3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Killitngrillit]

A ****, it's bad enough I gotta use that POS to play BF3 once in awhile (really bad sequel, allround bad game), but now Mass Effect too? Damn you EA!

[Lumikki]

Furtled wrote...

Bioware are getting flack here for something I doubt they have much control over, EA are publishing the game and I'm sure Bioware have spoken (and probably continue to speak) to EA about this (the BF3 situation is probably their main focus right now mind). It speaks volumes that there hasn't been an official statement yet so I'm choosing to take that as a hopeful sign.

I get why EA are pushing Origin as hard as they are, physical distrubution is more expensive and involves the kind of logistics that takes a lot of work, but as others have said simply deciding to force players away from physical to digital isn't the way to go about it. To my mind there's a few things they could do to get Origin better established in the gaming community:

• Clean-up the client code so it doesn't (as it currently appears to) poke into places it shouldn't, or cause any other technical issues (as some people have reported).
  
• Make it optional but sweeten the deal, EA are a publisher, they have a lot of options here that they seem to be ignoring. Want people to use Origin as a client? Then give them early access to games, anything from a week to a day would be a good incentive, throw in some Origin client user exclusive items and most gamers would be all over it.
  
• Make any data collection optional, but again, sweeten the deal. Internet users are coming around to the realisation that their data is a profitable resource for companies, acknowledge that and act accordingly.
  
• Clean up the EULA either by making a plain english version and/or rewording the problem sections. Also consider allowing gamers to play the games they've purchased without agreeing to it if legally possible.
  
• Find and properly fix whatever fault is making forum bans turn into game bans and issue notes to all customer service reps that if they get a user complaining of a forum ban impacting their games, then they need to investigate and fix the issue as soon as possible.
  
• Do some QA on their support, find common problems and make sure that all customer service reps are giving the same (correct) response to things (the Bringing Down the Sky key situation springs to mind). I don't know if EA's reps use a knowledgebase or intranet of sorts, but it would help to have reps share fixes etc. on these for other reps to allow all reps to give better, more consistent, customer service.
  
• Accept that some people will always pirate, you could offer them dancing girls and a free pony with every copy of the game they buy and they'd still grab it from the torrent sites. Accept that and move on, this doesn't mean they have no right to use DRM of some description, but start thinking of it from the players perspective;  if a legitimate, DRM'd version of a product is more complicated and problematic to use than a pirated version then it's the wrong DRM to use.
  
• Work on their PR and try to be more transparent when things go wrong, gamers are incredibly vocal, but it's always better to come clean as soon as something is pointed out then have someone dig it up and start shouting - for a recent example of how badly that can go wrong just look at the CarrierIQ mess.

Anyway, that's about as much work brain as I can manage to engage on a Sunday evening so time for sleep.

Thanks for nice list.

Origin client should be changed to respect customers. There is a lot of people who would want to play Biowares ME3, but doesn't want EA's Origin client. There is nothing wrong company wanting to have they own digital distribution software, as long it respect customers rights, laws and freedom of choice.

Also you are right, people in the world are starting slowly wake up and fight for they civil rights. Even EU Justice Commissioners are waking up and start to see that something need to be done for this behavior in companies. There is even plan in EU that breaking peoples privacy can lead big fines for companies.

http://news.yahoo.co...-152922933.html (EU data protection law change)
http://www.ft.com/cm...144feabdc0.html (EU big fines for companies)

CarrierIQ, Origin client and facebook are just examples where it's going wrong. Companies has forgoten that consumers rights should respected too. Consumers are getting sick that they civil rights for privacy are been step over by companies. While we lawful consumers understand companies needs to protect they business, no-one should fight agaist injustice by starting them self to breaking laws and do injustice.

So EA, please make Origin Client fully voluntary (optional) product.

Modifié par Lumikki, 05 décembre 2011 - 09:20 .

[FieryDove]

OperativeX wrote...

We won't have to acquire the game in a 'non-legit' fashion if EA allows the game to be released on Steam or by DVD without the requirement of Origin. That is our message.

No matter your intended message you will be only sending one of two.

1. We need even more DRM and retrictions than ever before.

2. Pull a Ubisoft and abandon the pc market altogether.

Reminds me of a song by Mister-Mister.

Welcome to the real world. There is so much to learn.

Just don't buy it/play it and complain through normal channrels. Don't steal, you can't get back at "the man" that way and are really hurting the honest people "The Developers".

[dahoughtonuk]

I'm not going to pirate the thing, but I understand why some people are, even though I think it's wrong to do it.

Pirating is a gamble. Malware may well be included in free copies. Most people know that, but when with the legit copies you have to pay for certainty of malware, something is seriously wrong.

We're paying because for several reasons, to reward the developers, and because we trust the games to be malware free.

Modifié par dahoughtonuk, 05 décembre 2011 - 10:59 .

[OperativeX]

sbvera13 wrote...

OperativeX wrote...

EA's DRM certainly IS the WRONG kind of DRM. You'd think after installing a new OS all i'd have to do was re-install Origin then copy paste the install folders back into the main folders. I did that and my games appeared in the Origin library. Instead of saying 'Download' they said 'Install' coz the .exe files had been pasted. Great stuff! WRONG!

This is because the game is no longer marked in the registry.  It's part of how Windows runs more then Origin.  Steam has the same problem; even automatic installers from 2005 have this problem (my morrowind cd still asks me to install the game when I put it in to play it.

Incorrect. These weren't taken from windows these files were just the local setup files that get parked in Origin's game file folder (before) they are installed. I was actually following EA's instructions of backing them up directly to the letter.... huge fail.

[OperativeX]

FieryDove wrote...

OperativeX wrote...

We won't have to acquire the game in a 'non-legit' fashion if EA allows the game to be released on Steam or by DVD without the requirement of Origin. That is our message.

No matter your intended message you will be only sending one of two.

1. We need even more DRM and retrictions than ever before.

2. Pull a Ubisoft and abandon the pc market altogether.

Reminds me of a song by Mister-Mister.

Welcome to the real world. There is so much to learn.

Just don't buy it/play it and complain through normal channrels. Don't steal, you can't get back at "the man" that way and are really hurting the honest people "The Developers".

1. Other companies don't restrict the amount of times games can be installed with their DRM. I've downloaded and re-installed my copy of Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne (a Blizzard game) using their download service at least a dozen times over. All that is required is that i use my original product key. Same with my Steam games - hell those automatically put in my product key for me most of the time when using their backup system! EA's system is quite clearly flawed and only hurts the consumer.

2. Ubisoft have not abandon PC's. I don't know where u get ur misinformation but it sure makes you look cretinous when i look on Steam's main shop page and see Assassin's Creed Revelations (a ubisoft game) staring right at me available to purchase.

The only people hurting the Devs (if the decision to make Origin madatory stays) is EA. We're giving them a choice and offering them our money - all they have to do is release on DVD (without Origin requirement) or Steam. It is entirely down to EA whether they'll make the right choice and get our money or not. The ball is in their court.

It is very naiive to think that EA will simply do the right thing if we just sit on our hands and wait. Fat cats need to be persuaded before they'll consider you.

[Wittand25]

OperativeX wrote...
1. Other companies don't restrict the amount of times games can be installed with their DRM. I've downloaded and re-installed my copy of Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne (a Blizzard game) using their download service at least a dozen times over. All that is required is that i use my original product key. Same with my Steam games - hell those automatically put in my product key for me most of the time when using their backup system! EA's system is quite clearly flawed and only hurts the consumer.

Funny since neither does EA. The only restriction with current games is that you can not start a game on more than five different machines a day.

The only people hurting the Devs (if the decision to make Origin madatory stays) is EA. We're giving them a choice and offering them our money - all they have to do is release on DVD (without Origin requirement) or Steam. It is entirely down to EA whether they'll make the right choice and get our money or not. The ball is in their court.

Depends wheter you refrain from getting the game (good), or decide to pirate it (bad). Since the only thing you do when you pirate a game is that you tell the publisher that there are still people who will buy an original copy if the publisher is able from stopping them to buy an illegal one. And this only leads to worse and worse DRM, like having to be permanently online even for a single player game.

It is very naiive to think that EA will simply do the right thing if we just sit on our hands and wait. Fat cats need to be persuaded before they'll consider you.

They will ignore you no matter what you do. You might get a nicely worded explanation/apology/lip service if you complain, but protests and court cases could not change Valve´s attitude and will not change EA´s.
The only way to really get their attention is by not getting the game at all.

Modifié par Wittand25, 05 décembre 2011 - 12:19 .

[FieryDove]

OperativeX wrote...

1. Other companies don't restrict the amount of times games can be installed with their DRM. I've downloaded and re-installed my copy of Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne (a Blizzard game) using their download service at least a dozen times over. All that is required is that i use my original product key. Same with my Steam games - hell those automatically put in my product key for me most of the time when using their backup system! EA's system is quite clearly flawed and only hurts the consumer.

2. Ubisoft have not abandon PC's. I don't know where u get ur misinformation but it sure makes you look cretinous when i look on Steam's main shop page and see Assassin's Creed Revelations (a ubisoft game) staring right at me available to purchase.

The only people hurting the Devs (if the decision to make Origin madatory stays) is EA. We're giving them a choice and offering them our money - all they have to do is release on DVD (without Origin requirement) or Steam. It is entirely down to EA whether they'll make the right choice and get our money or not. The ball is in their court.

It is very naiive to think that EA will simply do the right thing if we just sit on our hands and wait. Fat cats need to be persuaded before they'll consider you.

1. I don't like restrictive drm as much as the next person. In fact my chances of buying ME3 are down to 0 currently origin or not. I can't get a blasted key for bring down the sky from EA. I had backed up my saves long ago. EA's knowledge base has years outdated info same as ME1 site, the links to download the DLC's work but the page that you register Me1/generate key is long gone along with the old bio forums and page that listed all cd-keys in that database. So I can't finish any of these games, transfer to 2 then transfer to 3. I just won't bother.

2. "cretinous" Really? What do you think all this trash talk means?

"we know that 95% of our consumers will pirate the game."
http://kotaku.com/ghost-recon-online/
"We've heard loud and clear that PC gamers are (edited out) about there being no version for them," Mettra told IncGamers. "It's hard because there's so much piracy and so few people are paying for PC games that we have to precisely weigh it up against the cost of making it,"
http://kotaku.com/58...ion-of-the-game
As well as Ubisoft's own forums.
I think it sends a clear picture of what they are doing/will do in the future for pc gaming. At least those that can think for themselves to stay informed.

I never said sit on your hands and do nothing. But Pirating isn't the answer. All is does is hurt the developers, other PC gamers and yourself if you ever get caught. There is no moral high ground in stealing. You can't justify it so give it up.

[Dilandau3000]

FieryDove wrote...

1. I don't like restrictive drm as much as the next person. In fact my chances of buying ME3 are down to 0 currently origin or not. I can't get a blasted key for bring down the sky from EA. I had backed up my saves long ago. EA's knowledge base has years outdated info same as ME1 site, the links to download the DLC's work but the page that you register Me1/generate key is long gone along with the old bio forums and page that listed all cd-keys in that database. So I can't finish any of these games, transfer to 2 then transfer to 3. I just won't bother.

You need to contact EA support to get a key for Bring Down the Sky, as indicated here. I used their online chat option, took about five minutes total to get a key.

Modifié par Dilandau3000, 05 décembre 2011 - 12:38 .

[OperativeX]

Wittand25 wrote...

OperativeX wrote...
1. Other companies don't restrict the amount of times games can be installed with their DRM. I've downloaded and re-installed my copy of Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne (a Blizzard game) using their download service at least a dozen times over. All that is required is that i use my original product key. Same with my Steam games - hell those automatically put in my product key for me most of the time when using their backup system! EA's system is quite clearly flawed and only hurts the consumer.

Funny since neither does EA. The only restriction with current games is that you can not start a game on more than five different machines a day.

The only people hurting the Devs (if the decision to make Origin madatory stays) is EA. We're giving them a choice and offering them our money - all they have to do is release on DVD (without Origin requirement) or Steam. It is entirely down to EA whether they'll make the right choice and get our money or not. The ball is in their court.

Depends wheter you refrain from getting the game (good), or decide to pirate it (bad). Since the only thing you do when you pirate a game is that you tell the publisher that there are still people who will buy an original copy if the publisher is able from stopping them to buy an illegal one. And this only leads to worse and worse DRM, like having to be permanently online even for a single player game.

It is very naiive to think that EA will simply do the right thing if we just sit on our hands and wait. Fat cats need to be persuaded before they'll consider you.

They will ignore you no matter what you do. You might get a nicely worded explanation/apology/lip service if you complain, but protests and court cases could not change Valve´s attitude and will not change EA´s.
The only way to really get their attention is by not getting the game at all.

You just said EA doesn't restrict the amount of installs you can do. Then you said the only restriction is that you can't install the games on more than 5 computers in a day. LOL what? Way to contradict yourself and get it all wrong at the same time.

EA's rule is that you can't install the game on more than 5 computers at ANY given time, period. But even if you wipe the game off of one of those 5 computers you still don't get that activation back right away. Which means its only installed on 4 computers. You'd have to go through EA's god awful tech support process to get ur 5th activation again which takes ages. Even then its at EA's disgression whether or not they give it to you.

Modifié par OperativeX, 05 décembre 2011 - 12:47 .

[FieryDove]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

You need to contact EA support to get a key for Bring Down the Sky, as indicated here. I used their online chat option, took about five minutes total to get a key.

I was in chat yesterday for over an hour...no one could help me. Maybe all the *good* tech went on vacation. I gave up.

[Lumikki]

First, Steam has nothing else to do with this issue, than it's other digital distribution software. Origin client is created because EA wants to compete with Steam client.

A) Piracy is crime (agaist laws)
Origin client breaking of customers privacy because games, is crime  (agaist laws)

Crime is allways consider as bad thing in modern socialty.

Choises should be:

1. Use digital or hard copy of the game.
 - Use Origin client  (or Steam) for digital copy of the game.  (Digital copy)
 - Buy hard copy (DVD) of the game from shop. (Hard copy)


2. Allowing data collection or not. (Player is using Origin client for something)
 - You allow data collection to help game company with they future games. (Data collection)
 - You don't allow data collection, because you value your personal privacy more. (Privacy mode)


These choices should allways exist for players in digital distribution softwares. No-one should be forced to use digital distribution software if they don't want. No-one should be forced to give up they computer privacy just because wanting to play games.

If EA would respect customers with these little things in they digital distribution policy with Origin client, then most customers would have nothing to complain.

Modifié par Lumikki, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:06 .

[OperativeX]

Yup sounds like EA tech support. Those guys are on vacation even when u do get to speak to them. The lights are on but no one's home =/

[Dilandau3000]

Guess I was lucky then to be given a key on my first attempt (this was about a month ago).

[Wittand25]

OperativeX wrote...
You just said EA doesn't restrict the amount of installs you can do. Then you said the only restriction is that you can't install the games on more than 5 computers in a day. LOL what? Way to contradict yourself and get it all wrong at the same time.

a.) Start not instal.
b.) You can instal the game on 1000 PCs if you want to, you will just need 200 days for it.
I fail to see the contradiction.

EA's rule is that you can't install the game on more than 5 computers at ANY given time, period. But even if you wipe the game off of one of those 5 computers you still don't get that activation back right away. Which means its only installed on 4 computers. You'd have to go through EA's god awful tech support process to get ur 5th activation again which takes ages. Even then its at EA's disgression whether or not they give it to you.

Wrong. Right from the BF3 EULA

B. Technical Protection Measures. This Software uses Origin Online
Activation content protection technology. An EA/Origin Account,
including the acceptance of EA’s online Terms of Service and Privacy
Policy (available at www.ea.com), installation of the Origin client
application (www.origin/about.com), acceptance of the Origin EULA, and
an Internet connection are required to authenticate the Software and
verify your license upon the initial launch of the Software on any unique
machine (“Authenticate” or “Authentication”). The serial code provided
with this Software will be verified during Authentication. Authentication is
limited to one EA Account per serial code. Accordingly, this Software is
not transferable once Authenticated. EA reserves the right to validate
your license through subsequent online Authentication. While there is
no limit on the total number of machines on which the Software can be
Authenticated, you may launch and access the Software on no more
than five (5) unique machines in any rolling 24-hour period. If you
disable or otherwise tamper with the technical protection measures, the
Software may not function properly and you will have materially
breached this License. Keep your serial code as you may need it to
install the Software on other machines.

Modifié par Wittand25, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:17 .

[Alex_SM]

Lumikki wrote...

A) Piracy is crime (agaist laws)

That depends on the country

[CenturyCrow]

@OpertiveX
@Wittand25
@Alex_SM

Please. Can we keep this topic confined to Origin so it's not shut down.

Thank You.

[Lumikki]

Alex_SM wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

A) Piracy is crime (agaist laws)

That depends on the country

Maybe, but at least it's in all western civilization countries.

Sure, some contries laws aren't agaist Origin client, but some are. How ever, if ME3 is sold in some country, it should at least pass the laws in that country.

Modifié par Lumikki, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:58 .

[OperativeX]

Wittand25 wrote...

OperativeX wrote...
You just said EA doesn't restrict the amount of installs you can do. Then you said the only restriction is that you can't install the games on more than 5 computers in a day. LOL what? Way to contradict yourself and get it all wrong at the same time.

a.) Start not instal.
b.) You can instal the game on 1000 PCs if you want to, you will just need 200 days for it.
I fail to see the contradiction.

EA's rule is that you can't install the game on more than 5 computers at ANY given time, period. But even if you wipe the game off of one of those 5 computers you still don't get that activation back right away. Which means its only installed on 4 computers. You'd have to go through EA's god awful tech support process to get ur 5th activation again which takes ages. Even then its at EA's disgression whether or not they give it to you.

Wrong. Right from the BF3 EULA

B. Technical Protection Measures. This Software uses Origin Online
Activation content protection technology. An EA/Origin Account,
including the acceptance of EA’s online Terms of Service and Privacy
Policy (available at www.ea.com), installation of the Origin client
application (www.origin/about.com), acceptance of the Origin EULA, and
an Internet connection are required to authenticate the Software and
verify your license upon the initial launch of the Software on any unique
machine (“Authenticate” or “Authentication”). The serial code provided
with this Software will be verified during Authentication. Authentication is
limited to one EA Account per serial code. Accordingly, this Software is
not transferable once Authenticated. EA reserves the right to validate
your license through subsequent online Authentication. While there is
no limit on the total number of machines on which the Software can be
Authenticated, you may launch and access the Software on no more
than five (5) unique machines in any rolling 24-hour period. If you
disable or otherwise tamper with the technical protection measures, the
Software may not function properly and you will have materially
breached this License. Keep your serial code as you may need it to
install the Software on other machines.

Dude what they say and what they do are 2 seperate things. EA do not practice what they preach. I have been locked out of several of my games on EADM/Origin before and it was painstaking to get them working again through tech support.

Install BF3 on 5 computers then uninstall it off 1 of them and try to reinstall it on a different one the next day. I can guarantee you that the game will not authenticate and you'll have to use tech support. I've had it happen to me plenty of times so i know for sure.

Modifié par OperativeX, 05 décembre 2011 - 03:05 .

[Alex_SM]

Lumikki wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

A) Piracy is crime (agaist laws)

That depends on the country

Maybe, but at least it's in all western civilization countries.

Well, not really. In Spain it isn't a crime until there's some kind of profit involved. And I think we are not the only EU nation doing it this way. 

For example:

Downloading a game/movie/album: legal
Selling (or using for any commercial purpose) a downloaded game/movie/album: illegal

Modifié par Alex_SM, 05 décembre 2011 - 03:35 .

[Fozee]

The topic of piracy is a crime on our forum. End of discussion, guys.

[Lumikki]

Okey.

When we get real answer from Bioware or EA related Origin client in ME3?

Modifié par Lumikki, 05 décembre 2011 - 05:05 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

NOOOOOOOO! DX

[shepskisaac]

Lumikki wrote...

Okey.

When we get real answer from Bioware or EA related Origin client in ME3?

Same question. Both The Old Republic & Battlefield 3 already had answers regarding Origin about 4 months before each's respective release date. Mass Effect 3 is only 3 months away and still no news?

[N0-Future]

IsaacShep wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Okey.

When we get real answer from Bioware or EA related Origin client in ME3?

Same question. Both The Old Republic & Battlefield 3 already had answers regarding Origin about 4 months before each's respective release date. Mass Effect 3 is only 3 months away and still no news?

I agree Isaacshep, and I have said the same thing. If SW:TOR got an answer on the Origin question 3-4months before release why cant they do the same for ME3. IMO they just dont want to hurt pre-order sales statistics.