3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

It sounds like EA feels very much backed into a corner and is trying to find a way out that doesn't involve actually giving in on anything non-superficial.

[CenturyCrow]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...
....that and I have been under the impression that Origin will be forced upon us that I went out and bought Skyrim...although Steam coupled with that was a major no no in my books, I can tolerate steam more or less...that may change though...frankly PC gaming is pissing me off, I might go back to consoleif things keep up.

I cancelled a pre-order for Deus Ex, a single player game because it needed Steam but I didn't want Steam. Had I known at the time I pre-ordered that it required Steam, I would have ignored it.

Luvinn wrote...
For me, if PC gaming continues to go down this 'forced spyware installation' route, then I will be forced to do something that I never thought would happen, namely buying a console for AAA titles.

Years ago I switched to the Playstation 3 because of all the cheating (not modding) on multiplayer games and all the pirating. I found the controller great for multiplayer games. But when I tried Dragon Age: Origins on the console, I bought the PC version and got the bonus of all the mods available.

SalsaDMA wrote...
As long as EA can change the EULA for Origin at a whim and thus hold any games connected to it as ransom for your acceptance, I won't be using any origin games.

I agree. SONY's ever-changing EULA and TOS for the Playstation killed console gaming for me. I wasn't sure it was my console anymore. Marketing killed TV for me.

I've said it and many others have said it; PC gaming isn't dying, it's being strangled by the big gaming companies. I'm tired of the EULAs and TOSs; dammit, Jim I'm a gamer not a lawyer. I'm tired of buying things that aren't mine. I am tired of all the console ports. For me, Origin is just another thing I don't want. I'll be patient for word on ME 3 but I think there is now a large disparity between what I expect in PC gaming and what I'm getting and what I'm not getting.

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 07 décembre 2011 - 10:58 .

[anzolino]

CenturyCrow wrote...
I'm a gamer not a lawyer.

LOL
"Shouldn't a game manual have more pages than a EULA?"
Actually there are 2 EULA's (Origin and Game) + TOS + Privacy Policy.
It's easier to buy a car now.

Modifié par anzolino, 07 décembre 2011 - 10:29 .

[SalsaDMA]

anzolino wrote...

CenturyCrow wrote...
I'm a gamer not a lawyer.

LOL
"Shouldn't a game manual have more pages than a EULA?"
Actually there are 2 EULA's (Origin and Game) + TOS + Privacy Policy.
It's easier to buy a car now.

Don't worry. Soon they'll figure out how to bundle Origin with your new car too. There's computers in those things after all...

[EternalPink]

Ford_Prefect wrote...

TheOrigin.de has posted a report of the meeting with EA in Cologne/Germany.

Whereas the majority of the site's content is - no surprise - in German, they put some effort into coming up with something in English, which is advantageous for international redristribution, looking at the the fact how many people are unfortunately stuck with only one languange or German not being amongst the languages they speak.

Here goes:  http://www.theorigin...rdpress/?p=2235

Cheers for the link, interesting read

I do sort of struggle to understand how EA do not know the consumers demands considering threads like this have been popping up all over the internet but then again perhaps they were not being totally honest when they said that.

[SalsaDMA]

EternalPink wrote...

Ford_Prefect wrote...

TheOrigin.de has posted a report of the meeting with EA in Cologne/Germany.

Whereas the majority of the site's content is - no surprise - in German, they put some effort into coming up with something in English, which is advantageous for international redristribution, looking at the the fact how many people are unfortunately stuck with only one languange or German not being amongst the languages they speak.

Here goes:  http://www.theorigin...rdpress/?p=2235

Cheers for the link, interesting read

I do sort of struggle to understand how EA do not know the consumers demands considering threads like this have been popping up all over the internet but then again perhaps they were not being totally honest when they said that.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are suffering from "corporatitis".
Ie. People at the top delegate out tasks, including getting feedback from customers.
Then they prob add in a system where people in the company gets rewarded for 'positive results', as in bonuses they get depends on how rosy-red they can make themselves appear to the peeps higher up.
Add enough chains between top and bottom where eqach chain report to the next chain in line (to keep overhead at the top to a managable level), and the picture the top will get is vastly different from how things actually look.

I've seen it happen in companies before.

[Killjoy Cutter]

"These people complaining must be a tiny but vocal minority! The focus groups told us that people would welcome a combined download service with features tailored to fit their habits and needs, and the marketing and PR people have put the word out about all the things Origin offers."

-- overheard at EA world HQ.

[FieryDove]

EternalPink wrote...

I do sort of struggle to understand how EA do not know the consumers demands considering threads like this have been popping up all over the internet but then again perhaps they were not being totally honest when they said that.

If you complain on the EA forums you have a high chance of getting banned...and locked out of your games forever. So it's no wonder they lack customer feedback.

Sorry Chris and all its true. Pet's launch was a disaster, bf3 launch was a disaster. Go buy some upcoming ea title (Not BW's) and become a mole. You will see.

[lucidfox]

SalsaDMA wrote...

I've seen it happen in companies before.

Not just in companies. In state politics too.

And well, that quote explains a lot. Basing implementation of such a far-reaching "feature" on the feedback of a small "focus group" composed of rosy-eyed loyalists got them nowhere.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

SalsaDMA wrote...

anzolino wrote...

CenturyCrow wrote...
I'm a gamer not a lawyer.

LOL
"Shouldn't a game manual have more pages than a EULA?"
Actually there are 2 EULA's (Origin and Game) + TOS + Privacy Policy.
It's easier to buy a car now.

Don't worry. Soon they'll figure out how to bundle Origin with your new car too. There's computers in those things after all...

Everytime you hop in your Fiat you have to sign into Origin where they watch you drive and record the music you listen to, your conversations and your speed/position. If you don't log into Origin...you can't drive your brand new Fiat 500.

[vader da slayer]

I'll just leave this here...
----------------------------------------------------
Q: What type of information does the Origin application collect?

EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully. In addition to information that you give EA directly when creating an Origin ID and profile, EA collects non-personally identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of software updates and dynamically served content, troubleshooting bugs and product support as well as communicating with you. This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in connection with your installation and use of Origin is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance with EA’s Privacy Policy. We do not sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor do we ever use spyware or install spyware on your machine. For more information, please review the Origin End User Licensing Agreement, which can be found here: http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas.
------------------------------------------------------
Q. Origin is not spyware, is it?

A. Origin is not spyware, and does not use or install spyware on user’s machines. In order to allow Origin to install games and their patches for everyone to use, Origin implements a permission change that results in Windows, not Origin, reviewing the filenames of every file in a directory and can have the appearance of a scan. This is an ordinary Windows function, not an information-gathering process – Origin is not scanning the directory, no information is accessed, collected, stored or shared by Origin during this process. However, we are aware that this process has created some customer confusion, and are updating our software in future releases to eliminate unnecessary operations. Consumer privacy is very important to EA and we take every precaution to protect our users’ data.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Does Origin access, collect or store information from my system?

A. Origin collects a limited amount of information needed to provide players with a service that allows them to purchase, download, access and play games and game content, connect online with other gamers and directly provide content and software updates. The information is also used to identify and fix software bugs as they arise. No information such as pictures, documents or other personal data unrelated to the application’s performance on a player’s system is accessed or collected. The collection and use of information by Origin helps ensure that consumers are able to access their games as easily as possible and are able to enjoy the best service and experience from EA.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Is my information secure with Origin/EA?
A. Yes – consumer privacy is very important to EA and we take every precaution to protect personal and anonymous user data. EA would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone. We do not share information that personally identifies you without your consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is compelled by law.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
copied from origins FAQ. saw this while looking up something else entirely.

Modifié par vader da slayer, 08 décembre 2011 - 08:04 .

[anzolino]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

anzolino wrote...

CenturyCrow wrote...
I'm a gamer not a lawyer.

LOL
"Shouldn't a game manual have more pages than a EULA?"
Actually there are 2 EULA's (Origin and Game) + TOS + Privacy Policy.
It's easier to buy a car now.

Don't worry. Soon they'll figure out how to bundle Origin with your new car too. There's computers in those things after all...

Everytime you hop in your Fiat you have to sign into Origin where they watch you drive and record the music you listen to, your conversations and your speed/position. If you don't log into Origin...you can't drive your brand new Fiat 500.

Uhhm? Get your car online? Last week I read this. Then I would prefer the new VIP mode of Origin and buy a Audi! You get a second key for it, your own independent key. I hope so.

SalsaDMA wrote...
Add enough chains between top and bottom where eqach chain report to the next chain in line (to keep overhead at the top to a managable level), and the picture the top will get is vastly different from how things actually look.

I've seen it happen in companies before.

Yes, me too. Some kind of system failure produces mysterious decisions. Not really funny.

@Edit

vader da slayer wrote...
I'll just leave this here...
...
copied from origins FAQ. saw this while looking up something else entirely.

2 EULA's (Origin and Game) + TOS + Privacy Policy + FAQ
Where was the game manual?
*sigh*

Modifié par anzolino, 08 décembre 2011 - 08:23 .

[Lumikki]

vader da slayer wrote...

I'll just leave this here...
----------------------------------------------------
Q: What type of information does the Origin application collect?
Q. Origin is not spyware, is it?
Q. Does Origin access, collect or store information from my system?
Q. Is my information secure with Origin/EA?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
copied from origins FAQ. saw this while looking up something else entirely.

Spyware is any software what collects information from consumers system what aren't related action what consumer it self is doing and sends that information outside of consumers system without consumers consent. Important to understand is that, what is private information for consumer is also defined by consumers it self, not companies.
 
Just because company thinks that some information is helpful for consumer and company, doesn't mean consumers will necessary agree that conclusion, because consumer can have different values than companies. Front of laws the data collection inside consumers private property is consumers decision as civil right, not anyone else. Companies can suggest what's relevant information for action to consumers, but the decision should be always in consumers hand. If it's not, then it's spyware.
 
Point been Origin client it self is spyware. Because player can't play games without giving up they computer privacy. The question of data collection was never made separated from ability play games.  Meaning if consumer wants to keep they computer privacy, company says, you can't then play games anymore. That's not reasonable request and breaks consumers civil rights. Company aren't allowed by laws to force player to give up they computer privacy just because consumers wants to play games.

Modifié par Lumikki, 08 décembre 2011 - 10:13 .

[Shepard the Leper]

The end of Origin (in the EU) is at hand!  (long live the EU - lol). Draft legislation, which will pave the way for the new European Data Protection Directive, is set to be announced in January.

A harsh field of measures lies ahead for businesses working within the confines of Europe. Companies, even if they are headquartered in the U.S. or another third-country to Europe, could face extreme financial repercussions if they are found to break the new legislation.

The regulation will become applicable in all 27 member states immediately. The directive will need to be transposed into member states’ law through local parliaments.

Some highlights:


[*]Companies outside Europe — such as the United States — will continue to be subject to European law, if they have a European-based office, or European customers.

[*]Opt-in consent will be made obligatory. This relates mostly to data processing for marketing, but this will require explicit consent to the data owner before companies can perform such actions.

[*]If a company suffers a data loss or breach, both the data protection authority and the individuals must be informed within 24 hours of discovering the breach.

[*]The Commission will be granted the power to issue interpreting provisions of the regulation, allowing member states to delegate high-level cases directly to the European powerhouse.

[*]The reforms will effectively replace EU/U.S. Safe Harbor regulations, and instead companies will be issued “adequacy” statements, allowing European companies to transfer data to their non-European counterparts.

This would make it illegal for the U.S. government, for example, to invoke the Patriot Act on a company like Microsoft or Google, or any other cloud-based or data processing company, in efforts acquire data held in the UK. The member states’ data protection agency with authority over the company’s European headquarters would have to agree to the data transfer.

If any of these rules are broken, member states’ data protection authorities will be able to impose sanctions, which can range up to a maximum of 5 percent of a company’s annual worldwide turnover.

As of June this year, Microsoft could be fined up to around $1.1 billion per incident, if it were found to be in breach of the draft data protection legislation. Google could equally be fined $430 million per breach.

source: www.zdnet.com/blog/london/european-data-protection-law-proposals-revealed/1365

This means that software like Origin and Steam will become optional (EA and Valve have no right to demand installation without the consumer's consent). Any additional data-mining (without consent) will result in massive fines. It also has to be completely clear which data is collected, why, and to whom it will be sold. Furthermore, consumers who gave permission to have their data collected can demand companies to delete all collected data (including everything they've already sold). This is quite impossible, but it does force companies to handle their collected info with the utmost care to prevent future incidents should their customers change their minds (it's called "the right to be forgotten" in the draft ).

Let's hope this will be in effect around March 2012 eh

Modifié par Shepard the Leper, 08 décembre 2011 - 11:41 .

[MassStorm]

Cool but your interpretation is quite forced because they just say they cannot collect data without your consent, but this does not prevent EA or Valve to make installation of Origin/Steam mandatory it will just give you the option to opt out the scanning of your computer from said programs

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

"The collection and use of information by Origin helps ensure that consumers are able to access their games as easily as possible "
From the faq posted above.
Wouldn't it be easier for consumers to access their games without having Origin at all?

[shepskisaac]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

The end of Origin (in the EU) is at hand! (long live the EU - lol). Draft legislation, which will pave the way for the new European Data Protection Directive, is set to be announced in January.

Good 'ol sis EU coming to the rescue! I knew they would save us

Modifié par IsaacShep, 08 décembre 2011 - 11:59 .

[MassStorm]

Guys you should not get over-excited they do not force EA not to use Origin on their games they just make data collection with Origin optional. Ultimately you will need Origin at least for multiplayer so as much as it is good not to have Origin scanning your PC for info this does not mean Origin would not be required.

Modifié par MassStorm, 08 décembre 2011 - 12:04 .

[shepskisaac]

MassStorm wrote...

Guys you should not get over-excited they do not force EA not to use Origin on their games they just make data collection with Origin optional.

The data mining is what people had the biggest problem with.

[Nahal The Reckless]

So, EA is going to be forced to make Origin's data mining optional?  Three cheers for the EU!  I can only hope they (EA) also make it optional for those living outside the EU too.

Also:

Chris Priestly wrote...

I'm still trying to get a response to Origin and Mass Effect 3 for you.

I
know there was a list of outstanding questions. Can someone post them
again? I'm not promising I'll be able to get any or all of them
answered, but I'm still working on it.

Thanks


[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Thank you for the update, Mr. Priestly.  It's good to know that the issue is at least still being looked into, even if answers aren't available yet.

[MassStorm]

Now that this issue is solved the new question is: Will the EU survive long enough as an entity to implement these measures?  ......just joking.......

Modifié par MassStorm, 08 décembre 2011 - 12:26 .

[Shepard the Leper]

MassStorm wrote...

Guys you should not get over-excited they do not force EA not to use Origin on their games they just make data collection with Origin optional. Ultimately you will need Origin at least for multiplayer so as much as it is good not to have Origin scanning your PC for info this does not mean Origin would not be required.

What's the point for EA to use Origin when they can't data-mine?

I also think Origin (and Steam) will become useless concerning DRM. In fact, most DRM will be "illegal" since those systems check (collect data) whether or not you're using a legit copy. Without permission most of the current DRM systems will not be able to do their thing anyway.

I'm not an optimist, but even the most depressed pessimist should feel a little cheerful about this draft. It's a massive improvement of privacy and a major blow to the power of the big companies. How things are going to work out practically is yet to be seen, but Origin in its current form has to go or EA will be bankrupt within a day or two

[Mister Mida]

MassStorm wrote...

Guys you should not get over-excited they do not force EA not to use Origin on their games they just make data collection with Origin optional. Ultimately you will need Origin at least for multiplayer so as much as it is good not to have Origin scanning your PC for info this does not mean Origin would not be required.

Indeed. As long as Steam and Origin are required to play a game I'm not gonna throw my hands in the air out of joy. But I'll be happy for the sake of privacy protection.

[CenturyCrow]

Shepard the Leper wrote...
The end of Origin (in the EU) is at hand!  (long live the EU - lol). Draft legislation, which will pave the way for the new European Data Protection Directive, is set to be announced in January.

Thanks for the post. Good news that's worth celebrating, if only for Europe. Will be interesting to follow the REAPERcussions of this.

The rest of the world may have to wait a lot longer. Unfortunately for North America, there's not a lot of consumer protection available; usually the government yeilds to big business demands with astringent copyright protection, digital locks and DRM, SOPA, ACTA, etc. If European retail packages won't have Origin, we may see a rise in regional locked software.

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 08 décembre 2011 - 12:38 .

[Lumikki]

Nahal The Reckless wrote...

So, EA is going to be forced to make Origin's data mining optional?  Three cheers for the EU!  I can only hope they (EA) also make it optional for those living outside the EU too.

Your "hope" is actually interesting question. Because let see, if Origin client data mining is optional in EU, but not outside of the EU. Then what would that tell us about EA's business politics?

For me it says, that company does ANYTING they want as long it doesn't break laws. I think that would be really bad business decission, because how can we consumers trust companies what is kept in check just by laws. I mean most of us customers knows what's right and wrong, we don't even need laws for that.

Origin client should be optional everyone in the world.

Good business is about giving others freedom of choice, not force them to do what they don't really like.