3140 réponses à ce sujet

[ZLurps]

Adugan wrote...

Lumi, pirating is a way of life. If people CAN get it for free, they will. Origin will not be the sole reason for piracy increase, but if pirates make it SOOO easy to get the game without Origarbage, then people will. Pirates will always pirate, because why would you spend money on a product that treats you like cattle and violates your privacy when you can spend 5 minutes of your time and have it for free?

While I think you are right about piracy being a way of life, that doesn't apply to everyone out there. Do we even know if that crowd is that interested about playing games but just obsessed to have everything they possibly can?

When things goes as far as snooping around customers browsing history, what they have in their personal files etc. it really makes people ask if this has anything to do with piracy at all. How the hell it prevents fighting piracy to have information about what is in personal files folders? So there is 2010-02-10-2355.jpg and numerous others, or my GF boobies.jpg what the **** EA is gaining about those to fight piracy?

There are other (probably marginal) issues. I used to think that it's ridiculous to deny people playing games in offices after work hours playing games... but what this look likes, I'm going to make sure that this kind of products wont be installed in any workstations and I'm going to advice freelances about the nature of this kind of software too.

The situation is getting pretty weird. Paying customer is spending time with CD-key's, and online registrations. Have constant Internet connection (well, this I don't know if this is a big problem at these days, unless your're on mobile rig) and have all thise crap running background when they play the game.
Pirate, well, pirate installs the game and plays it. While piracy is harming the industry and rampant piracy would kill studios, at short shight, pirates get a clearly suprerior experience, no worries at all and paying customer becomes a moron.

I read posts in this thread about how this kind of DRM or whatever encourages piracy but I don't know if it is really that simple at all. There are other things in life than games and at some point customers just get tired of all the crap and start to spent their time with movies, Facebook games and other things that are just much less hassle.

If this trend contines I don't know if consoles are going to be a saving grace for publishers, because for me it looks like modern consoles are showing all kind of problems (including security) they were originally supposed to free people.

I wouldn't be surprised if things turned out to something like families buying consoles like there were some sort of craze to buy bread baking machines in the 80's, everyone bought them because neighbour had one too, but praticially nobody used them. It was all good for those who made bread baking machines as long it lasted, but it isn't very bright future for your business if you sell consoles at loss and profit is supposed to come from games.

Modifié par ZLurps, 28 novembre 2011 - 09:43 .

[Lumikki]

Wittand25 wrote...

anzolino wrote...
EA declares the gathering of personally data. Did you not read the Origin EULA, TOS and Privacy Policy? CenturyCrow already mentioned it. I don't have to prove it. It's a fact and the type of data is explained in these documents. You should read this stuff sometimes. Wait, actually you have to read it because all these documents are part of your agreement, the conditions for playing an EA game (despite the game EULA itself). You really didn't read these tons of sites? Who had thought.

Personal Data is only collected by customer input if you have missed that part.
So yes EA does store personal information like your email-adress, phone number, name, credit card number and so on if you give this information to them (sometimes revealing this information will be mandatory). You will always know all the personal information they have because you need to type it in yourself directly or indirectly (linking your account to a facebook acount or similar).
They also save other non personal information that you are willing to give them (sex, age, ...) yourself and non personal information that gets collected automatically (which EA games you own, how often do you replay a certain game, what is your favorite morality/romance/crew mate ....). And even for that kind of information there is an option to disable that feedback as can be seen in the demo leak.

You seem to talk about games and account options. We are talking Origin clients options and behavior. You can't even play single player game what has origin client, without using origin client, even if you buy hard copy from store.

We aren't here fighting agaist EA having digital distribution software, it has it's users and place. We are fighting our freedom to make our own choices as how we want to play games and what information we want to give to game companies.  Origin client software doesn't give us that freedom, it doesn't give us any choise at all.

Modifié par Lumikki, 28 novembre 2011 - 10:02 .

[Ravenmyste]

charmingcharlie wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...
There's no need for intrusive software like this on PC either but EA does it anyway<_<

The funny thing is that Neurotics doesn't realise that the type of stuff Origin does is EMBEDDED into his Xbox 360 already.  If you use an Xbox you can bet your life Microsoft know everything about how you use their console (same goes for the PS3).  

But this topic isn't about rubbish like that and I am sure Neurotics didn't come in here to troll .  Hopefully we won't have to wait too long for this "faq" I mean there is only one question we need answering and that is "Does Mass Effect 3 use Origin ?".

not true actually if you dont have the xbox connected to the internet and dont update the games that is included in those patches the game is more or less untraceable and orgin wouldnt be able to send data if you play offline on pc too thats not connected to any networks and has zero chance of sending anything to ea regardless there are ways around things that common sense can see that if you buy a ea game you can decide if you will be playing offline for the entire time of that game life to you{some of us gamers console and pc players don't play on a connected computers or consoles}

so there really no way that ea can get any information unless of course you believe they have tiny men in there games that theyre building to rummage thru you files and collect you paper information that you have in you file cabinets and then run to ea to give them the information that you desried to keep from them.. they yes you are totally screwed

[SalsaDMA]

Ravenmyste wrote...

charmingcharlie wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...
There's no need for intrusive software like this on PC either but EA does it anyway<_<

The funny thing is that Neurotics doesn't realise that the type of stuff Origin does is EMBEDDED into his Xbox 360 already.  If you use an Xbox you can bet your life Microsoft know everything about how you use their console (same goes for the PS3).  

But this topic isn't about rubbish like that and I am sure Neurotics didn't come in here to troll .  Hopefully we won't have to wait too long for this "faq" I mean there is only one question we need answering and that is "Does Mass Effect 3 use Origin ?".

not true actually if you dont have the xbox connected to the internet and dont update the games that is included in those patches the game is more or less untraceable and orgin wouldnt be able to send data if you play offline on pc too thats not connected to any networks and has zero chance of sending anything to ea regardless there are ways around things that common sense can see that if you buy a ea game you can decide if you will be playing offline for the entire time of that game life to you{some of us gamers console and pc players don't play on a connected computers or consoles}

so there really no way that ea can get any information unless of course you believe they have tiny men in there games that theyre building to rummage thru you files and collect you paper information that you have in you file cabinets and then run to ea to give them the information that you desried to keep from them.. they yes you are totally screwed

So how are you gonna start up your game without having connected to the net, given that access to an online connection is quite clearly stated as a requirement?

You're planning on taking those tiny men and make them do the stuff for you so you can play the game to start with? <_<

Could people stop pretending that EA are complete and utter morons in software design and start accepting that random poster #57453 isn't going to come up with a scheme in 5 seconds of disjointed thought which will negate months (or years) of planning by EA to push big into the infomation selling market?

The only way to prevent Origin from doing in the end is to just not install it. Even if somebody manages technical solutions (like the bf3 crack that allowed people to circumvent origin) I dare say EA will put their own teams to work in battling such incidents through legislations and forced updates.

[SalsaDMA]

RoseLegion wrote...

 I have a suggestion for anyone who's been following this thread (or indeed for any gamer generally), let's make "who published it?" our new first question regarding any game.  Supporting a company in the current market is often not just about supporting a dev studio so looking at the whole picture makes sense and if the publisher of a game isn't someone who's business practices and/or customer support is something you want to support then why should you?  For myself I will be asking "who published it?" of any new game that is recommended to me or that catches my eye, and I will be providing the information 'who published it' along with every game recommendation I make going forward.  People deserve to know what they're paying for before they spend their hard earned money (even more so in the current global economic climate) and that means the whole experience that they're spending their money on, not just the most sought after aspect of it (formerly just known as "the game" or "the product" and once upon a time not treated as a mere aspect of the service being purchased).

I've been doing that to some extent for a while now.
I already got Ubisoft and Blizzard Activision on my list of 'no go'.
Didn't bother me much with Ubisoft, tbh, as I never considered them much outside the assassins creed series.
Blizzard I was saddened by, as I enjoyed both starcraft and Diablo 1+2. Friends told me how awesome Starcraft2 was, but I didn't care to get it with the politics of Blizzard Activision. Same thing will happen with Diablo3 I guess, as I have friends thta will buy it while I wouldn't dream of getting it with the politics in place still by Blizzard.

Also, I just realised last night that I had started to take a somewhat similar approach to EA already :-/
I saw Deadspace2 on sale, and had enjoyed the original deadpsace somewhat, so was tempted by it. When I reached the line that mentioned DRM, though, I sort of had a snap-moment where I started wondering wether they would have incorporated Origin in it or might do so in the future (not to mention that I just don't like the actual DRM that was clearly stated on the info). The fact that I even started making those thoughts made me realize I didn't really want to support the company, even through a sale, given its current political inclinations, so I didn't purchase the game.

I moved from FIFA manager to the FM series by a competitor as well, despite EAs series having superior match graphics.

[Nathander Von Eric]

I'm in the same boat SalsaDMA.

Ubisoft and Activision/Blizzard won't see a dime of my money because of their DRM.

I've got a good stable internet connection -now-. But if my provider goes down or out of business I'm left with a product I can no longer use. And many people in rural area's simply do not have access to high speed internet.

I will not support their business decision in regards to their DRM.

I made up my mind long ago that I wouldn't support EA (And giving up Madden NFL Football games was hard to do ) because of shady business practices that I did not agree with.

But when Bioware went to them I changed my mind. "Only the Bioware games." I said to myself.
I made that decision because I loved Bioware games and they seem like a great company.

If Origin is required for Bioware games in the future I'll have to make the decision to pass on them.

Sure I can afford to put together a PC that is only used for gaming. But it's the principle of the thing eh?

I refuse to support a company that engages in business practices that go against the grain of what I feel is right.

Call me old fashioned but I feel that a company has to work to please me in order to earn my money and support. It's not that I feel entitled to anything. It's because I work hard for my money and earn an honest living. Morals and ethics mean a lot to me in real life.

If EA/Bioware can prove to me that Origin isn't as shady as it seems I'll revise my judgment and consider changing my mind.

[Skullheart]

You know... im buying a new HDD just to play ME3 and BF3 (even if its a b#tch connecting and disconnecting both hdd every single time I want to use my original disk).

[ZLurps]

Skullheart wrote...

You know... im buying a new HDD just to play ME3 and BF3 (even if its a b#tch connecting and disconnecting both hdd every single time I want to use my original disk).

Hey... I assume you are speaking about PC? If you have external SATA port you install OS on that and then choose from BIOS if you start from external SATA disk or from internal drive. Then set security settings so, that external one doesn't have any access to files on internal disk... Could it really be just that easy?

Modifié par ZLurps, 28 novembre 2011 - 01:52 .

[FieryDove]

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

I'm in the same boat SalsaDMA.

Ubisoft and Activision/Blizzard won't see a dime of my money because of their DRM.

We are all pirates anyhow...

"because we know that 95 per cent of our consumers will pirate the game"

http://www.eurogamer...e-soldier-on-pc


I would really love to know if Origins is needed on ME3 retail copies...please? Anyone?

[SalsaDMA]

FieryDove wrote...

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

I'm in the same boat SalsaDMA.

Ubisoft and Activision/Blizzard won't see a dime of my money because of their DRM.

We are all pirates anyhow...

"because we know that 95 per cent of our consumers will pirate the game"

http://www.eurogamer...e-soldier-on-pc


I would really love to know if Origins is needed on ME3 retail copies...please? Anyone?

lol. Ubisoft really seems intent on killing whatever is left of their market presence in pc-gaming...

For Biowares sake, I hope EA will realize their error before they turn into the next Ubisoft...

[ZLurps]

FieryDove wrote...

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

I'm in the same boat SalsaDMA.

Ubisoft and Activision/Blizzard won't see a dime of my money because of their DRM.

We are all pirates anyhow...

"because we know that 95 per cent of our consumers will pirate the game"

http://www.eurogamer...e-soldier-on-pc


I would really love to know if Origins is needed on ME3 retail copies...please? Anyone?

Though question but what comes to piracy, I don't know system going as deep as Origin actually have anything to do with piracy anymore.

Other reason:
Gathering data
 - Getting PC specs, amount of RAM, video RAM, Operating system (DirectX version) level of detail player uses can be useful to get average of requirements at the moment and once you have enough data from long enough time period you may also be able to predict what kind of hardware people are using on 2014 when next AAA title is planned to be released. Lot's of different product family specific things can be useful as well.

 - Internet history, what kind of products, from publishers stand point games, customer is interested about. How many customers visited Activision or EA or whatever website after adverticing campaign, how many customers were interested about title XYZ after CES.
Also : Lot's of data about what kind of Internet services people are interested about, what they look and shop from web-shops... If you can gather enough information, someone sure as hell want to buy it.

 - Processes... X many number of those who bought title XYZ have brand ABC printer and brand QWE camera. However those who bought title ZZZ have brand QQQ printer and don't look like they have camera, they have smartphone with camera instead. etc.. I guess this could be sold and might be useful internally as well when planning marketting campaigns.

There are other things, but I won't go into those at least for now.

[billy the squid]

SalsaDMA wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

I'm in the same boat SalsaDMA.

Ubisoft and Activision/Blizzard won't see a dime of my money because of their DRM.

We are all pirates anyhow...

"because we know that 95 per cent of our consumers will pirate the game"

http://www.eurogamer...e-soldier-on-pc


I would really love to know if Origins is needed on ME3 retail copies...please? Anyone?

lol. Ubisoft really seems intent on killing whatever is left of their market presence in pc-gaming...

For Biowares sake, I hope EA will realize their error before they turn into the next Ubisoft...

Ubisoft's set themselves up for a fall with their business plan and poor product quality. Inevitably they underestimated the consumer mass market in PCs, the worm has turned and is now packing a fukin' uzi.

Modifié par billy the squid, 28 novembre 2011 - 03:15 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

SalsaDMA wrote...

MassStorm wrote...

 It is EA right to do so since the game is produced by them.

That's a fallacious statement if I ever saw one...

You can ask Microsoft if they had the right to force IE on users installing windows, or if they were forced to split up the connection

Excellent point.

[Killjoy Cutter]

ZLurps wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

I'm in the same boat SalsaDMA.

Ubisoft and Activision/Blizzard won't see a dime of my money because of their DRM.

We are all pirates anyhow...

"because we know that 95 per cent of our consumers will pirate the game"

http://www.eurogamer...e-soldier-on-pc


I would really love to know if Origins is needed on ME3 retail copies...please? Anyone?

Though question but what comes to piracy, I don't know system going as deep as Origin actually have anything to do with piracy anymore.

Other reason:
Gathering data
 - Getting PC specs, amount of RAM, video RAM, Operating system (DirectX version) level of detail player uses can be useful to get average of requirements at the moment and once you have enough data from long enough time period you may also be able to predict what kind of hardware people are using on 2014 when next AAA title is planned to be released. Lot's of different product family specific things can be useful as well.

 - Internet history, what kind of products, from publishers stand point games, customer is interested about. How many customers visited Activision or EA or whatever website after adverticing campaign, how many customers were interested about title XYZ after CES.
Also : Lot's of data about what kind of Internet services people are interested about, what they look and shop from web-shops... If you can gather enough information, someone sure as hell want to buy it.

 - Processes... X many number of those who bought title XYZ have brand ABC printer and brand QWE camera. However those who bought title ZZZ have brand QQQ printer and don't look like they have camera, they have smartphone with camera instead. etc.. I guess this could be sold and might be useful internally as well when planning marketting campaigns.

There are other things, but I won't go into those at least for now.

And?  They have no right to that information, and no right to make the purchase and use of a product contigent on the customer providing that information.

[ZLurps]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

I'm in the same boat SalsaDMA.

Ubisoft and Activision/Blizzard won't see a dime of my money because of their DRM.

We are all pirates anyhow...

"because we know that 95 per cent of our consumers will pirate the game"

http://www.eurogamer...e-soldier-on-pc


I would really love to know if Origins is needed on ME3 retail copies...please? Anyone?

Though question but what comes to piracy, I don't know system going as deep as Origin actually have anything to do with piracy anymore.

Other reason:
Gathering data
 - Getting PC specs, amount of RAM, video RAM, Operating system (DirectX version) level of detail player uses can be useful to get average of requirements at the moment and once you have enough data from long enough time period you may also be able to predict what kind of hardware people are using on 2014 when next AAA title is planned to be released. Lot's of different product family specific things can be useful as well.

 - Internet history, what kind of products, from publishers stand point games, customer is interested about. How many customers visited Activision or EA or whatever website after adverticing campaign, how many customers were interested about title XYZ after CES.
Also : Lot's of data about what kind of Internet services people are interested about, what they look and shop from web-shops... If you can gather enough information, someone sure as hell want to buy it.

 - Processes... X many number of those who bought title XYZ have brand ABC printer and brand QWE camera. However those who bought title ZZZ have brand QQQ printer and don't look like they have camera, they have smartphone with camera instead. etc.. I guess this could be sold and might be useful internally as well when planning marketting campaigns.

There are other things, but I won't go into those at least for now.

And?  They have no right to that information, and no right to make the purchase and use of a product contigent on the customer providing that information.

What do you think "Service requests from third party service providers on our site" means?

[FieryDove]

billy the squid wrote...

Ubisoft's set themselves up for a fall with their business plan and poor product quality. Inevitably they underestimated the consumer mass market in PCs, the worm has turned and is now packing a fukin' uzi.

Well just stop um...moaning about it already will ya.

It seems we need boots reading anything official like this anymore...maybe waders.

“We’ve heard loud and clear that PC gamers are *edited out* about there being no version for them,” creative director Stanislas Mettra told IncGamers. “But are these people just making noise just because there’s no version or because it’s a game they actually want to play? Would they buy it if we made it?”

http://www.pcgamer.c...s-not-worth-it/

[CenturyCrow]

FieryDove wrote...
I would really love to know if Origins is needed on ME3 retail copies...please? Anyone?

I don't see where anyone has answered your question.
And now might be a good time to start consolidating a list of questions

BioWare has not yet informed us if Origin will be mandatory for ME 3 retail copies, see page 1

Chris Priestly wrote...
You are welcome to continue to discuss this topic until we can give you clarification on the issue.

There are secondary questions associated with it:
Will Origin be mandatory for single player?
Will Origin be mandatory for multiplayer?
Will Origin be mandatory for in-game content DLC, such as what's on the Collector's Edition?
Will Origin be mandatory for any other DLC?
Does Origin act as DRM? (If not, then we can legally circumvent it, i.e. Sandboxie, etc)
If Origin isn't DRM, what form of DRM will be use in ME 3 retail?

[SalsaDMA]

Interesting thread I stumbled upon: http://forums.electr...y-unsecure.html

People reporting they got logged into wrong acounts on not only battlelog, but also Origin...

Allow me to do a giant facepalm at the security issues implied by this...

Things like this just make me all warm and fuzzy towards EA's policies against users...
(note, that was an ironic statement, btw.)

[FieryDove]

CenturyCrow wrote...

FieryDove wrote...
I would really love to know if Origins is needed on ME3 retail copies...please? Anyone?

I don't see where anyone has answered your question.
And now might be a good time to start consolidating a list of questions

BioWare has not yet informed us if Origin will be mandatory for ME 3 retail copies, see page 1

Chris Priestly wrote...
You are welcome to continue to discuss this topic until we can give you clarification on the issue.

There are secondary questions associated with it:
Will Origin be mandatory for single player?
Will Origin be mandatory for multiplayer?
Will Origin be mandatory for in-game content DLC, such as what's on the Collector's Edition?
Will Origin be mandatory for any other DLC?
Does Origin act as DRM? (If not, then we can legally circumvent it, i.e. Sandboxie, etc)
If Origin isn't DRM, what form of DRM will be use in ME 3 retail?

I would love answers to all these. It's right now that I'm doing my holiday shopping...I don't wait till last minute. It's sort of need info soon (Like yesterday).

[Tarisch]

some questions i would like to know the answers too. i dont know if i should buy the N7 Edition or not... or if i should by ME3 at all:unsure:

Modifié par Tarisch, 28 novembre 2011 - 10:54 .

[anzolino]

@ZLurps, IE isn't my default browser, that makes accessing of IE folder some kind of ... I don't know.

SalsaDMA wrote...
Interesting thread I stumbled upon: http://forums.electr...y-unsecure.html

People reporting they got logged into wrong acounts on not only battlelog, but also Origin...

Allow me to do a giant facepalm at the security issues implied by this...

Things like this just make me all warm and fuzzy towards EA's policies against users...
(note, that was an ironic statement, btw.)

Salsa, but we have to blame these guys on the forum, because... the EA's policies... LOL:

You are responsible for all actions that occur in connection with the Origin Account (formerly called “EA Account”) you use to register and log into this Application. You agree to notify EA immediately of any unauthorized use of your Origin or EA Account or breach in security known to you related to the Application.

No, it's not EA's fault.
One of the guys wrote, the problem exists for months? Immediately reaction on a security issue? Isn't solved yet! Great.

Here we go next on the policies:

EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly.

Really carefully. I believe this blindly. Login into another account isn't sharing? Getting informations about the other account isn't sharing? My male Paragon Shep is a female Renegade Shep on the next login? That would be funny. I would love to see my face at this moment.

Security breaches. At least two giant triple facepalms! I cannot believe this.

[Killjoy Cutter]

ZLurps wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

And?  They have no right to that information, and no right to make the purchase and use of a product contigent on the customer providing that information.

What do you think "Service requests from third party service providers on our site" means?

I know what it means, I know what they want. 

That does not mean they have the right to get what they want.

[Eradyn]

I was going to come in and ask if Origin had been improved or if people had shown it was no longer performing as intrusively...then I saw that whole "logging into your account but it isn't your account" link and...yeah. *facepalm*

BW, please, if you have any leverage against EA, for the love of gaming use it to keep Origin from being mandatory for retail copies at least. If you care at all at this point. I don't even know; I don't have the energy left to get angry. It will be what it will be and I'll either get the game or I won't. I'd like to. But at the rate Origin is going, I don't know if that's going to happen. =/

[InvincibleHero]

Lumikki wrote...

2. Make Origin client voluntary product. Don't force people to use it, who don't have need for it.  Let people who likes it to use it. There is benefit in both directions. We customers aren't all same, we have different priorities and values, what affects our choices. Some people loves digital distribution center and some hate them. Not everyone is ready for them, so don't force the issue to your customers, let your customers choose the way they like.

Freedom is all about persons ability make their own choices.

Are you requesting the same of Valve? I have no problem with EA requiring Origin. My problem is if it goes too far then I will not buy their games that require it. I do not have steam nor will purchase/use any games like Fallout NV that need it despite being offline games. Seriously you have no inherent right to buy or play ME3 or any game EA makes. You have to accept their terms so get that little thought in your head. That's reality. You buy a toaster or anything you have to accept the manufacturer's terms or not buy it. Same deal here.

[CenturyCrow]

InvincibleHero wrote...
Seriously you have no inherent right to buy or play ME3 or any game EA makes.

I don't understand that statement at all or has EA stopped publishing games or are they giving them away?

InvincibleHero wrote...
You have to accept their terms so get that little thought in your head. That's reality. You buy a toaster or anything you have to accept the manufacturer's terms or not buy it. Same deal here.

I'm asking for clarification on how Origin will apply to a retail version of the Collector's Edition (or even the normal edition). The Collector's Edition is a limited pre-order. Be nice to know the terms BEFORE, not after I'm stuck with terms I don't agree.

A toaster is a poor analogy for software. If I don't like the toaster, I can take it back after I open the package or if it doesn't work as expected. I could even sue them if there was a major problem.

The 'current' EULA, TOS and Privacy Policy is known for Origin. Will Origin be required is the main question and it's not known yet.  Suggest you read some of the previous posts on this to get a more complete understanding of the thread. We understand it's EA's way or don't buy - we're waiting for clarification of several things. Plus it would be good to know the EULA, the TOS, the Privacy Policy and what DRM will apply to the retail version of the game.

So. Even in the unlikely event that EA is giving away ME 3 in March, we'd still like to know a lot more about it.

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 29 novembre 2011 - 05:49 .