modifié par chrisnabal, 12 octobre 2011 - 08:44 .

[Sarah_SR2]

Heavy incinerate causes mildly armoured or unprotected pyros to explode ) And they can take out close by enemies with them too ) I've also found that concussive shot rips into barriers nicely as well.

[Doriath]

Sarah_SR2 wrote...

Heavy incinerate causes mildly armoured or unprotected pyros to explode ) And they can take out close by enemies with them too ) I've also found that concussive shot rips into barriers nicely as well.

Yeah, concussive shot gets a huge damage boost against barriers, 3-4 times the damage or something like that. It's probably dealing over 250 damage to barriers at the heavy evolution rank.

[Alistair_Dunscon]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Incineration Blast does the same damage to shields and barriers, as it does to armour, making it the most versatile protection stripping power.
The only difference is that it doesnt ignite enemies protected by shields and barriers and cause panic, like it does with armoured foes.

Since when?

According to Christina Norman, incinerate has a damage multiplier against armor and only armor.

http://social.biowar...8/index/1143264

[Doriath]

It does only have a damage multiplier against armor, but it deals listed damage against barriers, shields and health (organics only).

Modifié par chrisnabal, 13 octobre 2011 - 02:22 .

[capn233]

Most of the abilities list their vanilla damage and then their multipliers.

The multipliers are what makes them effective, since many of they have somewhat lackluster base damage. Concussive Shot is a prime example, as it has pretty weak base damage, but a 3.5x multiplier to barriers. Warp has a 2x multiplier to barriers and armor. Likewise, Reave has a 2x multiplier against barriers and armor. Incinerate has a multiplier of 2.4x for armor.

Incinerate isn't unique in damaging protections that it isn't ideal against. Warp, for example, can be used against shields, even if the damage output isn't that great.

Overload is the power that is somewhat different in that it only damages shields or synthetic health, unlike the others which damage basically everything at least a little. Overload gets a 2x multiplier to its base damage against shields.

Modifié par capn233, 13 octobre 2011 - 03:25 .

[Bogsnot1]

Alistair_Dunscon wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Incineration Blast does the same damage to shields and barriers, as it does to armour, making it the most versatile protection stripping power.
The only difference is that it doesnt ignite enemies protected by shields and barriers and cause panic, like it does with armoured foes.

Since when?

According to Christina Norman, incinerate has a damage multiplier against armor and only armor.

http://social.biowar...8/index/1143264

OK, got it slightly wrong.
From the wiki

Incinerate deals the listed damage amount against barriers, shields and organic health. Synthetic enemies are fire resistant and take significantly less damage to both health and armour.
...
Against armor, the damage this ability deals is 2.4 times the usual amount.

Still, makes it more versatile than the other defence stripping powers.

[CaolIla]

capn233 wrote...
Overload is the power that is somewhat different in that it only damages shields or synthetic health, unlike the others which damage basically everything at least a little. Overload gets a 2x multiplier to its base damage against shields.

I might be wrong, but doesn't it only not damage Health of organics? I think it doesn't damage Armor too, but doesn't it damage Barriers?

[capn233]

CaolIla wrote...

capn233 wrote...
Overload is the power that is somewhat different in that it only damages shields or synthetic health, unlike the others which damage basically everything at least a little. Overload gets a 2x multiplier to its base damage against shields.

I might be wrong, but doesn't it only not damage Health of organics? I think it doesn't damage Armor too, but doesn't it damage Barriers?

I looked in the wiki and apparently it does deal base damage to barriers and armor.  The only thing it doesn't' damage is organic health.

[Onpoint17]

Yes, I found out quite by accident that overload can damage barriers. It really shouldn't be red when facing an opponent with a barrier. One overload blast can take a barrier down by half.

[Doriath]

Onpoint17 wrote...

Yes, I found out quite by accident that overload can damage barriers. It really shouldn't be red when facing an opponent with a barrier. One overload blast can take a barrier down by half.

So can an incinerate or energy drain. They all do comparable damage to layers they don't have damage mulitpliers against.



Main difference between incinerate and overload/energy drain is that incinerate will damage both organic/synthetic health, and overload and energy drain only damages synthetic. Incinerate is then slightly more versatile.

Modifié par chrisnabal, 13 octobre 2011 - 10:33 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Alistair_Dunscon wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Incineration Blast does the same damage to shields and barriers, as it does to armour, making it the most versatile protection stripping power.
The only difference is that it doesnt ignite enemies protected by shields and barriers and cause panic, like it does with armoured foes.

Since when?

According to Christina Norman, incinerate has a damage multiplier against armor and only armor.

http://social.biowar...8/index/1143264

However, all tech powers have a base multiplier of 1.5x vs shields... So Incinerate's not quite as good on shields as on armor, but still very good, esp. since you can curve it.


Plus, Incinerate does burst AND burn damage, so it benefits from both power and duration upgrades.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 21 octobre 2011 - 06:36 .

[Alistair_Dunscon]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Alistair_Dunscon wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Incineration Blast does the same damage to shields and barriers, as it does to armour, making it the most versatile protection stripping power.
The only difference is that it doesnt ignite enemies protected by shields and barriers and cause panic, like it does with armoured foes.

Since when?

According to Christina Norman, incinerate has a damage multiplier against armor and only armor.

http://social.biowar...8/index/1143264

However, all tech powers have a base multiplier of 1.5x vs shields... So Incinerate's not quite as good on shields as on armor, but still very good, esp. since you can curve it.

Do you have a source for that? That's actually not what Christina Norman's post says.

Modifié par Alistair_Dunscon, 21 octobre 2011 - 08:26 .

[RedCaesar97]

Alistair_Dunscon wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
However, all tech powers have a base multiplier of 1.5x vs shields... So Incinerate's not quite as good on shields as on armor, but still very good, esp. since you can curve it.

Do you have a source for that? That's actually not what Christina Norman's post says.

It is actually in Christina Norman's post (bolded for reference):

Power Damage Modifiers vs Resistances:

• Warp, Reave: x2 armor, barrier
• Overload, Energy Drain: x2 shields
• Concussive Shot: x3.5 barrier (note this is a low damage power)
• Incinerate: x2.4 vs armor
• Incendiary Grenade: x2 vs armor
• All other biotics: x1.5 barrier
• All other tech powers: x1.5 shields
• Shadow Strike: x2.0 to shields, armor, barrier
• Flashbang Grenade: x1.0 to shields, armor, barrier

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 21 octobre 2011 - 08:58 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Yeah, that. Thx, RedCaesar97.

The base 1.5x for biotics vs barrier is less pertinent than with tech b/c fewer biotics do pure damage.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 21 octobre 2011 - 09:33 .

[Alistair_Dunscon]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Alistair_Dunscon wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
However, all tech powers have a base multiplier of 1.5x vs shields... So Incinerate's not quite as good on shields as on armor, but still very good, esp. since you can curve it.

Do you have a source for that? That's actually not what Christina Norman's post says.

It is actually in Christina Norman's post (bolded for reference):

Power Damage Modifiers vs Resistances:

• Warp, Reave: x2 armor, barrier
• Overload, Energy Drain: x2 shields
• Concussive Shot: x3.5 barrier (note this is a low damage power)
• Incinerate: x2.4 vs armor
• Incendiary Grenade: x2 vs armor
• All other biotics: x1.5 barrier
• All other tech powers: x1.5 shields
• Shadow Strike: x2.0 to shields, armor, barrier
• Flashbang Grenade: x1.0 to shields, armor, barrier

I know what it says. Why do you think  "all other tech powers" includes incinerate when incinerate appeared earlier in the list absent any mention of that multiplier?

"All other tech powers" pretty clearly refers to tech powers other than the ones that were already listed. i.e. not overload, energy drain or incinerate

Modifié par Alistair_Dunscon, 22 octobre 2011 - 01:10 .

[Ekemeister]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Alistair_Dunscon wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
However, all tech powers have a base multiplier of 1.5x vs shields... So Incinerate's not quite as good on shields as on armor, but still very good, esp. since you can curve it.

Do you have a source for that? That's actually not what Christina Norman's post says.

It is actually in Christina Norman's post (bolded for reference):

Power Damage Modifiers vs Resistances:

• Warp, Reave: x2 armor, barrier
• Overload, Energy Drain: x2 shields
• Concussive Shot: x3.5 barrier (note this is a low damage power)
• Incinerate: x2.4 vs armor
• Incendiary Grenade: x2 vs armor
• All other biotics: x1.5 barrier
• All other tech powers: x1.5 shields
• Shadow Strike: x2.0 to shields, armor, barrier
• Flashbang Grenade: x1.0 to shields, armor, barrier

[*]Sadly, Shepard won't be getting shadow strike until maybe ME3.

[capn233]

Tactical cloak + heavy melee is essentially Shadow Strike.

[Darkstar Aurora]

Incinerate, tech powers, and the x1.5 tech damage bonus vs shields...

Alas, though I wish it did (and up until about an hour ago I had always assumed so), upon testing I feel it is safe to declare that Incinerate does NOT benefit from the x1.5 tech bonus versus shields. I do not have the PC version, nor the means to upload a video (nor even a current era PC), but I can provide my data if anyone wishes to replicate/test the results or point out anything I may have missed:

Details:
30th level, Insanity, N7 Blue Suns mission (any), Xbox 360 original version, no patch updates or DLC. Only up to 5th tier of power damage upgrades.

Expected/Calculated Damage (before resistance modifiers, if applicable):
Mordin = Heavy Incinerate 357 damage
(210 base + 70% [50% Tech Damage upgrades + 20% Mordin Omni-Tool])

Adept = Heavy Warp 346 damage
(200 base + 73% [50% Biotic Damage upgrades + 15% Nemesis +5% Amplifier Plates +3% N7 Breastplate])

Subject: vs Blue Suns Trooper (500* shields = 30th level, Insanity)

Result: Mordin consistently brought his shields within the "u" in Blue. Shepard consistently brought his shields within the “e” in Blue.

If Heavy Incinerate did have an extra x1.5 resistance multiplier against shields it would have completely removed them, because resistance modifiers on powers are always applied at the end, after upgrades and other % bonuses are added and applied. Instead the “extra” sliver of damage it dealt is in line with the expected % difference between the two (11 points of shield damage, or 4% of total shields).

Moreover, even IF the x1.5 modifier is not applied at the end but is added together and applied simultaneously as a total % with upgrades (they are not) the resulting damage difference on his shield bar would be FAR greater than the width of half a letter..it would have been at least an extra 1/5 of his shield bar in this calculation order.

I can confirm that the x1.5 modifier for “non-damaging” biotic powers does affect their damage against barriers compared to shields/armor, and thus would assume this also applied to non-damaging tech powers as well. But the biotic specifics may have to wait for my “Shockwave vs. defenses” reply tomorrow because it is very late and I like to elaborate on specifics and details.

*Note: The resistance (armor/barrier/shield) values for 30th level “minion” rank enemies (500) is reverse calculated using the total damage formulas for Overload/Warp with upgrades. Heavy versions can completely remove their resistances with 3 damage upgrades (520 damage) whereas with the Area/Unstable version you need 6 upgrades (512) to remove them (even though it looks like they are removed with 5 upgrades). I used the lesser 480 damage versions and used Avenger shots to assume the remainder is an even 20.

Modifié par Darkstar Aurora, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:42 .

[Random70]

Darkstar Aurora wrote...

Incinerate, tech powers, and the x1.5 tech damage bonus vs shields...

Alas, though I wish it did (and up until about an hour ago I had always assumed so), upon testing I feel it is safe to declare that Incinerate does NOT benefit from the x1.5 tech bonus versus shields. I do not have the PC version, nor the means to upload a video (nor even a current era PC), but I can provide my data if anyone wishes to replicate/test the results or point out anything I may have missed:

Details:
30th level, Insanity, N7 Blue Suns mission (any), Xbox 360 original version, no patch updates or DLC. Only up to 5th tier of power damage upgrades.

Expected/Calculated Damage (before resistance modifiers, if applicable):
Mordin = Heavy Incinerate 357 damage
(210 base + 70% [50% Tech Damage upgrades + 20% Mordin Omni-Tool])

Adept = Heavy Warp 346 damage
(200 base + 73% [50% Biotic Damage upgrades + 15% Nemesis +5% Amplifier Plates +3% N7 Breastplate])

Subject: vs Blue Suns Trooper (500* shields = 30th level, Insanity)

Result: Mordin consistently brought his shields within the "u" in Blue. Shepard consistently brought his shields within the “e” in Blue.

If Heavy Incinerate did have an extra x1.5 resistance multiplier against shields it would have completely removed them, because resistance modifiers on powers are always applied at the end, after upgrades and other % bonuses are added and applied. Instead the “extra” sliver of damage it dealt is in line with the expected % difference between the two (11 points of shield damage, or 4% of total shields).

Moreover, even IF the x1.5 modifier is not applied at the end but is added together and applied simultaneously as a total % with upgrades (they are not) the resulting damage difference on his shield bar would be FAR greater than the width of half a letter..it would have been at least an extra 1/5 of his shield bar in this calculation order.

I can confirm that the x1.5 modifier for “non-damaging” biotic powers does affect their damage against barriers compared to shields/armor, and thus would assume this also applied to non-damaging tech powers as well. But the biotic specifics may have to wait for my “Shockwave vs. defenses” reply tomorrow because it is very late and I like to elaborate on specifics and details.

*Note: The resistance (armor/barrier/shield) values for 30th level “minion” rank enemies (500) is reverse calculated using the total damage formulas for Overload/Warp with upgrades. Heavy versions can completely remove their resistances with 3 damage upgrades (520 damage) whereas with the Area/Unstable version you need 6 upgrades (512) to remove them (even though it looks like they are removed with 5 upgrades). I used the lesser 480 damage versions and used Avenger shots to assume the remainder is an even 20.

Short Version: I ran some similar tests a couple of days ago on PC and can cofirm all of this.
Long Version: Spent an hour formulating a detailed reply and then ****ing Firefox crashed before I could post. Maybe tomorrow

[JaegerBane]

Onpoint17 wrote...

Yes, I found out quite by accident that overload can damage barriers. It really shouldn't be red when facing an opponent with a barrier. One overload blast can take a barrier down by half.

To be honest, the red indicator is a load of rubbish a lot of the time. Its red when Energy Drain is used against a shielded organic, go figure...