3140 réponses à ce sujet

[CheshireBlue]

I don't really have anything to add to this thread except for the fact that I'm tired of having to prove my loyalty to game publishers (which is bizarre, in my opinion, as a customer, companies should be trying to sway me) by going through increasingly complex hassles. Origin aggregates no value, it's just another obstacle, in an already long list.

This hobby's starting to look more trouble than fun for me, it's disheartening.

[DownyTif]

FoxShadowblade wrote...

Person 1: Origin sucks!
Person 2: I agree!
Person 3: I don't mind it, because I don't know what it is.
Person 1 & 2 [Verbally Punch Person 3, Exit Stage Left]
[Fade to black]

I love this thread.

Thread crashers that come in this thread with no argument, but just empty sentences (oh wait, you just did that) or come to insult people calling them names should just read and not comment. On the other hand, an Origin fanboy, an Origin user, an Origin defender or anybody that has an opinion on the subject is MOST than welcome if he has something to discuss.

So I invite you to state your opinion on the matter and argue if you feel like it's worth your time.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

DownyTif wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...

Person 1: Origin sucks!
Person 2: I agree!
Person 3: I don't mind it, because I don't know what it is.
Person 1 & 2 [Verbally Punch Person 3, Exit Stage Left]
[Fade to black]

I love this thread.

Thread crashers that come in this thread with no argument, but just empty sentences (oh wait, you just did that) or come to insult people calling them names should just read and not comment. On the other hand, an Origin fanboy, an Origin user, an Origin defender or anybody that has an opinion on the subject is MOST than welcome if he has something to discuss.

So I invite you to state your opinion on the matter and argue if you feel like it's worth your time.

The real issue at hand is any of those people which fall into the "Origin user" database, are likely uneducated or lack the constitution to overcome personal desire for moral correctness. Simply for the fact that they support Origin in its present state implies, a) they are not educated to what Origin is doing with their data, nor what they are agreeing too, they realize point a) but still choose to ignore it out of lack of will. These qualities wouldn't be found in someone who could contribute in a positive manner on the topic, I too welcome conflicting points, but I have yet to hear anything even remotely intelligent from those supporting Origin.

[McBeath]

The above statement is just plain rude, if not incredably ignorant.

First, I agree for the most part with peoples complaints. You shouldn't have to go through the trouble of installing Origin just to play a retail version of a game you've already paid for. It's got me on the fence about picking up ME3 for he 360 instead of my PC(luckily I own 1 and 2 for both platforms). I do feel for people who are invested though in thier PC's.

To claim that somebody is "uneducated" just because they aren't bothered by Origin is just stupid. I personally don't have anything to hide on my dedicated gaming PC. Frankly there is nothing on it but games. EA is welcome to scan it any time, I could care less.  I don't even care about the privacy issue(though I respect those that are personal by nature), frankly if some guy at EA wants to watch me go to the bathroom it's his time to waste.  Not everybody feels that way, though that doesn't make them any less intellegent than I am, or less deserving of respect.

That being said people are allowed to decide for themselves what thier own "moral correctiveness" is, and to what end they are willing to go to play said game. Thier willpower, moral standpoint or level of intellegance isn't a factor in thier choice... it certainly isn't in mine.

Cheers. McBeath.

Modifié par McBeath, 25 novembre 2011 - 04:48 .

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

McBeath wrote...

The above statement is just plain rude, if not incredably ignorant.

First, I agree for the most part with peoples complaints. You shouldn't have to go through the trouble of installing Origin just to play a retail version of a game you've already paid for. It's got me on the fence about picking up ME3 for he 360 instead of my PC(luckily I own 1 and 2 for both platforms). I do feel for people who are invested though in thier PC's.

To claim that somebody is "uneducated" just because they aren't bothered by Origin is just stupid. I personally don't have anything to hide on my dedicated gaming PC. Frankly there is nothing on it but games. EA is welcome to scan it any time, I could care less.  I don't even care about the privacy issue(though I respect those that are personal by nature), frankly if some guy at EA wants to watch me go to the bathroom it's his time to waste.  Not everybody feels that way, though that doesn't make them any less intellegent than I am, or less deserving of respect.

That being said people are allowed to decide for themselves what thier own "moral correctiveness" is, and to what end they are willing to go to play said game. Thier willpower, moral standpoint or level of intellegance isn't a factor in thier choice... it certainly isn't in mine.

Cheers. McBeath.

Although it could have been arguably a little more clear, here is what I meant with regards to that point, hardly ignorant, I'd like you to prove it to be if you still feel it is, "they are not educated to what Origin is doing with their data", hence uneducated, pretty open and shut in terms of explaination with respect to point a). As for moral stance, it is subjective, but based on most civilized societies having some concept of privacy of the individual, which only exception of breach when there is a serious crime for which a warrant has been obtained to proceed to breach that person's privacy.

And if you really feel that way, I suggest you upload a video of yourself taking a crap on youtube, as well as all your personal information for anyone on the internet to see, because we all know how secure Bioware/EA are with information. That and what is one random employee/system profiler versus the many on the internet. Awaiting a counterpoint.

[InvincibleHero]

CheshireBlue wrote...

I don't really have anything to add to this thread except for the fact that I'm tired of having to prove my loyalty to game publishers (which is bizarre, in my opinion, as a customer, companies should be trying to sway me) by going through increasingly complex hassles. Origin aggregates no value, it's just another obstacle, in an already long list.

This hobby's starting to look more trouble than fun for me, it's disheartening.

it is and you know what I vote with my dollars and stick to it. I dislike Steam and please no fanboy attempts to sway me. I bought all Fallout games including 3 and when they went with you needed steam I was done with them. I will not get Skyrim either despite owning all TES games. I won't even accept a freebee steam game from newegg for ordering a videocard that offers it. Suffice to say always on onlie for offline single player games is bogus and I don't buy them. So any publisher that goes that way will not get my $$$.

If origin proves to be onerous then I will not buy any games that use it. If they want to scan for installed programs to look for pirated games I'm OK with that because I always buy my games or any other media. People are likely exaggerating the extent of the info gathered. To date I know of no EA breaches but plenty other companies have including state and federal government to apple and MS and Sony and banks. So saying hey they're EA they will screw up is disingenuous.

People need to make a fair argument and they aren't because they have little facts to back it up. Prove it accesses and transmits financial data and passwords back to EA and then we can talk. Claiming it will is stupid without proof.

[Wittand25]

So are you trying to assert that all of those youtube videos documenting Origin scanning tax documents and other files,  and the youtube videos documenting it intiating scanning before you've agreed to the EULA are all fake?

Do you have a link to your evidence?
Because I'm having a really hard time with your assertions.

Are you talking about the videos showing that Origin accessed the ProgramData folder?

I recommend to take a second look at those videos and to pay attention to the time displayed at the left side of the window. The time Origin accessed the several gigabyte big folder is less than a second, not to mention that not a single file was opened.
And if you understand German I can give you a link to c`t magazin, that ran a test on Origin (you cannot actually read the article though since it is print magazin. but the test does also get mentioned here and on several other German websites.

Modifié par Wittand25, 25 novembre 2011 - 07:42 .

[InvincibleHero]

[quote]Wittand25 wrote...

[qoute]

So are you trying to assert that all of those youtube videos documenting Origin scanning tax documents and other files,  and the youtube videos documenting it intiating scanning before you've agreed to the EULA are all fake?

Do you have a link to your evidence?

Because I'm having a really hard time with your assertions.[/quote]
Are you talking about the videos showing that Origin accessed the ProgramData folder?

I recommend to take a second look at those videos and to pay attention to the time displayed at the left side of the window. The time Origin accessed the several gigabyte big folder is less than a second, not to mention that not a single file was opened.

[/quote]

I am not a programmer and seriously if it really did that stuff they would be stupid to do that. They will lose in public opinion and by law and damages could be billions which they could ill afford to give away. How could you prove it was benign anyway? People could fake up malicious quite easily. You tube videos are rife with plagerizations and outright lies among other violations them being authority and factual sources is far and few between. I doubt any of that could be used in an actual case.

Do you seriously believe people worried about their security are going to post their sensitve data on you tube? Oh come on seriously what is a read/ write speed on hds. Note theoretical maximum on 7200 is 300 megabytes a second to read no latency and no fragmentation at max spin. So I'd say it looks for install list and relevant data not everything because that is not possible.

If not a single file was opened then how was security compromised?

[Lumikki]

Issue isn't does someone support Origin client. They have full rights to do so and like Origin client.

Issue is that this thread is about EA giving those who don't like Origin client a choice not to use it.

So, people who come here and say Origin client is fine as it is, is NOT fine, because they message is that other people should not have a choice in the matter. We who don't wanna use Origin client don't ask take Origin client away from those who support it, we ask, give us the choice not to be forced to use it.

This threath is about asking to give a choice, we need to give everyone free choice and not force anyone one way or other. In most countries we all have free will to make our choices one way or other and others doesn't make choices behave of us. Same here, we wanna make our own choices. EA should respect they customers enough to give us same free choice and not force us to something they want.

Modifié par Lumikki, 25 novembre 2011 - 08:14 .

[InvincibleHero]

Lumikki wrote...

Issue isn't does someone support Origin client. They have full rights to do so and like it.

Issue is that this thread is about EA giving those who don't like Origin client a choice not to use it.

So, people who come here and say Origin client is fine as it is, is NOT fine, because they message is that other people should not have a choice in the matter. We who don't wanna use Origin client don't ask take Origin client away from those who support it, we ask, give us the choice not to be forced to use it.

This threath is about asking to give a choice, we need to give everyone free choice and not force anyone one way or other.

You know that isn't going to happen. If Origin proves to be limited to legit gathering of data to prevent piracy then your choice will be to not buy games that require it and do without or break the law and steal their product which is shameful. I will never pirate those games I mentioned though I would surely love to play them. Make no mistake it is theft. So indeed if Origin proves to onerous for me then I will not buy any EA product that uses it.

[Lumikki]

Preventing piracy has nothing to do with origin client.

Origin client is online digital distribution software with data collection abilities (spyware). Meaning it's design for online gaming, distribute and sell games, patches, addional content to customers. Basicly this is about way to marketing (advertising) game companies products, way to distribute products and using customers to advance companies knowledge of they customers in very forceful ways.

How ever, what EA should ask, why force Origin client use to they customers, if some of they customers have no use for it? Problem is, it's harmful product, because collecting data, break of privacy, security and copywrite violation. Forced data collection (spyware), it's illegal by many countries laws, the way Origin software does it.

Also best way to fight agaist piracy is provide good, easy to get and use, cheap products to buy for customers. More difficult companies make they product for they customers, more people will look better solutions, from piracy.

Modifié par Lumikki, 25 novembre 2011 - 08:44 .

[RoseLegion]

I'd like to reiterate that there are data security issues raised by having a profile of your information (even if it's not 'sensitive') being collected, and an increasing one if it is copied to other sources.
This statement is made independently of any concepts of Origin gathering data it 'shouldn't' and isn't made with the assumption that EA is more exposed to a cyber-security breach than any other major business.  For a detailed description of the concept check my post in the middle of page 104 of this thread.  Starts with "Good to keep all our information current and clear, thanks for the update" right after the box of quoted text.

Also despite the obvious connections that could lead the discussion there (and our bit of joking around on the last page) this thread really hasn't anything to do with piracy or even a discussion about anything regarding making the Origin client function in a manner other than as intended. This thread is about A)asking for answers regarding ME3 and it's use/or lack of Origin, B)Asking that we as customers be given a choice in the method we purchase games C) discussing our reasoning and relevant supporting facts and information related to A & B. Where the "lines" are in this may be hazy but for anyone new to the thread who isn't going to take the time to read the whole conversation, please just bear in mind that this discussion is not about piracy, promoting one service over another, or bashing a specific company. The thread is about the choices we have as end users, what motivates them and why/how we got here (to the best of our understanding). If you want to participate please do, I believe we all welcome additional voices. However if you haven't read the whole thread try starting out by posting a detailed, and let me repeat that part, detailed description of your stance and why rather than simply jotting a few quick lines stating where you stand and spending the rest of whatever is left of your post engaged in some form of summary dismissal of the stance or desires of other posters. That sort of flippant disregard for the viewpoint another has possessed doesn't add anything constructive to our conversation here. Hence if you are willing to invest no more in your posts than that I would request that you exercise enough respect for other posters and the conversation as a whole to refrain from posting until/unless you develop the desire to put logical details front and center.

Thank you for your consideration,
Cheers,
Legion

[Unbannable]

I just bought Batman Arkham City on EA Origins for 24.99.  As much as I hate EA, I couldn't ignore this great sale

[BounceDK]

Don't want Origin? Don't buy the game then. I'll laugh when I'm shooting up baddies while you sit in a corner crying.

[Lumikki]

BounceDK wrote...

Don't want Origin? Don't buy the game then. I'll laugh when I'm shooting up baddies while you sit in a corner crying.

Don't want house with garage? Don't buy the car then. Does sound stupid does it?
Because Origin is same as unablity buy car if you don't have house with garage as metaform.
Point been people should be able to buy and use house and car without restrictions between each other.

Point been if i go local shop and buy ME3, then why to hell I need origin client? It has absoloute nothing to do with game I buyed from shop.

Modifié par Lumikki, 25 novembre 2011 - 11:22 .

[xCirdanx]

BounceDK wrote...

Don't want Origin? Don't buy the game then. I'll laugh when I'm shooting up baddies while you sit in a corner crying.

I would assume, the people who don´t buy ME3 because of Origin, but still "get" it anyway, will have the last laugh.

Modifié par xCirdanx, 25 novembre 2011 - 12:21 .

[MarauderESP]

BounceDK wrote...

Don't want Origin? Don't buy the game then. I'll laugh when I'm shooting up baddies while you sit in a corner crying.

err.... im old enough to cry for not having a game, i could use the time to gather with my fiance to drink or eat something, or go with friends to a bar and have some beers while playing darts..... so while i will be having a life doing that u will be laughing alone in front of a tv(monitor) .... please go ahead and use your imagination to see the picture....

edit: grammar!!

Modifié par MarauderESP, 25 novembre 2011 - 01:26 .

[MarauderESP]

xCirdanx wrote...

BounceDK wrote...

Don't want Origin? Don't buy the game then. I'll laugh when I'm shooting up baddies while you sit in a corner crying.

I would assume, the people who don´t buy ME3 because of Origin, but still "get" it anyway, will have the last laugh.

yup u have a point there..... sadly

[Embrosil]

Hmm, 105 pages and still no official word from Bioware.It seems I was right. There simply will not be any statement and the game will get released with Origin. Well their loss, I will use my money to buy something else.
On the side note, I bought a Wing Commander 3 on gog.com and when I saw the big logo of Origin (the company who made these excellent simulators) I dropped a tear. What a misuse of once famous name.

Modifié par Embrosil, 25 novembre 2011 - 01:29 .

[SalsaDMA]

BounceDK wrote...

Don't want Origin? Don't buy the game then. I'll laugh when I'm shooting up baddies while you sit in a corner crying.

If you are implying people would actually cry over not being able to play specific games, then you have an addictino problem you need to go see someone for.

The only thing anyone should cry about, as far as Origin goes, is the loss human rights and the ignorance of the masses that allows corporations to do as they see fit.

One day in the future, some guy will sit and cry in the corner because he feels his life is hopeless when everything he does is monitored and he is locked in a small box career and job-oportunity wise because he accidently visited the wrong sites on the net while he was drunk the night before.

As it was elequantly put by a proffesor of law in one of the links provided in this thread, freedom isn't given up in one action but in small increments.
This will ultimately in the end act as a big sticky web to keep you firmly in place and under control. What's even worse, is that normally when people talk about 'big brother societies' they are doing so with the idea that it is the government that is doing the surveilance. Here we are talking about corporations that are trying to get power of a level and type that people are not even comfortable with letting governments have.

I will join the line of thought that anyone being in favour of Origin and the implications of it HAS to be uneducated about it. I simply cannot comprehend why anyone would want to strive for a society where our lives would end under the control of people that weren't even selected to get this kind of power from democratic elections, but purely by either 'knowing the right people', 'being born into it' or 'having enough forcemultipler to bully their way in'.

If there ever were deserving subjects of the Darwin awards, supporting EA's attempt of seizing control of peoples private data should be a ripe candidate.

The fact that we are talking about a corporation that tries to enforce censorship and aims to propagate an intimidating sense of fear of repercusion as accepted business strategies (Their support of SOPA and their connection of forums with game access and the implications of these 2 areas) makes it clear that we are not even talking about a company that TRIES to come off as being benign towards the general public; but quite the contrary seems almost obsessed with control of their consumers and aren't above using threats and customer-harmfull actions as a basic part of their business model. Oh.. and let us not forget all the direct lies they have issued from time to time. 'Anything goes' seems to be the motto these days...

In the past I enjoyed alot of EA games all the way back to my old commodore64. But the company has changed alot since then, and from being the 'Electronic Artists' they used to be, they are now only 'EA', a company trying to elbow into any ounce of power/money it can get, with the 'art of gaming' being a long gone dream. In a way, I guess it is fitting that they changed their name, cause there is nothing artistic left anymore, but purely a soulless machine grinding for power/profit for the sake of power/profit.

That Bioware got sucked into this 'black hole' that EA have turned into really is saddening, cause I've enjoyed their games in the past.

To round off, I'll let 2 quotes do the talking and ask people to consider those quotes while contemplating wether they really DO want to support corporations that are pushing for the ability to break the human right of privacy, censorship, knowinlgy tries to make demands in their EULAS that are against the law in nations they want to use them in, and finally, throuhg SOPA, wants the ability to shut down any website they find offending without going to court:

"I hope we shall crush ... in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed
corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial
of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country", Thomas Jefferson.

"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth
of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their
democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism—ownership of
government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling
private power.", Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Edit: One more that, despite initially having been aimed towards a different segment, is neutral enough to apply anywhere: " As
we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government --
must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own
ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot
mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the
loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy
to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent
phantom of tomorrow.

", Dwight D. Eisenhower

Modifié par SalsaDMA, 25 novembre 2011 - 04:05 .

[Tarisch]

Still no answere? Com' on they could at least tell as that origins is needed or how do they want to make ME3 work with it... if ME3 only needs 1 registration, can we then remove Origins if registred? What about the DLCs and Origins? ect.

Dammit! Why can nobody tell use whats going on? Even "We dont know yet" would be better then this...

[DownyTif]

Unbannable wrote...

I just bought Batman Arkham City on EA Origins for 24.99.  As much as I hate EA, I couldn't ignore this great sale

I just got Batman Arkham Asylum + Arkham City (bundle) for 29$ at Walmart. No big deal

[McBeath]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

... Awaiting a counterpoint.

Look, I'm not trying to crap on anybodys freedom or thier perception of having thier privacy violated, because that is up to them as idividuals.  While I personally am not bothered by what EA has decided to do I will agree that they should be more clear about it... it seemed rather sneaky how they implimented it.

Like any business they have propsed a service with terms, and if enough people disagree with those terms they may change them... though this will probibly need to be financially motivated.

The only thing I take issue with is, and I quote: "Simply for the fact that they support Origin in its present state implies, a) they are not educated to what Origin is doing with their data, nor what they are agreeing too, they realize point a) but still choose to ignore it out of lack of will."

I understand the word educated as you have implied it, what I take offense to is the notion that if I understand thier terms but still decide to use that service I must have done so do to my lack of willpower... which implies that my morality and sence of privacy must be inferior to yours... or outright wrong. 

Otherwise I agree with much of what has been put forth in this thread and feel that such collection of data should be voluntary.  Again I'm not bothered by it in the least, but that doesn't mean others aren't and should be given the choice.

Cheers.  McBeath.

[Trekfanboy]

DownyTif wrote...

Unbannable wrote...

I just bought Batman Arkham City on EA Origins for 24.99.  As much as I hate EA, I couldn't ignore this great sale

I just got Batman Arkham Asylum + Arkham City (bundle) for 29$ at Walmart. No big deal

And I got it for FREE on Steam when I purchased a new Nvidia graphics card.

[Flamestalker-NL]

Tarisch wrote...

Still no answere? Com' on they could at least tell as that origins is needed or how do they want to make ME3 work with it... if ME3 only needs 1 registration, can we then remove Origins if registred? What about the DLCs and Origins? ect.

Dammit! Why can nobody tell use whats going on? Even "We dont know yet" would be better then this...

Maybe EA is still thinking about it. By not releasing any information they can keep all their option open without risking misinformation later.