3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Pkxm]

I think this has already been linked before but just for anyone who hasn't seen it yet..

http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas

http://eacom.s3.amaz....5.11 FINAL.pdf

INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED FOR PRODUCT ACTIVATION. INTERNET CONNECTION, EA/ORIGIN ACCOUNT, ACCEPTANCE OF PRODUCT AND ORIGIN END USER LICENSE AGREEMENTS, INSTALLATION OF THE ORIGIN CLIENT SOFTWARE (WWW.ORIGIN.COM/ABOUT) AND REGISTRATION WITH ENCLOSED SINGLE-USE SERIAL CODE(S) REQUIRED TO PLAY, ACCESS BONUS CONTENT (IF ANY) AND ACCESS ONLINE SERVICES. SERIAL CODE REGISTRATION IS LIMITED TO ONE EA/ORIGIN ACCOUNT PER SERIAL CODE. SERIAL CODE(S) ARE NON-TRANSFERABLE ONCE USED. EULAS AND ADDITIONAL DISCLOSURES CAN BE FOUND AT WWW.EA.COM/1/PRODUCT-EULAS. EA ONLINE PRIVACY POLICY AND TERMS OF SERVICE CAN BE FOUND AT AT WWW.EA.COM. YOU MUST BE 13+ TO ACTIVATE SOFTWARE, ACCESS ONLINE FEATURES AND REGISTER FOR AN EA/ORIGIN ACCOUNT. EA MAY RETIRE ONLINE FEATURES AFTER 30 DAYS NOTICE POSTED ON WWW.EA.COM/2/SERVICE-UPDATES. EA MAY PROVIDE CERTAIN INCREMENTAL CONTENT AND/OR UPDATES FOR NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE, IF AND WHEN AVAILABLE.

[shep82]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

I really hope retail doesn't use origin (even though I think it will). I don't want to see ME3 get 1-starred into oblivion.

Neither do I. It will be a great game but sadly a lot of PC gamers (not me ) will refuse to buy it.

[shep82]

Jsxdf wrote...

I think this has already been linked before but just for anyone who hasn't seen it yet..

http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas

http://eacom.s3.amaz....5.11 FINAL.pdf

INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED FOR PRODUCT ACTIVATION. INTERNET CONNECTION, EA/ORIGIN ACCOUNT, ACCEPTANCE OF PRODUCT AND ORIGIN END USER LICENSE AGREEMENTS, INSTALLATION OF THE ORIGIN CLIENT SOFTWARE (WWW.ORIGIN.COM/ABOUT) AND REGISTRATION WITH ENCLOSED SINGLE-USE SERIAL CODE(S) REQUIRED TO PLAY, ACCESS BONUS CONTENT (IF ANY) AND ACCESS ONLINE SERVICES. SERIAL CODE REGISTRATION IS LIMITED TO ONE EA/ORIGIN ACCOUNT PER SERIAL CODE. SERIAL CODE(S) ARE NON-TRANSFERABLE ONCE USED. EULAS AND ADDITIONAL DISCLOSURES CAN BE FOUND AT WWW.EA.COM/1/PRODUCT-EULAS. EA ONLINE PRIVACY POLICY AND TERMS OF SERVICE CAN BE FOUND AT AT WWW.EA.COM. YOU MUST BE 13+ TO ACTIVATE SOFTWARE, ACCESS ONLINE FEATURES AND REGISTER FOR AN EA/ORIGIN ACCOUNT. EA MAY RETIRE ONLINE FEATURES AFTER 30 DAYS NOTICE POSTED ON WWW.EA.COM/2/SERVICE-UPDATES. EA MAY PROVIDE CERTAIN INCREMENTAL CONTENT AND/OR UPDATES FOR NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE, IF AND WHEN AVAILABLE.

That is nothing but a carbon copy of Battlefield 3's eula.

[Pkxm]

Which is bad news since BF3 digital & retail is the same, requires Origin. Origin is not just a digital distribution platform but is also DRM. And the replies by Bioware about Origin suggest they are using it

[shep82]

Jsxdf wrote...

Which is bad news since BF3 digital & retail is the same, requires Origin. Origin is not just a digital distribution platform but is also DRM. And the replies by Bioware about Origin suggest they are using it

I don't get what the big deal is. I have read the eula's and while I don;t agree with some of it I have nothing to hide and I use steam anyway and never opted out. It is the same damn thing and I could care less.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Chris Priestly wrote...

trayno wrote...

Any reasonable estimates as to when said clarification can be given? 

Hopefully in time to cancel the preorder should it turn out that Origin will be required.

Greetings,
Trayno

No estimate yet, but  it is in progress. Since you can cancel up to day of launch, this does give a little buffer.

If you're at GameStop, you can cancel AFTER launch if you want. Waiting too long might result in your CE being sold depending on the store and how well you communicate with them, but your money is still safe and can be refunded.

[Johnsen1972]

shep82 wrote...

I don't get what the big deal is. I have read the eula's and while I don;t agree with some of it I have nothing to hide and I use steam anyway and never opted out. It is the same damn thing and I could care less.

Steam never tried to scan all your private date and sell it. A few hours ago we got the third Eula change now. Now its quite similiar to steam. I don't how many people I explained that before 
No other Eulas have gone as far as Origin. Not Blizzard, not Steam not Ubisoft. And everyone claimes that they have read the Eulas and dont see he differences 

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 01 novembre 2011 - 03:33 .

[Pkxm]

shep82 wrote...

Jsxdf wrote...

Which is bad news since BF3 digital & retail is the same, requires Origin. Origin is not just a digital distribution platform but is also DRM. And the replies by Bioware about Origin suggest they are using it

I don't get what the big deal is. I have read the eula's and while I don;t agree with some of it I have nothing to hide and I use steam anyway and never opted out. It is the same damn thing and I could care less.

The big deal is Origin is scanning entire directories, ones that it has no business even scanning. Who knows what they are gathering and sending back, even if they are not sending sensitive stuff they have the ability to do so and that is not cool. Steam gathers what your hardware specs are (cpu/vid card, etc, this is actually useful for game companies to know), and your installed apps (this is pointless imo and no need). You also have the option to Opt out from the surveys from Steam. I'm pretty sure I've read threads about this. Steam and Origin are NOT the exact same thing. But I'm not a fan of what Steam does either, and both Valve and EA need to learn a lesson from this Origin debate.

They don't need to be looking through our tax software folders (like in the screenshots) or through our battlenet/wow folders (like in screenshots) or almost anything else for that matter. They have no need or business doing this..it's not about having something to hide or having sensitive information on our pc. It's about just making a video game and selling it to me without turning into some corporation out of a dystopian novel. It's entirely possible Origin could be looking for cracked/pirated software and flag your IP. The facts are this, Origin is scanning entire directories. Origin sends encrypted information back to a server. This is not the actions a game publisher should be taking. They didn't do this years ago and look how wealthy game publishers/devs/marketers are. Now they need to have open access to our pc's and information? f that

[Metalrocks]

now i am really concerned to get my self ME3. i dont want origin scanning my stuff. i was even thinking to get my self BF3 but because of this, i dont get it.
they treat honest buyers like criminals. guilty before proof en innocent.

[DownyTif]

Jsxdf wrote...

shep82 wrote...

Jsxdf wrote...

Which is bad news since BF3 digital & retail is the same, requires Origin. Origin is not just a digital distribution platform but is also DRM. And the replies by Bioware about Origin suggest they are using it

I don't get what the big deal is. I have read the eula's and while I don;t agree with some of it I have nothing to hide and I use steam anyway and never opted out. It is the same damn thing and I could care less.

The big deal is Origin is scanning entire directories, ones that it has no business even scanning. Who knows what they are gathering and sending back, even if they are not sending sensitive stuff they have the ability to do so and that is not cool. Steam gathers what your hardware specs are (cpu/vid card, etc, this is actually useful for game companies to know), and your installed apps (this is pointless imo and no need). You also have the option to Opt out from the surveys from Steam. I'm pretty sure I've read threads about this. Steam and Origin are NOT the exact same thing. But I'm not a fan of what Steam does either, and both Valve and EA need to learn a lesson from this Origin debate.

They don't need to be looking through our tax software folders (like in the screenshots) or through our battlenet/wow folders (like in screenshots) or almost anything else for that matter. They have no need or business doing this..it's not about having something to hide or having sensitive information on our pc. It's about just making a video game and selling it to me without turning into some corporation out of a dystopian novel. It's entirely possible Origin could be looking for cracked/pirated software and flag your IP. The facts are this, Origin is scanning entire directories. Origin sends encrypted information back to a server. This is not the actions a game publisher should be taking. They didn't do this years ago and look how wealthy game publishers/devs/marketers are. Now they need to have open access to our pc's and information? f that

You speak my mind. For your observation about Steam scanning your installed apps, it only serves when you want to add a non-Steam game to Steam. It offers you a list of your installed applications/games. I don't think it is doing anything else with it. It just facilitate the adding.

[Lumikki]

Jsxdf wrote...

The big deal is Origin is scanning entire directories, ones that it has no business even scanning. Who knows what they are gathering and sending back, even if they are not sending sensitive stuff they have the ability to do so and that is not cool. Steam gathers what your hardware specs are (cpu/vid card, etc, this is actually useful for game companies to know), and your installed apps (this is pointless imo and no need).

Issue isn't is the data usefull to company, issue is that they have no rights to gather it. It's illegal in many countries. By the way, steam also collect all software names from your computer, game related or not. Basicly it does pretty close to same what origin does.

You also have the option to Opt out from the surveys from Steam. I'm pretty sure I've read threads about this.

This is the important difference, software is asking from player do they want to be part of the data collection or not. Even if there is rumors that data collection will be done anyway. How ever, scanning your hole computer and transfering (data) information from your computer outside of your computer, there is big difference between them.

Steam and Origin are NOT the exact same thing. But I'm not a fan of what Steam does either, and both Valve and EA need to learn a lesson from this Origin debate.

They aren't exact same, but they are both spyware programs and they purpose is pretty much same. Origin just doesn't ask anyting or give player any choises, it just does it. EA thinks they can do it, because EULA acception, but they really can't, because they bundle two different softwares togather. Spyware and game. It would be consider in many countries laws as illegal force spyware into players computers. Why? because players did not buy spyware, they buyed game and softwares is expected to be what it's sayed to be. It's same as misleading the consumers.

Game companies may be interested plyers hardware and softwares, but they have no rights to collect ANY info from players computers, even names of games. That's allready break of privacy. It's different to create tool what scan hole computer and let example player to select games from one big list. That actually transfer that knowledge outside to players computer. That's where it becomes illegal and break of privacy. 

Modifié par Lumikki, 01 novembre 2011 - 07:32 .

[Zhijn]

Its absolutely shameful of EA to force this on people.

I hope thouse germans legal teams kick the crap outta EA's glorified spyware.

[Homebound]

NEVER trust/sign any ToS with the phrase "..and other things" in it.

Origins has that phrase in its ToS

[Mister Mida]

I wonder if it's actually legal in the EU to force players to install Steam or Origin in order to play the game. Like Salsa said a few pages back, it reminds me of the case where Microsoft had IE installed on every Windows OS without the option to look for alternative browsers

[didymos1120]

Mister Mida wrote...

I wonder if it's actually legal in the EU to force players to install Steam or Origin in order to play the game.

I imagine so, given how long Steam's been around now.  You'd think if it violated EU regs someone would have noticed.

[Lumikki]

didymos1120 wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

I wonder if it's actually legal in the EU to force players to install Steam or Origin in order to play the game.

I imagine so, given how long Steam's been around now.  You'd think if it violated EU regs someone would have noticed.

Not neccassary, meaning it's not just about someone notice it, but today many countries government doesn't really do anything for these kind of cases, unless someone has made real official complain from it to government. Meaning most the time companies can break even laws, because most consumers doesn't wanna sue companies, because they just doesn't have money to win the cases. Only cases when government or companies fix these break of laws is when the case become so public that they have to do something about it.

This is the modern day sociaty, attitude: Who cares. Can't do anything about it anyway. Not my business.

Modifié par Lumikki, 01 novembre 2011 - 08:56 .

[G0ldmember]

I posted this in an other thread. (if this has already been posted, my apologies) Thought you might find it interesting:

In case you missed it: There is currently a sh!tstorm brewing in Germany, concerning an article on gamestar.de. (translation) A lawyer scrutinized the UELA from Origin and concluded that Origin behaves much like spyware and is breaking German law. But it gets worse:

They let lose Microsoft's Process Monitor (get it here) on what Origin.exe was doing on their pc and the findings were ...interesting. Among other things, the origin executable was looking through folders belonging to an accounting program and one Sony Ericsson application.

Aftermath: 2600 (mostly negative) reactions on the article and as a protest, gamers are hammering the Battlefield 3 - Limited Edition on amazon.de. So far 2500 1 star reviews. (Bobby must be laughing his ass off right now)

I bought the BF3 - Limited Edition purely for the ME3 Demo and installed it (havent played it yet). But now I'm getting a bit anctious on what Origin is datamining on my pc....

Modifié par G0ldmember, 01 novembre 2011 - 10:01 .

[Mister Mida]

Lumikki wrote...

Not neccassary, meaning it's not just about someone notice it, but today many countries government doesn't really do anything for these kind of cases, unless someone has made real official complain from it to government. Meaning most the time companies can break even laws, because most consumers doesn't wanna sue companies, because they just doesn't have money to win the cases. Only cases when government or companies fix these break of laws is when the case become so public that they have to do something about it.

This is the modern day sociaty, attitude: Who cares. Can't do anything about it anyway. Not my business.

Jep, pretty much. Hence we should find some way to make it known to the public and more importantly the governments.

[didymos1120]

G0ldmember wrote...

I posted this in an other thread. (if this has already been posted, my apologies)

Yes, it has been posted.  Many, many times now.

[Ieldra]

Old news, G0ldmember.

EA has published a revised version of its license agreement in Germany, which, should newer versions of Origin adhere to it, looks quite a bit more acceptable than the original.

If you can read German, here's the new version.

Specifically, the new version limits the data you agree to be collected by Origin to data "connected with the application" (I take that to mean data about Origin itself and games linked to it), your IP and MAC address and data about your hardware. There is no more agreement to give away data to third parties like "EA's partners" and no more generalizing statement about "other data on the computer". I haven't done an in-depth analysis, but this looks now comparable to what Steam does.

It remains to be seen if Origin will comply with this and if there will be a new worldwide version revised along the lines of the new German version.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 novembre 2011 - 09:13 .

[elitecom]

shep82 wrote...

Jsxdf wrote...

Which is bad news since BF3 digital & retail is the same, requires Origin. Origin is not just a digital distribution platform but is also DRM. And the replies by Bioware about Origin suggest they are using it

I don't get what the big deal is. I have read the eula's and while I don;t agree with some of it I have nothing to hide and I use steam anyway and never opted out. It is the same damn thing and I could care less.

Even if it's not a big problem for you, for others it definitely is. It's an intrusion into people's private lives, and EA has no business snooping into such matters.  

[anzolino]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Specifically, the new version limits the data you agree to be collected...

Yes, the "software, software usage" part is gone but it's still not satisfactorily in my opinion.
Now it contains a lot of blah, but no mention of Amazon clouds, suspicous explanation about the purposes of Origin usage <-> user profiling, saving IP/MAC adresses on SP mode, dependence of voluntary decision and application usage...
As long as the Origin.exe doesn't stop scanning, they can write what they want - it doesn't matter.

Here you can see the difference of data access between Steam and Origin. I wonder how the Steam developer can lock the Steam.exe in their own folder. I thought it isn't possible - some comments about our overreactions explained: The Origin.exe has to scan the folder to find the data and configuration files. Uhh, really funny. I cannot believe how all the other programs work without scanning the complete folders. Seems to be some miracle.
Access Steam.exe
Access Origin.exe

[Mister Mida]

anzolino wrote...

Access Steam.exe
Access Origin.exe

Well, at least this confirms that Steam is better than Origin. Not that I want to put that piece of tedious software on my computer, though.

[Bostur]

I realized that my ME games will probably be useless the next time I upgrade my PC. I purchased them through the EA download manager when the terms were more acceptable, but I probably wont be able to install them again without accepting the new Origin terms. This isn't a big loss to me, and by making a digital purchase I realize that there is an increased risk of losing my personal property. But I think it does show some of the unfortunate side effects of this kind of vendor lock-in.

I can't help to wonder how many current games will be playable 10 or 20 years from now. I'm a bit worried that parts of gaming culture will be lost because of DRM. Publishers like to have complete control of their products but consumers and the public in general have part of the rights as well both legally and morally. Did EA hand over their collection of CD keys for the ME series to the National Libary of my country? I doubt it even if they are legally required to do so. In any case part of my digital property is now being vandalized by EA.

Modifié par Bostur, 01 novembre 2011 - 10:47 .