3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Mister Mida]

DanaScu wrote...

http://reviews.cnet....8-10391702.html

"Over the coming years, we will transform EA from a packaged goods company to a fully integrated digital entertainment company," Riccitiello told investors during an earnings call last month. "We're transforming EA to a games-as-a-service model."

http://www.vg247.com...tail-this-year/

"At the end of [2011], the digital business is bigger than the packaged goods business, full stop. No questions in my mind. Then, you know, I think that we'll find ways to even sell our packaged goods content in chunks and in pieces and subscriptions and micro-transactions."

Found this somewhere else. This seems to be the start of the digital only/microtransactions they were shooting for with the EADownloader. Now its called Origin. And the privacy issue is still there.

I would like to finish Shepard's story. But there is no way I will ever install Origin on any system I use. The future, for me, seems to be going back to ignoring any title EA touches. I did it with no problems for 10 years; going back to that will be no problem.

Guess it's good ME3 is gonna be my last Bioware, and therefor also my last EA game, that I'll be buying for a very long time.

They've seen Valve get away with it with Steam, so they think they can too. Monkey see, monkey do.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 30 novembre 2011 - 05:59 .

[shepskisaac]

Lumikki wrote...

This is little outside of topic, but related how ever. It tells that many (75%) of EU people have conserns how corporation use they personal information. Meaning companies has been missusing the private information they gather from people. So, EU is going to renew hole EU laws related data protections.

http://news.yahoo.co...-152922933.html

EU regulators have been concerned about how commercial online services use customers' personal data to attract advertisers, saying they want to make sure that citizens' Internet privacy rights are respected.

EU may be a lazy, over-staffed bureaucratic monster, but one thing you can count on them is putting the mega corporations back in line. They forced Microsoft to drop mandatory IE, they forced Apple to open iTunes in the entire EU, they will take care of game publishers as well. Good old auntie EU 

Modifié par IsaacShep, 30 novembre 2011 - 06:03 .

[Feanor_II]

IsaacShep wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

This is little outside of topic, but related how ever. It tells that many (75%) of EU people have conserns how corporation use they personal information. Meaning companies has been missusing the private information they gather from people. So, EU is going to renew hole EU laws related data protections.

http://news.yahoo.co...-152922933.html

EU regulators have been concerned about how commercial online services use customers' personal data to attract advertisers, saying they want to make sure that citizens' Internet privacy rights are respected.

EU may be a lazy, over-staffed bureaucratic monster, but one thing you can count on them is putting the mega corporations back in line. They forced Microsoft to drop mandatory IE, they forced Apple to open iTunes in the entire EU, they will take care of game publishers as well. Good old auntie EU 

The way they are managing the current economical crisis makes me furious........ But this are examples that make mantain hope in UE

[Furtled]

InvincibleHero wrote...
7. You don't even know what it is looking for yet say they will sell info to advertisers. What info and about what? Your bank sells info, your credit card, your phone company, any company you've bought from sells your name on a list to another, charities do it just donate to one and you'll get dozens of requests in a month's time. This includes such "personal data" as name age birthdate if they have it address workplace phone number. Your private info isn't private anyways.

De-lurking to correct this. I'm not sure where you're based and it's possible this might be true in the US where marketing is very much opt-out focused; but this does not apply in the majority of the EU where data protection and marketing permission regulations are much more opt-in and designed to give people control over their information.

Companies cannot sell or pass personal information on without your express permission, banks especially will never pass customer details on, due to both data protection and financial services regulations. Any company engaging in these sorts of practices (and that includes charities for the purposes of this discussion) either has a data leak (rogue employees passing on information for money without permission/unsecured customer databases) or is shady to begin with.

Anywho, I see there's no update so I'll go back to lurking.

Modifié par Furtled, 30 novembre 2011 - 08:03 .

[xCirdanx]

Update for the situation in Europe, or better germany.

The consumer advice center, has handed over a declaration to cease and desist to EA. They demand a reworking of the EULA and basicly an explanation on what they hell they want to do with the user informations they collect etc.

Should EA refuse to sign and follow the demand, they will go to court.

Source: (german i´m afraid)

http://www.heise.de/...ab-1387449.html

[anzolino]

Yes, great news and hope for all of us to get ME3 "clean" and hopefully not only for the Europeans. Now EA has the attention from data protectors and consumer protectors, like our lovely Facebook ;o)
Where are the british people at all? I thought the Information Commissioner and the Office Of Fair Trading would listen attentively like the Germans?

Thanks for the Facebook link, Killjoy.

[CenturyCrow]

DanaScu wrote...
Riccitiello told investors during an earnings call last month. "We're transforming EA to a games-as-a-service model."
"At the end of [2011], the digital business is bigger than the packaged goods business, full stop. No questions in my mind. Then, you know, I think that we'll find ways to even sell our packaged goods content in chunks and in pieces and subscriptions and micro-transactions."

I don't doubt that this will work. For a while. And some people will have no problem feeding EA a stream of money for a 'service.' Quantity displaces quality. Marketing pretends it's a useful service instead of actually offering a product and support is more DIY. I think many of the people participating in this thread are looking for a quality product. A game, not a service. A game not a chat line. And no need for everything shoved into a one size fits all, do all program like Origin, that actually adds nothing useful to the game we paid for. I can almost see the forums being altered in the near future, somehow blended into Origin, because the forums don't fit EA's business plan.

Well, at least nobody has figured out how to digitize food, air and water.

DanaScu wrote...
I would like to finish Shepard's story. But there is no way I will ever install Origin on any system I use. The future, for me, seems to be going back to ignoring any title EA touches. I did it with no problems for 10 years; going back to that will be no problem.

I've already dumped SONY, Ubisoft and others. EA is just another top prospect for the list. I want to finish the trilogy too. Still time to cancel the pre-order or better yet, perhaps find a solution or a way around Origin. But I will Occupy my computer with my choices. Or I'll occupy my time with other interests. It's a major turning point in the gaming realm for me. What started out with Baldur's Gate has turned into a digital EULA wall.

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 30 novembre 2011 - 10:51 .

[Nathander Von Eric]

If Origin is required to be installed to play a retail PC copy I'll be happy to pay Game Stop for a used copy of ME3 for the Xbox 360 to finish out the series.

But since I'll be going that route in protest and to make sure that EA doesn't get any money from me I guess that means that I won't get to play the multiplayer if EA forces people to buy an online pass to access it.

So I'll only get half of the game and won't be able to buy any DLC either I guess. *Sigh*

This waiting around for an answer and assuming the worst is really starting to be a bummer.

[Furtled]

anzolino wrote...
Where are the british people at all? I thought the Information Commissioner and the Office Of Fair Trading would listen attentively like the Germans?

German privacy laws are considerably stricter than British ones, if Brits on the boards are concerned about the Origin client and the EULA they need to contact the ICO so they can investigate, I know plenty did so during the Real ID/Forum debarcle with Activision the other year, along with the ESRB. I'm not entirely sure this would fall under the OFT's remit but people could try if they want to.

Again, I personally don't think EA will abuse any data they collect, but I do appreciate why people are uncomfortable with the software poking around where it does (I'm not sure why it would need to access the areas it appears to myself) and also with being (effectively) blackmailed into using it if it's required to run ME3.

I appreciate what EA are trying to do with Origin and it's good to have more than one big option out there for digital gaming, but I'm not entirely convinced they're going about it the right way; there's a lot of stick being waved about and not a carrott in sight.

Modifié par Furtled, 01 décembre 2011 - 12:15 .

[SalsaDMA]

Furtled wrote...

anzolino wrote...
Where are the british people at all? I thought the Information Commissioner and the Office Of Fair Trading would listen attentively like the Germans?

German privacy laws are considerably stricter than British ones, if Brits on the boards are concerned about the Origin client and the EULA they need to contact the ICO so they can investigate, I know plenty did so during the Real ID/Forum debarcle with Activision the other year, along with the ESRB. I'm not entirely sure this would fall under the OFT's remit but people could try if they want to.

Again, I personally don't think EA will abuse any data they collect, but I do appreciate why people are uncomfortable with the software poking around where it does (I'm not sure why it would need to access the areas it appears to myself) and also with being (effectively) blackmailed into using it if it's required to run ME3.

I appreciate what EA are trying to do with Origin and it's good to have more than one big option out there for digital gaming, but I'm not entirely convinced they're going about it the right way; there's a lot of stick being waved about and not a carrott in sight.

I for one think they WILL abuse any data they collect. It's EA after all. Electronic Arts of bygone days I might have had trust in, but not EA.

Heck, the latest proof of how trustworthy they are was the bf3 buyers on ps3 that were promised another game if they bought bf3. Then afterwards they tried to shirk out from it, anouncing that they wouldn't get the game anyway. Only when the threat of a class action suit was very real did they change their mind and claim it was all a misunderstanding...

The only misunderstanding with EA is thinking they have any integrity left.

And even if the unthinkable happens, and there are 2 thursdays in the same week which causes EA to actually be responsible with the data they collect, they already prooved their security is holed as a swiss cheese. Heck, there are reports of security issues with origin that are at least a month old, and still unresolved, which allows people to log into other peoples acounts.

There's a handfull of digital distributors already that are large enough that I know about them without having dug much into that particular subject. The only ones 'needing' Origin are EA, to pad their pockets further. The consumers already got plenty of options to choose from, being able to pick deals from various sources if they wish.

[Trekfanboy]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Heck, there are reports of security issues with origin that are at least a month old, and still unresolved, which allows people to log into other peoples acounts.

If someone hacks my Origin account from earlier this year and plays the three games that I paid for at least then SOMEONE will get to play the games I purchased.

I support DRM and the right of companies to make money. In fact, I don't even care if a company uses my private information to figure out ways to make more money from me in the future.

I just don't support Origin or the Origin store after I spent good money buying games I was supposed to be able to play but can't (Yes, my PC exceeds the recommended configuration for all the games in question) ... and then was insulted by EA/Origin customer support when I tried to get help AND they didn't help.

Steam isn't "great" but EVERY game I've paid for on Steam I've been able to play. Furthermore, during the few times that I contacted Steam support, they always helped and never insulted me.

Modifié par Trekfanboy, 01 décembre 2011 - 12:45 .

[DownyTif]

CDPR CEO shooting at companies like EA (for DRM reasons):

www.gamespot.com/news/the-witcher-2-pirated-45-million-times-cd-projekt-6346876

If The Witcher 2 got pirated about 4.5M times, without DRM, I'm eager to see the numbers for ME3 if it uses Origin...

[DownyTif]

DanaScu wrote...

http://reviews.cnet....8-10391702.html

"Over the coming years, we will transform EA from a packaged goods company to a fully integrated digital entertainment company," Riccitiello told investors during an earnings call last month. "We're transforming EA to a games-as-a-service model."

http://www.vg247.com...tail-this-year/

"At the end of [2011], the digital business is bigger than the packaged goods business, full stop. No questions in my mind. Then, you know, I think that we'll find ways to even sell our packaged goods content in chunks and in pieces and subscriptions and micro-transactions."

Found this somewhere else. This seems to be the start of the digital only/microtransactions they were shooting for with the EADownloader. Now its called Origin. And the privacy issue is still there.

I would like to finish Shepard's story. But there is no way I will ever install Origin on any system I use. The future, for me, seems to be going back to ignoring any title EA touches. I did it with no problems for 10 years; going back to that will be no problem.

The more I think about it, the more I see the scenario repeats itself in front of our eyes.

It happened to US citizens... Some banks and others companies allowed people to live on a bubble, bending the rules to the extreme until the bubble exploded and we all know the consequences. Who suffers? Not the banks, it's the normal US citizen. 

Less tragic, it happened also in the NHL, when all players were going all-in for huge contracts, until the NHL imploded and a lock-out began. Who "suffered"? the fans.

EA is now, in front of our eyes, bending the rules to the extreme, making a money run offensive without thinking about the possible consequences. What will happen? Yep, they will create a cancer in gaming that will kill what we love. Who will "suffer"? Gamers.

And I sincerly hope I'm wrong on who will suffer from this.

Modifié par DownyTif, 01 décembre 2011 - 02:19 .

[anzolino]

Of course, they have the right to make their money. I think we all know that and nobody want to ban them from doing it. We are ready to buy the game. But they also have to accept the other side and what the price sometimes means for the people. They cannot just do what they want, especially if there are some rules like data protection law.

There is also another thing. I wouldn't like to be pushed in a direction which I don't like. I always bought my games as hard copy, it was easy. Buy the game, install and play. Finish. Now I read:
- every one want to make all of it digital (how many hard disks do I need in the future?)
- I have to download gigabytes before I can play (no, my bandwith is not that great, I need days for it)
- they want me to buy a console (PC version are out, where are my mods?)
- the support is lousy (and this also for all the digital - it's a new dimension)
- I have to be online (no playing on the notebook in vacation somewhere?)
- the gamer networks (PSN, MS, Steam) were hacked in this year (multiple times)

And I read all this and then they want my data too, for enhancing my user experiences. What? I don't have any user experiences at all because all these things are preventing me from playing.
But it doesn't matter for the companies. I'm an old fashion and I think gaming is over soon for people like me if they are going right into this direction.

@Furtled, I think the differences are not that big, because the base is the same: European Directive. In Germany the people contacted the offices, they don't take actions by themselves.

[RocShemp]

So I guess the best bet would be to hope for an English-friendly, Origin-free, German release for PC?

Modifié par RocShemp, 01 décembre 2011 - 03:16 .

[CenturyCrow]

RocShemp wrote...

So I guess the best bet would be to hope for an English-friendly, Origin-free, German release for PC?

Ouch. Sorry about this, you mean we'll get a German Shepard? 

Your idea would be an ideal situation and far better than learning German.

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 01 décembre 2011 - 11:21 .

[Lumikki]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Furtled wrote...

Again, I personally don't think EA will abuse any data they collect, but I do appreciate why people are uncomfortable with the software poking around where it does (I'm not sure why it would need to access the areas it appears to myself) and also with being (effectively) blackmailed into using it if it's required to run ME3.

I for one think they WILL abuse any data they collect. It's EA after all. Electronic Arts of bygone days I might have had trust in, but not EA.

What would I say, it's irrelevant does EA abuse the information or not, because the issue isn't just what EA does.

Issue is what YOU self do.  (Now)

We all should ALLWAYS protect our privacy and not give information what the other persons or companies doesn't need. Because if THEY don't have the information, they can't abuse it. Point been, be smart and don't give others even chance to abuse your private information. So, I don't think it matters what we assume EA will do with our private data, only thing what matters is do we allow them to have the chance to abuse?

If person is little bit carefull and only give minimal private information as need based, then less we need to worry be abused later. By the company it self or hackers stealing the information from company.

That's why some of us fight agaist Origin client, because Origin client doesn't give us any option about our privacy, it steals allmost everyting it can. Just because you self don't know how your personal information will benefits others or how the information can be used agaist you self. Doesn't mean we customers should not be smart and protect our self agaist information stealing.

Why collect any data if you don't use it?
Why not ask permission does customer want to be part of data collection?
Why collect information what aren't even game related?
Why collect more data that is needed for playing the game?
Why force customers use and install software what they may no need?

Does any of these actions what EA does, show respect to us as customers?
If EA doesn't respect our civil rights for privacy, then how can we trust EA?

Think about this. That's why we are here in this forum with our conserns, because we want EA to respect us as customers and behave the way we could trust them. That means be polite and ask from us what we want. That means respect our privacy and ask if we want to help EA's game development. That means don't force us, but give us voluntary options to chooce the way we like.

Point been Origin client should be voluntary tool for those who wants it. Company wanting to go digital distribution direction is they choice, but what about customers, are ALL company's customers ready for going digital distributions. Because if they aren't, company may lose some customers. When losing customers was good for business?

Modifié par Lumikki, 01 décembre 2011 - 05:14 .

[Embrosil]

RocShemp wrote...

So I guess the best bet would be to hope for an English-friendly, Origin-free, German release for PC?

Would be a great reason to renew my knowledge of the German language though

Modifié par Embrosil, 01 décembre 2011 - 08:53 .

[Bryy_Miller]

DownyTif wrote...

CDPR CEO shooting at companies like EA (for DRM reasons):

www.gamespot.com/news/the-witcher-2-pirated-45-million-times-cd-projekt-6346876

If The Witcher 2 got pirated about 4.5M times, without DRM, I'm eager to see the numbers for ME3 if it uses Origin...

I am honestly baffled by why they think a 4.5 million pirated copies ratio is a good exchange for no DRM.

[xCirdanx]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
I am honestly baffled by why they think a 4.5 million pirated copies ratio is a good exchange for no DRM.

Because for one, this is only a vague guess and nothing more. DRM does nothing against it and they know it and CDPR isn´t dumb enough to believe that a pirated copy would be a sold game otherwise.

Modifié par xCirdanx, 01 décembre 2011 - 11:32 .

[Dilandau3000]

If you want to avoid piracy, I think the gog.com approach is the best one. They are offering for sale many old games that can easily be pirated, yet they use no DRM. Instead, they depend on making sure there is no point in pirating the games.

Gog.com has fair prices, no DRM, no activations, unlimited re-downloads, simple hassle-free installers, and a bunch of extras like downloadable manuals, wallpapers and avatars. And their strategy works, at least for me. I moved halfway across the globe, so a lot of my games collection is in storage in another country. If I want to play those games, I would have no qualms downloading them somewhere since I already own them anyway. But I have in many cases purchased many of these games again from gog.com because they're cheap enough that it's not worth the hassle of trying to find an illegal download, and I know that those $5 (or whatever) will never be wasted because no DRM means I'll never be locked out of my purchase.

That is how you fight piracy, imo. Treating your customers like thieves is not the way to go.

[Wittand25]

RocShemp wrote...

So I guess the best bet would be to hope for an English-friendly, Origin-free, German release for PC?

The PC Version at least will be multilingual like all other BioWare games in the past have been so no reason to learn German if you don´t want to.
And I would not hope on a Origin-free version in any language since the complaints only reside with the EULA and not with the client itself.
In other words all EA needs to do is reword the EULA and the Privacy Policy to be more clear on what data is collected.

[Metalrocks]

i hope they will tell EA to stop origin and sue them for millions that EA really feels it how retarded they are and think twice before they decide to screw over customers.

[SalsaDMA]

Wittand25 wrote...

In other words all EA needs to do is reword the EULA and the Privacy Policy to be more clear on what data is collected.

Incorrect.

Since EA reserves the right to change the EULA at any given time, a temporary change to the EULA to appease purchasers here and now changes nothing in the end when they revert the changes later on.

So no, it's not "all they need to do".

They need to admit that they barked up the wrong tree when trying to heist our data without consent, and let us get the game without Origin at all.

For my sake, it's: origin = no purchase.

It's that simple.

[Wittand25]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

In other words all EA needs to do is reword the EULA and the Privacy Policy to be more clear on what data is collected.

Incorrect.

Since EA reserves the right to change the EULA at any given time, a temporary change to the EULA to appease purchasers here and now changes nothing in the end when they revert the changes later on.

So no, it's not "all they need to do".

They need to admit that they barked up the wrong tree when trying to heist our data without consent, and let us get the game without Origin at all.

For my sake, it's: origin = no purchase.

It's that simple.

They need to change the EULA unless they want to go to court in Germany. Sorry if that was not clear.

I am fully aware that little if not nothing will stopp those who are afraid of Origin boykotting it and handing out 1-star reviews on Amazon and similar places. It does afterall still happen with Steam at every release and no doubt it will be years untill the last protester has given up for either program.