3140 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

Bostur wrote...

I realized that my ME games will probably be useless the next time I upgrade my PC. I purchased them through the EA download manager when the terms were more acceptable, but I probably wont be able to install them again without accepting the new Origin terms.

Just use Origin long enough to download them, and then uninstall it.  It doesn't have to be running to play either game, nor does it need to stay on your system (I just tested it with both games).  You could also tell it to keep the installers after downloading, and then copy that folder somewhere else for future use.

[billy the squid]

Bostur wrote...

I can't help to wonder how many current games will be playable 10 or 20 years from now. I'm a bit worried that parts of gaming culture will be lost because of DRM. Publishers like to have complete control of their products but consumers and the public in general have part of the rights as well both legally and morally. Did EA hand over their collection of CD keys for the ME series to the National Libary of my country? I doubt it even if they are legally required to do so. In any case part of my digital property is now being vandalized by EA.

Morality doesn't really enter into it. Copyright legislation is implemented to prevent distribution of the IP without the authorisation of the IP holder, The Us Copyright system seems slightly different from that of Britain's, but the current DRM system appears to go way beyond what was envisioned by the actual Copyright laws implemented. To the point where the licensor no longer just licenses the licensee to use the IP, but limits when it can be used, how often it can be used, modifications to the code, even if it remains for personal use.
 
Which was at least the spirit of the legislation, to prevent the licensee being in default breach of the legislation and allow personal use only. It now extends heavily into how and when you use it even if it is for personal use only. 

[Bostur]

didymos1120 wrote...

Bostur wrote...

I realized that my ME games will probably be useless the next time I upgrade my PC. I purchased them through the EA download manager when the terms were more acceptable, but I probably wont be able to install them again without accepting the new Origin terms.

Just use Origin long enough to download them, and then uninstall it.  It doesn't have to be running to play either game, nor does it need to stay on your system (I just tested it with both games).  You could also tell it to keep the installers after downloading, and then copy that folder somewhere else for future use.

That would require me to accept the new terms though.

There are lots of workarounds and I may look into some. What worries me is the principle of the matters, and the long term consequences.

[alexk83]

I've just canceled my pre-order.
I'll wait until release and if f*ck*ng origin will be needed to play ME3, it will be the first Bioware game i want to have but i don't buy!

Sad but a necessary consequence everybody should consider!

The ea-criminals only learn if YOU cut their money by NOT BUYING!

Unfortunately they waste the hard work of a really good developer team.

[didymos1120]

alexk83 wrote...

I've just canceled my pre-order.
I'll wait until release and if f*ck*ng origin will be needed to play ME3, it will be the first Bioware game i want to have but i don't buy!

OK, wait: you're cancelling because you think it'll require Origin, but you'll still buy if it doesn't require Origin?  Doesn't that just mean you're not buying it, period?

[didymos1120]

Bostur wrote...

That would require me to accept the new terms though.

Well, you're not bound by the EULA anymore once you've removed the software, so it's a very transitory acceptance.

[alexk83]

didymos1120 wrote...

alexk83 wrote...

I've just canceled my pre-order.
I'll wait until release and if f*ck*ng origin will be needed to play ME3, it will be the first Bioware game i want to have but i don't buy!

OK, wait: you're cancelling because you think it'll require Origin, but you'll still buy if it doesn't require Origin?  Doesn't that just mean you're not buying it, period?

If it will NOT require origin, i WILL buy it. 
If it WILL require origin, i will NOT buy it.

[Bostur]

didymos1120 wrote...

Bostur wrote...

That would require me to accept the new terms though.

Well, you're not bound by the EULA anymore once you've removed the software, so it's a very transitory acceptance.

According to the terms that I just read, I'm bound if I wan't to use my games. If I don't accept the terms I lose all access. By cancelling an Origin account I agree not to use any EA service or product. Cancelling an account is not an easy process either, as far as I can tell. In theory I'm probably not even allowed to post here if I'm in disagreement with those terms.

In practice I don't think a court would look favourable on this kind of agreement, but as a normal consumer I don't have the means or motivation to take something like this to court. Boycotting EA products seems like a more reasonable approach, their terms are unacceptable to me so I don't deal with them.

[Sterob01]

Maybe a stupid question but what is so bad about Origins?

[Gibb_Shepard]

Sterob01 wrote...

Maybe a stupid question but what is so bad about Origins?

long story short, in the T&C you have to agree to letting EA root around your computer's private info.

And it's just a pain in the ass. Playing BF3 on PC? Pretty much the most annoying thing ever.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 01 novembre 2011 - 12:01 .

[Gotholhorakh]

didymos1120 wrote...

Bostur wrote...

That would require me to accept the new terms though.

Well, you're not bound by the EULA anymore once you've removed the software, so it's a very transitory acceptance.

You say transitory, but if you have to agree to things before you install software you already owned, that's a bar in the way of you getting at your product.

The "all your data are ours" thing is a perfect example - imagine if, to open a book you already own, you had to give someone the right to rifle through your home?

It might be a quick thing, they might not even use it, but it's still there. If you value your privacy it's also a bar to you using something you've paid money for in good faith.

I think Valve have learnt lessons on this one - if you have the power to make unreasonable demands on gamers, then you'd better be especially careful that you're seen NOT to, or risk your userbase.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 01 novembre 2011 - 12:06 .

[SalsaDMA]

Lumikki wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

I wonder if it's actually legal in the EU to force players to install Steam or Origin in order to play the game.

I imagine so, given how long Steam's been around now.  You'd think if it violated EU regs someone would have noticed.

Not neccassary, meaning it's not just about someone notice it, but today many countries government doesn't really do anything for these kind of cases, unless someone has made real official complain from it to government. Meaning most the time companies can break even laws, because most consumers doesn't wanna sue companies, because they just doesn't have money to win the cases. Only cases when government or companies fix these break of laws is when the case become so public that they have to do something about it.

This is the modern day sociaty, attitude: Who cares. Can't do anything about it anyway. Not my business.

Indeed.

Case in point: In my country there are laws to prevent discrimination based on, among other things, gender. Meaning you can't demand one price for a product from one gender and another price from another gender. Yet it's common practice from nightclubs in my country to keep charging different prices based on the gender of the customer. Several clubs have been pulled in court and judged to pay fines because of this, but they keep doing it. Nothing happens against a specific club and a specific incident unless someone experiencing it press charges with a lawyer in hand.

When money are involved, the law becomes less important for companies. As long as it is profitable for them to break the law, companies will break the law. The sad truth.

[MDT1]

Well at least Spiegel Online claims EA thinks everything is fine with Origin and it will stay mandatory for further games like ME3.

I don't know if I should just cancel my collectors edition know, or wait and hope EA sees reason and cancel it later if not.

Modifié par MDT1, 01 novembre 2011 - 12:21 .

[SalsaDMA]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Bostur wrote...

That would require me to accept the new terms though.

Well, you're not bound by the EULA anymore once you've removed the software, so it's a very transitory acceptance.

You say transitory, but if you have to agree to things before you install software you already owned, that's a bar in the way of you getting at your product.

The "all your data are ours" thing is a perfect example - imagine if, to open a book you already own, you had to give someone the right to rifle through your home?

It might be a quick thing, they might not even use it, but it's still there. If you value your privacy it's also a bar to you using something you've paid money for in good faith.

I think Valve have learnt lessons on this one - if you have the power to make unreasonable demands on gamers, then you'd better be especially careful that you're seen NOT to, or risk your userbase.

Yeah.

A good example would prob be all the young female stars that suddenly find out their 'transitory acceptance' of sending a picture of themselves naked to a boyfriend in the past means that their current career is affected by those pictures still existing.

Information doesn't die by itself just because it is not used. It can always be pulled forth again and used.

[marstor05]

I sense a massive drop in interest in ME3 once everyone actually realises what Origin does to your PC / XBodge ?PS3. Sorry but Spyware - even supposedly legal spyware which can rip any personal information from your hard drive it wants is completely and totally unacceptable.

[SalsaDMA]

MDT1 wrote...

Well at least Spiegel Online claims EA thinks everything is fine with Origin and it will stay mandatory for further games like ME3.

I don't know if I should just cancel my collectors edition know, or wait and hope EA sees reason and cancel it later if not.

Untill stockholders start getting nervous about all the bad rep the "service" is getting in the news, nothing will change.

You need stockholders to start worrying about the constant bad news reports to affect a company like EA. They're in it for the money, nothing else.

Hopefully the fact that it's gotten on the news will start making an issue appearant for them, but untill it gets big enough to attract the attention of news the stockholders reads, you're not getting much done.

[MartinDN]

Even after all this i bet 80% of us from this thread will still buy, no one is going to miss mass effect 3 after investing hundreds of hours into different characters, thats the problem people will still buy.

Looking forward to the faq from priestly though i hope in my heart alot of the devolopers are trying to push how much it sucks.

[PlumPaul93]

marstor05 wrote...

I sense a massive drop in interest in ME3 once everyone actually realises what Origin does to your PC / XBodge ?PS3. Sorry but Spyware - even supposedly legal spyware which can rip any personal information from your hard drive it wants is completely and totally unacceptable.

What does it do to the Xbox or PS3, I'll be buying ME3 for the 360? I haven't kept in touch with the news for a while so IDK. Also how do you know if origin is installed? Does it take over for the EA downloader and is called origin or is it still called EA download manager? I really don't know so sorry if I sound stupid.

Modifié par PlumPaul82393, 01 novembre 2011 - 12:30 .

[MDT1]

@SalsaDMA

Yes and no, EA would also react to a significant sales impact like a massive cancellation of pre orders.

Modifié par MDT1, 01 novembre 2011 - 12:31 .

[MDT1]

Yes of course its because of the investors, I just wanted to say, that as customers in theory we have the power to make EA "fear" the reaction of their investors and thus change their position.

I mean EA already moved a bit by adjusting their EULA though its only cosmetical as they claim origin is fine and don't intend to change anything on the program.

Modifié par MDT1, 01 novembre 2011 - 12:38 .

[PlumPaul93]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...What does it do to the Xbox or PS3, I'll be buying ME3 for the 360? I haven't kept in touch with the news for a while so IDK. Also how do you know if origin is installed? Does it take over for the EA downloader and is called origin or is it still called EA download manager? I really don't know so sorry if I sound stupid.

Clarification for an uniformed one would be cool.

[SalsaDMA]

If anything, the "Origin lives where you live. On your desktop and on the web. Origin is always there." campaign EA did set themselves up for a massive misjudgement of proper usage of words. At least seen from a marketing point of view.

From an outside point of view, those sinister words seem truer than ever, once we discovered just how intrusive it was.

Also, a fun strip concerning that initial campaign, to lighten up the mood somewhat: