3140 réponses à ce sujet

[SalsaDMA]

Trekfanboy wrote...

lucidfox wrote...

The link doesn't work. Asks for a Microsoft Outlook Web Access password. (Microsoft? Seriously?)

Just remove the redirect and replace it with a direct link.

Fixed it. Sorry about that.

got a
403 - forbidden
when clicking on your link. What's wrong with regular pic sites?

[N0-Future]

Furtled wrote...

anzolino wrote...
Where are the british people at all? I thought the Information Commissioner and the Office Of Fair Trading would listen attentively like the Germans?

German privacy laws are considerably stricter than British ones, if Brits on the boards are concerned about the Origin client and the EULA they need to contact the ICO so they can investigate, I know plenty did so during the Real ID/Forum debarcle with Activision the other year, along with the ESRB. I'm not entirely sure this would fall under the OFT's remit but people could try if they want to.

Again, I personally don't think EA will abuse any data they collect, but I do appreciate why people are uncomfortable with the software poking around where it does (I'm not sure why it would need to access the areas it appears to myself) and also with being (effectively) blackmailed into using it if it's required to run ME3.

I appreciate what EA are trying to do with Origin and it's good to have more than one big option out there for digital gaming, but I'm not entirely convinced they're going about it the right way; there's a lot of stick being waved about and not a carrott in sight.

Ive already written a letter to them listing my concerns and complaints. I think its realy good news coming from Germany regarding the whole Origin debarcle though...
Well done everyone in Germany...

Modifié par N0-Future, 02 décembre 2011 - 06:33 .

[Furtled]

piethief100 wrote...
It's not our privacy laws that are in question here strictly (as we don't have one), but instead the Data Protection Act. It's been a long time since I've studied it, so I can't remember the exact section this comes under, but EA cannot pass on our personal information without implicit permission.

I doubt that simply requiring us to accept the terms and conditions satisfies this, as unusual and invasive clauses must be emphasised, and the customer made aware of them. I doubt simply ticking a box constitutes being made aware of a clause.

In the real world though, our legal system can be rather unfair to the individual. I doubt any of us has a spare 100k around to fight this through the High Court and Appeal Court.

Agreed. I'm not a legal specialist on any of this (but I've learned a lot more since billy the squid started posting - thanks!), my day job's digital marketing for a large organisation so my knowledge is based on all the things we have to conform to day to day, the more nuanced stuff I can't be sure on, but again, agreed that all the legal stuff I've seen points to certain parts of the EULA being un-enforcable in various EU countries.

The reason I'm hesitant to say EA are going to abuse the data re: third parties is because I don't know if that section means something as simple as having to ensure they're covered, if say, they use a third party application to send emails (so technically data will pass to a third party, but that third party and EA remain bound by data protection laws), or if it actually means something else. Right now combined with their Privacy Policy I can't see EA being able to do anything shady with anyone's data.

No company wants to be the one that mishandles customer information, not only is it exceptionally bad PR, but it damages customer trust and leaves them open to massive fines. Unfortunately that can result in badly worded legalise (which I do think the current EULA is) that covers the company's backside but really isn't customer friendly.

All that said though, again, I do think EA are going about this the wrong way. Something like the Origin client should always be optional, as should any form of data collection; and I don't mean optional in the current all or nothing method of burying clauses in an enormous EULA/requiring an unecessary bit of software (that appears to poke around in some very odd places for no reason I can fathom) to run a game.

Modifié par Furtled, 02 décembre 2011 - 07:26 .

[N0-Future]

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

The question has been lingering on the board for longer than just 28 days. The original thread asking if Origin will be a requirement to play ME3 was closed after it had been going for at least a month or so.

I remeber when the first Origin thead was locked. I also to remeber that they promised an answer to the Origin question about two months ago. But as of yet still no answer.

Edit: spelling

Modifié par N0-Future, 02 décembre 2011 - 07:16 .

[Alex_SM]

EA has a simple way to fix this. Just modify the client so the data collecting is not mandatory, but optional. And before the user allows data collection, explain what data are they going to collect and stick with it. Exactly what Steam does.

A first step could be just making a little update to the client that just blocks data collection until the whole thing is solved.

People may still liking or hating Origin, but at least all the dangerous stuff goes away.

But you know what? I highly doubt this is going to happen. EA won't give up on their policy. If they would have wanted to give users a choice, then they would have given it from the beginning (because their main competitor gives that choice, it's not some kind of unknown feature). Instead they are just changing the EULA every week so they could dribble the complains. If they are doing it this way is because they consider that data collection to be an important part of their plans.

[Furtled]

SalsaDMA wrote...
I for one think they WILL abuse any data they collect. It's EA after all. Electronic Arts of bygone days I might have had trust in, but not EA.

I'm not saying EA haven't proven to be a bit of a mess when it comes to customer relations, but they are bound by the data protection/privacy laws of the countries they operate in, whether they like it or not, and they're not above being fined painful amounts of cash if they misuse customer data.

I completely understand why you and others don't trust them with your data, but I don't think any breaches would be intentional (not terribly reassuring I know). Large companies have a tendancy to be disorganised and this can lead to problems, but there's not many who'd risk the type of fall out that happens when customer data is mishandled deliberately; it's just too much of a risk financially.

Again, I'm not defending EA on how the Origin client appears to work, or the apparent strategy behind getting players to use it; because I do think they're handling it entirely the wrong way and need to make both the client, and any data collection, optional.

Personally I continue to hope that the Origin client isn't mandatory for ME3 for a lot of reasons, mainly because I don't want to see Bioware missing out on their share of the money from pre-orders/full price sales that will be lost due to this mess.

Modifié par Furtled, 02 décembre 2011 - 10:02 .

[Alex_SM]

If there's an impact in sales due to Origin, they will be surely blaming piracy, as every company does every time a PC game has low sales.

[Furtled]

Possibly - the best way around that (for players who do cancel pre-orders due to Origin) is for them to cite that as the reason; WoW players did it when they cancelled Cataclysm pre-orders en-masse during the Real ID/Forum mess and it did make a difference.

Modifié par Furtled, 02 décembre 2011 - 10:05 .

[Embrosil]

Alex_SM wrote...

EA has a simple way to fix this. Just modify the client so the data collecting is not mandatory, but optional. And before the user allows data collection, explain what data are they going to collect and stick with it. Exactly what Steam does.

A first step could be just making a little update to the client that just blocks data collection until the whole thing is solved.

People may still liking or hating Origin, but at least all the dangerous stuff goes away.

But you know what? I highly doubt this is going to happen. EA won't give up on their policy. If they would have wanted to give users a choice, then they would have given it from the beginning (because their main competitor gives that choice, it's not some kind of unknown feature). Instead they are just changing the EULA every week so they could dribble the complains. If they are doing it this way is because they consider that data collection to be an important part of their plans.

Exactly, if EA wants to have their own online distribution system, I do not have a problem with it. But it must be a working one, user friendly one and a transparent one. Let us select during the installation, if we want Origin to collect some of our data, or not. But this shady behavior, when Origin accesses many different directories and scans running processes simply is not good.

[SalsaDMA]

If you call it for a 'bit of a mess' when EA first officially promises consumers one thing, then retracts on the promise after purchase and only after faced with an actual class action law suit promise to make good on the initial promise, then I guess you are right.

Presonally I would more say it is typical behaviour of a company that lost all credibility. And this was just the most recent incident I can think of.

It's really sad, cause I got alot of old EA games in my catalouge. But the way they behave now, as if the consumer is something they need to exploit rather than service, that just rubs me too much the wrong way. So from having been an avid customer in the past, they have turned me into a person that wouldn't dream of buying one of their games in the future as long as they stick to their current mentality.

I heard they were even trying to secure the Wii for Origin too now, so I doubt they are in the mood of not trying to force Origin on as many as possible, which means I'm not one of their future customers.

[Furtled]

SalsaDMA wrote...
If you call it for a 'bit of a mess' when EA first officially promises consumers one thing, then retracts on the promise after purchase and only after faced with an actual class action law suit promise to make good on the initial promise, then I guess you are right.

What I'd actually call it if something like the BF3 lawsuit issue happened at my place likely won't make it past the BSN profanity filter, so 'bit of a mess' it is for now. And I do agree, EA are alienating chunks of their customer base for no other reason than bad planning; making money while building customer trust is hard work, but those customers will be around long after the ones snared by other, faster, methods have moved on. It's an incredibly short sighted strategy, which is surprising coming from a company who seem to be thinking long term in most other areas.

Modifié par Furtled, 02 décembre 2011 - 10:30 .

[CenturyCrow]

SalsaDMA wrote...
But the way they behave now, as if the consumer is something they need to exploit rather than service, that just rubs me too much the wrong way. So from having been an avid customer in the past, they have turned me into a person that wouldn't dream of buying one of their games in the future as long as they stick to their current mentality.

It's about control and monopoly. Origin shifts EA from being a game publisher to a game distributor.

I have a similar perception of EA (and other companies) that you do. We're not customers, we're a resource to be exploited. There have been a parade of changes in the DRM, EULA and TOS over the years where the purchasers rights have been eroded and manipulated. i.e. the succesful use of EULA and DLC to almost eliminate people selling their copies legitimately; why can't I resell my game to someone or trade it in for something newer, which is a common practice?

I suspect part of Origin is intended as shift to a total digital distribution mode (no retail packaging) that will give EA full control over a game, how it's marketed and sold. It's a good business concept from a cost/profit viewpoint and many buyers prefer the convenience of a digital copy (like Steam). But it gives EA almost total control over software. Currently the cost between digital vs retail is about the same, particularly on release, even though the digital product has no packing costs. Once retail packaging has been eliminated, there is no competition between EA and Amazon, Gamestop, etc. because the retailers won't have a product to sell, let alone be able to compete on a price point. The only competition would be with another 'publisher' who has a monopoly on digital distribution.

The other aspect of Origin that can be perceived as negative for many PC users is the data collection. Based on the first EULA/Privacy Policy that EA tried to use with BF3 (then rewrote for Germany), it turns EA into data collecting and mining company as well as information retailer. Both perceived as useful for marketing tools.

From a basic game publisher to a full blown retailer. And not just on the PC. I suspect there will eventually be a big tug of war over the platforms as well of how games are retailed and controlled; EA vs. SONY and Microsoft on the consoles, plus the phones and tablets.

Maybe board games will start making a comeback

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 02 décembre 2011 - 11:04 .

[Nathander Von Eric]

SalsaDMA wrote...

I heard they were even trying to secure the Wii for Origin too now, so I doubt they are in the mood of not trying to force Origin on as many as possible, which means I'm not one of their future customers.

That's the rumor anyway.  If it pans out to be true the Wii-U just may be the first Nintendo console that I don't buy.

Er....not counting the Virtual Boy of course *Shudder*

[SalsaDMA]

Edit: Post removed. Stay on topic or this gets closed. 

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 02 décembre 2011 - 11:24 .

[SalsaDMA]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Edit: Post removed. Stay on topic or this gets closed. 

Considering it was putting to attention a case where customers could loose access to their games without having actually done anything, I figured it was on topic given that it would affect customers access to ME3 if that included Origin.

But whatever...

I guess the postive I can take from that post deletion is that there are still officials looking at the thread at least

[shepskisaac]

Both TOR & BF3 players got the official answer concering whether TOR & BF3 on PC (especially retail copies) would  use Origin about 4 months prior to each's respective release dates. ME3 is now 3 months prior its release date and we still haven't heard anything :/

Modifié par IsaacShep, 02 décembre 2011 - 11:36 .

[EternalPink]

Not been to these forums recently since i've been playing Spacemarine by relic. Was hoping, as we are now only 3 months from release, that there would be an answer by now about whether the origins spyware is a requirement for the PC version.

Guess i'll come back again in a couple more months

[Killjoy Cutter]

Alex_SM wrote...

EA has a simple way to fix this. Just modify the client so the data collecting is not mandatory, but optional. And before the user allows data collection, explain what data are they going to collect and stick with it. Exactly what Steam does.

A first step could be just making a little update to the client that just blocks data collection until the whole thing is solved.

People may still liking or hating Origin, but at least all the dangerous stuff goes away.

But you know what? I highly doubt this is going to happen. EA won't give up on their policy. If they would have wanted to give users a choice, then they would have given it from the beginning (because their main competitor gives that choice, it's not some kind of unknown feature). Instead they are just changing the EULA every week so they could dribble the complains. If they are doing it this way is because they consider that data collection to be an important part of their plans.

The way around this is to not require Origin at all, and for EA to stop looking at its customers as if they were either pirates or sources of sellable data.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

IsaacShep wrote...

Both TOR & BF3 players got the official answer concering whether TOR & BF3 on PC (especially retail copies) would  use Origin about 4 months prior to each's respective release dates. ME3 is now 3 months prior its release date and we still haven't heard anything :/

It could be a good thing...meaning they are actually considering allowing retail copies to not have forced Origin use...or just typical EA "keep them in the dark" tactics, to cut their losses.

[Killjoy Cutter]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...
Edit: Post removed. Stay on topic or this gets closed. 

Considering it was putting to attention a case where customers could loose access to their games without having actually done anything, I figured it was on topic given that it would affect customers access to ME3 if that included Origin.

But whatever...

I guess the postive I can take from that post deletion is that there are still officials looking at the thread at least

EDIT:  SalsaDMA, would you mind PMing me a summary of the deleted post?

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 03 décembre 2011 - 12:25 .

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Edit: Post removed. Stay on topic or this gets closed. 

Considering it was putting to attention a case where customers could loose access to their games without having actually done anything, I figured it was on topic given that it would affect customers access to ME3 if that included Origin.

But whatever...

I guess the postive I can take from that post deletion is that there are still officials looking at the thread at least

Depends if it was just a moderator or a Bioware staff member...also depends if they will do the right thing in the PR department and pass our concerns/complaints on.

[Murphy73]

The thing that bothers me the most about ME3 being Origin Exclusive besides the whole "spyware" issue is that it probably means I won't be able to play it offline, when I'm not at college I have to be on a very limited internet connection, we're charged extra if we go over certain data limits, that's why I usually go out and buy a physical copy of the game in the first play. Always on DRM is complete BS and the fact that it would probably prevent me from being able to play the single-player campaign during the summer (not interested very much in the multiplayer) means that Bioware and EA have lost another potential customer.

No way in hell am I buying a game I can't play when I want to.

[Feops1]

Just to throw my two cents in.

- I would like to purchase Mass Effect 3 on release.
- I would prefer not to use Origin, as I do not hold EA's privacy policy in terribly high regard at the moment.

I fully acknowledge that EA has the right to mandate any terms they wish when offering a product or service. As the consumer I have the option of simply not purchasing if I find the terms are unacceptable. However I feel that Bioware and EA should be made aware of my concern so that they may make a more informed business decision when they do announce a response to this thread.

Edit: Clarity.

Modifié par Feops1, 03 décembre 2011 - 07:55 .

[The_11thDoctor]

Still no word... ME3's story leak is starting to look better by the day... I rather experience it, but Bioware doesnt seem like they care about the customers and fans enough to even tell us they know a lot have issue with origin and purchasing ME3 with it attached to it. I havent felt this let down by a game company since the DreamCast died... Oh wait, maybe since nintendo wii's game library... or Sonic's past 16 years of bad games... Finding out ME3 wont have Origin will be like finding out Sonic Generations was actually a good game. Just wont believe it till your playing... Pretty sure I dont know what hitting the lotto feels like, but I can imagine it'll feel the same as Bioware stating you can op=out origin before release day. Still waiting...