3140 réponses à ce sujet

[billy the squid]

shep82 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

shep82 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Jarys wrote...

This thread is full of the 'vocal minority.' The very noisy but loud percentage that demands change, usually through threats and/or attempts at blackmail. They have been around on most official game forums for a long time. Given how many hundreds of thousands of copies of this game sell on PC, and how many games that have constant connection requirements, be it through steam or other gaming platforms, you all just need to realize that you may eventually have to move out of your bubble of security and move into the future. Progress isn't always butterflies and rainbows, you take the bad with the good (though I really still don't see what all the crying is about).

Yep, because Ubisofts 90% decline in PC sales after implementing the always online DRM requirement is quite clearly a winning formula.

Which they got rid of shortly after and their sales rebounded.

Really? That was fast, as their latest debacle with Dust and Driver still had the DRM which required online log in every time upon launch, not a great solution either, as it was still massively criticised, Whilst Ubisoft's own decline was stated in the interview, at the beginning of October of this year when an independent analyst stated the figure for the decline.

So unless it has rebounded increadibly quickly, I don't think Ubisoft putting online requirement for launch repairs any bridges.

I didn't know that. I was going off of how they patched that requirement in two of their games. I hope they realize they need to do something different.

It is becoming a major issue with Ubisoft. 90% decline in PC sales and no corresponding rise in console sales is bad. I believe that they are in a position, where many of the PC versions have been criticised for being a poor console port saddled with horrendous DRM. Yet, they persist in using it, despite hackers repeatedly breaching it within days of launch. It's becoming akin to bunker mentality, time will tell if they change their approach.

[Taciter]

[quote]shep82 wrote...
[quote]IsaacShep wrote...
I have to agree with Shep 82 that Origin is no worse than Steam.[/quote]So the fact you can opt-out from Steam's datamining but you can't do the same is irrelevant?[/quote]Yes because they are mining the exact same thing and none of it is privledged information.[/quote]
[quote]billy the squid wrote...
Really, have you actually read the data from the process monitor whilst running both programs? Or is this Steam and Origin assumption based on what? Personally I don't like Steam much more than Origin, although it makes some vague attempt regarding self restriction, Origin simply goes a step further.[/quote]

[shep82]

billy the squid wrote...

shep82 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

shep82 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Jarys wrote...

This thread is full of the 'vocal minority.' The very noisy but loud percentage that demands change, usually through threats and/or attempts at blackmail. They have been around on most official game forums for a long time. Given how many hundreds of thousands of copies of this game sell on PC, and how many games that have constant connection requirements, be it through steam or other gaming platforms, you all just need to realize that you may eventually have to move out of your bubble of security and move into the future. Progress isn't always butterflies and rainbows, you take the bad with the good (though I really still don't see what all the crying is about).

Yep, because Ubisofts 90% decline in PC sales after implementing the always online DRM requirement is quite clearly a winning formula.

Which they got rid of shortly after and their sales rebounded.

Really? That was fast, as their latest debacle with Dust and Driver still had the DRM which required online log in every time upon launch, not a great solution either, as it was still massively criticised, Whilst Ubisoft's own decline was stated in the interview, at the beginning of October of this year when an independent analyst stated the figure for the decline.

So unless it has rebounded increadibly quickly, I don't think Ubisoft putting online requirement for launch repairs any bridges.

I didn't know that. I was going off of how they patched that requirement in two of their games. I hope they realize they need to do something different.

It is becoming a major issue with Ubisoft. 90% decline in PC sales and no corresponding rise in console sales is bad. I believe that they are in a position, where many of the PC versions have been criticised for being a poor console port saddled with horrendous DRM. Yet, they persist in using it, despite hackers repeatedly breaching it within days of launch. It's becoming akin to bunker mentality, time will tell if they change their approach.

I hope so because I want them to finish one of my favorite franchises. (AC)

[shep82]

[quote]Taciter wrote...

[quote]shep82 wrote...
[quote]IsaacShep wrote...
I have to agree with Shep 82 that Origin is no worse than Steam.[/quote]So the fact you can opt-out from Steam's datamining but you can't do the same is irrelevant?[/quote]Yes because they are mining the exact same thing and none of it is privledged information.[/quote]
[quote]billy the squid wrote...
Really, have you actually read the data from the process monitor whilst running both programs? Or is this Steam and Origin assumption based on what? Personally I don't like Steam much more than Origin, although it makes some vague attempt regarding self restriction, Origin simply goes a step further.[/quote][/quote]
True I havent used Origin yet so I can't be 100% but from what I've read it's the same.

[Taciter]

billy the squid wrote...
It is becoming a major issue with Ubisoft. 90% decline in PC sales and no corresponding rise in console sales is bad. I believe that they are in a position, where many of the PC versions have been criticised for being a poor console port saddled with horrendous DRM. Yet, they persist in using it, despite hackers repeatedly breaching it within days of launch. It's becoming akin to bunker mentality, time will tell if they change their approach.

I think this pretty much sums it up!

I predict Ubisoft's fall from grace will be cited as a prescient cautionary tale - 'Pride comes before a fall'

[Taciter]

shep82 wrote...
True I havent used Origin yet so I can't be 100% but from what I've read it's the same.

You might want to have a little read of this article - EA’s Origin EULA Proves Even More Sinister

Modifié par Taciter, 28 octobre 2011 - 12:10 .

[billy the squid]

shep82 wrote...

Taciter wrote...

shep82 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
I have to agree with Shep 82 that Origin is no worse than Steam.

So the fact you can opt-out from Steam's datamining but you can't do the same is irrelevant?

Yes because they are mining the exact same thing and none of it is privledged information.

billy the squid wrote...
Really, have you actually read the data from the process monitor whilst running both programs? Or is this Steam and Origin assumption based on what? Personally I don't like Steam much more than Origin, although it makes some vague attempt regarding self restriction, Origin simply goes a step further.

True I havent used Origin yet so I can't be 100% but from what I've read it's the same.

I have the data from the process monitor lying around somewhere, Steam and Origin do function differently in what they scan and how they work. Steam's sytem is intrusive, and I don't defend it or give it a ringing endorsement, but it seems limited to the registry keys and executables.

Origin is different in what it actually scans, namely ProgramData folders among other things, but it appears very vague as to what it actually is looking for, so it scans whole sections of the computer. In addition you have to read the EULA in conjunction with the privacy policy which overides it.

Contract law is fun eh!

Modifié par billy the squid, 28 octobre 2011 - 12:14 .

[shep82]

Taciter wrote...

shep82 wrote...
True I havent used Origin yet so I can't be 100% but from what I've read it's the same.

You might want to have a little read of this article - EA’s Origin EULA Proves Even More Sinister

Nothing that I didn't already know. I still think people are overreacting.

[BloodyTalon]

This talk still going on? I thought all ea accounts where going to be converted to origins sooner or later.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Talosred wrote...

This talk still going on? I thought all ea accounts where going to be converted to origins sooner or later.

Origin account != Origin software (spyware, to be precise).

[Killjoy Cutter]

billy the squid wrote...

I have the data from the process monitor lying around somewhere, Steam and Origin do function differently in what they scan and how they work. Steam's sytem is intrusive, and I don't defend it or give it a ringing endorsement, but it seems limited to the registry keys and executables.

Origin is different in what it actually scans, namely ProgramData folders among other things, but it appears very vague as to what it actually is looking for, so it scans whole sections of the computer. In addition you have to read the EULA in conjunction with the privacy policy which overides it.

Contract law is fun eh!

Those of you who believe that Origin is just another download manager and no big deal should probably stop and consider the above.  For a while.  Until it really sinks in. 

[shepskisaac]

Talosred wrote...

This talk still going on? I thought all ea accounts where going to be converted to origins sooner or later.

This is not about Origin accounts. This is about the Origin application, the client that may have to be downloaded in order to play ME3. It's the client that does all the data mining, not the account.

[BloodyTalon]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Talosred wrote...

This talk still going on? I thought all ea accounts where going to be converted to origins sooner or later.

Origin account != Origin software (spyware, to be precise).

What else is new from ea its going to happen to any accounts tied to ea sooo not sure what  can be done about it.

[BloodyTalon]

IsaacShep wrote...

Talosred wrote...

This talk still going on? I thought all ea accounts where going to be converted to origins sooner or later.

This is not about Origin accounts. This is about the Origin application, the client that may have to be downloaded in order to play ME3. It's the client that does all the data mining, not the account.

Yeah good point in the pass some ea stuff has set off spyware software on my computer

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

shep82 wrote...

Taciter wrote...

shep82 wrote...
True I havent used Origin yet so I can't be 100% but from what I've read it's the same.

You might want to have a little read of this article - EA’s Origin EULA Proves Even More Sinister

Nothing that I didn't already know. I still think people are overreacting.

EA in general has already proven they'll do anything for profit, and that they have an unstable set of company doctrines.



That said, if Origin is required for Mass Effect 3, I'll still buy the game. I won't install it until I get an extra computer that can be a totally blank slate for the installation of trojan-like programs such as Origin... or unless another, more technical solution presents itself. But it will be the last BioWare product I ever buy for PC, and by extension most likely the last BioWare product I buy period. The Dragon Age franchise has already completely destroyed itself in my eyes, and I'll never play an MMO, so I won't really be missing out on anything. No matter how tempting future franchises are, there are plenty of games on my backlog, plenty I can replay, and plenty I can look forward to playing that will not be actively trying to screw me over.

In other words, it is my hope that Mass Effect 3 is Origin-optional. I won't support that dastardly program.

[Taciter]

shep82 wrote...
Nothing that I didn't already know. I still think people are overreacting.

According to your innocent, uncorrupted mind perhaps but for those of us who recognise the ruthless nature of commerce, the development of a game client that demands consent to such ambiguous terms, can simply not be benign.

Talosred wrote...
This talk still going on? I thought all ea accounts where going to be converted to origins sooner or later.

That may well be true but Origin accounts and Origin game clients are two different animals.

[billy the squid]

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

That said, if Origin is required for Mass Effect 3, I'll still buy the game. I won't install it until I get an extra computer that can be a totally blank slate for the installation of trojan-like programs such as Origin... or unless another, more technical solution presents itself. But it will be the last BioWare product I ever buy for PC, and by extension most likely the last BioWare product I buy period. The Dragon Age franchise has already completely destroyed itself in my eyes, and I'll never play an MMO, so I won't really be missing out on anything. No matter how tempting future franchises are, there are plenty of games on my backlog, plenty I can replay, and plenty I can look forward to playing that will not be actively trying to screw me over.

In other words, it is my hope that Mass Effect 3 is Origin-optional. I won't support that dastardly program.

There are some rather capable tech chaps on here and on the web, which are trying to come up with solutions to Origin. Keep an eye out on the web, Sandibox may be an option, but a lot of how to stop the scans, or evade it, is still a working progress.

[DownyTif]

shep82 wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

ColorMeSuprised wrote...

Same goes for me: If ME3 needs a constant online connection and if I have to download half of the game from Origin to play it because they only put half on the DVD, I will not buy it. I have never used Steam and I will never use Origin. Period.

This. ME3 is one of my most anticipated games ever, but there are things that are simply unacceptable.

Then you will miss out. Even if they do this (I doubt it) I hardly call that unnacceptable.

You don't mean that do you? A single player game on a PC... really don't think people hating Origin will miss out ME3... Bioware will only hurt themselves if Origin is required.

Modifié par DownyTif, 28 octobre 2011 - 02:34 .

[didymos1120]

DownyTif wrote...

You don't mean that do you? A single player game on a PC... really don't think people hating Origin will miss out ME3... Bioware will only hurt themselves if Origin is required.

It's not really up to the people in the Bioware studio.  It's up to the upper management of EA.  People in Bioware can certainly try and make a case for not requiring it, but if their bosses say "It's in", it's in.

[AdmiralCheez]

I am still praying that I'll only need to be logged in for the initial verification.

[Lumikki]

DownyTif wrote...

shep82 wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

ColorMeSuprised wrote...

Same goes for me: If ME3 needs a constant online connection and if I have to download half of the game from Origin to play it because they only put half on the DVD, I will not buy it. I have never used Steam and I will never use Origin. Period.

This. ME3 is one of my most anticipated games ever, but there are things that are simply unacceptable.

Then you will miss out. Even if they do this (I doubt it) I hardly call that unnacceptable.

You don't mean that do you? A single player game on a PC... really don't think people hating Origin will miss out ME3... Bioware will only hurt themselves if Origin is required.

Yes, some of us will not even buy ME3 if Origin is forced install without ability remove it. Why it's so hard to believe?

I don't need to play games, I play for fun, but I NEVER sacriface my privacy and security because my entertainment.

It's not about hating. It's about privacy and security of your computer and your self. If we people just let others to do what ever they want to us, then we deserve everyting what's comming to us. Oh, nothing bad has happen yet to me, it's really bad excuse to be careless with you security and privacy.

Modifié par Lumikki, 28 octobre 2011 - 06:27 .

[Taciter]

Lumikki wrote...
Yes, some of us will not even buy ME3 if Origin is forced install without ability remove it. Why it's so hard to believe?

I don't need to play games, I play for fun, but I NEVER sacriface my privacy and security because my entertainment.

It's not about hating. It's about privacy and security of your computer and your self. If we people just let others to do what ever they want to us, then we deserve everyting what's comming to us. Oh, nothing bad has happen yet to me, it's really bad excuse to be careless with you security and privacy.

I totally agree Lumikki - it's not about concealing a guilty conscience, it's about having sufficient self-respect to acknowledge that we aren't just wholesale statistics.

Commercial entities may treat us like so many pigs in an abattoir but whilst some pigs blindly follow the farmer because 'that's the way the world is going', other, more canny pigs know when it's time to jump paddock. Social networking/multiplaying may have started out as an ideological vision of an emancipated global society but in an information age, capitalism was bound to find a way to corrupt it - I suspect that one day, privacy will become the most sought after commodity of all.

[Soul Cool]

Taciter wrote...

shep82 wrote...
True I havent used Origin yet so I can't be 100% but from what I've read it's the same.

You might want to have a little read of this article - EA’s Origin EULA Proves Even More Sinister

"Here, data mine all you want. All you're going to see is me. Yep, just me. Buying things not made by your company."

And the "Look at the EULA, it has things that hysterical people can be hysterical about without really worrying if they are actually true!" hysterics are pretty old. This is nothing new. This is nothing even slightly interesting. It is totally overblown, and very counterproductive to what the actual applications of the EULA are.

[hangmans tree]

I [edited - slow internet ninjitsu]
I was gonna buy BF3, almost did. I stumbled upon the Origin subject. red all that I could to make a decision. I really wanted that game, you see, I like realistic shooters and I have a nice new rig to bathe in all its splendors... but I wont enter this pool of cess on my own free will. after a long monologue we decided not to buy BF3.
I bought Space Marine instead lots of fun. Addictive ... almost.

As for ME3, ... well, I love me RPGs, it would be a tragic course of action if I had to resort to drastic measures... drastic FOR ME (missing a whole lot of content), EA doesn't give a fu©k about the likes of me anyway.

Modifié par hangmans tree, 28 octobre 2011 - 07:43 .

[Wittand25]

billy the squid wrote...
It is becoming a major issue with Ubisoft. 90% decline in PC sales and no corresponding rise in console sales is bad. I believe that they are in a position, where many of the PC versions have been criticised for being a poor console port saddled with horrendous DRM. Yet, they persist in using it, despite hackers repeatedly breaching it within days of launch. It's becoming akin to bunker mentality, time will tell if they change their approach.

Actually they stopped using the launcher. Heroes 6 does not use it and can be played offline otherwise I would not have bought it even though I am a great fan of the franchise.

Right now they use soft pressure for the player to be online by offering some benefits from being logged in while playing but other than an online activation after the installation a connection to the internet is no longer required.