3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Bogsnot1]

Here is the section that has everyone panties in a bunch.

In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects non-personally identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as communicating with you. The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware. As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise enhancing your user experience.

Here is the equivalent passage in the Valve EULA, just reworded to sound less obtrusive.

Steam and the Software may include functionality designed to identify software or hardware processes or functionality that may give a player an unfair competitive advantage when playing multiplayer versions of any Software, other Valve products, or modifications thereof ("Cheats").

Just because something is designed to do one thnig, doesnt mean it cant do other things as well.
Look at Viagra. Designed to be blood pressure medication, but instead it gets used to keep old men from rolling out of bed at night, as well as other things. 

[Aliens Crew]

I don't have Steam as well. I buy my games in a store.

Are you working for BioWare or EA, Bogsnot1? When give us the answer we are looking for instead of post examples of firms which do the same crap as EA/BioWare wants to do now.

[JGDD]

Wittand25 wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

Thankfully I do not have to worry about this, seeing as how I play the ME game son my 360. However, I feel for you as I refused to let my wife put her Sims games on my comp due to Origin.

You are aware that both Microsoft and Sony already do collect your data right ?

In Valdrane78's case above you do not necessarily need to be connected so no data mining happens. But yes, as soon as you go online that happens even with a console.

I'm really curious if they decide to go after consoles with ME3 and make it so one must have constant connection also. The way things are shaping up it wouldn't surprise me at this point. It would also be fun to hear the howls of rage from the console 'Deal With It' crowd, too.

[Wittand25]

Aliens Crew wrote...

I don't have Steam as well. I buy my games in a store.

Are you working for BioWare or EA, Bogsnot1? When give us the answer we are looking for instead of post examples of firms which do the same crap as EA/BioWare wants to do now.

But you are posting here and you have DA:O,ME2 and DA2. All of those games already sent exactly the same information to EA as Origin will do. And when you instaled them you agreed to the EULAs of those three games that all include a passage similar or identical to the one of Origin.

[Aliens Crew]

That's not correct, Wittand25.

In the EULA of these games stand nothing of collecting "software". This is new. And I don't have accept the new EULA for DA 2.

[Bogsnot1]

Aliens Crew wrote...

I don't have Steam as well. I buy my games in a store.

Are you working for BioWare or EA, Bogsnot1? When give us the answer we are looking for instead of post examples of firms which do the same crap as EA/BioWare wants to do now.

I work for neither. I am merely bringing up other examples because the majority of people making the complaints about the behaviour of Origin either have Steam, Facebook, or both.

Noone is forcing you to install Origin. If you dont like it, dont buy it. Its that simple. Its called Voting with your wallet.

Just for the record, here is the corresponding line from ME2's EULA, which you dont seem to have a problem with.

To facilitate Technical Protection Measures, the provision of software updates, any dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online play, you agree that EA and its affiliates may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including an Internet Protocol Address and hardware identification), operating system and application software and peripheral hardware. EA and its affiliates may also share anonymous aggregate data with our third party service providers.

[Wittand25]

Aliens Crew wrote...

That's not correct, Wittand25.

In the EULA of these games stand nothing of collecting "software". This is new. And I don't have accept the new EULA for DA 2.

No all three EULAs mention to also collect software information. In fact all three use  the passage the poster between us quoted.

[Aliens Crew]

There is a simple different between the EULA of ME 2 and Origin. I miss the collection of "software" in the EULA of ME 2 that stands in the EULA of Origin. Can you specify the word "software" in the EULA of Origin?

It can means nothing or it can mean everything.

[Aliens Crew]

Wittand25 wrote...

Aliens Crew wrote...

That's not correct, Wittand25.

In the EULA of these games stand nothing of collecting "software". This is new. And I don't have accept the new EULA for DA 2.

No all three EULAs mention to also collect software information. In fact all three use  the passage the poster between us quoted.

And why did the EULA for DA 2 changed a couple of weeks ago?

[Bogsnot1]

Aliens Crew wrote...


There is a simple different between the EULA of ME 2 and Origin. I miss the collection of "software" in the EULA of ME 2 that stands in the EULA of Origin. Can you specify the word "software" in the EULA of Origin?

It can means nothing or it can mean everything.

ME2 EULA

 
To facilitate Technical Protection Measures, the provision of software updates, any dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online play, you agree that EA and its affiliates may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including an Internet Protocol Address and hardware identification), operating system and application software and peripheral hardware. EA and its affiliates may also share anonymous aggregate data with our third party service providers.

Origin EULA.

In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects non-personally identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as communicating with you. The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware. As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise enhancing your user experience.

Collect is in the ME2 EULA. Its not that hard to miss.
I cant specify exactly what they mean by "software" in the Origin EULA, no more than I can exactly specify what they mean by "application software" in the ME2 EULA. 

edit: fixed formatting

Modifié par Bogsnot1, 13 octobre 2011 - 09:06 .

[Wittand25]

Aliens Crew wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Aliens Crew wrote...

That's not correct, Wittand25.

In the EULA of these games stand nothing of collecting "software". This is new. And I don't have accept the new EULA for DA 2.

No all three EULAs mention to also collect software information. In fact all three use  the passage the poster between us quoted.

And why did the EULA for DA 2 changed a couple of weeks ago?

It was not at least not in regards to data collection. The following comes directly from the EULA that is on the disk of DA2 (in German):

Um die technischen Schutzmaßnahmen sowie die Bereitstellung von
Softwareupdates, dynamischen Inhalten, Produkt-Support und anderen Diensten,
einschließlich des Onlinespiels, zu erleichtern, gestattest du EA und seinen
Partnerunternehmen außerdem die Sammlung, Nutzung, Speicherung und Übertragung
von technischen und verwandten Informationen (insbesondere eine
Internet-Protocol-Adresse und Hardware-Identifizierung), die deinen Computer,
dein Betriebssystem, deine Anwendungssoftware und deine Hardwareperipherie
identifizieren. EA und seine Partner können diese Informationen auch in, dich
persönlich nicht identifizierender Form nutzen, um seine Produkte und
Dienstleistungen zu verbessern. Darüber hinaus sind wir berechtigt, diese Daten
anonym an andere Dienstanbieter weiterzugeben. 

It is the exact translation of the current passage in English.

Modifié par Wittand25, 13 octobre 2011 - 09:00 .

[Aliens Crew]

No one of you both can give me the answer I'm seeking for. So I wait for an offical of EA or BioWare who can do this.

[ironman001]

Aliens Crew then you will heard nothing from them until the game is out to play that the new rule in EA and Bioware we don't answer question that will hurt sell of the game.

[Wittand25]

Aliens Crew wrote...

No one of you both can give me the answer I'm seeking for. So I wait for an offical of EA or BioWare who can do this.

If your question is if Origin and/or a (temporary) internet connection will be required, the answer is: Installing the Origin client is required. You can check this out yourself by clicking on the Link labeled "Product EULAs and Other Disclosures" at the bottom of this website.

NTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED FOR PRODUCT ACTIVATION. INTERNET
CONNECTION, EA/ORIGIN ACCOUNT, ACCEPTANCE OF PRODUCT AND ORIGIN END USER
LICENSE AGREEMENTS, INSTALLATION OF THE ORIGIN CLIENT SOFTWARE
(WWW.ORIGIN.COM/ABOUT) AND REGISTRATION WITH ENCLOSED SINGLE-USE SERIAL
CODE(S) REQUIRED TO PLAY, ACCESS BONUS CONTENT (IF ANY) AND ACCESS
ONLINE SERVICES. 

Modifié par Wittand25, 13 octobre 2011 - 09:32 .

[Aliens Crew]

ironman001 wrote...

Aliens Crew then you will heard nothing from them until the game is out to play that the new rule in EA and Bioware we don't answer question that will hurt sell of the game.

I think, this is true. So I will continue to warn everyone who is willing to listen about Origin, until we get that answer. And I also won't buy ME 3.

[anzolino]

Bogsnot1 wrote...
Thats listed for Digital Purchases from the the online store, but we still dont know if it will be required for the disk version.

Nope, it's listed on the "PC Game EULA" section for Mass Effect 3. There is no digital or retail section. So we have our answer now!

N0-Future wrote...

Found this, make of it what you will...

INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED FOR PRODUCT ACTIVATION. INTERNET CONNECTION, EA/ORIGIN ACCOUNT, ACCEPTANCE OF PRODUCT AND ORIGIN END USER LICENSE AGREEMENTS, INSTALLATION OF THE ORIGIN CLIENT SOFTWARE (WWW.ORIGIN.COM/ABOUT) ...

And here we go to the ME3 EULA.
So, now it's not only the Origin EULA it's also something funny like this in Section 2:

...Data that personally identifies you is collected, used, stored and transmitted...

Very detailed explanation, don't you think?

The Origin EULA said: "...software, software usage...".
The ME3 EULA said "...Data that personally identifies you..."
Additional to this exists the new privacy policy (july) and the new terms of use (august).
It's a really big brother now and you have to be a lawyer to understand all this ONLY FOR PLAYING A GAME!

@ironman001: You must change the topic again to "...is required...!" ;o)

Ok, Bioware, thanks for the old games and the fun I had playing them but I'm out now. I will not buy ME3.

[Wittand25]

anzolino wrote...
The Origin EULA said: "...software, software usage...".
The ME3 EULA said "...Data that personally identifies you..."
Additional to this exists the new privacy policy (july) and the new terms of use (august).
It's a really big brother now and you have to be a lawyer to understand all this ONLY FOR PLAYING A GAME!

Ok, Bioware, thanks for the old games and the fun I had playing them but I'm out now. I will not buy ME3.

That quote for ME3 is out of contenxt. The full quote is:

Consent to Public Display of Data. If you participate in online services, such
as online play or the downloading and uploading of content, EA and its affiliates
may also collect, use, store, transmit and publicly display statistical data
regarding game play (including scores, rankings and achievements), or identify
content that is created and shared by you with other players. Data that
personally identifies you is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance
with EA’s Privacy Policy located at www.ea.com.

You left out the important part, namely that information that identifies the user will not be shared (Privacy Policy).
The other things are basically what the BSN profile is already doing, like display of achievements, story progression for an account.

[Tavalero]

Me is whether there is one MP in ME3 or not, as long as this is coupled with origin, comes the game not on my system!

[Bogsnot1]

anzolino wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...
Thats listed for Digital Purchases from the the online store, but we still dont know if it will be required for the disk version.

OK, I admit I misread that page.

anzolino wrote...

Nope, it's listed on the "PC Game EULA" section for Mass Effect 3. There is no digital or retail section. So we have our answer now!

N0-Future wrote...

Found this, make of it what you will...

INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED FOR PRODUCT ACTIVATION. INTERNET CONNECTION, EA/ORIGIN ACCOUNT, ACCEPTANCE OF PRODUCT AND ORIGIN END USER LICENSE AGREEMENTS, INSTALLATION OF THE ORIGIN CLIENT SOFTWARE (WWW.ORIGIN.COM/ABOUT) ...

And here we go to the ME3 EULA.
So, now it's not only the Origin EULA it's also something funny like this in Section 2:

...Data that personally identifies you is collected, used, stored and transmitted...

Very detailed explanation, don't you think?

The Origin EULA said: "...software, software usage...".
The ME3 EULA said "...Data that personally identifies you..."
Additional to this exists the new privacy policy (july) and the new terms of use (august).
It's a really big brother now and you have to be a lawyer to understand all this ONLY FOR PLAYING A GAME!

@ironman001: You must change the topic again to "...is required...!" ;o)

Ok, Bioware, thanks for the old games and the fun I had playing them but I'm out now. I will not buy ME3.

Perhaps you should read on and get some actual facts before flying off the deep end, especially when you cherry pick bits and pieces.

Data that personally identifies you is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance with EA's Privacy Policy located at www.ea.com.

You read the Privacy Policy and you get;

Personal information is information that identifies you and that may be used to contact you on-line or off-line. EA may collect personal information from our online visitors during:

● Contest registration and prize acceptance;
● Warranty registration and requests;
● Customer support and/or technical service requests;
● Player match up and other head-to-head online competitions;
● Registration for games and/or special game-specific events;
● Newsletter subscriptions, referral services, and other marketing surveys and email campaigns;
● Registration for EA and/or other service accounts;
● Creation of a personal profile;
● Product, service and/or subscription orders;
● Service requests from third party service providers on our site;
● Access to our products and/or services on social networks or other third party services; and
● Otherwise through use of our software, mobile or online services where personal information is required for use and/or participation.

Information collected will vary depending upon the activity and may include your name, email address, phone number, home address, birth date, mobile phone number and credit card information.

So, if you take a step back and apply some critical thinking, what do you get?
- If you purchase anything from EA/Origin, they will already have all your personal details.
- If you enter any competitions, they will have most your personal details in order to deliver your prize to you.
- If you dont purchase anything from them, and have not entered into any competitions, they have your email address, and possibly your name if you decided to be honest with them while setting up your account.

Once again, I advise people to do smoe thinking and research for themselves, and stop accepting rumour and FUD as fact. The biggest threat facing the world today is not terrorism, is not the financial crisis, but ignorance.
Start thinking, and the threat goes away.

[Rabenkopf]

here is the privacy policy. My First impression: A very long and monotone Text. And this everyone must read only to play a game? My second impression: There are similarity between this and Origin EULA. For Example in section IVa the word software is not specified. It can be everything and that is one of the main problems of Origin´s EULA......interesting is too that this policy link you to another content which isn´t much shorter under Section IV. I should call for my lawyer, if I want to understand everything of this....

[anzolino]

No, I've quoted the right phrase! Did you read the full Privacy Policy? Which data are related in there?
I love this one in particular: IV. What Is Non-Personal Information and When Does EA Collect It?

B.How Does EA Collect Non-Personal Information?
EA collects non-personal information along with personal information when you actively provide it in the context of various online and mobile activities including online and mobile purchases, game registration and marketing surveys, for instance. In addition, we and other third parties use cookies and other technologies to passively collect non-personal demographic information, personalize your experience on our sites and monitor advertisements and other activities as described below. We may also derive from the information collected other facts, such as determining the applicable tax rate based on your IP address.

Yes, is very specific non-personally.
Or:
VI. What Happens To The Information EA Collects?
IX. Review, Correction Of Your Information, Requesting Removal From Mailing Lists And Deactivating Your Account

BTW, where is the Opt-In button if I don't want to share my data?

Did you read all this in the Privacy Policy AND the Terms Of Use AND the Origin EULA AND the ME3 EULA?
If this isn't bothering you, fine, but I don't want this to play a game! Period.

[Bogsnot1]

anzolino wrote...
No, I've quoted the right phrase! Did you read the full Privacy Policy? Which data are related in there?
I love this one in particular: IV. What Is Non-Personal Information and When Does EA Collect It?

B.How Does EA Collect Non-Personal Information?
EA collects non-personal information along with personal information when you actively provide it in the context of various online and mobile activities including online and mobile purchases, game registration and marketing surveys, for instance. In addition, we and other third parties use cookies and other technologies to passively collect non-personal demographic information, personalize your experience on our sites and monitor advertisements and other activities as described below. We may also derive from the information collected other facts, such as determining the applicable tax rate based on your IP address.

Yes, is very specific non-personally.
Or:
VI. What Happens To The Information EA Collects?
IX. Review, Correction Of Your Information, Requesting Removal From Mailing Lists And Deactivating Your Account

 
You are confusng personal information with non personal information. Non-personal information cannot be used to identify you as a person.
With the use of a VPN or anonymiser service, you can even have an IP address which doesnt correlate to your region, state, or country.

BTW, where is the Opt-In button if I don't want to share my data?

Your choices are;
1) You dont use the service
2) You set up your browser to not accept cookies
3) Enable "Privacy Mode" in the browser of your choice, or download one that has a "Privacy Mode"

Did you read all this in the Privacy Policy AND the Terms Of Use AND the Origin EULA AND the ME3 EULA? 
If this isn't bothering you, fine, but I don't want this to play a game! Period.

Read it all, and understood both the technical terms, and the legal-speak. Its no more, or less intrusive than the T&C's you have already agreed to with ME2, DA:O and DA2.

Seriously, you are getting yourself flustered over nothing, and mainly because you do not seem to understand the terminology being used, and are assuming the worst.

[billy the squid]

Wittand25 wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

Thankfully I do not have to worry about this, seeing as how I play the ME game son my 360. However, I feel for you as I refused to let my wife put her Sims games on my comp due to Origin.

You are aware that both Microsoft and Sony already do collect your data right ?

It is nearly impossible to avaoid data collecting as soon as you are online, and frankly speaking I fail to see what the big problem is if EA knows my graphic card, my operating system or whom my Hawke is banging in the current playthrough.

Origin contains an unrestricted access clause which allows data collection from any software, hardware,peripheral hardware and data. When combined with EA's privacy clause, which allows personal identification and allows distribution to third parties, it remains an very wide ranging EULA, as what  data it is actually looking for is undefined, it implies that it can look at whatever data EA deems necessary, not something I'm comfortable with.

As to the issue of data collection, it can look at my internet use habits, what hardware configuration I use, what operating system and how they interact with EA software, on these points, frankly, I don't care. But, I dislike giving a software application unrestricted access to data on my harddrive which has nothing to do with the application in question.

Gripes over hardware set up and which applications interact with the system are not even close to the problem which has arisen.

Modifié par billy the squid, 13 octobre 2011 - 10:38 .

[Bogsnot1]

@billy: Did you not read ME2's EULA, or the posts on this page? It contains the same thing, as I already pointed out.

[Aliens Crew]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

@billy: Did you not read ME2's EULA, or the posts on this page? It contains the same thing, as I already pointed out.

As I posted above: The ME 2 EULA doesn't contains the terminus "software".

But please tell me, why you are fighting here BioWares battle, when you do not working for them?