2261 réponses à ce sujet

[Balek-Vriege]

This is a lot of cart before the horse arguments. It seems a lot of people against MP saying they will never buy another Bioware game again or a new Bioware game have already come to the conlusion that:

1. MP addition is crap and anything Bioware reveals about it is not true or "suspect," regardless of no contradictory information. That doesn't make a lot of sense to just ignore info in order to complain more.

2. MP being added has taken away loads of devleopment time from SP even though a whole other team called Bioware Montreal has done the brunt of the development on MP. At most I could see some level designers/programmers etc. working with the other team so they're both on the same page. If people are going to get on their high horses and declare Mass Effect 3 a compromised piece of trash, prove how many hours SP devs and money went to MP and what plans for SP were compromised because of it.

We don't even know how much budget ME3 has and whether or not EA uped it for MP features (which is likely because of the added team). That's something no one will know except the Devs and EA themselves. You would think people have already played ME3 with the reactions on here. Unfortunately for them they will probably never enjoy ME3 SP regardless of how good it is because of such strong feelings towards MP, Bioware and EA.

3. That no other RPG in history has had SP/MP, Co-Op etc. Not true.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:22 .

[dreman9999]

Vegos wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Vegos wrote...

It does not mean the people viewing the trilogy have to see it fromthe very begining to the end. Not every one saw Star war :new hope first.

Nobody has to play ME1 and 2 first either. But the people who never saw A New Hope were not the ones who Return of the Jedi was made for.

So what? That did not stop  alot of people from seeing RotJ first. 

Thank you for making my point.

So you understand that it's alright for a company to advertise the final product of a story to new people?

[JeffZero]

I feel the need to re-post this.

It's still required to be a natural extension of the bigger picture -- the point of being a marketable item. And the point of marketable items is to be sold. And to do better rather than worse over time.

Scripted television dramas lose viewers over time. Almost always. To avoid death by massive viewer bleed-off they're forced to attract new fans regularly, reinventing themselves sometimes and keeping things identifiable to people tuning in out of curiosity during the fourth season of a complex show.

It's a different situation with gaming but a similar enough concept to draw comparisons. Even trilogies need to do this. "We got most of the people who bought ME2 to buy ME3, yay!" isn't success, after all. Not even with good sales. Companies want more, not less or even the same.

[Vegos]

So you understand that it's alright for a company to advertise the final product of a story to new people?

Of course.

I just vehemently disagree as to HOW they're doing it - as I said multiple times, there's a time and place for everything, and this simply isn't it.

But OK, say MP is optional.

Tthink I could only pay for the SP part and only get the SP part? No? Damn.

See, I don't like paying for components I'm not going to be using.

Modifié par Vegos, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:24 .

[dreman9999]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

This is a lot of cart before the horse arguments. It seems a lot of people against MP saying they will never buy another Bioware game again or a new Bioware game have already come to the conlusion that:

1. MP addition is crap and anything Bioware reveals about it is not true or "suspect," regardless of no contradictory information. That doesn't make a lot of sense to just ignore info in order to complain more.

2. MP being added has taken away loads of devleopment time from SP even though a whole other team called Bioware Montreal has done the brunt of the development on MP. At most I could see some level designer/programmers etc. working with other team so they're both on the same page and style. If people are going to get on their high horses and declare Mass Effect 3 a compromised piece of trash, prove how many hours SP devs and money went to MP and what plans for SP were compromised because of it.

We don't even know how much budget ME3 has and whether or not EA uped it for MP features (which is likely because of the added team). That's something no one will know except the Devs and EA themselves. You would think people have already played ME3 with the reactions on here. Unfortunately for them they will probably never enjoy ME3 SP regardless of how good it is because of such strong feelings towards MP, Bioware and EA.

3. That no other RPG in history has had SP/MP, Co-Op etc. Not true.

It's like these people  put fingers in their ears and sing to themselve so they don't hear anything.

Modifié par dreman9999, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:22 .

[JeffZero]

Vegos wrote...

So you understand that it's alright for a company to advertise the final product of a story to new people?

Of course.

I just vehemently disagree as to HOW they're doing it.

Ah, nevermind. So you do understand then.

[dreman9999]

Vegos wrote...

So you understand that it's alright for a company to advertise the final product of a story to new people?

Of course.

I just vehemently disagree as to HOW they're doing it.

That is a huge contridiction. They tell people who never bought the past game that is a get place to start in the third game and you hate them for trying to sell the game to new people. Makes perfect sense.

Modifié par dreman9999, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:25 .

[Vegos]

That is a huge contridiction. They tell people who never bought thepast game that isa get place to start and you hate them for tryin gto sell the game to new people. Makes perfect sense.

I hate what now?

Sorry you'll have to elaborate on that.

There's one thing I dislike more than I dislike MP where I didn't ask for it, and that one thing is people putting words in my mouth.

[KBomb]

dreman9999 wrote...
It's like these people  put fingers in their ears and sing to themselve so they don't hear anything.

Oh, the irony. I don't know whether to implement this smilie  or this one

Modifié par KBomb, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:32 .

[Pro_Consul]

JeffZero wrote...

Vegos wrote...

Why are those two teams not working on two separate stand-alone games then, if both are getting the resources sufficient to develop a stand-alone game?

Montreal is not given the resources to make a full-fledged game. They are given the resources to make an expanded multiplayer co-op add-on.

If the SP story line is, as the FAQ says, a completely standalone game, then what is the MP thing? Is it a second standalone game being bundled in the same package; or is it just as you guess, i.e. an add-on that cannot quite stand on it own? If the former, then bundling them was stupid; they should have developed and released them separately and charged twice instead of once. The SP title would have had the whole hearted supported of the existing fanbase, and the MP title would have brought new customers into the ME-verse while still bringing along of fanboys and diehards from the other fanbase. If the latter, however, perhaps they should have just waited to do it, and then devoted a little more resources to make it INTO the former.

Either way it seems a poor solution to develop two separate game products and sell them as a single item. Making that change mid-franchise makes it seem even more of a cack-handed solution.

dreman9999 wrote...

Resource of EA backing Bioware. That's
the thing anyone using that arguement should remeber before say it.
Also, they need to look up the fact that MP is being made by another
team and nothing has been taken away fro the sp team.

Ummm.......no. That's not what he said in the FAQ. He clearly said that BOTH studios were working on BOTH the SP and MP sides of the game. That means the team that developed the first two games was NOT focusing on SP any more; they are now dividing their attention between SP and MP. This loss, or rather abandonment, of focus is what many of us fear will lead to a lower quality offering this time, when compared with ME1 and ME2.

[KBomb]

@JeffZero



/offtopic now!


I broke my foot and so I have a lot of unproductive time on my hands. I have been watching everything you can think of on Netflix. I just started getting into Farscape, a show I have never watched before. When he said “My name is John Crichton” it boggled my mind why that seemed so familiar. I just couldn’t place where I had seen it. Now I know. Your signature.

/offtopic end now!

Modifié par KBomb, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:31 .

[JeffZero]

Pro_Consul wrote...

If the SP story line is, as the FAQ says, a completely standalone game, then what is the MP thing? Is it a second standalone game being bundled in the same package; or is it just as you guess, i.e. an add-on that cannot quite stand on it own? If the former, then bundling them was stupid; they should have developed and released them separately and charged twice instead of once. The SP title would have had the whole hearted supported of the existing fanbase, and the MP title would have brought new customers into the ME-verse while still bringing along of fanboys and diehards from the other fanbase. If the latter, however, perhaps they should have just waited to do it, and then devoted a little more resources to make it INTO the former.

Either way it seems a poor solution to develop two separate game products and sell them as a single item. Making that change mid-franchise makes it seem even more of a cack-handed solution.

Like many of the less enthusiastic among us, I don't take every word from BioWare as gospel. I have, however, formulated far more positive conclusions. Marketing will call the add-on a "standalone game" for the solidarity of the term. I'd believe that one when I see it. But I also don't believe the company would risk nuking its 96% Metacritic from ME2 by making ME3 shorter, simpler or stupider. They'll replicate their success from the previous game to the best of their ability, all-the-while upping the storytelling ante as necessitated by the game's place in the timeline.

dreman9999 wrote...
Ummm.......no. That's not what he said in the FAQ. He clearly said that BOTH studios were working on BOTH the SP and MP sides of the game. That means the team that developed the first two games was NOT focusing on SP any more; they are now dividing their attention between SP and MP. This loss, or rather abandonment, of focus is what many of us fear will lead to a lower quality offering this time, when compared with ME1 and ME2.

Obviously I don't believe that will happen but it stands to be said that I sure hope you're wrong. I can see why you folks have come to such worries of course.

Both studios are working on both sides because Montreal needs help keeping its facts straight in regard to the massive lore of the franchise. One of the developers heavily insinuated that in a twitter update some days prior but for the life of me I don't have the link, sorry.

[JeffZero]

KBomb wrote...

/offtopic now!


I broke my foot and so I have a lot of unproductive time on my hands. I have been watching everything you can think of on Netflix. I just started getting into Farscape, a show I have never watched before. When he said “My name is John Crichton” it boggled my mind why that seemed so familiar. I just couldn’t place where I had seen it. Now I know. Your signature.

/offtopic end now!

Enjoy. It only gets better every season. Anything that feels clunky now will be a well-oiled machine by season three. And production values skyrocket too. And Claudia Black is... yum. 

[Pro_Consul]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

3. That no other RPG in history has had SP/MP, Co-Op etc. Not true.

Actually I see this as a point against the MP implementation, not FOR it. I do indeed know that there have been other hybrid RPG offerings that mixed SP and MP, co-op, etc. The thing is, I didn't like any of them. I always saw them as being jack of all trades, master of none. Most lacked compelling stories; a few lacked any RPG depth; and pretty much all of them either had good SP play or good MP, but never both. So I am expecting ME3 to follow that pattern. I am very much hoping to be wrong, but I am taking what I see as a prudent step to avoid wasting my own money in case I am right by waiting until I see how the gaming community responds before I buy.

[dreman9999]

Pro_Consul wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Vegos wrote...

Why are those two teams not working on two separate stand-alone games then, if both are getting the resources sufficient to develop a stand-alone game?

Montreal is not given the resources to make a full-fledged game. They are given the resources to make an expanded multiplayer co-op add-on.

If the SP story line is, as the FAQ says, a completely standalone game, then what is the MP thing? Is it a second standalone game being bundled in the same package; or is it just as you guess, i.e. an add-on that cannot quite stand on it own? If the former, then bundling them was stupid; they should have developed and released them separately and charged twice instead of once. The SP title would have had the whole hearted supported of the existing fanbase, and the MP title would have brought new customers into the ME-verse while still bringing along of fanboys and diehards from the other fanbase. If the latter, however, perhaps they should have just waited to do it, and then devoted a little more resources to make it INTO the former.

Either way it seems a poor solution to develop two separate game products and sell them as a single item. Making that change mid-franchise makes it seem even more of a cack-handed solution.

dreman9999 wrote...

Resource of EA backing Bioware. That's
the thing anyone using that arguement should remeber before say it.
Also, they need to look up the fact that MP is being made by another
team and nothing has been taken away fro the sp team.

Ummm.......no. That's not what he said in the FAQ. He clearly said that BOTH studios were working on BOTH the SP and MP sides of the game. That means the team that developed the first two games was NOT focusing on SP any more; they are now dividing their attention between SP and MP. This loss, or rather abandonment, of focus is what many of us fear will lead to a lower quality offering this time, when compared with ME1 and ME2.

No, he stated in the video that the montral team was built for mp only for ME3. No mention of the Sp team working on the mp was mention at all.

Modifié par dreman9999, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:34 .

[didymos1120]

Pro_Consul wrote...

 MP did, as Vegos rightly pointed out, take something from SP - development resources.

No, MP required development resources.  Whether or not those resources would ever have been used for SP is an unanswered, and for us unanswerable, question, no matter how much everyone may like to think they know better.

[dreman9999]

Vegos wrote...

That is a huge contridiction. They tell people who never bought thepast game that isa get place to start and you hate them for tryin gto sell the game to new people. Makes perfect sense.

I hate what now?

Sorry you'll have to elaborate on that.

There's one thing I dislike more than I dislike MP where I didn't ask for it, and that one thing is people putting words in my mouth.

But you don't have to play it  and it does not effect your sp game if you don't play it. You also stated that you don't agree with they way they are advertising the game. You understand why but your still ageist with is a contradiction with no sound grounds

[Strephon Gentry]

(checks the horse for a pulse)

Yep. It's dead.

By all means, keep beating it.

(gets more popcorn)

[Vegos]

But you don't have to play it  and it does not effect your sp game if you don't play it. You also stated that you don't agree with they way they are advertising the game. You understand why but your still ageist with is a contradiction with no sound grounds

Since when does "understanding something" mean the same as "agreeing with something"? I understand why my neighbor slapped his wife the other day, but that doesn't mean I condone his actions, he still shouldn't have done it.

Also, as I said, if I don't wanna play the MP bit, can I not pay for it and not get it then? Can't it be a DLC instead?

Modifié par Vegos, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:43 .

[dreman9999]

Pro_Consul wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

3. That no other RPG in history has had SP/MP, Co-Op etc. Not true.

Actually I see this as a point against the MP implementation, not FOR it. I do indeed know that there have been other hybrid RPG offerings that mixed SP and MP, co-op, etc. The thing is, I didn't like any of them. I always saw them as being jack of all trades, master of none. Most lacked compelling stories; a few lacked any RPG depth; and pretty much all of them either had good SP play or good MP, but never both. So I am expecting ME3 to follow that pattern. I am very much hoping to be wrong, but I am taking what I see as a prudent step to avoid wasting my own money in case I am right by waiting until I see how the gaming community responds before I buy.

NWN...Deiablo.
On point, it not base on what rpgs were mp. But how they were managed. MP games have a tendency to focuc on mp even if they have a sp campain. This is because they only have one team and it's focuse is mp. In short, how the development is manage effect how well the games modes are. In those older game, they would split the resources and team to make each mode of the game. Currently, that is not the case. With ME3 the sp tema has not been split, in fact they are uneffected. A new team was made for the new mode with it's own resources. This won't effect the sp but most likely the mp will be weaker then the sp.

Modifié par dreman9999, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:43 .

[JeffZero]

Vegos wrote...

But you don't have to play it  and it does not effect your sp game if you don't play it. You also stated that you don't agree with they way they are advertising the game. You understand why but your still ageist with is a contradiction with no sound grounds

Since when does "understanding something" mean the same as "agreeing with something"? I understand why my neighbor slapped his wife the other day, but that doesn't mean I condone his actions, he still shouldn't have done it.

Also, as I said, if I don't wanna play the MP bit, can I not pay for it and not get it then? Can't it be a DLC instead?

Of course not, since the game launches at $60 USD (and its equivalents) whether it's eighteen times as long as ME2 or a glorified tech demo.

[Balek-Vriege]

Pro_Consul wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Vegos wrote...

Why are those two teams not working on two separate stand-alone games then, if both are getting the resources sufficient to develop a stand-alone game?

Montreal is not given the resources to make a full-fledged game. They are given the resources to make an expanded multiplayer co-op add-on.

If the SP story line is, as the FAQ says, a completely standalone game, then what is the MP thing? Is it a second standalone game being bundled in the same package; or is it just as you guess, i.e. an add-on that cannot quite stand on it own? If the former, then bundling them was stupid; they should have developed and released them separately and charged twice instead of once. The SP title would have had the whole hearted supported of the existing fanbase, and the MP title would have brought new customers into the ME-verse while still bringing along of fanboys and diehards from the other fanbase. If the latter, however, perhaps they should have just waited to do it, and then devoted a little more resources to make it INTO the former.

Either way it seems a poor solution to develop two separate game products and sell them as a single item. Making that change mid-franchise makes it seem even more of a cack-handed solution.

dreman9999 wrote...

Resource of EA backing Bioware. That's
the thing anyone using that arguement should remeber before say it.
Also, they need to look up the fact that MP is being made by another
team and nothing has been taken away fro the sp team.

Ummm.......no. That's not what he said in the FAQ. He clearly said that BOTH studios were working on BOTH the SP and MP sides of the game. That means the team that developed the first two games was NOT focusing on SP any more; they are now dividing their attention between SP and MP. This loss, or rather abandonment, of focus is what many of us fear will lead to a lower quality offering this time, when compared with ME1 and ME2.

Your stating things as if there had never been a game without singleplayer and multiplayer.  The singleplayer experience is the main focus and part of the game.  The multiplayer is a feature and game mode which is being added to the Mass Effect series.  The fact that it is completely seperate from SP means absolutely nothing.  Does that mean every game with a seperate MP experience must sell it seperately because "the mode is a totally different game?"  No.

The second problem with your argument is that you're assuming over and over again that SP will now totally suck because it's resources have been completely drained.  If so, I have to ask:

1.  How many devs from Bioware Edmonton (I think) worked on the Multiplayer mode?
2.  How many hours did they spend on MP?
3.  What things/features got scraped because of MP?
4.  What is the total budget for Mass Effect?
5.  Did the Budget get split among both Bioware Edmonton and Bioware Montreal?
6.  Did Bioware Edmonton and Bioware Montreal get a bigger Budget?
7.  In what ways did the story and plot progression get compromised by MP development?
8.  Did writers from SP work on MP storylines as well?
9.  etc. etc. etc.

These are questions you should be asking yourself or maybe Bioware before pretending to know how "badly" if at all the MP effected SP development.

The third problem with your argument is that you assume ME series is only for hardcore RPG fans who hate multiplayer and it's only singleplayer fans who have bought ME3 and made it successful (or have a right to play ME).  Mass Effect has always been an experiment as an Action RPG trying to combine different game genres.  This isn't Dragon Age: Origins.  It just happens that ME1 was an action RPG with a great story and characters.

[dreman9999]

Vegos wrote...

But you don't have to play it  and it does not effect your sp game if you don't play it. You also stated that you don't agree with they way they are advertising the game. You understand why but your still ageist with is a contradiction with no sound grounds

Since when does "understanding something" mean the same as "agreeing with something"? I understand why my neighbor slapped his wife the other day, but that doesn't mean I condone his actions, he still shouldn't have done it.

Also, as I said, if I don't wanna play the MP bit, can I not pay for it and not get it then? Can't it be a DLC instead?

Um......Bad comparison.
You getting it free with the game.
And you think people will pay extra money to by a dlc add on launch on that should be free with the game? They did that with DA:O, no one liked that.

Modifié par dreman9999, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:46 .

[Vegos]

Okay, maybe I should have phrased the question, "Shouldn't they have started development that way, with the price of the stand-alone single-player plus the MP DLC adding up to $60?" then.

I'm not getting it "free with the game". I'm paying for something I'm not going to use.

Modifié par Vegos, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:47 .

[Balek-Vriege]

Vegos wrote...

Okay, maybe I should have phrased the question, "Shouldn't they have started development that way, with the price of the stand-alone single-player plus the MP DLC adding up to $60?" then.

I'm not getting it "free with the game". I'm paying for something I'm not going to use.

Then it's your right not to buy the game if you think it's a bad deal.  I buy loads of games with multiplayer features in which I never even hit the MP button once.