3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

HoosTrax wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

First, Steam has nothing else to do with this issue, than it's other digital distribution software. Origin client is created because EA wants to compete with Steam client.

I feel like I need to address this. I understand your position as someone who prefers their software as purely DVD format, with no digitial distribution involvement whatsoever.

What you should understand is that for those of us that prefer digital distribution, Steam is not just some "other" DD service interchangeable for all intents and purposes with Origin. Steam has been around for a long time, and with the exception of new EA titles and Blizzard games which use Battle.net, almost all new AAA titles use Steam.

For many of us who prefer DD, we have a very substantial library of games on the Steam platform (almost 200 titles in my case) and being forced to acquire a game tied to another service, without being given an option of owning that game on my platform of choice is undesirable. (And I don't buy the explanation of why some EA games were pulled from Steam.)

It makes just about as much sense as if a major record label were to pull all of their music from iTunes, and tell customers that if you want music recorded by our artists, you must install our new client in addition to the iTunes software you've been using for years, just to have access to that handful of songs from our label.

Bottom line - it's a heavy-handed way of building a customer base at the expense of customer choice.

I understand your point. How ever, your only real point is that you want to use steam and not Origin. It's same point that someone likes some product better than other. Wanting to use only one DD for ALL games is fine and reasonable for customer, but who says everyone want that software to be Steam? Don't assume that what you want is same what others could do. I don't my self care one way or other, because I will not use any DD softwares at all.

Why EA want to compete with Steam, that's they business. I assume there is issues between Valve and EA. It's not my business to deside these stuff behave of companies. It's my business to say give us a choice how I get my games and not be forced one way or other. If you how ever, what to pursue need that ME3 should also be buyed from steam, feel free to do so. How ever, that doesn't mean it can't also be Origin client product and DVD product. So, Like I sayed, steam is just one DD software, nothing more. Your personal liking doesn't change it.

In this thread how ever, we don't say EA can't have they own DD software. We say, we don't like how EA with Origin client doesn't respect they customers freedom of choice.

Fozee wrote...

I'll do what I can to maybe get an answer on the subject.

Thank you.

The issue has been talked here so long allready and time is starting to run out, before the game is published.

Is installing Origin client optional? (At least on DvD products)
Is data collection in Origin client voluntary? (Say Yes or No to data collection and still able to play game)

Modifié par Lumikki, 07 décembre 2011 - 08:26 .

[Darth_Trethon]

^^^From what's been said so far it appears that Origin only gives you one choice.....use it or not but the moment you agree to its EULA your PC is fair game. I don't even see any valid reason for EA to ask to scan your PC anyway...they have no business beyond the games they sell you.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 06 décembre 2011 - 06:42 .

[Mister Mida]

HoosTrax wrote...
*snip*
Bottom line - it's a heavy-handed way of building a customer base at the expense of customer choice.

That's kinda funny you say that since a lot of hard copy games also force you to swallow Steam unwillingly (Skyrim). But hey, at least Valve ain't doing the shoving, right?

[Darth_Trethon]

Mister Mida wrote...

HoosTrax wrote...
*snip*
Bottom line - it's a heavy-handed way of building a customer base at the expense of customer choice.

That's kinda funny you say that since a lot of hard copy games also force you to swallow Steam unwillingly (Skyrim). But hey, at least Valve ain't doing the shoving, right?

Steam doesn't come with spyware....Origin IS spyware.

[Mister Mida]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

That's kinda funny you say that since a lot of hard copy games also force you to swallow Steam unwillingly (Skyrim). But hey, at least Valve ain't doing the shoving, right?

Steam doesn't come with spyware....Origin IS spyware.

Has this anything to do with my argument?

[Lumikki]

Furtled wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
CarrierIQ, Origin client and facebook are just examples where it's going wrong. Companies has forgoten that consumers rights should respected too. Consumers are getting sick that they civil rights for privacy are been step over by companies. While we lawful consumers understand companies needs to protect they business, no-one should fight agaist injustice by starting them self to breaking laws and do injustice.

So EA, please make Origin Client fully voluntary (optional) product.

I think a lot of this may come down to culture, the companies you mention (EA, Facebook etc.) are American; Europeans are used to privacy by default, a cultural expectation built up over many years of progressive law making in reaction to various events; the majority of Americans take a more relaxed view, especially when it comes to marketing.

US marketing laws are by and large opt-out (so you have to actively opt out to avoid your data being shared and used), European laws are mainly opt-in (companies must prove you have given them explicit permission to contact you), so it's easy to see how people living and working in the American culture can be a little baffled by the European response to things they do.

We marketing types have a role in this too, on the one side marketers see the data and think 'yay! we can use this to deliver more targeted advertising that people will want to see - we're being useful', whilst most customers see themselves being tracked across the web by a pair of shorts they looked at last week and (understandably) get creeped out.

What we marketing types need to realise as an industry is that not everyone is going to see things the same way we do, and we also need to learn to respect people's wishes, whether we agree with them or not. Modern marketing needs to be trust based, if you can't get customers to trust you, if you're not open with people, if you keep hitting them with unexpected things, and if you don't give them a choice (no matter how irrational you may think they're being) then you're going to be screwed in the long term.

Like you said it all boils down to respecting your customers, EA aren't in the best place right now with that (what with the BF3 situation, the disorganised support set-up and the forum ban = game ban issue rearing it's head again), they have a real chance to turn that around by simply moving past the seige mentality that seems to (understandably) be taking root and rethinking their customer strategy.

ME3 would be a perfect opportunity for them to show they're taking steps in the right direction by simply confirming that Origin will be optional before moving on to fix other issues with the client.

I'm just gonna comment this, because it's so well sayed. I think you are right, that the issue is coming from culture differences how business are done in different countries. I also think, that ALL good business happens when company respect they customers. If customers aren't happy with companies products, it's not anymore good business. In here EU we are a lot more protective with our privacy and companies can not really do so aggressive marketing same ways than example in USA.
 
Maybe EA has issues with Origin client because they can't understand European cultures?

In Europe we ask permissions from people, we don't just force our own needs to someone, even in business.

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Steam doesn't come with spyware....Origin IS spyware.

Actualy both Steam and Origin client has spywares too. Meaning both softwares has data collection ability. Difference is that, steam client you have option to refuse data collection, but with Origin client you don't.

Modifié par Lumikki, 07 décembre 2011 - 08:25 .

[whitey4444]

This whole thread is a parallel of hundreds that existed around the time of HL2 release. Funny now that Steam is considered, by some anyway, to be so great in comparison. I tolerate it at best.

Fozee wrote...

I'll do what I can to maybe get an answer on the subject.

Thanks.

[Alex_SM]

Lumikki wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Steam doesn't come with spyware....Origin IS spyware.

Actualy both Steam and Origin client has spywares too. Meaning both softwares has data collection ability. Difference is that, steam client you have option to refuse data collection, but with Origin client you don't.

Well, having that disabled by default, and needing the user to activate it, changes everything. And also it has never been caught looking for peronal files, just for hardware installed and software installed. 

[sissysouthpaw]

whitey4444 wrote...

This whole thread is a parallel of hundreds that existed around the time of HL2 release. Funny now that Steam is considered, by some anyway, to be so great in comparison. I tolerate it at best.

Fozee wrote...

I'll do what I can to maybe get an answer on the subject.

Thanks.

I keep having trouble with Steam, there's no way I'm going to start fighting with Origin too. If I have to get Origin even if I buy the physical copy, I ain't playing. It is going to suck but there just are some things that I will not accept just to play a game.

[N0-Future]

Fozee wrote...

I'll do what I can to maybe get an answer on the subject.

Thank you

Modifié par N0-Future, 06 décembre 2011 - 04:09 .

[Abirn]

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

Please remember that we are in Biowares house.

They invited us in and have allowed us to discuss a topic in a way that most likely isn't too pleasant for them.

Please voice your concerns and opinions in a reasonable and respectful manner and stay on topic and we won't have to worry about the thread being closed.

Respect is a good thing but it has to go both ways. They have respected us enough to let the thread stay open. Lets respect them by staying on topic and being polite eh?

Please. Pretty please. With whipped cream and a big cherry on top.

Discussing the forum ban issues is very on-topic because we are rightfully worried that saying something negative about bioware and/or EA will lock us out of our games, which is outrages that we even have to worry about such a thing. 
Look at blizzard, their forum bans and game bans are always separated. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

Please remember that we are in Biowares house.

They invited us in and have allowed us to discuss a topic in a way that most likely isn't too pleasant for them.

Please voice your concerns and opinions in a reasonable and respectful manner and stay on topic and we won't have to worry about the thread being closed.

Respect is a good thing but it has to go both ways. They have respected us enough to let the thread stay open. Lets respect them by staying on topic and being polite eh?

Please. Pretty please. With whipped cream and a big cherry on top.

I don't actually get the sense that EA has any respect for the customer.

[Alex_SM]

The same goes for Steam. Forum accounts and game accounts are completely separated.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Mister Mida wrote...

HoosTrax wrote...

*snip*
Bottom line - it's a heavy-handed way of building a customer base at the expense of customer choice.

That's kinda funny you say that since a lot of hard copy games also force you to swallow Steam unwillingly (Skyrim). But hey, at least Valve ain't doing the shoving, right?

Thanks for the head's up, I've been kinda considering a Skyrim purchase, now I know not to bother.

[shepskisaac]

Mister Mida wrote...

HoosTrax wrote...

*snip*
Bottom line - it's a heavy-handed way of building a customer base at the expense of customer choice.

That's kinda funny you say that since a lot of hard copy games also force you to swallow Steam unwillingly (Skyrim). But hey, at least Valve ain't doing the shoving, right?

Valve gives you choice to let Steam scan your computer or not. Giving Valve your data is not mandatory to play games that require Steam. With Origin, it's either "give us all your data or you can't play the game". Key difference.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 06 décembre 2011 - 05:45 .

[Mister Mida]

IsaacShep wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

HoosTrax wrote...

*snip*
Bottom line - it's a heavy-handed way of building a customer base at the expense of customer choice.

That's kinda funny you say that since a lot of hard copy games also force you to swallow Steam unwillingly (Skyrim). But hey, at least Valve ain't doing the shoving, right?

Valve gives you choice to let Steam scan your computer or not. Giving Valve your data is not mandatory to play games that require Steam. With Origin, it's either "give us all your data or you can't play the game". Key difference.

See my previous post.

[Furtled]

Fozee wrote...

I'll do what I can to maybe get an answer on the subject.

Thank you.

[anzolino]

Jup, Fozee, thank you.

[Chris Priestly]

I'm still trying to get a response to Origin and Mass Effect 3 for you.

I know there was a list of outstanding questions. Can someone post them again? I'm not promising I'll be able to get any or all of them answered, but I'm still working on it.

Thanks

[Nathander Von Eric]

There has been one long standing question that I believe stands head and shoulders above the others.

Will Origin be a requirement to play all versions of Mass Effect 3? (Digital and/or from a retail brick and mortar store)

Thank you sir. It is much appreciated.

[Chris Priestly]

SO that is the only outstanding question? I thought there was a list around here someplace?

[billy the squid]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I'm still trying to get a response to Origin and Mass Effect 3 for you.

I know there was a list of outstanding questions. Can someone post them again? I'm not promising I'll be able to get any or all of them answered, but I'm still working on it.

Thanks

I think the main points are:

1) Is constant Origin connection required or is it a single one off authentification when the game is first installed. Is there also a limit to the number of installations available.
2) Is there an opt in or opt out clause for data collection.
3) Forum bans on the EA forums, will they continue to lead to locking out user's games
4) Is Origin required for the retail versions of the game (I think it likely, but I'll pop it in anyway)
5) Has Origin's scanning protocols been updated to limit overt scanning.
6) Has the EULA been updated to reflect issues in Germany and is it applicable to the UK and the rest of the EU.

subsequent questions have been.

7) Will ME3 be available on Steam.

Modifié par billy the squid, 06 décembre 2011 - 10:49 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Chris Priestly wrote...

SO that is the only outstanding question? I thought there was a list around here someplace?

Lumikki posted above these two questions:

Is installing Origin client optional? (At least on DvD products)
Is data collection in Origin client voluntary?

And I want to point out that the "voluntary" is in the sense that we can still play the game and use Origin without it collecting any personal data NOT in the sense that we agree to the EULA kind of voluntary where the choice is either surrender all data or be unable the game we just bought.

[Chris Priestly]

Thansk Billy & DT. That's what I was looking for.

[Raygereio]

Chris Priestly wrote...
SO that is the only outstanding question? I thought there was a list around here someplace?

Don't know what's on that list, but here's what I came up with on the top of my head.

- Will Origin be the DRM scheme for ME3? Meaning: will it be mandatory to install it when you buy a non-digitlal, retail copy?
- Will future DLC be distributed through Origin? Meaning: even if it's not the DRM scheme for ME3, will you still be required to instal it if you want to buy DLC?
- If the answer to the above is no; What are the details of the DRM scheme ME3 will get instead.
- If the answer was yes:
  - Will a ban from this forum, suddenly mean you're blocked from playing ME3?
  - Will the EULA be changed so that EA is not giving themselves the permission to share information gathered though Origin with third parties? Yes, I know the EULA for Origin was changed to rephrase/remove certain offending paragraphs, however EA stated that in the case of a conflict their privacy policy takes precedent and (if I recall correctly) that states they can.share information.
  - Will the version of Origin that will ship with ME3 be changed in such a way that it is not accessing / reading / glancing-in-the-general-direction of any files on the consumer's hard drive without the permission of that consumer? Meaning: will we have the ability to say "No, you may not gather information for whatever reason and send to our EA Overlords"? And even if we do give permission, will it be clear just exactly what information will be send?

Modifié par Raygereio, 06 décembre 2011 - 11:00 .