Wittand25 wrote...
Metalrocks wrote...
sounds like you miss the point of origin. we are not complaining about origin as such, we complain what origin does
and is. and it clearly scans your pc and therefor is a spyware. even the german news made a report on that. are you telling me that they are wrong too when lawyers etc, found out it is a spyware? that EA broke the privacy laws, especially these of germany or europe as such ?
if you dont have a problem with a programm that scans your pc for data that has nothing what so ever to do with games, good for you.
wile the rest of us will not give EA our privat files. i stay with steam. at least they dont scan my whole pc for files which have nothing to do with games.
origin in development or not, they still dont have the right to scan the pcs of the customer.
To set some things clear.
A lawer read through the EULA and found it containing passages that violate german law. The EULA got adjusted to now fit with german law. That is all that happened. Nobody who made a fuss in Germany about the matter, including the lawer who wrote the first article, looked even at the client, they all just retold this one article in a gaming mag.
In fact in the time since then the client has been investigated by several groups and none of them has found that Origin does anything illegal or tries to access files that it has no right to see.
It does not scan your pc, it does not even report cracked versions of older games according c`t magazin.
Good to keep all our information current and clear, thanks for the update
Also to maintain clarity (for those who may not know) a EULA can be changed with any/every update to the software meaning any aspect or the document as a whole can be changed in any way and unless you re-read the whole document every time the software client is patched you won't actually know. This makes me uneasy in the case of a EULA that contained language regarding the (unnotified) transfer of data of (unspecified) third parties.
Also let us not forget that due to the nature of international laws EULAs are frequently (in whole or in part) localized in their language and/or effect. Meaning that the content of a EULA in Germany or France won't automatically translate to any change or effect in Russia or the UK, et al.
I'd further like to comment really quick on why I personally have concluded I do not intend to use digital game services. Within the past few years there have been security breaches in each of the following networks: Bioware/EA, Sony, xBox Live, WoW .... the list goes on but with the market share already in question I don't feel the need to elaborate further. Now it should be stressed (again for clarity) that many of these security breaches were not brute force hacks into the direct networks themselves but rather other methods of compromising user data security (tho some of them were indeed hacks), one example of an differing method is 'phishing' tho there have been others. The point being a simple truism of the digital age
the more of your information there is online the less secure your information is. This applies to both the quality (i.e. how sensitive) of the information but also (and often forgotten) the
quantity of the information (i.e. how many copies are there/how many data bases contain an duplication or link). In the digital age have inaccurate information about you added can be just a problematic as having sensitive information discovered. Profiles, lists, data sets etc. are frequently duplicated for sale, distribution ot partners or subsidiaries, acquired en mass by certain legal actions/injunctions, or outright stolen by hackers or through corporate espionage.
And while the majority of these replications (even if they contain errors) usually come to nothing of significance, every repetition moves an individual closer to "critical mass" where the likelihood of a problem continues to increase (as it does with every replication/transfer). It is in essence like a digital game of Russian roulette wherein you are fine, until you're not. Now I
am not saying poor data security will threaten you with death, that notion is frankly silly and as such the above analogy is only used as a logical pattern comparison. However if you've ever lost a job, been audited, had your credit damaged, been denied legal ID (to list some of the most common effects outside of having your money outright stolen) you can attest that the effects of this purely intangible risk can quite rapidly lead to tangible consequences. Just ask Sony, how much do you think it cost them when the security of the PSN was compromised? And none of the information they had was illegal or secret, but that's the crux of it, information doesn't have to be secret or illegal (or even strictly speaking financial or medical) to be sensitive. And
yes, information commonly gathered for gaming reasons can often be considered sensitive. If there were literally no risk can any of you honestly say that you think corporations would spend (and I'm glad they do, I salute them for it) such large amounts of time/money/work hours on their data security systems, and not just systems but also making sure everyone knows they have a system in place. Personal information is big business, there are multinational businesses entities that exist solely by collecting and trading end user/consumer profiles/habits/information etc. and they have disreputable (or even illegal) counterparts as well.
It is not logically sound to be flippant about personal data security, if you are you have my express wishes that you're lucky enough not to face the consequences of your choice (many people never have too). But trust me as someone who has, it's beyond "no fun" and all the way into 'owing lots of money and being denied access to services because of a ledger error created by one company'. See it can happen even if no one steals your identity or gets access to your money. It can happen if someone has as little as your name and an address where you used to reside (rent in my case)
years ago. And the damaging error can get replicated and transferred among many data bases, for years, before you're even notified there's a problem. And this can all happen without a single illegal action being taken either by the customer or the business.
So as someone who's worked in security, is related to people in security, is friends with a number of cops, is related to people in data/information security (and who even has one high school friend now employed by the CIA), and also as someone whos suffered the consequences of data security issues (despite being careful) allow me to say that I feel any automatic information gathering without notice as to what information is being sent and when its being sent (in every case that it is gathered or sent) as well as the ability to explicitly see what information is being held and know in advance who it will be shared with, well I find it disquieting (and that's a significant understatement). And to anyone sitting there reading this thinking that I sound a bit "dramatic", "over the top" or even "paranoid" (as I've been called online more than once
lol ) let me say this to you, I'm the mellow layed back one among myself and the people I listed above. You see there's the funny trend, the more someone knows about data, information security, and
how it really works the more "paranoid" and "over dramatic" they become about the issue.
So, do what you will with it, and regardless of what your choice is I wish you the best of luck with it. But let us maintain a respect for the simple fact that Origin/Steam/et al do increase security vulnerabilities through their use, and they do that even if they're not breaking any laws or "scanning where they shouldn't be". All the rest is just a question of
how much not
if they increase the data risks your facing.
Also, not to sound too much like a politician
but before anyone asks, no I can't elaborate further on most of what I've mentioned above I am in almost every case legally barred from doing so, and the bits that I am not legally hindered over are personal information that I don't want to have replicated on the internet
so sorry in advance for not being able to provide more depth/better citations for the above. Take it with a grain of salt since you don't know me. But for what it's worth, coming from a stranger, I give you my word that all of it is accurate to the best of my knowledge and ability and much of it is first hand (and almost all the rest is direct from someone I trust who has it first hand).
Take care out there folks, the digital world is not as benigne as some might have you believe.
Cheers,
Legion
ps ~ as usual, in case anyone might misunderstand, this is in no way meant as a shot at either of the above quoted posters. I reiterate my thanks to each of them for continuing to provide information and updates on the issues at hand, they are quoted as a source of context not in an attempt to contradict either of them.
Ce sujet est fermé
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which to me is a headdesk moment as in theory the main purpose of the software licenses being solid is purported to be a service to the end user).
but that conversation would take us back off topic).
criminals
(see it is possible to have a sense of humor about serious stuff, helps avoid those heart attacks and stress induced migraines ![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
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