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Origin will be required to play Mass Effect 3


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#676
ColorMeSuprised

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anzolino wrote...

@ColorMeSuprised, it is the new EULA (at first it was delivered with the Beta version, I think). But it wasn't changed since 25.09. and it is online since then - but nobody knews. I got the link to the new one from some Beta players. They told me about it and we compared it with the old one. I don't have it here in any game. Maybe your source got it through the game and thought it was new. Ok? :o)


Alright. Thanks for the clarification. :kissing:


EDIT: I just read an article about how much loses EA made the last quarter. The irony and the spiteful remarks are just fun to read. :P

Modifié par ColorMeSuprised, 29 octobre 2011 - 06:31 .


#677
DownyTif

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psiasterisk wrote...

How did it even get as far as this, that a company like EA can draw up a contract that can run contrary to established law and make people waive their right to sue?

I´m not an american, but seeing that EA is an american company and even people inside the US seem to be pretty pissed off about this, I have to say: You should reign in the rights of your corporations, my american friends. The US are one of the great countries of the world, don´t let your corporations destroy it.

In the meantime I will, as an additional way of protest to not buying ME3, try to get every game, released with Origin in its current form, banned in my country.


I'm following you!

#678
didymos1120

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Liisi wrote...

Is it true that once you install it, you can't get rid of it completely unless you wipe the entire PC? Any experiences? Someone on Amazon claimed so.


No, it's not true.  All it leaves behind is a few empty registry entries related to the GUI toolkit it uses, QT (and any games you've installed with it). Nothing unusual about that though. Solution?  Delete them. I hope that person on Amazon enjoyed wasting their time though.  

#679
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*

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didymos1120 wrote...

Liisi wrote...

Is it true that once you install it, you can't get rid of it completely unless you wipe the entire PC? Any experiences? Someone on Amazon claimed so.


No, it's not true.  All it leaves behind is a few empty registry entries related to the GUI toolkit it uses, QT (and any games you've installed with it). Nothing unusual about that though. Solution?  Delete them. I hope that person on Amazon enjoyed wasting their time though.  


They mixed up "Origin" with "Norten Spyware antivirus" :happy:

#680
Deathwurm

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psiasterisk wrote...

How did it even get as far as this, that a company like EA can draw up a contract that can run contrary to established law and make people waive their right to sue?

I´m not an american, but seeing that EA is an american company and even people inside the US seem to be pretty pissed off about this, I have to say: You should reign in the rights of your corporations, my american friends. The US are one of the great countries of the world, don´t let your corporations destroy it.


Reigning in the "Corporate Citizens" here in America is a large part of what the American Occupy movement is about. You should check out some of what's going on with our large Banks!

And I agree, it's ridiculous that EA was even able to get this far with the EULA...problem is, even if a Clause in a Contract is illegal it stands until challanged in Court. EA (like any large Corporation) has herds of Lawyers at their disposal that are getting paid if they are doing something or just sitting around...the Citizenry-in-general doesn't have that luxury and someone would have to find a Law Firm that smells money to take the case on.

#681
sissysouthpaw

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didymos1120 wrote...

Liisi wrote...

Is it true that once you install it, you can't get rid of it completely unless you wipe the entire PC? Any experiences? Someone on Amazon claimed so.


No, it's not true.  All it leaves behind is a few empty registry entries related to the GUI toolkit it uses, QT (and any games you've installed with it). Nothing unusual about that though. Solution?  Delete them. I hope that person on Amazon enjoyed wasting their time though.  


Okay, thanks. That's good to hear.

#682
anzolino

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The brits have woken up now on Amazon:
89 Reviews
5 star: (15)
1 star: (62)
For the same reason as the Germans:
1.724 Reviews
5 star: (95)
1 star: (1.560)

Please Bioware, stop this and tell us: "Ok, boys and girls, we don't really need this. You'll get ME3 without Origin." Please.

#683
Johnsen1972

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Origin checks your tax programm


Modifié par Johnsen1972, 29 octobre 2011 - 07:26 .


#684
Robhuzz

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anzolino wrote...

The brits have woken up now on Amazon:
89 Reviews
5 star: (15)
1 star: (62)
For the same reason as the Germans:
1.724 Reviews
5 star: (95)
1 star: (1.560)

Please Bioware, stop this and tell us: "Ok, boys and girls, we don't really need this. You'll get ME3 without Origin." Please.


We'll probably get some moronic response from EA how 'The BF3 launch wasn't perfect' and and 'Mass Effect 3's launch will be a lot more smooth'. I don't expect EA to care at all. After all, all those people with the 1 star reviews bought the game.... I do hope BioWare, since they claimed EA doesn't tell them what to do, can make the smartest descision of the year and make sure that junk Origin doesn't corrupt Mass Effect 3, or any future BioWare title. Simply don't make it mandatory to install/play ME3 and I'll be a happy panda.

#685
didymos1120

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Johnsen1972 wrote...

Origin checks your tax programm


Based on my experiments with it, it's just getting lists of directory entries in Program Data, regardless of the program.  For instance, on my system, I get a bunch entries in Process Monitor for Norton files and directories.  I see nothing to indicate it's storing any of that information in any file of its own, nor is it sending all that much data over the network.   Certainly not enough to be transmitting your tax records.

Modifié par didymos1120, 29 octobre 2011 - 07:58 .


#686
Johnsen1972

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That's what most people hope, Im willing to BUY ME3 with money, but not with my privacy.
If Im forced to use Origin, DA2 was my last game I bought from Bioware.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 29 octobre 2011 - 08:00 .


#687
Johnsen1972

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didymos1120 wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Origin checks your tax programm


Based on my experiments with it, it's just getting lists of directory entries in Program Data, regardless of the program.  For instance, on my system, I get a bunch entries in Process Monitor for Norton files and directories.  I see nothing to indicate it's storing any of that information in any file of its own, nor is it sending all that much data over the network. 


It's because the data been sent to EA is encrypted. You will never know, what data has been sent and EA is allowed to send everything since you accepted the EULA

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 29 octobre 2011 - 07:59 .


#688
didymos1120

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Johnsen1972 wrote...


It's because the data been sent to EA is encrypted.


You do realize encryption isn't the same thing as data compression right? Encryption can even increase the amount of data, depending on the algorithm. And it's not using enough CPU time to be doing a bunch of compression either.

Modifié par didymos1120, 29 octobre 2011 - 08:01 .


#689
Deathwurm

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Johnsen1972 wrote...

That's what most people hope, Im willing to BUY ME3 with money, but not with my privacy.
If Im forced to use Origin, DA2 was my last game I bought from Bioware.


I am in 100% agreement!

#690
ColorMeSuprised

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Someone on the German forum mentioned that EA started banning people who used sandbox to play BF3. I asked for a link but didn't get a response. Has anyone else heard of something like this?

#691
anzolino

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We must warn Bogsnot.

#692
billy the squid

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didymos1120 wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...


It's because the data been sent to EA is encrypted.


You do realize encryption isn't the same thing as data compression right? Encryption can even increase the amount of data, depending on the algorithm. And it's not using enough CPU time to be doing a bunch of compression either.


The tests logs that I have read, do show that Origin scans potentially huge amounts of data, namely from the ProgramData file, but the actual information sent to EA is comparatively small, that is true.

The problem is that it does not prevent EA from gathering the data at a later date when updating Origin. Part of the issue is that it is unclear as to what Origin is actually looking for, I've seen that it scans even the icons in the ProgramData folder. Really is there any reason why it scans these items, yet ignores the registry keys? It seems an incredibly sloppy way of gathering information and doesn't do EA's image any favours when it is trying to set itself up as an alternative to Steam, paticularly when there has been no clarification as to what or why it is looking for information.

Surely if it was looking for legitimate games it would access the game's registry keys, I still remain unsure of what it is actually up to as a program.

#693
Johnsen1972

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ColorMeSuprised wrote...

Someone on the German forum mentioned that EA started banning people who used sandbox to play BF3. I asked for a link but didn't get a response. Has anyone else heard of something like this?


Nobody said that as far as I know.  I mentioned, that manipulating, changing or limiting Origin software can get you banned. 
The only thing you can do right now (if you want to keep your privacy), is to buy a new computer with a clean windows install and just Origin and your game.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 29 octobre 2011 - 08:29 .


#694
anzolino

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Johnsen :D confusing the whole world again.

#695
Johnsen1972

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Uh, I even dont know if they read my post in the german bioware forum. :lol:
They probably read it somewhere else.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 29 octobre 2011 - 08:29 .


#696
Gatt9

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psiasterisk wrote...

How did it even get as far as this, that a company like EA can draw up a contract that can run contrary to established law and make people waive their right to sue?

I´m not an american, but seeing that EA is an american company and even people inside the US seem to be pretty pissed off about this, I have to say: You should reign in the rights of your corporations, my american friends. The US are one of the great countries of the world, don´t let your corporations destroy it.

In the meantime I will, as an additional way of protest to not buying ME3, try to get every game, released with Origin in its current form, banned in my country.


EA's lawyers came up with it,  and printed it.  That doesn't actually make it binding at all.  They're justifying it based on some legal interstate commerce laws,  except they've made a number of massive logic errors.

First and foremost is,  the burden of proof is upon EA to give evidence that you agreed to the EULA.  A computer is not a person,  it's entirely possible to claim your roommate installed it,  and you weren't aware of the EULA,  and that he did not have the legal right to authorize invasive scanning of your data. 

Second,  anyone under the age of 18 can install it and click through the EULA,  and not be bound by it.  The parents are free to file whatever lawsuit they see fit,  as they did not agree to the EULA,  and in fact,  I believe there are laws regarding forcing minors to sign contracts with additional fines.

It's non-binding,  and extremely illegal,  because EA cannot prove who agreed to the EULA and cannot force minors to enter into binding contract.

This will end in very large lawsuits,  probably by Friday this week.

And I agree, it's ridiculous that EA was even able to get this far with the EULA...problem is, even if a Clause in a Contract is illegal it stands until challanged in Court. EA (like any large Corporation) has herds of Lawyers at their disposal that are getting paid if they are doing something or just sitting around...the Citizenry-in-general doesn't have that luxury and someone would have to find a Law Firm that smells money to take the case on.


That's not going to be hard for the reasons I outlined above.  EA has to prove who signed the contract,  which is impossible.  Since the scanning includes extremely protected data,  this is now a major legal matter.  Previously,  the EULA's fallback was the federal copyright laws,  so even if you couldn't prove who agreed to a EULA,  you could just lay claim to copyright violations if you did anything wrong with it.

This exceeds it,  it's now invasive,  and they've no fallback.  A lawfirm will pick this up quickly.

Based on my experiments with it, it's just getting lists of directory entries in Program Data, regardless of the program. For instance, on my system, I get a bunch entries in Process Monitor for Norton files and directories. I see nothing to indicate it's storing any of that information in any file of its own, nor is it sending all that much data over the network. Certainly not enough to be transmitting your tax records.


1.  Irrelevant.  Unless you can demonstrate a need for it to even be looking at the program files directory?  I'm pretty sure the software would function just fine without scanning the entire program files directory.  Everyone else to date has managed to write software that doesn't need to scan the whole directory.

2.  Conjecture,  it's scanning the directory and composing a list of files,  it's building a map of your installed programs.  Once it has that map,  reading the files is trivial. 

3.  Further conjecture.  It doesn't need to store it in files of it's own.  It can store it in main memory and upload it,  the entire process can easily be fully memory based.

Seriously dude,  do you have any valid rationale for why it needs to map out your program files directory?  Any reason why it needs to be scanning things in it?

Because honestly,  in the 30 years of video gaming history,  there's been only 1 game in that time that ever needed to do that,  and that was a game that placed you in a "Virtual world of your own computer".

I'm pretty sure Battlefield 3 doesn't have such a map,  so I'm pretty confident there's no need for them to be scanning everything in the directory where nearly all of your private,  personal,  and in many cases very stringently legally protected data resides.

#697
billy the squid

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Johnsen1972 wrote...

ColorMeSuprised wrote...

Someone on the German forum mentioned that EA started banning people who used sandbox to play BF3. I asked for a link but didn't get a response. Has anyone else heard of something like this?


Nobody said that as far as I know, but I said, that manipulating, changing or limiting Origin software can get you banned. 
The only thing you can do right now, if you want to keep your privacy, is to buy a new computer with a clean windows install and just Origin and your game.


As far as I know all sandbox does is run the game in a secure environment, seperate from the rest of the system, it's usually used for running code which is unidentified of could damage the rest of the computer's system.

It does not change or manipulate the Origin code, limit it maybe, in that it limits the program's access to other files,but I could do the same to all third party software which require data collection, who's to say, or by running the game on a blank PC with no other programs on it, are they going to ban me for limiting Origin then?

Then again I wouldn't be suprised if EA throws a hissy fit, because legitimate software has been used to circumvent Origin without people engaging in piracy. The only foreseeable issue I could think of for bans is the use of such systems to then hack the game and cheat in online matches, that I understand if they ban people for it, not the use of Sandbox.

#698
Johnsen1972

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billy the squid wrote...
As far as I know all sandbox does is run the game in a secure environment, seperate from the rest of the system, it's usually used for running code which is unidentified of could damage the rest of the computer's system.

It does not change or manipulate the Origin code, limit it maybe, in that it limits the program's access to other files,but I could do the same to all third party software which require data collection, who's to say, or by running the game on a blank PC with no other programs on it, are they going to ban me for limiting Origin then?

Then again I wouldn't be suprised if EA throws a hissy fit, because legitimate software has been used to circumvent Origin without people engaging in piracy. The only foreseeable issue I could think of for bans is the use of such systems to then hack the game and cheat in online matches, that I understand if they ban people for it, not the use of Sandbox.


Yeah, but are you sure? We both never know. That's the point. EA is not stupid, limiting Origin makes it useless and I cant belive they will just sit there watching users limiting Origin to prevent the spying.

#699
billy the squid

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Johnsen1972 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
As far as I know all sandbox does is run the game in a secure environment, seperate from the rest of the system, it's usually used for running code which is unidentified of could damage the rest of the computer's system.

It does not change or manipulate the Origin code, limit it maybe, in that it limits the program's access to other files,but I could do the same to all third party software which require data collection, who's to say, or by running the game on a blank PC with no other programs on it, are they going to ban me for limiting Origin then?

Then again I wouldn't be suprised if EA throws a hissy fit, because legitimate software has been used to circumvent Origin without people engaging in piracy. The only foreseeable issue I could think of for bans is the use of such systems to then hack the game and cheat in online matches, that I understand if they ban people for it, not the use of Sandbox.


Yeah, but are you sure? We both never know. That's the point. EA is not stupid, limiting Origin makes it useless and I cant belive they will just sit there watching users limiting Origin to prevent the spying.


Reasonably, look up some articles on these types of security systems,there's several, the program itself is not tampered with or the code manipulated, but kept seperate from the rest of the system and interactions stopped. I can foresee a hissy fit on a massive scale, but I'm unsure how EA would proceed.

No breach of copyright, no piracy, no tampering with code, no manipulating Origin, no hacking, or bypassing it. Origin still runs it just can't scan anything outside the perameters set, by the software.

We'll see what happens, I'm looking at Bf3 as a test run for EA's reaction in preperation for ME3.

Modifié par billy the squid, 29 octobre 2011 - 08:52 .


#700
ColorMeSuprised

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Johnsen1972 wrote...

ColorMeSuprised wrote...

Someone on the German forum mentioned that EA started banning people who used sandbox to play BF3. I asked for a link but didn't get a response. Has anyone else heard of something like this?


Nobody said that as far as I know.  I mentioned, that manipulating, changing or limiting Origin software can get you banned. 
The only thing you can do right now (if you want to keep your privacy), is to buy a new computer with a clean windows install and just Origin and your game.


I wasn't talking about you. :P I did however read your post and was even more angry about how changes to the game might affect activation and such.

It was on amazon.de. Sorry for my mislead.

billy the squid wrote...
It does not change or manipulate
the Origin code, limit it maybe, in that it limits the program's access
to other files,but I could do the same to all third party software which
require data collection, who's to say, or by running the game on a
blank PC with no other programs on it, are they going to ban me for
limiting Origin then?


Seams like EA does exactly that. Since some people mentionend it I wanted to verify it but couldn't find anything. That's why I was asking around if anyone heard of this. :?

Modifié par ColorMeSuprised, 29 octobre 2011 - 08:58 .