2261 réponses à ce sujet

[don-mika]

you can be sure reviews of main issue will be perfect in their assessment of MP

[Avonfastenings]

Just watched the video that Pulse did and have say that this multi-player online system looks really good and can't wait till I play it.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Onilink1230 wrote...

So at no point did they say or directly imply that MP would not be part of ME3? 

(And no, there's nothing in the written words of your post, blue or not, that addresses that question.)

never did they say 100 percent no the most i have heard them say is probably not

ps
yes i did because again they have never said 100 percent no mp so my
quote ( "as they have said over and over again "we (bioware) will not
include
extra content (in the initial releases) at the cost of the single player

experience that you (the player) have come to love.") means we might
make mp if it works with the sp and in no way screws it up, this has
been their philosophy since they started making ME2 . thus meaning they
would never say 100 percent no which means the never said, nor implyed
nor even thought of implying that it was not going to happen. so this
means that my original quot was a proper response to your follow up
question. thank you and goodnight sir!

I'll get back to you when I find someone who can read your post and translate it into English for me. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 24 octobre 2011 - 12:49 .

[Travie]

Canceled preorder, punched gamestop employee in the face, mooned the Bioware offices, threw my computer out the window, Burned my house to the ground, and ran down the street naked screaming, "NOOOOOOO!"

Seriously though, I never heard a single mention of anyone wanting this and hundreds of mentions of people FEARING Bioware would tack on this feature.

...but at the end of the day the proof is in the pudding. I hope they don't screw this up.

Modifié par Travie, 24 octobre 2011 - 09:40 .

[Comsky159]

Multiplayer seems to attract a larger audience but it does somewhat alienate some of the intrinsic core of Bioware's cult fans, not enough to make them leave in droves but enough to spark mutterings of mutiny I think. Multiplayer tied to a single player story makes me feel uneasy, probably because I'm still a bit of a theoretical imperialist when it comes to playing video games and can't help but make a comparison between this situation and that of reading a novel and finding pages are missing in the centre. I know that while ME is multicursal in that we never can experience everything in a playthrough, this concept is made irrelevant when facing an external variable; a bizarre requirement for others to play.

As I read alone, I play my games alone. In the same way reading an engrossing book aloud with other people, and having to wait for them to catch up lacks appeal, having to rely on others in a personal role-playing gaming experience is undesirable. It's the ultimate immersion breaker, an infringement upon the sanctity of my relationship with the text and the personalised interactive medium (Shepard).

I'll definitely buy ME3 because I have an ingrained desire to see the entrancing series through to the end. I must point out however that if the original ME had had multiplayer I would never have started on the series, so I instinctively (though probably unjustifiably) feel a little cheated at this point. I'll know it'll still be brilliant but personally the inclusion of multiplayer will inevitably be a source of discomfort; a bad aftertaste of sorts.

Modifié par Comsky159, 25 octobre 2011 - 10:45 .

[warlorejon]

Was going to take the week off and play me3,not now. not even preordering.I'll wait to the price cut and let my money do my talking.

[coyote_blue]

@warlorejon, comsky: Word. Having voiced our opinions on why MP is a bad choice, we have to accept that we may be wrong. We may have to accept that financially, it's just not worth it for BioWare to value our opinion over the cash benefit MP may provide them.

But BioWare shouldn't make that calculation while taking us for granted. Waiting to purchase, or not purchasing at all, is the only recourse left to us.

To briefly re-state my position: Anyone read "Game of Thrones?"  Seen the TV show?  Well, George Martin wrote some side stories called "Dunk and Egg."  They turned into comic books.  The characters Dunk and Egg predate the Game of Thrones storyline by 95 years.  They are not essential to the storyline, but they're great stories.  I really liked them.

Game of Thrones has five books in the main story, with two more to come.  Now, imagine that George pasted a 100-page "Dunk and Egg" story right into the middle of book six.  In the middle of this 100-page story, George puts in a single fact that helps plug a plot hole from book two: it's not essential to read, but it helps.

Further imagine that the book reading community calls this a stupid decision, and George retorts, "you can just skip those hundred pages, and I've been planning on doing it from the beginning."  Is George still making a mistake?  And is it not a mistake if some people buy it just for the hundred pages in the middle?

I say yes, it's still a mistake.  But I accept that I have to say it with cash if I expect to be heard.

Modifié par coyote_blue, 26 octobre 2011 - 01:37 .

[Gatt9]

coyote_blue wrote...

@warlorejon, comsky: Word. Having voiced our opinions on why MP is a bad choice, we have to accept that we may be wrong. We may have to accept that financially, it's just not worth it for BioWare to value our opinion over the cash benefit MP may provide them.

But BioWare shouldn't make that calculation while taking us for granted. Waiting to purchase, or not purchasing at all, is the only recourse left to us.

I'm going to have to disagree.

Multiplayer in a narrative driven single player game offers no financial incentives on it's own.  If persons X were not interested in a narrative driven single player game,  a handful of co-op missions isn't going to change their mind. 

To put it another way,  if you don't like Horror movies,  would you go and see Saw 12 if it had an interlude with a 10 minute comedy shown halfway through?

No,  because you don't like horror movies,  and something tacked in to "Make it appeal" to comedy fans isn't going to change your mind about horror movies.

Same thing here.  CoD,  Halo,  Team Fortress,  Gears of War,  the people heavily invested in those types of games aren't going to buy ME3 because they tacked in a handful of co-op missions in the middle.

Bioware did it for financial gain by forcing used game buyers to purchase Online Passes,  and regain the money they perceive to be lost from used game buyers.  Or more specifically,  EA did.  But they're misjudging their market to a significant extent.

Used game buyers are used game buyers for a reason.  Yes,  some of them are just recycling value when they beat a game.  But some significant number buy used because of the financial differences,  teenagers,  college kids,  lower incomes.  Forcing them to pay what works out to pretty much retail by holding content hostage isn't going to encourage them to buy,  it's going to encourage them to avoid.  It'll leave a sour taste in their mouths as well,  perceived as greed and a personal slight when they pass on a game that interested them.

There's a very real chance that this will yield lower sales for Bioware,  for a variety of reasons,  including the potential quality problems,  the intentional impediment Multiplayer is being designed to present*,  and the ill-will it will yield not too disimiliar to what Netflicks cash-grab did.

Ultimately,  this is the last gasp of dieing publishers who are fast becoming dinosaurs in the face of a digital delivery world that has no need of them.  Trying to squeeze more money out of people by holding content hostage is just going to result in a steadily decreasing revenue stream.  Because of Dead Space 2's hostage-content,  DA2's "New direction",  and ME3's hostage-content,  ME3 will be the last EA game I buy.  I recently bought Heroes of Might & Magic 6 to discover that it also has hostage-content designed to prevent people in the same house from sharing a game,  I won't buy any further games from them either.

I doubt I'm alone,  my money will go to Steam,  not to EA and their forced-multiplayer to sell Online Passes and their forced DLC to get everything on the disc you paid $60 for.  Not to Ubisoft who tries to force me to buy a copy of a game for each of my family.

*Yes,  it's an intentional impediment.  Fable 2 had co-op that wasn't an impediment.  There's a reason why it's tied to the optimal ending,  and if you read what Bioware's said very carefully,  you'll find that it's highly unlikely that avoiding it will be easy.

"If you do almost everything in the game and do it really well then..." (Emphasis mine)

Avoiding multiplayer to get the optimal ending won't be easy.  Online Passes don't sell themselves!

Modifié par Gatt9, 26 octobre 2011 - 04:25 .

[realguile]

After reading this thread I really hope I'm able to friendly fire the anti-social nerds to death l4d-style in the MP.

[Lumikki]

coyote_blue wrote...

@warlorejon, comsky: Word. Having voiced our opinions on why MP is a bad choice, we have to accept that we may be wrong. We may have to accept that financially, it's just not worth it for BioWare to value our opinion over the cash benefit MP may provide them.

You mean it to be business wise to be right choise. Yes, that could be.

How ever, that doesn't still change the thing that MP feature aren't wanted by many ME serie players. Other ways hole this arguing here would not even exist.

I'm gonna do exactly same as Warlorejon, vote with my wallet. Not that i believe it would affect anyting, but at least i will save some money and i personally don't pay full price because MP. It's more a message to EA.

realguile wrote...

After reading this thread I really hope I'm able to friendly fire the anti-social nerds to death l4d-style in the MP.

You do know that, this is the exactly the issue why so many is agaist MP's. Some people just don't make the MP fun for others. Point been your behavior will push others away and see MP more negative ways. Is that what you really want for MP's future?

Modifié par Lumikki, 26 octobre 2011 - 07:31 .

[Shermos]

I'm ashamed to admit that I pre-ordered ME3 on Origin. Is it possible for me to get a refund? I'm not asking this because of the multiplayer. I can see how it makes the game appealing to a wider audience. I just think I've made a mistake having anything to do with EA's origin. The people at Bioware are pretty decent, but at EA....

Here's something that really gets me. I have to download the game within 30 days of its release or my purchase is voided, and if I interpreted the fine print correctly, if I lose the game files - say if my hard drive dies - I have to repurchase the game. Not gonna happen. The relevant point being, EA is causing all the problems. Bioware is just following the party line.

[Arkitekt]

Stop freaking out. It'll be alright.

[realguile]

Lumikki wrote...

You do know that, this is the exactly the issue why so many is agaist MP's. Some people just don't make the MP fun for others. Point been your behavior will push others away and see MP more negative ways. Is that what you really want for MP's future?

lol yes.

Some of you clowns are so scared to play a game with others it's pathetic. Go play street fighter 4 or mk or tekken 6 and experience what it's like to go toe to toe online and get beat and come back for more. Thousands of times. That will toughen you up.  Have you ever played online multiplayer before? It's nothing differenet from arcades except for the rage quitting.

All i read in this thread are spineless scrubs crying about having to play a game with others when it's completly optional. Just pathetic. Some of you need to grow a pair and learn to have fun causing chaos with some multiplayer.

God damn.

[Iakus]

realguile wrote...
lol yes.

Some of you clowns are so scared to play a game with others it's pathetic. Go play street fighter 4 or mk or tekken 6 and experience what it's like to go toe to toe online and get beat and come back for more. Thousands of times. That will toughen you up.  Have you ever played online multiplayer before? It's nothing differenet from arcades except for the rage quitting.

All i read in this thread are spineless scrubs crying about having to play a game with others when it's completly optional. Just pathetic. Some of you need to grow a pair and learn to have fun causing chaos with some multiplayer.

God damn.

Well, gee.  I'm convinced.  Clearly my fears were totally misplaced.

/sarcasm.

[Garrison2009]

While I don't believe I would have worded it as... strongly... as the previous poster, a valid if callous point has been made. Once again, the Multiplayer is optional, and unlike the horror movie analogy above, people forget that with a movie nothing is optional. You watch it from the beginning to the end, unlike Mass Effect, where you choose what direction you want to take or 'what part of the movie you want to watch.' MP is simply another part of that movie that can be easily 'fast-forwarded' through if you so wish.

[Iakus]

Garrison2009 wrote...

While I don't believe I would have worded it as... strongly... as the previous poster, a valid if callous point has been made. Once again, the Multiplayer is optional, and unlike the horror movie analogy above, people forget that with a movie nothing is optional. You watch it from the beginning to the end, unlike Mass Effect, where you choose what direction you want to take or 'what part of the movie you want to watch.' MP is simply another part of that movie that can be easily 'fast-forwarded' through if you so wish.

Bioware says it's optional.  But Bioware says a lot of things in an effort to put the best possible spin on things.  Remember how planet scanning was "strangely addictive"?

"Single player is a complete and whole experience on its own"
But multiplayer is part of the canon.  So if you want to miss out on part of the story...

"You can get the optimal ending just by doing single player"
IF you do a completionist run and do really well at it.  IE, single player is "the hard way"

"Multiplayer does not infringe on single player experience at all"
Except when it does.

"Two separate studios worked on the sections of the game on their own".   
But it's all going to be one game, one set of disks.  X amount of room.  Was nothing left out because they're trying to essentially fit two games in one?

And that's exactly the problem:  Bioware is trying to put two different games into one.  While Galaxy at War might make for a fine game on its own, I do not believe that adding a MP component adds anything to Shepard's story.  I believe that it will in fact, detract from it.  

Nor do I believe that MP will be as optional as they are claiming.  Much of the stuff being said about MP is the same kind of stuff said about the changes in DA2.  Essentially, it amounts to "Trust us, it'll be awesome". 

I fear that regardless of words, regardless of intentions, in combining sp and mp, one, the other, or both will suffer.  I hope I don't sound too selfish when I say I hope it's not the sp that suffers for it.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

 I hope I don't sound too selfish when I say I hope it's not the sp that suffers for it.

You're a far better man than I. If it comes down to it, between the two, it damn well better be the multiplayer which suffers.

[Garrison2009]

iakus wrote...

Garrison2009 wrote...

While I don't believe I would have worded it as... strongly... as the previous poster, a valid if callous point has been made. Once again, the Multiplayer is optional, and unlike the horror movie analogy above, people forget that with a movie nothing is optional. You watch it from the beginning to the end, unlike Mass Effect, where you choose what direction you want to take or 'what part of the movie you want to watch.' MP is simply another part of that movie that can be easily 'fast-forwarded' through if you so wish.

Bioware says it's optional.  But Bioware says a lot of things in an effort to put the best possible spin on things.  Remember how planet scanning was "strangely addictive"?

"Single player is a complete and whole experience on its own"
But multiplayer is part of the canon.  So if you want to miss out on part of the story...

"You can get the optimal ending just by doing single player"
IF you do a completionist run and do really well at it.  IE, single player is "the hard way"

"Multiplayer does not infringe on single player experience at all"
Except when it does.

"Two separate studios worked on the sections of the game on their own".   
But it's all going to be one game, one set of disks.  X amount of room.  Was nothing left out because they're trying to essentially fit two games in one?

And that's exactly the problem:  Bioware is trying to put two different games into one.  While Galaxy at War might make for a fine game on its own, I do not believe that adding a MP component adds anything to Shepard's story.  I believe that it will in fact, detract from it.  

Nor do I believe that MP will be as optional as they are claiming.  Much of the stuff being said about MP is the same kind of stuff said about the changes in DA2.  Essentially, it amounts to "Trust us, it'll be awesome". 

I fear that regardless of words, regardless of intentions, in combining sp and mp, one, the other, or both will suffer.  I hope I don't sound too selfish when I say I hope it's not the sp that suffers for it.

I agree. If one HAS to suffer for it, I would prefer the MP to do so... But I dont see that as inevitable. You are presuming far too much far too negatively going by what has not been said and by what you can not backup. In short, once again I must state, make your decisions about what will be affected or not when you actually have hard TANGIBLE facts to go by and not simply what you presume.

[Repzik]

You know, modern disc technology has a ludicrous amount of space on it.

Calm down.

[Iakus]

Garrison2009 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Garrison2009 wrote...

While I don't believe I would have worded it as... strongly... as the previous poster, a valid if callous point has been made. Once again, the Multiplayer is optional, and unlike the horror movie analogy above, people forget that with a movie nothing is optional. You watch it from the beginning to the end, unlike Mass Effect, where you choose what direction you want to take or 'what part of the movie you want to watch.' MP is simply another part of that movie that can be easily 'fast-forwarded' through if you so wish.

Bioware says it's optional.  But Bioware says a lot of things in an effort to put the best possible spin on things.  Remember how planet scanning was "strangely addictive"?

"Single player is a complete and whole experience on its own"
But multiplayer is part of the canon.  So if you want to miss out on part of the story...

"You can get the optimal ending just by doing single player"
IF you do a completionist run and do really well at it.  IE, single player is "the hard way"

"Multiplayer does not infringe on single player experience at all"
Except when it does.

"Two separate studios worked on the sections of the game on their own".   
But it's all going to be one game, one set of disks.  X amount of room.  Was nothing left out because they're trying to essentially fit two games in one?

And that's exactly the problem:  Bioware is trying to put two different games into one.  While Galaxy at War might make for a fine game on its own, I do not believe that adding a MP component adds anything to Shepard's story.  I believe that it will in fact, detract from it.  

Nor do I believe that MP will be as optional as they are claiming.  Much of the stuff being said about MP is the same kind of stuff said about the changes in DA2.  Essentially, it amounts to "Trust us, it'll be awesome". 

I fear that regardless of words, regardless of intentions, in combining sp and mp, one, the other, or both will suffer.  I hope I don't sound too selfish when I say I hope it's not the sp that suffers for it.

I agree. If one HAS to suffer for it, I would prefer the MP to do so... But I dont see that as inevitable. You are presuming far too much far too negatively going by what has not been said and by what you can not backup. In short, once again I must state, make your decisions about what will be affected or not when you actually have hard TANGIBLE facts to go by and not simply what you presume.

You say I am presuming too much negativity.  I say you are being far too optimistic.  I cannot simply take Bioware's word anymore.  Not after the last couple of years.  Not after Dragon Age 2 (which was decent despite the changes rather than because of them).  Not after Mass Effect 2 (yes, I'm a "ME2 hater")  Not after Bioware took such pains to hide multiplayer for so long.  I'm seeing a pattern of behavior here.  You may not see it, but it's plenty tangible to me.  I have seen little to no "tangible facts"  to give me hope.  Just a lot of "this will be AWESOME!" talk.  Sorry, that stuff doesn't make me go starry-eyed anymore.

Bioware has to prove they're worthy of trust again.  Thus my sig.  If mp is so optional, if sp is so whole and complete, then it should run just fine without any mp files at all.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Repzik wrote...

You know, modern disc technology has a ludicrous amount of space on it.

Calm down.

Missing.  The.  Point.

[Nashiktal]

Repzik wrote...

You know, modern disc technology has a ludicrous amount of space on it.

Calm down.

Its not about disc space from what I understand, its about resources being used to make the game at least according to the arguments presented.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Nashiktal wrote...

Repzik wrote...

You know, modern disc technology has a ludicrous amount of space on it.

Calm down.

Its not about disc space from what I understand, its about resources being used to make the game at least according to the arguments presented.

Disk space matters. You have 4.7GB per DVD, and there's only so much room unless you want to ship the game with 3+ DVDs... 

[Garrison2009]

iakus wrote...

Garrison2009 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Garrison2009 wrote...

While I don't believe I would have worded it as... strongly... as the previous poster, a valid if callous point has been made. Once again, the Multiplayer is optional, and unlike the horror movie analogy above, people forget that with a movie nothing is optional. You watch it from the beginning to the end, unlike Mass Effect, where you choose what direction you want to take or 'what part of the movie you want to watch.' MP is simply another part of that movie that can be easily 'fast-forwarded' through if you so wish.

Bioware says it's optional.  But Bioware says a lot of things in an effort to put the best possible spin on things.  Remember how planet scanning was "strangely addictive"?

"Single player is a complete and whole experience on its own"
But multiplayer is part of the canon.  So if you want to miss out on part of the story...

"You can get the optimal ending just by doing single player"
IF you do a completionist run and do really well at it.  IE, single player is "the hard way"

"Multiplayer does not infringe on single player experience at all"
Except when it does.

"Two separate studios worked on the sections of the game on their own".   
But it's all going to be one game, one set of disks.  X amount of room.  Was nothing left out because they're trying to essentially fit two games in one?

And that's exactly the problem:  Bioware is trying to put two different games into one.  While Galaxy at War might make for a fine game on its own, I do not believe that adding a MP component adds anything to Shepard's story.  I believe that it will in fact, detract from it.  

Nor do I believe that MP will be as optional as they are claiming.  Much of the stuff being said about MP is the same kind of stuff said about the changes in DA2.  Essentially, it amounts to "Trust us, it'll be awesome". 

I fear that regardless of words, regardless of intentions, in combining sp and mp, one, the other, or both will suffer.  I hope I don't sound too selfish when I say I hope it's not the sp that suffers for it.

I agree. If one HAS to suffer for it, I would prefer the MP to do so... But I dont see that as inevitable. You are presuming far too much far too negatively going by what has not been said and by what you can not backup. In short, once again I must state, make your decisions about what will be affected or not when you actually have hard TANGIBLE facts to go by and not simply what you presume.

You say I am presuming too much negativity.  I say you are being far too optimistic.  I cannot simply take Bioware's word anymore.  Not after the last couple of years.  Not after Dragon Age 2 (which was decent despite the changes rather than because of them).  Not after Mass Effect 2 (yes, I'm a "ME2 hater")  Not after Bioware took such pains to hide multiplayer for so long.  I'm seeing a pattern of behavior here.  You may not see it, but it's plenty tangible to me.  I have seen little to no "tangible facts"  to give me hope.  Just a lot of "this will be AWESOME!" talk.  Sorry, that stuff doesn't make me go starry-eyed anymore.

Bioware has to prove they're worthy of trust again.  Thus my sig.  If mp is so optional, if sp is so whole and complete, then it should run just fine without any mp files at all.

Then we are on opposite sides of the spectrum here (a position I keep finding myself in). Let me state that I play Bioware games for one reason and one reason only: The story... as fun as gameplay is, the story is what drew me in in the first place and what keeps drawing me in every single time Bioware puts out another game. I love RPGs but, once again, those elements are secondary next to them putting in a concrete well-laid-out plot and characters.

What's happening here is you've got two groups. People like me, who value the journey, the narrative. And the others who, while they may also value the narrative, put RPG mechanics above everything. THAT is precisely what is causing this split in the fanbase. Bioware has finally landed on the story-comes-first side and those who value the gameplay as higher are disapointed. Granted, that is their right and I hold nothing against them for that..

Modifié par Garrison2009, 26 octobre 2011 - 09:26 .

[Iakus]

Garrison2009 wrote...

Then we are on opposite sides of the spectrum here (a position I keep finding myself in). Let me state that I play Bioware games for one reason and one reason only: The story... as fun as gameplay is, the story is what drew me in in the first place and what keeps drawing me in every single time Bioware puts out another game. I love RPGs but, once again, those elements are secondary next to them putting in a concrete well-laid-out plot and characters.

What's happening here is you've got two groups. People like me, who value the journey, the narrative. And the others who, while they may also value the narrative, put RPG mechanics above everything. THAT is precisely what is causing this split in the fanbase. Bioware has finally landed on the story-comes-first side and those who value the gameplay as higher are disapointed. Granted, that is their right and I hold nothing against them for that..

I like you.  You remind me of me.  Only, you know, wrong 

I also put story first and foremost.  I would not have cared if the gameplay mechanics went unchanged since ME1.  Part of what made DA2 a good game for me was the character interactions, which were thankfully left mostly alone.  

But I cannot for the life of me see how adding a multiplayer component will add to the story.  Quite the opposite in fact.  I think it will dilute the story.  By:

A) not having a story and thus resources went into essentially making a multiplayer shooting gallery
it is necessary to the story, in which case those who cannot or will not do multiplayer will be excluded from part of the overall canon.  
C) it's a completely separate story in its own right.  In which case. what's it doing in Shepard's story to begin with?

I'm not some anti multiplayer zealot.  I do in fact play multiplayer games from time to time.  But as a social aspect.  For the players, not the story.  How often do people play mp for the story?  How deep is the Diablo storyline?

IMO if Bioware really did land on the "story comes first" side , they would have completed the trilogy with Shepard's story, completely single player, and only add Galaxy at War as an expansion, a DLC, or a different game set in the Mass Effect universe.  As it is, I suspect Bioware landed "money comes first" side.

Modifié par iakus, 27 octobre 2011 - 12:31 .