2261 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

In other words, you just feel like trashing people because it's easier to paint them in a bad light, and thus their arguments by association, than it is to actually have a coherent argument of your own. 

No. Just people like you that refuse to take anyone's points into consideration and just toss out "I'm right and you're wrong" conjectures repeatedly with no basis in the physical reality that we occupy. You build straw man arguements that have nothing to do with what was said, and you take things completely out of context. Your sig claiming Origin is spyware is proof to that fact as well. Seeing as Steam has the same clause, has been around for years, and I don't see you saying it's spyware too. If you can have an intelligent, two-way, discussion then go right ahead. You, sir, cannot. You don't shut up until you've been ignored because it's completely impossible you could ever be wrong about something. So yes, your arguements are invalid by association with your fingers.

Your claim that Origin isn't spyware is proof enough that you're not paying attention to what's actually going on.  BTW, I refuse to install Steam on my PC or buy any game that requires Steam -- it's just that we're not on a Steam-related forum, and Origin goes a step farther in capabity to spy. 

As for the rest of your post, it just shows that you're not paying attention to who is posting what in these discussions. 

1.You don't download any thing to have origin.
2. Valve has the same power as steam
3.Origin only checksup on your mp gamesto make sure your not cheating.

Modifié par dreman9999, 14 octobre 2011 - 04:52 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter .....
Why am I not surprised you are against mp? It like your allergic to change and use any excuse to hate anything.

I've been over why I'm concerned by the inclusion of MP in ME3 several times.  Some of the issues which have been discussed already:   

1)  Resources which COULD have been used for SP.  (Not would, could.  Please see previous go-arounds on the subject). 

2)  Influx of typical online MP players, with their attitudes, behaviors, etc.  (See also, teabagging, griefing, lolzing, etc, plus having no idea who you are playing with.)

3)  Intrusion of MP into SP, such as MP balance issues affecting SP build (See also, constant diaper-wetting and bawling for nerfs to other classes by PvP players in WoW causing constant headaches for PvE players.)

4)  Content being used for MP instead of SP portion of the game

5)  Greater chance of Origin being required because of online MP.

6)  Greater chance of anti-Modding "features" being coded in because of MP.

7)  The general movement of computer gaming from a solitary, relaxing activity to a frustrating, pointless activity involving strangers over an anonymous medium, because of the perceived financial incentives on the part of publishers. 

8)  Etc. 

1.Bioware has the resources of EA at their back. They are not going to run out of be at need.Throwing more money at a team does not make the game better if the team is working at max.

2.It's co-op. It not competitive. It's commutative. Your working together with people and playing against. Only vs games have that.

3.No it will not effect the balance of the sp. It's an alternate to resource gathering in the sp. In ME3, you have to get resource to build your army and to do that you have to fight of resources in sub missions. The mp is just that but as a co-op. It's only one portion of getting ready for the war. They are other factor to consider.

4.Now you sounding like a parrot. This was the first response. The answer is that if they need content. he sp team would just add more people, Which nothing's stopping them from doing.

5.So........What's the problem in that? It's not a payed services.You don't get upset the you have to use steam to play valves mp games?

6.So what? Normally Modding a mp game is just cheating.(Unless you want to add more character skins.) Isn't the sp you want to mode?

7........You clearly need to look at games again....They have always been mp games.And to add mp to be able to get more money is not a bad thing. A company need to make money. What would be worse is if bioware is charging extra for the mode ether add more money to the cost of the games or dlc.

8.I take it your going to pull more pointless reasons out of your hat?

We've been over all of this several times on this thread, some of these concerns have been mitigated or addressed at present... I only reposted that list because you seem to be opperating under the goofy and incorrect notion that this is somehow just about a resistance to change. 

1.  You're missing the point.  It's not about how much money EA has, it's about where they're spending it.  I've never claimed that resources were definately taken away from SP to work on MP, only that any resources spent on MP could have been spent on SP -- I've elaborated on this quite a bit with others who objected to the basic statement, if you read my other posts on the subject, you'll get the idea of where I'm going with that, instead of thinking you need to freshly refute some point that I'm not actually making. 

2.  ALL online multiplayer has those behaviors.  I know, it's in games I've tried out.  I've tried out MP, and those are the kinds of things that too many players do; deathmatch, team competetive, co-op, whatever, it doesn't matter.  Maybe you haven't seen it, and if so you're luckier than I, but it's there, it happens, and no amount of saying it doesn't will make it go away. 

3.  Not the balance I'm talking about.  I'm refering to the balance between the various "classes".  MP brings a whole new level of player whining and moaning about how each class balances against another, how one power balances against another, etc.  I thought I made that quite clear in my post. 

4.  If the content is in MP, it's not in SP.  It's not about content needed or content amount, it's simply about content being available only to those who like to play or are willing to put up with MP.  (this has been mitigated somewhat by the possibility that the MP content will possibly be accessible in solo play, although it still risks the nonsense of having to log in to the server to play the game alone.) 

5.  I don't play any game that requires Steam for any portion or function of the game, from updates to online to MP to installation to whatever.   I'll forego playing a game that looks very interesting, rather than have anything to do with Steam. 

6.  The anti-modding features put in place for the sake of MP will likely make ANY mods much more difficult, even if the player wants nothing to do with MP. 

7.  The long-term existence of multi-player gaming doesn't preclude the actual change in the focus, in the types of games and the style of gaming being catered to.  EA has made no secret about wanting to capture the multiplayer shooter market with games originating with Bioware's IP. 



EDIT:  typo

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 14 octobre 2011 - 05:07 .

[Taciter]

Hey Kiljoy,

You know I'm not a fan of Social Interaction in traditionally single player games but I think we have to accept that MP is coming to ME3 whether we like it or not...

BUT...

It doesn't have to be all bad. I see a window of opportunity here that could benefit us all, multiplayer and solo player alike.

Thanks to the postponement of ME3's release on account of Bioware/EA's commitment to the development of the MP addition, we can safely assume that Bioware's main development house is keeping itself busy by filling in the downtime with extra bug testing, polishing and tweaking. Something that ME2 could certainly have benefitted from.

It also means we have several months left to try and convince Bioware of the necessity for an AI squad implentation to augment the forthcoming MP release. If done properly, the AI controlled squad members should be practically indistinguishable from the Shepard's SP counterparts - in effect, we solo players would get a whole bunch of new and interesting single player missions to complement the main storyline - you could think of it as a free DLC.

If such a compromise WAS implemented, multiplayers would have their much lauded co-op facility and we would have our SP missions... surely that's a reasonable suggestion?

As for your other concerns, I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about how EA distributed its development subsidies. My guess is that EA demanded that MP be integrated into Mass Effect 3, Bioware may even have expressed some reluctance on the basis that the announcement wouldn;t be overwhelmingly popular so EA threw in a healthy incentive to act as sweetener - either way, I strongly suspect we'll still get the single player finale that we've so long anticipated.

I can't answer for the MP incomers. I doubt that the sort of epeens who subscribe so enthusiastically to CoD would find much appeal in a hybrid 3rd person RPG shooter. And if the AI squad member option WAS incorporated, you would never have to encounter them anyway.

As I understand it, and don't quote me, the MP 'addition' having been developed in an entirely different house will likely utilise its own, all be practically identical, game mechanics. The liklihood of MP balancing issues carrying over to SP are fairly remote. For one thing, the community wouldn't tolerate it and Bioware could do without the extra hassle.

If I share one concern, it's the issue of Origin. I rarely give credence to third party reports but given the consistency of such universal condemnation, it hard not to feel some sense of anxiety. However, while not as yet confirmed, the general concensus seems to be that ME3 will not impose the Origin client on us. Doing so would be foolhardy commercial decision in light of ME3's projected sales.

As for modding, I have great faith in modders.. they always seem to find a way. Their resourcefulness does them credit and I very much doubt that the modding community will capitulate in the face of certain limitations.. if anything, it would only strengthen their resolve - you know what they're like... Roll on Gibbed 2.0!

I share your misgivings regarding the general shift towards 'social' gaming and you'll find no argument here but just because we're in a minority doesn't mean we won;t be catered for. We still constitute a significant minority and where there's a demand, there will always be a market so keep your eyes peeled for the next promising SP RPG... =D

Modifié par Taciter, 14 octobre 2011 - 05:05 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

In other words, you just feel like trashing people because it's easier to paint them in a bad light, and thus their arguments by association, than it is to actually have a coherent argument of your own. 

No. Just people like you that refuse to take anyone's points into consideration and just toss out "I'm right and you're wrong" conjectures repeatedly with no basis in the physical reality that we occupy. You build straw man arguements that have nothing to do with what was said, and you take things completely out of context. Your sig claiming Origin is spyware is proof to that fact as well. Seeing as Steam has the same clause, has been around for years, and I don't see you saying it's spyware too. If you can have an intelligent, two-way, discussion then go right ahead. You, sir, cannot. You don't shut up until you've been ignored because it's completely impossible you could ever be wrong about something. So yes, your arguements are invalid by association with your fingers.

Your claim that Origin isn't spyware is proof enough that you're not paying attention to what's actually going on.  BTW, I refuse to install Steam on my PC or buy any game that requires Steam -- it's just that we're not on a Steam-related forum, and Origin goes a step farther in capabity to spy. 

As for the rest of your post, it just shows that you're not paying attention to who is posting what in these discussions. 

1.You don't download any thing to have origin.
2. Valve has the same power as steam
3.Origin only checksup on your mp gamesto make sure your not cheating.

1.  So if you don't install Origin, how do you have Origin installed on your computer? 
2.  Um... what?  Not that I'll ever touch a game that involves Steam in any way.
3.  LoL.

[Melchiah109]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Your claim that Origin isn't spyware is proof enough that you're not paying attention to what's actually going on.  BTW, I refuse to install Steam on my PC or buy any game that requires Steam -- it's just that we're not on a Steam-related forum, and Origin goes a step farther in capabity to spy. 

As for the rest of your post, it just shows that you're not paying attention to who is posting what in these discussions. 

And this just proved everything I just said. Thanks bud.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Melchiah109 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Your claim that Origin isn't spyware is proof enough that you're not paying attention to what's actually going on.  BTW, I refuse to install Steam on my PC or buy any game that requires Steam -- it's just that we're not on a Steam-related forum, and Origin goes a step farther in capabity to spy. 

As for the rest of your post, it just shows that you're not paying attention to who is posting what in these discussions. 

And this just proved everything I just said. Thanks bud.

LoL @ "I know you are but what am I?" comeback. 

Whatever, chief.  You're confusing me with someone else.  Still comes down to you attacking the person instead of the argument. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 14 octobre 2011 - 05:11 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Taciter wrote...

Hey Kiljoy,

You know I'm not a fan of Social Interaction in traditionally single player games but I think we have to accept that MP is coming to ME3 whether we like it or not...

BUT...

It doesn't have to be all bad. I see a window of opportunity here that could benefit us all, multiplayer and solo player alike.

Thanks to the postponement of ME3's release on account of Bioware/EA's commitment to the development of the MP addition, we can safely assume that Bioware's main development house is keeping itself busy by filling in the downtime with extra bug testing, polishing and tweaking. Something that ME2 could certainly have benefitted from.

It also means we have several months left to try and convince Bioware of the necessity for an AI squad implentation to augment the forthcoming MP release. If done properly, the AI controlled squad members should be practically indistinguishable from the Shepard's SP counterparts - in effect, we solo players would get a whole bunch of new and interesting single player missions to complement the main storyline - you could think of it as a free DLC.

If such a compromise WAS implemented, multiplayers would have their much lauded co-op facility and we would have our SP missions... surely that's a reasonable suggestion?

As for your other concerns, I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about how EA distributed its development subsidies. My guess is that EA demanded that MP be integrated into Mass Effect 3, Bioware may even have expressed some reluctance on the basis that the announcement wouldn;t be overwhelmingly popular so EA threw in a healthy incentive to act as sweetener - either way, I strongly suspect we'll still get the single player finale that we've so long anticipated.

I can't answer for the MP incomers. I doubt that the sort of epeens who subscribe so enthusiastically to CoD would find much appeal in a hybrid 3rd person RPG shooter. And if the AI squad member option WAS incorporated, you would never have to encounter them anyway.

As I understand it, and don't quote me, the MP 'addition' having been developed in an entirely different house will likely utilise its own, all be practically identical, game mechanics. The liklihood of MP balancing issues carrying over to SP are fairly remote. For one thing, the community wouldn't tolerate it and Bioware could do without the extra hassle.

If I share one concern, it's the issue of Origin. I rarely give credence to third party reports but given the consistency of such universal condemnation, it hard not to feel some sense of anxiety. However, while not as yet confirmed, the general concensus seems to be that ME3 will not impose the Origin client on us. Doing so would be foolhardy commercial decision in light of ME3's projected sales.

As for modding, I have great faith in modders.. they always seem to find a way. Their resourcefulness does them credit and I very much doubt that the modding community will capitulate in the face of certain limitations.. if anything, it would only strengthen their resolve - you know what they're like... Roll on Gibbed 2.0!

I share your misgivings regarding the general shift towards 'social' gaming and you'll find no argument here but just because we're in a minority doesn't mean we won;t be catered for. We still constitute a significant minority and where there's a demand, there will always be a market so keep your eyes peeled for the next promising SP RPG... =D

I wish I could have your optimism about the entire endeavor, but such is not my nature, nor what the world has shown me. 

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter .....
Why am I not surprised you are against mp? It like your allergic to change and use any excuse to hate anything.

I've been over why I'm concerned by the inclusion of MP in ME3 several times.  Some of the issues which have been discussed already:   

1)  Resources which COULD have been used for SP.  (Not would, could.  Please see previous go-arounds on the subject). 

2)  Influx of typical online MP players, with their attitudes, behaviors, etc.  (See also, teabagging, griefing, lolzing, etc, plus having no idea who you are playing with.)

3)  Intrusion of MP into SP, such as MP balance issues affecting SP build (See also, constant diaper-wetting and bawling for nerfs to other classes by PvP players in WoW causing constant headaches for PvE players.)

4)  Content being used for MP instead of SP portion of the game

5)  Greater chance of Origin being required because of online MP.

6)  Greater chance of anti-Modding "features" being coded in because of MP.

7)  The general movement of computer gaming from a solitary, relaxing activity to a frustrating, pointless activity involving strangers over an anonymous medium, because of the perceived financial incentives on the part of publishers. 

8)  Etc. 

1.Bioware has the resources of EA at their back. They are not going to run out of be at need.Throwing more money at a team does not make the game better if the team is working at max.

2.It's co-op. It not competitive. It's commutative. Your working together with people and playing against. Only vs games have that.

3.No it will not effect the balance of the sp. It's an alternate to resource gathering in the sp. In ME3, you have to get resource to build your army and to do that you have to fight of resources in sub missions. The mp is just that but as a co-op. It's only one portion of getting ready for the war. They are other factor to consider.

4.Now you sounding like a parrot. This was the first response. The answer is that if they need content. he sp team would just add more people, Which nothing's stopping them from doing.

5.So........What's the problem in that? It's not a payed services.You don't get upset the you have to use steam to play valves mp games?

6.So what? Normally Modding a mp game is just cheating.(Unless you want to add more character skins.) Isn't the sp you want to mode?

7........You clearly need to look at games again....They have always been mp games.And to add mp to be able to get more money is not a bad thing. A company need to make money. What would be worse is if bioware is charging extra for the mode ether add more money to the cost of the games or dlc.

8.I take it your going to pull more pointless reasons out of your hat?

We've been over all of this several times on this thread, some of these concerns have been mitigated or addressed at present... I only reposted that list because you seem to be opperating under the goofy and incorrect notion that this is somehow just about a resistance to change. 

1.  You're missing the point.  It's not about how much money EA has, it's about where they're spending it.  I've never claimed that resources were definately taken away from SP to work on MP, only that any resources spent on MP could have been spent on SP -- I've elaborated on this quite a bit with others who objected to the basic statement, if you read my other posts on the subject, you'll get the idea of where I'm going with that, instead of thinking you need to freshly refute some point that I'm not actually making. 

2.  ALL online multiplayer has those behaviors.  I know, it's in games I've tried out.  I've tried out MP, and those are the kinds of things that too many players do; deathmatch, team competetive, co-op, whatever, it doesn't matter.  Maybe you haven't seen it, and if so you're luckier than I, but it's there, it happens, and no amount of saying it doesn't will make it go away. 

3.  Not the balance I'm talking about.  I'm refering to the balance between the various "classes".  MP brings a whole new level of player whining and moaning about how each class balances against another, how one power balances against another, etc.  I thought I made that quite clear in my post. 

4.  If the content is in MP, it's not in SP.  It's not about content needed or content amount, it's simply about content being available only to those who like to play or are willing to put up with MP.  (this has been mitigated somewhat by the possibility that the MP content will possibly be accessible in solo play, although it still risks the nonsense of having to log in to the server to play the game alone.) 

5.  I don't play any game that requires Steam for any portion or function of the game, from updates to online to MP to installation to whatever.   I'll forego playing a game that looks very interesting, rather than have anything to do with Steam. 

6.  The anti-modding features put in place for the sake of MP will likely make ANY mods much more difficult, even if the player wants nothing to do with MP. 

7.  The long-term existence of multi-player gaming doesn't preclude the actual change in the focus, in the types of games and the style of gaming being catered to.  EA has made no secret about wanting to capture the multiplayer shooter market with games originating with Bioware's IP. 



EDIT:  typo

1.Then you not not getting it ether. How it's spent has nothing to do with it. Why? Because it's up to the team making the game how it's spent. They are the one that manage the resources they get.  You just bring up management issues, with Bioware does not have.

2. But some has it more then others and they are ways to avoid having that out come. Playing with friends, finding people to group up with people on bsn. Leaving the match if the person becomes too bother some. Just because some can be rude, does not mean they can't have MP.

3. You can just not play it. And it does not factor in the other needs to have the best outcome. Playing the mp is not going to override your choice to kill the rachni.

4.Again, different teams. This would be a problem if it was one team. But it's two with nothing taken away from the sp team.

5.All games from steam require some steam support at some point. And at that I feel your very paranoid.

6.It's not going to stop it's from happening

7. And it's no secret that Bioware want to make MP games. The fact that they want is not a factor? It's not like bw never made mp games before. The only problem is it they made you pay to play online.Trying to get more people to buy your product is standard for business.

[Melchiah109]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...


LoL @ "I know you are but what am I?" comeback. 

Whatever, chief.  You're confusing me with someone else.  Still comes down to you attacking the person instead of the argument. 

Oh right, it was someone else named Killjoy Cutter that keeps spamming the same "points" over and over like a broken record. It was someone else named Killjoy Cutter that took it upon himself to represent the people I called out in the original post that you replied to. I see it very clearly now. You should find that doppelganger before he starts making other people think he's you.

There also needs to be an arguement aside from "I'm right because I reject your reality and substitute my own" before anyone can argue. Feel free to pull something out that to build another straw man since you're so good at that. OH WAIT! That's the OTHER Killjoy Cutter. My bad.

[Taciter]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
I wish I could have your optimism about the entire endeavor, but such is not my nature, nor what the world has shown me. 

Lol Kiljoy, I'm just as cynical as you.. perhaps more so but I do recognise the futility of fighting a battle without logistical support.

We won't gain anything by expressing our resentment towards things we can't change. Instead, an articulate man like you should be fighting for what CAN be achieved. You sound like man who's played enough games in his time to recognise the possibility of a compromise.

Try putting forward some suggestions that you would be happy with, I'll bet you get more support than you think!

p.s. don't allow other people to provoke you!

Modifié par Taciter, 14 octobre 2011 - 05:29 .

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

In other words, you just feel like trashing people because it's easier to paint them in a bad light, and thus their arguments by association, than it is to actually have a coherent argument of your own. 

No. Just people like you that refuse to take anyone's points into consideration and just toss out "I'm right and you're wrong" conjectures repeatedly with no basis in the physical reality that we occupy. You build straw man arguements that have nothing to do with what was said, and you take things completely out of context. Your sig claiming Origin is spyware is proof to that fact as well. Seeing as Steam has the same clause, has been around for years, and I don't see you saying it's spyware too. If you can have an intelligent, two-way, discussion then go right ahead. You, sir, cannot. You don't shut up until you've been ignored because it's completely impossible you could ever be wrong about something. So yes, your arguements are invalid by association with your fingers.

Your claim that Origin isn't spyware is proof enough that you're not paying attention to what's actually going on.  BTW, I refuse to install Steam on my PC or buy any game that requires Steam -- it's just that we're not on a Steam-related forum, and Origin goes a step farther in capabity to spy. 

As for the rest of your post, it just shows that you're not paying attention to who is posting what in these discussions. 

1.You don't download any thing to have origin.
2. Valve has the same power as steam
3.Origin only checksup on your mp gamesto make sure your not cheating.

1.  So if you don't install Origin, how do you have Origin installed on your computer? 
2.  Um... what?  Not that I'll ever touch a game that involves Steam in any way.
3.  LoL.

1. It's not in your computer. It just linked to the game your playing. Like  how dragon age links to the ea servers and ME2 with the cerberus news network.
2. Valve can look into any game you are playing. They a can also lock any game your playing,too. Even if you bought it.
3. So you don't think that's an issue with mp games.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter .....
Why am I not surprised you are against mp? It like your allergic to change and use any excuse to hate anything.

I've been over why I'm concerned by the inclusion of MP in ME3 several times.  Some of the issues which have been discussed already:   

1)  Resources which COULD have been used for SP.  (Not would, could.  Please see previous go-arounds on the subject). 

2)  Influx of typical online MP players, with their attitudes, behaviors, etc.  (See also, teabagging, griefing, lolzing, etc, plus having no idea who you are playing with.)

3)  Intrusion of MP into SP, such as MP balance issues affecting SP build (See also, constant diaper-wetting and bawling for nerfs to other classes by PvP players in WoW causing constant headaches for PvE players.)

4)  Content being used for MP instead of SP portion of the game

5)  Greater chance of Origin being required because of online MP.

6)  Greater chance of anti-Modding "features" being coded in because of MP.

7)  The general movement of computer gaming from a solitary, relaxing activity to a frustrating, pointless activity involving strangers over an anonymous medium, because of the perceived financial incentives on the part of publishers. 

8)  Etc. 

1.Bioware has the resources of EA at their back. They are not going to run out of be at need.Throwing more money at a team does not make the game better if the team is working at max.

2.It's co-op. It not competitive. It's commutative. Your working together with people and playing against. Only vs games have that.

3.No it will not effect the balance of the sp. It's an alternate to resource gathering in the sp. In ME3, you have to get resource to build your army and to do that you have to fight of resources in sub missions. The mp is just that but as a co-op. It's only one portion of getting ready for the war. They are other factor to consider.

4.Now you sounding like a parrot. This was the first response. The answer is that if they need content. he sp team would just add more people, Which nothing's stopping them from doing.

5.So........What's the problem in that? It's not a payed services.You don't get upset the you have to use steam to play valves mp games?

6.So what? Normally Modding a mp game is just cheating.(Unless you want to add more character skins.) Isn't the sp you want to mode?

7........You clearly need to look at games again....They have always been mp games.And to add mp to be able to get more money is not a bad thing. A company need to make money. What would be worse is if bioware is charging extra for the mode ether add more money to the cost of the games or dlc.

8.I take it your going to pull more pointless reasons out of your hat?

We've been over all of this several times on this thread, some of these concerns have been mitigated or addressed at present... I only reposted that list because you seem to be opperating under the goofy and incorrect notion that this is somehow just about a resistance to change. 

1.  You're missing the point.  It's not about how much money EA has, it's about where they're spending it.  I've never claimed that resources were definately taken away from SP to work on MP, only that any resources spent on MP could have been spent on SP -- I've elaborated on this quite a bit with others who objected to the basic statement, if you read my other posts on the subject, you'll get the idea of where I'm going with that, instead of thinking you need to freshly refute some point that I'm not actually making. 

2.  ALL online multiplayer has those behaviors.  I know, it's in games I've tried out.  I've tried out MP, and those are the kinds of things that too many players do; deathmatch, team competetive, co-op, whatever, it doesn't matter.  Maybe you haven't seen it, and if so you're luckier than I, but it's there, it happens, and no amount of saying it doesn't will make it go away. 

3.  Not the balance I'm talking about.  I'm refering to the balance between the various "classes".  MP brings a whole new level of player whining and moaning about how each class balances against another, how one power balances against another, etc.  I thought I made that quite clear in my post. 

4.  If the content is in MP, it's not in SP.  It's not about content needed or content amount, it's simply about content being available only to those who like to play or are willing to put up with MP.  (this has been mitigated somewhat by the possibility that the MP content will possibly be accessible in solo play, although it still risks the nonsense of having to log in to the server to play the game alone.) 

5.  I don't play any game that requires Steam for any portion or function of the game, from updates to online to MP to installation to whatever.   I'll forego playing a game that looks very interesting, rather than have anything to do with Steam. 

6.  The anti-modding features put in place for the sake of MP will likely make ANY mods much more difficult, even if the player wants nothing to do with MP. 

7.  The long-term existence of multi-player gaming doesn't preclude the actual change in the focus, in the types of games and the style of gaming being catered to.  EA has made no secret about wanting to capture the multiplayer shooter market with games originating with Bioware's IP. 



EDIT:  typo

1.Then you not not getting it ether. How it's spent has nothing to do with it. Why? Because it's up to the team making the game how it's spent. They are the one that manage the resources they get.  You just bring up management issues, with Bioware does not have.

2. But some has it more then others and they are ways to avoid having that out come. Playing with friends, finding people to group up with people on bsn. Leaving the match if the person becomes too bother some. Just because some can be rude, does not mean they can't have MP.

3. You can just not play it. And it does not factor in the other needs to have the best outcome. Playing the mp is not going to override your choice to kill the rachni.

4.Again, different teams. This would be a problem if it was one team. But it's two with nothing taken away from the sp team.

5.All games from steam require some steam support at some point. And at that I feel your very paranoid.

6.It's not going to stop it's from happening

7. And it's no secret that Bioware want to make MP games. The fact that they want is not a factor? It's not like bw never made mp games before. The only problem is it they made you pay to play online.Trying to get more people to buy your product is standard for business.

1) The resources spent are the resources spent, who makes the decision is entirely irrelevent. 

2) I don't know anyone else who plays bioware games, and frankly needed to schedule my gaming time is part of the MP thing that I want to avoid entirely. 

3) No one is claiming that MP is going to "override your choice to kill the rachni".  Your response has nothing to do with my actual concern.  Go back and re-read it, if you want.  I'm getting enough flak as it is for repeated attempts to make people understand my actual point instead of whatever they think I'm saying. 

4) Again, you're not actually addressing the actual point.  If The Mission to Planet X is in MP, then it's not in SP.  Simply as that.  No matter how much content you create, the MP content is not in the SP gameplay. 

5) That's why I don't have any Steam/Valve games.  Because you're forced to use Steam.  And Steam is a steaming pile of bloated crapware, never mind the privacy and security issues. 

6) I hope you're right, but I won't hold my breath (about modding still being possible).

7) I have no problem with Bioware wanting to make, or making, or selling, MP games.  I just have concerns about the introduction of MP into what has been a strictly SP series right as we get to the payoff. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

In other words, you just feel like trashing people because it's easier to paint them in a bad light, and thus their arguments by association, than it is to actually have a coherent argument of your own. 

No. Just people like you that refuse to take anyone's points into consideration and just toss out "I'm right and you're wrong" conjectures repeatedly with no basis in the physical reality that we occupy. You build straw man arguements that have nothing to do with what was said, and you take things completely out of context. Your sig claiming Origin is spyware is proof to that fact as well. Seeing as Steam has the same clause, has been around for years, and I don't see you saying it's spyware too. If you can have an intelligent, two-way, discussion then go right ahead. You, sir, cannot. You don't shut up until you've been ignored because it's completely impossible you could ever be wrong about something. So yes, your arguements are invalid by association with your fingers.

Your claim that Origin isn't spyware is proof enough that you're not paying attention to what's actually going on.  BTW, I refuse to install Steam on my PC or buy any game that requires Steam -- it's just that we're not on a Steam-related forum, and Origin goes a step farther in capabity to spy. 

As for the rest of your post, it just shows that you're not paying attention to who is posting what in these discussions. 

1.You don't download any thing to have origin.
2. Valve has the same power as steam
3.Origin only checksup on your mp gamesto make sure your not cheating.

1.  So if you don't install Origin, how do you have Origin installed on your computer? 
2.  Um... what?  Not that I'll ever touch a game that involves Steam in any way.
3.  LoL.

1. It's not in your computer. It just linked to the game your playing. Like  how dragon age links to the ea servers and ME2 with the cerberus news network.
2. Valve can look into any game you are playing. They a can also lock any game your playing,too. Even if you bought it.
3. So you don't think that's an issue with mp games.

1.  An Origin account is not the same as the Origin software. 
2.  That's part why I don't have Valve games or Steam.
3.  No, I'm laughing at the claim that "cheat prevention" is all that Origin is capable of doing. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

Melchiah109 wrote...
There also needs to be an arguement aside from "I'm right because I reject your reality and substitute my own" before anyone can argue. Feel free to pull something out that to build another straw man since you're so good at that.

That you think that's all there is to my positions or arguments is where you're mistaken. 

If I bring up the same point multiple times, it's because it has been ignored by the person I'm responding to, or because the responses to it don't address the actual point, but instead are directed  some other point that the responder thinks or wishes I had made. 

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...



1) The resources spent are the resources spent, who makes the decision is entirely irrelevent. 

2) I don't know anyone else who plays bioware games, and frankly needed to schedule my gaming time is part of the MP thing that I want to avoid entirely. 

3) No one is claiming that MP is going to "override your choice to kill the rachni".  Your response has nothing to do with my actual concern.  Go back and re-read it, if you want.  I'm getting enough flak as it is for repeated attempts to make people understand my actual point instead of whatever they think I'm saying. 

4) Again, you're not actually addressing the actual point.  If The Mission to Planet X is in MP, then it's not in SP.  Simply as that.  No matter how much content you create, the MP content is not in the SP gameplay. 

5) That's why I don't have any Steam/Valve games.  Because you're forced to use Steam.  And Steam is a steaming pile of bloated crapware, never mind the privacy and security issues. 

6) I hope you're right, but I won't hold my breath (about modding still being possible).

7) I have no problem with Bioware wanting to make, or making, or selling, MP games.  I just have concerns about the introduction of MP into what has been a strictly SP series right as we get to the payoff. 

1. Who make  the desision on how money in a project is spent is very relevent. Why? Because bad management of resource and finances make a progect fall apart.  With great management, planning, organisation, and conspet, get works can be made.
When ever you talk about money, people need to make the product, time and organisation..You are taking about management.

2.So you can just make a topic on bsn asking people to join up in a match?

3.That's the issue with balance. Ifyour complaining about balance to the final out come, then you complaining that you choice won't be as big of a fact. The thing is even with the mp, yourchoices in the sp is still a factor.

4.But that only an issue if they had to split the main team to make the mp team. If the main team need help, they can add more people. Also, that's a time issuse.....And they still have plenty of tiem left.

5.Sure, a game system that provide community and fairness with is players is bad.

6.Many people felt ME2 was not modable at first....Then wa got this...

7. It really doesn't matter when they add mp. All that matter is if the sp is uneffected.

Modifié par dreman9999, 14 octobre 2011 - 05:51 .

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

In other words, you just feel like trashing people because it's easier to paint them in a bad light, and thus their arguments by association, than it is to actually have a coherent argument of your own. 

No. Just people like you that refuse to take anyone's points into consideration and just toss out "I'm right and you're wrong" conjectures repeatedly with no basis in the physical reality that we occupy. You build straw man arguements that have nothing to do with what was said, and you take things completely out of context. Your sig claiming Origin is spyware is proof to that fact as well. Seeing as Steam has the same clause, has been around for years, and I don't see you saying it's spyware too. If you can have an intelligent, two-way, discussion then go right ahead. You, sir, cannot. You don't shut up until you've been ignored because it's completely impossible you could ever be wrong about something. So yes, your arguements are invalid by association with your fingers.

Your claim that Origin isn't spyware is proof enough that you're not paying attention to what's actually going on.  BTW, I refuse to install Steam on my PC or buy any game that requires Steam -- it's just that we're not on a Steam-related forum, and Origin goes a step farther in capabity to spy. 

As for the rest of your post, it just shows that you're not paying attention to who is posting what in these discussions. 

1.You don't download any thing to have origin.
2. Valve has the same power as steam
3.Origin only checksup on your mp gamesto make sure your not cheating.

1.  So if you don't install Origin, how do you have Origin installed on your computer? 
2.  Um... what?  Not that I'll ever touch a game that involves Steam in any way.
3.  LoL.

1. It's not in your computer. It just linked to the game your playing. Like  how dragon age links to the ea servers and ME2 with the cerberus news network.
2. Valve can look into any game you are playing. They a can also lock any game your playing,too. Even if you bought it.
3. So you don't think that's an issue with mp games.

1.  An Origin account is not the same as the Origin software. 
2.  That's part why I don't have Valve games or Steam.
3.  No, I'm laughing at the claim that "cheat prevention" is all that Origin is capable of doing. 

1. Then their is no problem then. They just track your game.

3.It their to stop  pireting, too. But the point is that for most people, origin would not be a problem for them.

[Merci357]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

5) That's why I don't have any Steam/Valve games.  Because you're forced to use Steam.  And Steam is a steaming pile of bloated crapware, never mind the privacy and security issues. 

You should consider playing on consoles. Since games like Fallout: New Vegas or Deus Ex: Human Revolution are, and Skyrim will be, a Steamworks game. (And plenty of other recent amd upcoming games). Since EA will enforce Origin, no way around that, see BF3, ME3. Honestly, I do understand your principles, while I don't share your concern, but your selection of games (at least legaly) is getting slim.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

1) The resources spent are the resources spent, who makes the decision is entirely irrelevent. 

2) I don't know anyone else who plays bioware games, and frankly needed to schedule my gaming time is part of the MP thing that I want to avoid entirely. 

3) No one is claiming that MP is going to "override your choice to kill the rachni".  Your response has nothing to do with my actual concern.  Go back and re-read it, if you want.  I'm getting enough flak as it is for repeated attempts to make people understand my actual point instead of whatever they think I'm saying. 

4) Again, you're not actually addressing the actual point.  If The Mission to Planet X is in MP, then it's not in SP.  Simply as that.  No matter how much content you create, the MP content is not in the SP gameplay. 

5) That's why I don't have any Steam/Valve games.  Because you're forced to use Steam.  And Steam is a steaming pile of bloated crapware, never mind the privacy and security issues. 

6) I hope you're right, but I won't hold my breath (about modding still being possible).

7) I have no problem with Bioware wanting to make, or making, or selling, MP games.  I just have concerns about the introduction of MP into what has been a strictly SP series right as we get to the payoff. 

1. Who make  the desision on how money in a project is spent is very relevent. Why? Because bad management of resource and finances make a progect fall apart.  With great management, planning, organisation, and conspet, get works can be made.
When ever you talk about money, people need to make the product, time and organisation..You are taking about management.

2.So you can just make a topic on bsn asking people to join up in a match?

3.That's the issue with balance. Ifyour complaining about balance to the final out come, then you complaining that you choice won't be as big of a fact. The thing is even with the mp, yourchoices in the sp is still a factor.

4.But that only an issue if they had to split the main team to make the mp team. If the main team need help, they can add more people. Also, that's a time issuse.....And they still have plenty of tiem left.

5.Sure, a game system that provide community and fairness with is players is bad.

6.Many people felt ME2 was not modable at first....Then wa got this...

7. It really doesn't matter when they add mp. All that matter is if the sp is uneffected.

1.  Who made the decisions is irrelvent to whether the resources could have been dedicated to SP instead MP.  I'm not saying they definately would have been spent on SP instead if they had not been spent on MP, just sticking a needle in the baloon of those who make the assertion that they simply, certainly would not have been.

2. No.

3. No.  My concern is that the specific issues of MP players regarding issues like class vs class balance will come to affect the SP game in negative ways.  This would not be the first game in which that has happened, I've watched it happen in every online MP game I've tried.  Please respond to my actual point. 

4. Again, you're not responding to my actual concern.  You can have two entirely seperate teams, with two entirely seperate budgets, and it won't matter one whit to my point.  Again, if Mission to Planet X is MP content, then it's not SP content.  How is that not clear? 

5. A game system that requires extra software to be running for the game to function, that constantly snoops around on the user's computer, and generally treats the user as a suspected thief and "cheat" unless they routinely prove otherwise, is increadibly bad.

6.  ME2 doesn't have the some of the anti-modding features that MP games often have.  And there's no risk of having my account locked or my ME2 install frozen because I modded the ammo capacity of the Carnifex to see how it changed gameplay. 

7.  IMO, it does matter when and to what game and in what manner they add it, as with any significant change to a game franchise. 

And while I'm less concerned now than I was at the start, as people have made good points about the MP setup and more information has been revealed by Bioware, I'm not yet entirely convinced that MP is going to be entirely benign towards SP gameplay. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

Merci357 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

5) That's why I don't have any Steam/Valve games.  Because you're forced to use Steam.  And Steam is a steaming pile of bloated crapware, never mind the privacy and security issues. 

You should consider playing on consoles. Since games like Fallout: New Vegas or Deus Ex: Human Revolution are, and Skyrim will be, a Steamworks game. (And plenty of other recent amd upcoming games). Since EA will enforce Origin, no way around that, see BF3, ME3. Honestly, I do understand your principles, while I don't share your concern, but your selection of games (at least legaly) is getting slim.

I don't have to play games on the computer.  I can move on from the hobby if it changes into something I don't like. 

[Taciter]

As I understand it, the big difference between Steam and Origin is that Steam will only 'snoop' through your steam games portfolio and even then that is part of an entirely 'voluntary' one-off system report designed to aid Valve in ascertaining the state of hardware proliferation.

Origin on the other hand, I've heard tell of questionable (though now updated and marginally less questionable) EULA disclaimers demanding the right to not only glean personal information from your system but also to provide third-parties with said information.

I don't know the specifics but certainly, Origin is a dirty word at the moment.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

1) The resources spent are the resources spent, who makes the decision is entirely irrelevent. 

2) I don't know anyone else who plays bioware games, and frankly needed to schedule my gaming time is part of the MP thing that I want to avoid entirely. 

3) No one is claiming that MP is going to "override your choice to kill the rachni".  Your response has nothing to do with my actual concern.  Go back and re-read it, if you want.  I'm getting enough flak as it is for repeated attempts to make people understand my actual point instead of whatever they think I'm saying. 

4) Again, you're not actually addressing the actual point.  If The Mission to Planet X is in MP, then it's not in SP.  Simply as that.  No matter how much content you create, the MP content is not in the SP gameplay. 

5) That's why I don't have any Steam/Valve games.  Because you're forced to use Steam.  And Steam is a steaming pile of bloated crapware, never mind the privacy and security issues. 

6) I hope you're right, but I won't hold my breath (about modding still being possible).

7) I have no problem with Bioware wanting to make, or making, or selling, MP games.  I just have concerns about the introduction of MP into what has been a strictly SP series right as we get to the payoff. 

1. Who make  the desision on how money in a project is spent is very relevent. Why? Because bad management of resource and finances make a progect fall apart.  With great management, planning, organisation, and conspet, get works can be made.
When ever you talk about money, people need to make the product, time and organisation..You are taking about management.

2.So you can just make a topic on bsn asking people to join up in a match?

3.That's the issue with balance. Ifyour complaining about balance to the final out come, then you complaining that you choice won't be as big of a fact. The thing is even with the mp, yourchoices in the sp is still a factor.

4.But that only an issue if they had to split the main team to make the mp team. If the main team need help, they can add more people. Also, that's a time issuse.....And they still have plenty of tiem left.

5.Sure, a game system that provide community and fairness with is players is bad.

6.Many people felt ME2 was not modable at first....Then wa got this...

7. It really doesn't matter when they add mp. All that matter is if the sp is uneffected.

1.  Who made the decisions is irrelvent to whether the resources could have been dedicated to SP instead MP.  I'm not saying they definately would have been spent on SP instead if they had not been spent on MP, just sticking a needle in the baloon of those who make the assertion that they simply, certainly would not have been.

2. No.

3. No.  My concern is that the specific issues of MP players regarding issues like class vs class balance will come to affect the SP game in negative ways.  This would not be the first game in which that has happened, I've watched it happen in every online MP game I've tried.  Please respond to my actual point. 

4. Again, you're not responding to my actual concern.  You can have two entirely seperate teams, with two entirely seperate budgets, and it won't matter one whit to my point.  Again, if Mission to Planet X is MP content, then it's not SP content.  How is that not clear? 

5. A game system that requires extra software to be running for the game to function, that constantly snoops around on the user's computer, and generally treats the user as a suspected thief and "cheat" unless they routinely prove otherwise, is increadibly bad.

6.  ME2 doesn't have the some of the anti-modding features that MP games often have.  And there's no risk of having my account locked or my ME2 install frozen because I modded the ammo capacity of the Carnifex to see how it changed gameplay. 

7.  IMO, it does matter when and to what game and in what manner they add it, as with any significant change to a game franchise. 

And while I'm less concerned now than I was at the start, as people have made good points about the MP setup and more information has been revealed by Bioware, I'm not yet entirely convinced that MP is going to be entirely benign towards SP gameplay. 

1.Your statement is an oxymoron....The ones who make the decisions are the on whether the money goes to mp and sp are retentive because they control how the team is manage and plan the game in general. (AKA...the games lead designer).
2.Your clearly a  very social person...

3.What are you say that you think the way the mp plays in combat will effect how the combat plays in the sp......That a huge leap of logic their. We already seen the combat for ME3, and we have a huge list of specs for the powers and skills in ME3. It's clear sp and mp balance would be an issue because the the mp gameplay is separate from the sp.The mp is just a horde mode. You don't even play the same characters in the single player.

4.Yes, it matters. Why? Because the game focus would not be divided on one team. Game that have mp and sp have problems of quality because the dev team are dealing with two issues at once...SP and MP.  Most times only one out of the 2 are done well. This is not the case with ME3. The same team that did everything in ME2 FOR SP is still working on the sp in ME3 with their attention only focused on the sp. Anything that is not worked on is based on time issues only. Not lack of finances or people.

5.That constant awareness of this is an non-issue if your not doing anything wrong.

6.But if you do that in the mp...that would be an issue. We don't know if we can't do that in the sp yet.

7.Nothing is shown that mp is taking away from the sp. In fact, because of MP we gained more to the sp. This just adds more to the game and how you can play it. I doesn't even change the sp. How is it an issue.

Modifié par dreman9999, 14 octobre 2011 - 06:34 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

1) The resources spent are the resources spent, who makes the decision is entirely irrelevent. 

2) I don't know anyone else who plays bioware games, and frankly needed to schedule my gaming time is part of the MP thing that I want to avoid entirely. 

3) No one is claiming that MP is going to "override your choice to kill the rachni".  Your response has nothing to do with my actual concern.  Go back and re-read it, if you want.  I'm getting enough flak as it is for repeated attempts to make people understand my actual point instead of whatever they think I'm saying. 

4) Again, you're not actually addressing the actual point.  If The Mission to Planet X is in MP, then it's not in SP.  Simply as that.  No matter how much content you create, the MP content is not in the SP gameplay. 

5) That's why I don't have any Steam/Valve games.  Because you're forced to use Steam.  And Steam is a steaming pile of bloated crapware, never mind the privacy and security issues. 

6) I hope you're right, but I won't hold my breath (about modding still being possible).

7) I have no problem with Bioware wanting to make, or making, or selling, MP games.  I just have concerns about the introduction of MP into what has been a strictly SP series right as we get to the payoff. 

1. Who make  the desision on how money in a project is spent is very relevent. Why? Because bad management of resource and finances make a progect fall apart.  With great management, planning, organisation, and conspet, get works can be made.
When ever you talk about money, people need to make the product, time and organisation..You are taking about management.

2.So you can just make a topic on bsn asking people to join up in a match?

3.That's the issue with balance. Ifyour complaining about balance to the final out come, then you complaining that you choice won't be as big of a fact. The thing is even with the mp, yourchoices in the sp is still a factor.

4.But that only an issue if they had to split the main team to make the mp team. If the main team need help, they can add more people. Also, that's a time issuse.....And they still have plenty of tiem left.

5.Sure, a game system that provide community and fairness with is players is bad.

6.Many people felt ME2 was not modable at first....Then wa got this...

7. It really doesn't matter when they add mp. All that matter is if the sp is uneffected.

1.  Who made the decisions is irrelvent to whether the resources could have been dedicated to SP instead MP.  I'm not saying they definately would have been spent on SP instead if they had not been spent on MP, just sticking a needle in the baloon of those who make the assertion that they simply, certainly would not have been.

2. No.

3. No.  My concern is that the specific issues of MP players regarding issues like class vs class balance will come to affect the SP game in negative ways.  This would not be the first game in which that has happened, I've watched it happen in every online MP game I've tried.  Please respond to my actual point. 

4. Again, you're not responding to my actual concern.  You can have two entirely seperate teams, with two entirely seperate budgets, and it won't matter one whit to my point.  Again, if Mission to Planet X is MP content, then it's not SP content.  How is that not clear? 

5. A game system that requires extra software to be running for the game to function, that constantly snoops around on the user's computer, and generally treats the user as a suspected thief and "cheat" unless they routinely prove otherwise, is increadibly bad.

6.  ME2 doesn't have the some of the anti-modding features that MP games often have.  And there's no risk of having my account locked or my ME2 install frozen because I modded the ammo capacity of the Carnifex to see how it changed gameplay. 

7.  IMO, it does matter when and to what game and in what manner they add it, as with any significant change to a game franchise. 

And while I'm less concerned now than I was at the start, as people have made good points about the MP setup and more information has been revealed by Bioware, I'm not yet entirely convinced that MP is going to be entirely benign towards SP gameplay. 

1.Your statement is an oxymoron....The ones who make the decisions are the on whether the money goes to mp and sp are retentive because they control how the team is manage and plan the game in general. (AKA...the games lead designer).
2.Your clearly a  very social person...

3.What are you say that you think the way the mp plays in combat will effect how the combat plays in the sp......That a huge leap of logic their. We already seen the combat for ME3, and we have a huge list of specs for the powers and skills in ME3. It's clear sp and mp balance would be an issue because the the mp gameplay is separate from the sp.The mp is just a horde mode. You don't even play the same characters in the single player.

4.Yes, it matters. Why? Because the game focus would not be divided on one team. Game that have mp and sp have problems of quality because the dev team are dealing with two issues at once...SP and MP.  Most times only one out of the 2 are done well. This is not the case with ME3. The same team that did everything in ME2 FOR SP is still working on the sp in ME3 with their attention only focused on the sp. Anything that is not worked on is based on time issues only. Not lack of finances or people.

5.That constant awareness of this is an non-issue if your not doing anything wrong.

6.But if you do that in the mp...that would be an issue. We don't know if we can't do that in the sp yet.

7.Nothing is shown that mp is taking away from the sp. In fact, because of MP we gained more to the sp. This just adds more to the game and how you can play it. I doesn't even change the sp. How is it an issue.

1. Resources are resources.  You're getting caught up in the details and missing the basic point.  If it was spent on MP, then none of us are in a position to say that it could not and would not have been spent on SP instead.   

2. Not as such.   

3. Unless the classes and powers in MP are divorced from their "settings and values" in SP, there's always a risk of MP player complaints causing changes to SP.

4. If The Mission to Planet X is in MP, it's content that's not in SP.  So far, nothing you've said in any way addresses that point. 

5. "What are you afraid of if you have nothing to hide", in other words?  That only demonstrates that you fundamentally misundertand the importance and nature of the basic right to privacy. 

6. I don't plan on modding to "cheat" in MP, I plan on modding to increase the replay value of SP.  I want nothing to do with MP in any way. And yet the inclusion of MP in the SP game increases the odds of SP replayability via modding being compromised.  Thus, my concern about bundling the MP into the SP game, and how it can fundamentally change things when compared to the previous ME games.

7. Take away, add, change, affect, whatever.  If it leaks into SP in any way at all, it's too much IMO. 

[Iakus]

Taciter wrote...


It also means we have several months left to try and convince Bioware of the necessity for an AI squad implentation to augment the forthcoming MP release. If done properly, the AI controlled squad members should be practically indistinguishable from the Shepard's SP counterparts - in effect, we solo players would get a whole bunch of new and interesting single player missions to complement the main storyline - you could think of it as a free DLC.

If such a compromise WAS implemented, multiplayers would have their much lauded co-op facility and we would have our SP missions... surely that's a reasonable suggestion?

Such a suggestion is probably as good a compromise as we have a hope of getting.  I still wouldn't be happy, but it would be... acceptable.  

But given that Bioware waited so long before springing this on us, I have to wonder just how much is locked in and unchangeable at this point.

[Killjoy Cutter]

iakus wrote...

Taciter wrote...

It also means we have several months left to try and convince Bioware of the necessity for an AI squad implentation to augment the forthcoming MP release. If done properly, the AI controlled squad members should be practically indistinguishable from the Shepard's SP counterparts - in effect, we solo players would get a whole bunch of new and interesting single player missions to complement the main storyline - you could think of it as a free DLC.

If such a compromise WAS implemented, multiplayers would have their much lauded co-op facility and we would have our SP missions... surely that's a reasonable suggestion?

Such a suggestion is probably as good a compromise as we have a hope of getting.  I still wouldn't be happy, but it would be... acceptable.  

But given that Bioware waited so long before springing this on us, I have to wonder just how much is locked in and unchangeable at this point.

It wouldn't be perfect, but it would address some of my concerns sufficiently if implimented well.  If played with an AI squad, the content would need to be available offline and without the game pass. 

(Of course, one suspects that this is exactly why we WON'T see an AI squad version of the MP missions.)