3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

Okey, do you understand when you install the software and start it. Software can scan you hole computer and everyting else in it and send everyting they want to the company. It takes only one connection.

[Soul Cool]

Lumikki wrote...

Okey, do you understand when you install the software and start it. Software can scan you hole computer and everyting else in it and send everyting they want to the company.

Considering most computer can't even search their entire hard drive in the time it takes you to establish, maintain (and do whatever task you wanted), and terminate your connection, that is pretty remarkable, yes.

Lumikki wrote...
It takes only one connection.

"Hey, there's this live connection on my computer, that's sending inordinate amounts of data, going to some place, and I have no idea what it is for. I guess I'll just leave it alone. :wizard:"

Modifié par Soul Cool, 28 octobre 2011 - 10:23 .

[Taciter]

Soul Cool wrote...
I'm pretty sure it's an always-on platform for multiplay. I don't know enough about the program itself to definitvely state that it is not "always on" for single play, but in my (unique) expereince, this is not the case.

Okay... that's interesting, certainly food for thought!

Lumikki wrote...

Taciter wrote...
I was under the impression that this entire debacle was due to the perceived notion that ME3 (amongst other forthcoming EA titles) would require Origin to act as a persistent, always-online, DRM platform as opposed to a simple one-time activation applet.

It's little bit both.
Meaning while many are fine one time activation requirement and agaist to be forced Origin to be online. It's only one time connection required, to snoop everyting from you computer. So, this is also about agaist snooping in general. I'm my self fine with one time registration of you legal copy as DRM. But that isn't same as snooping everyting from you computer and it takes only one time to do that.

Ooookay, I think the hazy fog of ignorance is starting to clear. So the chief concern is that Origin's 'one-time acivation' check goes beyond the remit of acceptable snoopery by encompassing the contents of an entire HDD as opposed to just the designated clusters pertaining specifically to the EA title in question?

If that IS the case then I can see why people might be a bit miffed at the presumption - I suppose it would be akin to a customs official demanding that you strip off to your birthday suit in order to prove that your sunglasses weren't stolen.

Modifié par Taciter, 28 octobre 2011 - 10:26 .

[Lumikki]

Soul Cool wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Okey, do you understand when you install the software and start it. Software can scan you hole computer and everyting else in it and send everyting they want to the company.

Considering most computer can't even search their entire hard drive in the time it takes you to establish, maintain (and do whatever taks you wanted), and terminate your connection, that is pretty remarkable, yes.

Why you think they would need to scan hard drive?
All information what they want is in Windows register file and softwares settings files. That's very small amount of data.

[Soul Cool]

Taciter wrote...
Ooookay, I think the hazy fog of ignorance is starting to clear. So the chief concern is that Origin's 'one-time acivation' check goes beyond the remit of acceptable snoopery by encompassing the contents of an entire HDD as opposed to just the designated clusters pertaining specifically to the EA title in question?

But it really isn't. This would basically cripple the functionality of Origins. (Not that I believe that it is a good program. It is pretty bad function-wise.) You wouldn't even be able to load it because your PC would be busy chewing through your HDD/SSD to, well, "send it off to the EA overlords" or whatever. Which is baically impossible for most regular users. They don't have the bandwidth or a PC capable of doing such a thing. And the people that do have access to both of those things should know better.

Taciter wrote...
If that IS the case then I can see why people might be a bit miffed at the presumption - I suppose it would be akin to a customs official demanding that you strip off to your birthday suit in order to prove that your sunglasses weren't stolen.

To make it even better, you have to play one of Mozart's compositions one handed on a grand piano while stripping.

Modifié par Soul Cool, 28 octobre 2011 - 10:32 .

[Soul Cool]

Lumikki wrote...
Why you think they would need to scan hard drive?
All information what they want is in Windows register file and softwares settings files. That's very small amount of data.

So you admit they're taking useless data that has literally zero relevance to your actual privacy? Good to know.

[Lumikki]

Soul Cool wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
Why you think they would need to scan hard drive?
All information what they want is in Windows register file and softwares settings files. That's very small amount of data.

So you admit they're taking useless data that has literally zero relevance to your actual privacy? Good to know.

What hell are you smoking?
Those data is my actual privacy.

[Soul Cool]

Lumikki wrote...

Soul Cool wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
Why you think they would need to scan hard drive?
All information what they want is in Windows register file and softwares settings files. That's very small amount of data.

So you admit they're taking useless data that has literally zero relevance to your actual privacy? Good to know.

What hell are you smoking?
Those data is my actual privacy.

The only relevant data in there are things that a conventional program cannot gain access to. If EA is attempting to gain access to any system critical files (i.e. SAM), they are violating several laws and subject to basically the wrath of god descending on them in the form of very unpleasent federal agents (at least in the United States). They are not that stupid. If they are, EA will very shortly cease to exist because there are too many computer literate people playing their games.

Edit: I give up. Let me go find my tinfoil hat.

Modifié par Soul Cool, 28 octobre 2011 - 10:39 .

[Taciter]

Soul Cool wrote...
But it really isn't. This would basically cripple the functionality of Origins. (Not that I believe that it is a good program. It is pretty bad function-wise.) You wouldn't even be able to load it because your PC would be busy chewing through your HDD/SSD to, well, "send it off to the EA overlords" or whatever. Which is bsically impossible for most regular users. They don't have the bandwidth or a PC capable of doing such a thing. And the people that do have access to both of those things should know better.

Hmmm.. an equally valid point, I suppose then the only question that remains is which registry entries can/will Origin check and report?

Just attempting to play the Devil's advocate here. I dont like its whiff but I'd be a fool to make a definitive judgement without posession fo the full facts.

Soul Cool wrote...

Taciter wrote...
If that IS the case then I can see why people might be a bit miffed at the presumption - I suppose it would be akin to a customs official demanding that you strip off to your birthday suit in order to prove that your sunglasses weren't stolen.

To make it even better, you have to play one of Mozart's compositions one handed on a grand piano while stripping.

Hahaha... now that would make a very entertaining interlude!

Modifié par Taciter, 28 octobre 2011 - 10:45 .

[Soul Cool]

Taciter wrote...
Hmmm.. an equally valid point, I suppose then the only question that remains is which registry entries can/will Origin check and report?

Just attempting to play the Devil's advocate here. I dont like its whiff but I'd be a fool to make a definitive judgement without posession fo the full facts.

I just can't understand the logic behind this. Large, legitimate companies do not do this. It requires a monumental failure on all levels of implementation to decide that what people are talking about is a good idea. This can literally destroy your company forever for what cannot be defined as a "gain".

[Taciter]

Soul Cool wrote...
The only relevant data in there are things that a conventional program cannot gain access to. If EA is attempting to gain access to any system critical files (i.e. SAM), they are violating several laws and subject to basically the wrath of god descending on them in the form of very unpleasent federal agents (at least in the United States). They are not that stupid. If they are, EA will very shortly cease to exist because there are too many computer literate people playing their games.

Edit: I give up. Let me go find my tinfoil hat.

I must say, you've made a very good case Soul Cool. Being inherantly distrusting of all publisher specific content delivery platforms, I can't guarantee that I'll ever embrace Origin but I don't think anyone else could have contributed such an articulate defence.

Modifié par Taciter, 28 octobre 2011 - 10:46 .

[Soul Cool]

Taciter wrote...
I must say, you've made a very good case Soul Cool. Being inherantly distrusting of all publisher specific content delivery platforms, I can't guarantee that I'll ever embrace Origin but I don't think anyone else could have contributed such an articulate defence.

Now I am not sure if you are trolling me or not. People never compliment my posting on the BSN.

[Taciter]

Soul Cool wrote...
Now I am not sure if you are trolling me or not. People never compliment my posting on the BSN.

Hahaha.. that's probably because they're too busy wiping the egg white from their eyes!

[Soul Cool]

Taciter wrote...

Soul Cool wrote...
Now I am not sure if you are trolling me or not. People never compliment my posting on the BSN.

Hahaha.. that's probably because they're too busy wiping the egg white from their eyes!

Well, thanks, I suppose. I don't recommend trusting publishers as much as seems to be the case here, but I'm a little sick of the "EA is out to steal all of your personal information!" hype.

[Lumikki]

No-one here is saying that EA is stealing all personal informaton. How ever, what we do say is that EA is collecting way too much information than it's needed for they game business and breaking too much our rights for privacy.

Here is copy from Origin Digital distribution wiki:

Wiki ...

Sharing of personal information

EA's Origin has recently come under criticism for deciding to share any and all available information they collect from your PC to third party vendors, as long as you agree to install their application.[25][26] The two specific sections of the EULA drawing criticism were sections 2 and 3.[25]

Section 2 was interpreted to grant EA the right to log data on application usage, IP addresses, operating system usage, installation and removal of software, and usage of software and peripheral hardware.[27]

Section 3 stated that using the software allowed them to monitor your activity: “EA reserves the right to monitor communications on the Application and disclose any information EA deems necessary to (i) ensure your compliance with this License; (ii) satisfy any applicable law, regulation or legal process; (iii) protect the rights, property and interests of EA, its employees or the public. EA also reserves the right to edit, refuse to transfer and/or to remove any information or materials, in whole or in part, in EA’s sole discretion.”[27]

On August 24 2011, EA revised its End User License Agreement, removing several of the controversial sections.[28] They released a statement saying that they had no intention to sell marketing data to third parties, nor install software akin to spyware on its customers PCs.[28] The specific changes to the EULA removed EA's right to transfer collected personally identifiable data to third party users.[28] However, Origin's EULA states that if there is a conflict with EA's Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall prevail. EA's Privacy Policy gives EA rights to share anonymous non personal information with third parties. [29]

EA has also received criticism for a clause within the company's privacy policy, stating that "By accepting these terms, you and EA expressly waive the right to a trial by jury or to participate in a class action.". [30] This clause has caused significant distress within the gaming community, with many fearing that the above clause is a pre-emtive attempt by EA to prevent legal action over the distribution of private information via its Origin platform

Point been many of us don't like how much information is collected, because what's inside our computer is private matter.

Modifié par Lumikki, 28 octobre 2011 - 11:06 .

[Taciter]

Soul Cool wrote...
Well, thanks, I suppose. I don't recommend trusting publishers as much as seems to be the case here, but I'm a little sick of the "EA is out to steal all of your personal information!" hype.

Oh sure, we all have a tendancy to exaggerate from time to time but I've always believed in the addage that 'there's no smoke without fire'.

Lumikki wrote...
No-one here is saying that EA is stealing all personal informaton. How ever, what do say that EA is collecting way too much information than it's needed for they game business and breaking too much our rights for privacy.

Here is copy from Origin Digital distribution wiki:

Wiki...
Sharing of personal information

EA's Origin has recently come under criticism for deciding to share any and all available information they collect from your PC to third party vendors, as long as you agree to install their application.[25][26] The two specific sections of the EULA drawing criticism were sections 2 and 3...

...[30] This clause has caused significant distress within the gaming community, with many fearing that the above clause is a pre-emtive attempt by EA to prevent legal action over the distribution of private information via its Origin platform

Yet another salient contribution. You're both making excellent arguments here so I can't see how/why it's so difficult to reconcile them.

Perhaps it's because you're both looking at the issue from perpendicular perspectives, Soul is assessing the practical evidence of Origin's mechanics and Lumikki is assessing the theoretical implications of Origin's EULA.

In essence, your arguments don't necessarilly contradict each other. Soul is focusing on the present and Lumikki is focusing on the future.

Modifié par Taciter, 28 octobre 2011 - 11:13 .

[Soul Cool]

Lumikki wrote...
No-one here is saying that EA is stealing all personal informaton. How ever, what do say that EA is collecting way too much information than it's needed for they game business and breaking too much our rights for privacy.

Stipulations in an EULA that are not legal cannot be enforced. Feel free to challenge it in a legal setting if you feel that strongly about it.

Lumikki wrote...
Point been many of us don't like how much information is collected, because what's inside our computer is private matter.

Then give up on the Internet. Unhook your computer, destroy your credit cards/bank cards, never shop at a business that does not take cash, and change your name along with every other facet of your life. If you care that much about your personal information not escaping your grasp, you have failed just by connecting to the Internet.

Modifié par Soul Cool, 28 octobre 2011 - 11:09 .

[FDrage]

[quote]Soul Cool wrote...
Now I am not sure if you are trolling me or not. People never compliment my posting on the BSN. [/quote]Hahaha.. that's probably because they're too busy wiping the egg white from their eyes![/quote]
Well, thanks, I suppose. I don't recommend trusting publishers as much as seems to be the case here, but I'm a little sick of the "EA is out to steal all of your personal information!" hype.

[/quote]

The problem is so that some people are also sick of "EA (or other publishers) do nothing wrong and nothing to worry about it because the same thing has been done before. and I have nothing to hide so therefore they can have everything the want". Oki I've overstated it a bit ... but hopefully it can make my point

Would be good for any party involved to see the other side of tge fence as well ... but some people are incapable of doing so ...

Modifié par FDrage, 28 octobre 2011 - 11:13 .

[DiegoProgMetal]

Origin's been installed in my pc since june or july. I'm still alive, nothing has changed in my life, and nothing will change.

About the jury and class action thing, at least here (Brazil) they can't do that. They can't bend the laws. It would be something like I give somebody a contract that states: "You agree that I have the right to kill you and still not go to jail..." Even if the person signs it, if I kill that person, you may be sure I'm going to jail.

I ordered ME3 DDE, and Battlefield 3 through Origin... I play the BF3 mp with origin running, if I close it, the game also closes... The SAME happens to the sp campaign.

Anyway, as I said, it's been installed for half a year, and nothing wrong has happened.

[Soul Cool]

FDrage wrote...
The problem is so that some people are also sick of "EA (or other publishers) do nothing wrong and nothing to worry about it because the same thing has been done before. and I have nothing to hide so therefore they can have everything the want". Oki I've overstated it a bit ... but hopefully it can make my point

I have never said that EA can do no wrong. I believe that EA does wrong things all the time. It is why I no longer buy any of their products day one or even day ten. (Though KoA:R is pushing me back into trying it again.) I just don't believe EA has done "badly wrong" here. Unless you count Origins being a very poorly designed program as "badly wrong".

FDrage wrote...
Would be good for any party involved to see the other side of tge fence as well ...

I see it, I just have no desire to cross it. Will gladly help paint it if someone needs it, though.

[Lumikki]

Soul Cool wrote...

Then give up on the Internet. Unhook your computer, destroy your credit cards/bank cards, never shop at a business that does not take cash, and change your name along with every other facet of your life. If you care that much about your personal information not escaping your grasp, you have failed just by connecting to the Internet.

It's my choise what I consider as trusted system. Like it's you choise what you consider as trusted.

We just have little different level what we trust and what we don't. You example is little extreme opinion of me, like nothing in internet can't be trusted. But other hand that doesn't mean everyting in internet has to be accepted, as opposite extreme example. Every person can freely choose what services and softwares they accept.

If you accept Origin Client, that's fine by me. How ever, if I'm not to accepting, it's my choise, not yours.

Modifié par Lumikki, 28 octobre 2011 - 11:18 .

[Taciter]

FDrage wrote...
The problem is so that some people are also sick of "EA (or other publishers) do nothing wrong and nothing to worry about it because the same thing has been done before. and I have nothing to hide so therefore they can have everything the want". Oki I've overstated it a bit ... but hopefully it can make my point

Would be good for any party involved to see the other side of tge fence as well ... but some people are incapable of doing so ...

So true FDr, If there's one thing I can't stand it's a feeble apologist. It incomprehsible to me that people would actually INVITE restrictions and yet I see it every day on the news... usually as a kneejerk reaction to overhyped phenomenon.

As for seeing the other side of the fence, I agree. I'm not so arrogant that I'm incapable of conceding defeat in the face of a superior argument but all too often, I see forum contributors arguing at crossed purposes.

[Soul Cool]

Lumikki wrote...
It's my choise what I consider as trusted system. Like it's you choise what you consider as trusted.

We just have little different level what we trust and what we don't. You example is little extreme opinion of me, like nothing in internet can't be trusted. But other hand that doesn't mean everyting in internet has to be accepted, as opposite extreme example. Every person can freely choose what services and softwares they accept.

Yes, they can. Exactly!  Which is why hyping/giving out possibly bad information is terrible. It scares off legitimate customers because of the fictious "bad reputation" a new program/pc item/whatever can garner simply because a few rumors ruin its reputation before it has a chance to succeed. Like BD from AMD. (Their new processor architecture.) AMD stuff is still the price/performance spot for budget systems, but BD is getting pretty harshly thrased for not being the best thing ever/perfect in every way. It is disappointing.

Lumikki wrote...If you accept Origin Client, that's fine by me. How ever, if I'm not to accepting, it's my choise, not yours.

Of course.

Modifié par Soul Cool, 28 octobre 2011 - 11:22 .

[Lumikki]

Soul Cool wrote...


Yes, they can. Exactly!  Which is why hyping/giving out possibly bad information is terrible.

I agree, assuming the information is bad. Let people be ignorant is as bad, than scare them off.

[Soul Cool]

Lumikki wrote...
I agree, assuming the information is bad. Let people be ignorant is as bad, than scare them off.

I agree with this, too, but I err on the other side of the line.