3140 réponses à ce sujet

[SalsaDMA]

McBeath wrote...

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

... Awaiting a counterpoint.

Look, I'm not trying to crap on anybodys freedom or thier perception of having thier privacy violated, because that is up to them as idividuals.  While I personally am not bothered by what EA has decided to do I will agree that they should be more clear about it... it seemed rather sneaky how they implimented it.

Like any business they have propsed a service with terms, and if enough people disagree with those terms they may change them... though this will probibly need to be financially motivated.

The only thing I take issue with is, and I quote: "Simply for the fact that they support Origin in its present state implies, a) they are not educated to what Origin is doing with their data, nor what they are agreeing too, they realize point a) but still choose to ignore it out of lack of will."

I understand the word educated as you have implied it, what I take offense to is the notion that if I understand thier terms but still decide to use that service I must have done so do to my lack of willpower... which implies that my morality and sence of privacy must be inferior to yours... or outright wrong. 

Otherwise I agree with much of what has been put forth in this thread and feel that such collection of data should be voluntary.  Again I'm not bothered by it in the least, but that doesn't mean others aren't and should be given the choice.

Cheers.  McBeath.

While I can certainly understand you might feel offended by the statement, I do have to agree with it.

The problem is not as much damage done now and here by EA, but by the precedence and erosion of rights that it is.

Basicly, Origin + SOPA + implied threats towards consumers with the forum bans affecting game access means that wether you like it or not, EA has launched a multi-tiered attack on your rights as a consumer. The damage will not be seen immediately, but unless it is acted upon it WILL damage you in the future.
"Silence gives consent", after all. If you silently accept this kind of attack, then you agree to loosing your rights of privacy (corporations can snoop thorugh your files/trash/whatever to build a file on you) and in-ability to experience material that isn't brutally censored by corporations as they see fit (SOPA), and not to be able to speak your mind without constantly having to fear if what you are saying might be interpreted the wrong way and thus cost you your entire EA game library (unified acount bans, and combined with SOPA corporations can pretty much ensure that only their own forums are available).
If this is the kind of thing you want to accept, then yes, I WILL call you either un-educated or lacking of will.

Think of Eisenhowers quote and consider whether you really want to indulge in getting temporarily satisfaction now from a game, at the cost of your civil rights in the future?

Modifié par SalsaDMA, 25 novembre 2011 - 07:22 .

[PnXMarcin1PL]

^Ive got origin because I own BF3. I expect the same for Me3 (i hope im wrong).
I dont like them snooping around in my pc, but i download weekly a picture with midde finger pointed ( u know what i mean:devil:). I do it to show them they wont find anything in my pc. I wonder if Steam does the same thing as origin (spying). Im also considering to download sandboxie application to block origin spyware abilities.

Modifié par PnXMarcin1PL, 25 novembre 2011 - 07:44 .

[Tarisch]

Flamestalker-NL wrote...

Tarisch wrote...

Still no answere? Com' on they could at least tell as that origins is needed or how do they want to make ME3 work with it... if ME3 only needs 1 registration, can we then remove Origins if registred? What about the DLCs and Origins? ect.

Dammit! Why can nobody tell use whats going on? Even "We dont know yet" would be better then this...

Maybe EA is still thinking about it. By not releasing any information they can keep all their option open without risking misinformation later.

Yes, but nobody says: "Sry, guys, we dont know yet, still thinking." or "Yes, you need Origin, it works like this..." there is nothing, its more like they are ignoring use, witch is only sad.

[Killjoy Cutter]

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

I don't see what the big fuss it. I personally hate online game playing software.

Why is it so hard just to pop in a disc, and play the game. It can update itself, why do we need to download 3rd party client software that we don't need or want?

Dawn of War 2, and a bunch of other good games I just wanted to play offline, required I hook up to Steam and autopatch when my slow internet connection mtold me it would take a week to autopatch.

Steam, Origin, Stardock, the lot of them, what's the big Effin' deal?
Yeah, you need Origin, so what? If you're so butthurt it isn't on Steam, then don't buy ME3. 
Your choice on missing out on great games. It's just ridiculously fluffed online datastorage.

If you wanna play a game, pop in the disc and play the game, don't rage about how the game's 3rd party online service provider isn't what you want it to be.

That's like argueing your milk is 1% instead of 2%.

Hey, since you didn't bother to read the thread and educate yourself about the subject at hand, let's start with the repeatedly-stated fact that plenty of us won't use Steam or other spyware download software either. 

[SalsaDMA]

Ford_Prefect wrote...

Some other  "Why privacy matters" links I stumbled across reading things about the BF3/Origin debacle, especially in continental Europe.

https://www.privacyr...org/why-privacy

http://www.wired.com...s/2006/05/70886

All we can do is to vote with our wallets and make other people aware of this (e. g. comment sections of other popular websites, include a link, even if your comment should be semi off-topic it will reach enough people) so that they can come to a conclusion and make a decision based on the facts that are known like the EULA, TOS ...

March 2012 ... there is time left - let's use it!

Good links there

[CenturyCrow]

I don't really expect any 'word' from the EA marketing or legal sections anytime soon--like the DRM issue for DA 2. Likewise, the game EULA and TOS probably won't be available until around the time it goes on sale. Origin's EULA, TOS and Privacy Statement could easily change between now and release.

It's ironic that these 106 pages hold a wide spectrum of opinions concerning Origin. Free marketing information.  All they have to do is collect and collate from all the game forums dealing with Origin to get an overall view of what people think. Yet they tried to use or still intend to use subversive methods (i.e. scanning before the game is even installed).

Marketing everywhere is seamier and increasingly more invasive. Ars Technica has a recent article on malls tracking shopper's cell phones. Marketing goes to go to a lot of effort and cost. Aside from finding more ways to annoy consumers, exactly what data are they collecting and what purpose does it serve? Seeking the magic formula for another Call of Duty? Locating the stupid but rich consumers? The fact that a person buys and installs a game doesn't seem to be 'enough' for marketing, they still want more. If you contact support now, there's often a survey or questionaire after contacting support. All this indirect stuff, yet they are not interested in up-front opinions from users (positive or negative).

Admittedly the gaming market is huge, measured in billions now. However, a $60.00 video games isn't like a chocolate bar, immediately consumed. A good game will take hours or a week or even longer depending on the user. If the game has replayability like a lot developers seem to desire, the game owner isn't going to run out and buy some other game, (unless it's a prepainted version of COD).

I get the impression in large corporations, that the people driving the bus don't have a clue that there's a guy in the back seat with a map.

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 26 novembre 2011 - 01:52 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

You know, I wonder if an enterprising DA could make a name for himself by using anti-stalking and anti-harrassment laws to go after companies using trackware, data mining, cellphone tracking, etc...

[anzolino]

Some news on Origin: I've tested the latest Origin after the comments in the german magazine.
Version 8.3.7.3619 (download today) on XP:

- Origin crashes if the firewall is blocking the complete online connection, some of the connections (Akamai) can blocked but not all of them

- Setup.exe accesses all running program binaries during installation
- Setup.exe accesses the folder C:\\Documents and Settings\\[username] + All Users.WINDOWS\\My Music + My Images

- Origin.exe still accesses the Internet Explorer Cache, History and Cookies
- Origin.exe now only accesses C:\\Documents and Settings\\All Users.WINDOWS\\Application Data\\Origin


Edit:
We protest against Origin since August. EA has changed the EULA of Origin 3 times. After 4 weeks really heavy public protest in Germany (gamers, magazines, lawyers) and data protectors attention, after that and not till then EA has changed the software.
No, this is not the way to restore my confidence. I don't want to check every single Origin update.

I'm glad for the people who do not care any more because of the changes. But:
My opinion is clear: EA doesn't have any respect for the customers.
My decision is clear as well: I will not buy any game that requires Origin installation. I do not need this kind of disregard.
Sorry, Bioware.

Modifié par anzolino, 26 novembre 2011 - 01:19 .

[Unbannable]

Although I don't like some aspects of EA's excessive policies regarding forum bans, I must say all of this Origins bashing is getting pretty ridiculous.

A lot of people bashing Origins as being spyware simply have no idea about sysinternals tools. Origins is no more intrusive than Steam is. In fact, I'd say it's less intrusive. Origins allows you to play your game completely offline, without the service even running.. Steam on the other hand, has to be running when you start a game, whether offline or not..

[FoxShadowblade]

DownyTif wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...

Person 1: Origin sucks!
Person 2: I agree!
Person 3: I don't mind it, because I don't know what it is.
Person 1 & 2 [Verbally Punch Person 3, Exit Stage Left]
[Fade to black]

I love this thread.

Thread crashers that come in this thread with no argument, but just empty sentences (oh wait, you just did that) or come to insult people calling them names should just read and not comment. On the other hand, an Origin fanboy, an Origin user, an Origin defender or anybody that has an opinion on the subject is MOST than welcome if he has something to discuss.

So I invite you to state your opinion on the matter and argue if you feel like it's worth your time.

Or hey, I could just come on, state that I love the thread and insinuate that I lurk it reading the hilarious arguments thrown back and forth. Then you could be a humorless forum poster and strike back in the name of teh seriouz treads. And then, as dictated, I will reply a humor post showing that I do not really care and that I do not really have anything better to do at this moment.

My opinion doesn't matter, not here. And you wouldn't like my opinion, probably because I would present it in such a fashion that implies I am the man stealing your identity, downloading illegal music, and single-handedly bankrupting the film industry. While also implying that there may be a skull and crossbones flying above my computer, and that my speakers fire cannonballs. Hmm, it seems I've revealed my opinion. 

Be afraid, be very afraid.

[RiouHotaru]

anzolino wrote...

Some news on Origin: I've tested the latest Origin after the comments in the german magazine.
Version 8.3.7.3619 (download today) on XP:

- Origin crashes if the firewall is blocking the complete online connection, some of the connections (Akamai) can blocked but not all of them

- Setup.exe accesses all running program binaries during installation
- Setup.exe accesses the folder C:Documents and Settings[username] + All Users.WINDOWSMy Music + My Images

- Origin.exe still accesses the Internet Explorer Cache, History and Cookies
- Origin.exe now only accesses C:Documents and SettingsAll Users.WINDOWSApplication DataOrigin

...Interesting, but what if you don't use Internet Explorer?  Also, are those the ONLY things it accesses?

[Raygereio]

Unbannable wrote...
A lot of people bashing Origins as being spyware simply have no idea about sysinternals tools. Origins is no more intrusive than Steam is. In fact, I'd say it's less intrusive.

If you're so knowledgeable on such tools, why don't you then provide even the slightest bit of evidence that Steam is looking at files on your harddrive that it has no business looking at without permission from you?

Mind you, personally I'm not condemming Origin as spyware just yet. I'm holding the option open that Origin was programmed by incredibly incompetent monkeys who did their job by flinging their poo at their keyboards.
Given Origin is just a continuation of the EA download manager, I'd say that's not a unrealistic option.

Modifié par Raygereio, 26 novembre 2011 - 10:36 .

[anzolino]

RiouHotaru wrote...
...Interesting, but what if you don't use Internet Explorer? Also, are those the ONLY things it accesses?

If you don't use the Internet Explorer (like me) it simply scans the wrong folder? I don't know what this is scanned for. Maybe some EA dev can explain this to us. What I know is: IE cookies, history and cache are not EA business outside the web and outside the browser. IE security options like zone is located in the registry and Origin is searching the registry for these values.

Yes, on XP those are the only things it accesses which seemed some of unusually. Despite of this it accesses system fonts, Windows DLLs, sound mapper, graphic stuff, TCP services etc. - some stuff for game and connection base. I don't know all keys in the registry it accesses too, there were certs, internet and connections, graphic settings etc. but not other installed programs like the older version has scanned in registry and file system.

Ok, it crashes if your firewall blocks the internet connection. This is bad because it means you cannot play offline? I don't know if the game would start in this case. I have no game installed that requires Origin, I've only tested the client and not the client and the game. But I read the complaints that BF3 would not start with the last Origin changes.

@Unbannable: A Clever one, uh? Then you can answer the big question for me: If I can play the game without the service why am I forced to install the service at all? This is pretty ridiculous, don't you think?
I don't have Steam and I don't use Steam and I don't care about what Steam does! These comparisons are so annoying.
Do you see something like Steam in the topic? NO. There is only Origin and ME3.

Modifié par anzolino, 26 novembre 2011 - 03:15 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Unbannable wrote...

Although I don't like some aspects of EA's excessive policies regarding forum bans, I must say all of this Origins bashing is getting pretty ridiculous.

A lot of people bashing Origins as being spyware simply have no idea about sysinternals tools. Origins is no more intrusive than Steam is. In fact, I'd say it's less intrusive. Origins allows you to play your game completely offline, without the service even running.. Steam on the other hand, has to be running when you start a game, whether offline or not..

And if this were a thread about the ways in which Steam is bad software, intrusive, and completely useless to the actual customer, then you'd have a point.

[Killjoy Cutter]

anzolino wrote...

Some news on Origin: I've tested the latest Origin after the comments in the german magazine.
Version 8.3.7.3619 (download today) on XP:

- Origin crashes if the firewall is blocking the complete online connection, some of the connections (Akamai) can blocked but not all of them

- Setup.exe accesses all running program binaries during installation
- Setup.exe accesses the folder C:Documents and Settings[username] + All Users.WINDOWSMy Music + My Images

- Origin.exe still accesses the Internet Explorer Cache, History and Cookies
- Origin.exe now only accesses C:Documents and SettingsAll Users.WINDOWSApplication DataOrigin

There's simply no reason for any game or download manager to access or even look in the direction of any of that information, at install or otherwise (other than the access of its own app data obviously.)

Of course, what's really funny about the firewall block causing Origin to crash is that it will probably crash every time the firewall stops it long enough to ask if it's OK to allow Origin to access the internet -- meaning that most people with a firewall installed will just get a lot of crashes. 

[CenturyCrow]

anzolino wrote...
Some news on Origin: I've tested the latest Origin after the comments in the german magazine.
Version 8.3.7.3619 (download today) on XP:
- Origin crashes if the firewall is blocking the complete online connection, some of the connections (Akamai) can blocked but not all of them

Thanks for checking that out and posting the results.

[Snelle Jaap]

Dark Pendora wrote...

I pre ordered the CE retail, i will wait till about a month before release for a definite conformation about origin, if its required, cancel pre order, if it isnt then happy me.

Same here.

[Unbannable]

Raygereio wrote...

If you're so knowledgeable on such tools, why don't you then provide even the slightest bit of evidence that Steam is looking at files on your harddrive that it has no business looking at without permission from you?

You mean evidence like this?



There's a difference between scanning and reading.  Steam isn't really reading the contents of that guy's external drive.  It's merely scanning it for games and Origins does the same exact thing.

Modifié par Unbannable, 27 novembre 2011 - 08:50 .

[Unbannable]

anzolino wrote...

@Unbannable: A Clever one, uh? Then you can answer the big question for me: If I can play the game without the service why am I forced to install the service at all? This is pretty ridiculous, don't you think?

Um, who's forcing you to install the service?  Also, to answer your question, Origins is a digital distribution platform, DRM solution, and online game network/communication service all rolled into one.  Anyone looking to play or purchase games on the internet requires that they use such a service.

I don't have Steam and I don't use Steam and I don't care about what Steam does! These comparisons are so annoying.
Do you see something like Steam in the topic? NO. There is only Origin and ME3.

The reason why I bring up Steam, is because a lot of people give Steam a carte blanche, while doing the exact opposite for EA Origins although it performs the same exact function as Steam.

[CenturyCrow]

Unbannable wrote...

anzolino wrote...
@Unbannable: A Clever one, uh? Then you can answer the big question for me: If I can play the game without the service why am I forced to install the service at all? This is pretty ridiculous, don't you think?

Um, who's forcing you to install the service?  Also, to answer your question, Origins is a digital distribution platform, DRM solution, and online game network/communication service all rolled into one.  Anyone looking to play or purchase games on the internet requires that they use such a service.

Apparently Origin is mandatory for BF3 whether you download or use retail. No Origin, NO BF3; plus no opt out on the scanning. According to EA's website:

For Battlefield 3 on PC, you’ll need the latest version of Origin

BF 3 is primarily a multiplayer online game. ME and ME 2 are single player games; ME 3 adds multiplayer.

So arises the topic - Origin will be required to play ME3? 

Particularly for someone like myself. I played ME1 and ME2 as single player and would like to continue ME3 as single player. To use your phrasing, Will I be forced to install the Origin Service? And will I be forced to disagree with the EULA, TOS and privacy statement. Or choose the alternate, ignore EA games?

And no, I don't want to play or purchase games on the internet. IF I purchase the game, it will be retail. No thanks on the DRM via Origin either. And I don't particularly see a need to socialize while playing a single player game.

I expect that users will be forced to use Origin for any ME 3 DLC, which will automatically exclude me from considering DLC.

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 27 novembre 2011 - 10:04 .

[anzolino]

Unbannable wrote...
Um, who's forcing you to install the service?

Informations to Mass Effect 3 product EULA on EA website:

INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED FOR PRODUCT ACTIVATION. INTERNET CONNECTION, EA/ORIGIN ACCOUNT, ACCEPTANCE OF PRODUCT AND ORIGIN END USER LICENSE AGREEMENTS, INSTALLATION OF THE ORIGIN CLIENT SOFTWARE (WWW.ORIGIN.COM/ABOUT) AND REGISTRATION WITH ENCLOSED SINGLE-USE SERIAL CODE(S) REQUIRED TO PLAY,

Can you see? EA is forcing me to install Origin, for the retail version - no difference between digital and retail/hard copy.

Also, to answer your question, Origins is a digital distribution platform, DRM solution, and online game network/communication service all rolled into one. Anyone looking to play or purchase games on the internet requires that they use such a service.

For your information: It's not called Origins, it's called Origin. I know what Origin is. You don't have to explain that to me.
I don't buy digital game versions on the internet and I don't play online games. So what? I don't need such a service. I'm a simple single player like many other people here. There is no need for such a service. So, you didn't answer the question for me. Too bad, I thought someone would know at least.

For your Steam obsession:
Some of us has recorded what Steam does and we compared the activities of both clients, of course. There were a lot of differences at the first time, Origin did exact the opposite of Steam client, exactly what the EULA said. And then the EULA was changed and not till the last changes (this week) EA brings Origin into a line with Steam.
//End of line for Steam obsession
I'm not willing to discuss a software I'm not using.

Now the Origin Setup.exe accesses "My Music" | "My Images" and running programs; Origin accesses the IE folders and there is no Opt-Out to deny sharing private data. People want to decide sharing data by their own and not by force, because it is their right to decide voluntary. It is not EAs right to force them.

It's funny, you are the first declaring that Steam is the devils client and Origin is the angels client. For me both clients are no-need and forced-install clients and I won't buy any game that requires one of them. Many other people out there are thinking like me and the publisher has to decide if losing our money is it worth. (I'm not sure about it if I see the recently movements of Ubisoft.)
At first I thought you're one of EAs people, but you cannot answer the big question. So, this cannot be, I hope, otherwise something else would be wrong.

[Bogsnot1]

Unbannable wrote...
Um, who's forcing you to install the service?  Also, to answer your question, Origins is a digital distribution platform, DRM solution, and online game network/communication service all rolled into one.  Anyone looking to play or purchase games on the internet requires that they use such a service.

There is a post earlier in this thread which quotes the devs as saying Origin is not supopsed to be any form of DRM, and is merely a DD service. That being the case, why should purchasers of the physical copy of the game have it shoved down their throats?

[OperativeX]

I'm pretty sure its coz EA have Bioware under their thumb and EA are liars. They want to scan our personal preferences and find out our habits so that they can pass that info onto advertisers who will exploit such info to get us to buy more of their products. They will splash adds on our web pages specifically engineered to our personal preferences. In turn, the advertisers pay EA large sums of money.

Its almost as bad as the old 'eat popcorn' subliminal messaging ads they used to flash on the screens of movie theatres before a show. Which were eventually banned for violating the rules. Forcing Origin on us needs to be banned too.

Modifié par OperativeX, 27 novembre 2011 - 12:56 .

[Unbannable]

CenturyCrow wrote...

Apparently Origin is mandatory for BF3 whether you download or use retail. No Origin, NO BF3; plus no opt out on the scanning. According to EA's website:

Yeah, and I wonder why that is?  Could it be because BF3 is an online shooter?

For Battlefield 3 on PC, you’ll need the latest version of Origin

BF 3 is primarily a multiplayer online game. ME and ME 2 are single player games; ME 3 adds multiplayer.

[b]So arises the topic - Origin will be required to play ME3?

It may be that because ME3 has an multiplayer component, Origin may be required for those wanting to play online with other people..

And there's nothing wrong with that.  It would be nice if EA specificed that Origin would not be required for those wishing to play the single player campaign only though.

And no, I don't want to play or purchase games on the internet. IF I purchase the game, it will be retail. No thanks on the DRM via Origin either. And I don't particularly see a need to socialize while playing a single player game.

I may have been mistaken about the Origin DRM.  I don't think Origin even has innate DRM capabilities unline Steam, because you can shut it off completely and it's not required during gaming.....unless you're playing BF3 or another online game.

I expect that users will be forced to use Origin for any ME 3 DLC, which will automatically exclude me from considering DLC.

You need an EA/Origin account to download DLC, so what difference does it make?