3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Beyshaliban]

Forgive me if I'm repeating what's already been said. I use this opportunity mainly to vent my anger about Origin and to make a statement. Hoping that an exploded thread like this will draw some persons' eyes to it and make them wonder if Origin won't backfire in the long run.

A die hard Bioware fan speaking here:
As much as I was looking forward to play ME3, as much as I like Bioware games, as much as it will hurt me to ditch the newer games should they be revamped to require Origin as well, I will not use Origin.

Aside from it being intrusive, which is bad enough, really, the EULA for Origin is trying to evade Data Protection Law in Europe (I can't speak for US data protection law since I don't know any specifics about it). I do, however, know specifics for European law and even *if* a user agrees to this, it's still illegal to collect data in this dubious, unspecific manner. Not to mention the sharing of said data with unspecific "third parties".

I've spread the word among my friends and know of three pre-order cancellations ten minutes after I informed them. Not to mention my own cancellation.

As long as origin.exe remains as it is now, it will not run on my computer.

Venting won't help EA make up their mind about Origin. The number of pre-order cancellations and returned products might, though.

Again, I apologize for stating the obvious and repeating said things.

[vader da slayer]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

vader da slayer wrote...
fact is is the EULA is a contract in a sense as it's something you, the End User, Agree to abide by in order to use the product.

The fact that this "contract" is not presented to the purchaser PRIOR to the purchaser completing the sale makes it null and void under many countries consumer protection laws.

In regards to League of Legends monitoring your RAM, thats fine. Its not like you are going to access online banking, tax details etc while you are playing the game. They also make it very clear why they are doing it.
This is different to what Origin is doing, which is scanning your entire hard drive, plus registry, and taking notes on what you have installed, and give no reason why they are harvesting this level of data. Why should Origin need to access a tax program, or phone synch/connectivity program? Either its extremely poorly written, and thus susceptible to being hijacked teh way that Sony's CD rootkit was, or EA is trying to build up a profile of every single one of its customers, in order to turn them into a product to sell off to third parties.

on theh point of the laws in other countries (believe Australia has that law or something similar) the EULA isn't attached to the game but to Origin and Origin itself is free and if you have to accept/reject before install. so this wont be a way for anyone to get back to EA since the EULA can easily be viewed before installation. the Origin EULA isn't specfic to the game but to Origin, the game itself might have a slightly different EULA (or that might be all inclusive in Origin, dont really know) and thats what would need to be present, not Origins.

and like I said with the client scanning seemingly random things it shouldn't be, where as LoL scans ram Origin is scaning files to see if anything is linking back to the game. if it finds something in that directory with telephone numbers thats linked back to the game that isn't part of the files then it knows its probably a mod or some form of hack software. it is most likely looking but not touching if that makes sense. or thats what it should be donig.

[Cpl. Jenkins]

Dear guys from EA,
I hope for you, that there is a possibility to avoid origin as it was possible with ME 2. I am not willing to "legally" invite burglars into my house. No matter what! My data is confidential and none of your concerns! I won't pay a lot of money for a video game to get my banking accounts hacked and receive tons of spam. For the moment I am a fan of ME and ME 2 and of course I long for ME 3 to be released. Internet-registration with BSN for ME 2 was as far as I was willing to go, but if I have to install Spyware to see the end of the story, I will have to cancel my preorder for ME 3 CE! I won't be silent any longer, because this is unbearable!

regards

a legal, paying customer and not a criminal or a software pirate!

[Aeowyn]

Mesina2 wrote...

Nero Narmeril wrote...

Origin snooped in on somebody's tax information....all sorts of good private info can be obtained from that

Who keeps tax informations on PC? Or bank account (password or something)?

Idiots.

Or you know, people who declare their taxes online (something you can do in some countries in Europe).

Honestly, I can't believe it's taking this long for BioWare/EA to confirm if Origin will or will not be required to use with the retail copies of ME3.

[MDT1]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Reading this thread made me very glad that I bought a Xbox 360.

I already wondered if Origin is also a try to kill PC gaming ...

[elitecom]

MDT1 wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Reading this thread made me very glad that I bought a Xbox 360.

I already wondered if Origin is also a try to kill PC gaming ...

It sure makes things more complicated. Instead of just puttin the disk in the drive, you now need to authenticate your game which means that you must have an online connection, and allow your information on your PC to be scanned.

And here I thought that ME1 was an excellent lesson, people don't want that, they want the same system as in ME2.

[Metalrocks]

a legal, paying customer and not a criminal or a software pirate!

i dont think they care. for them, we are all criminals and are guilty for everything. hell, they would even open up a baby to make sure it dint steal anything

im pretty sure they will think of a way that consoles must have origin too just to play ME3 and others. i will not buy a damn console just for one game. i am a proud pc gamer and no console will take control over me. controler and FPS (shooter) dont mix. you never have the same reaction and accuracy as you do with a mouse.

[Cpl. Jenkins]

elitecom wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Reading this thread made me very glad that I bought a Xbox 360.

I already wondered if Origin is also a try to kill PC gaming ...

It sure makes things more complicated. Instead of just puttin the disk in the drive, you now need to authenticate your game which means that you must have an online connection, and allow your information on your PC to be scanned.

And here I thought that ME1 was an excellent lesson, people don't want that, they want the same system as in ME2.

That's it, bag'em and tag'em!

[Deathwurm]

I have to start by saying that I don't have Facebook and I never will...

Here in the States, there has been an ongoing story about how one young woman started a Facebook Petition collecting signatures of those who opposed a monthly $5(USD) service charge that Bank of America (a Bank that was bailed out by U.S. Taxpayers) was planning to institute for the "privilege" of using the Debit cards checking account holders had.

In less than a month, she was able to collect well over 300,000 signatures on-line, get major Media attention, and get Bank of America to give up on imposing the fee.

I was wondering if anyone has seen or started a Group/Petition/Page about the Origin EULA issue? The best way to spread the word and get attention on an issue these days seems to be through the Social Media Networks.

As I said, I don't use Facebook and I never will...it's worse than Origin, so I do feel a little hypocritical in asking others to do so...but if you already are using Facebook your Computer already has the Parasite in it.

[Mister Mida]

MDT1 wrote...

I already wondered if Origin is also a try to kill PC gaming ...

Not just Origin. Steam does the same. If I buy certain games on a disc (LotR: War in the North, Skyrim), I'm still forced to use Steam. I won't be swayed by that kind of corporate imperialism.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 02 novembre 2011 - 11:19 .

[Metalrocks]

Deathwurm wrote...

I have to start by saying that I don't have Facebook and I never will...

Here in the States, there has been an ongoing story about how one young woman started a Facebook Petition collecting signatures of those who opposed a monthly $5(USD) service charge that Bank of America (a Bank that was bailed out by U.S. Taxpayers) was planning to institute for the "privilege" of using the Debit cards checking account holders had.

In less than a month, she was able to collect well over 300,000 signatures on-line, get major Media attention, and get Bank of America to give up on imposing the fee.

I was wondering if anyone has seen or started a Group/Petition/Page about the Origin EULA issue? The best way to spread the word and get attention on an issue these days seems to be through the Social Media Networks.

As I said, I don't use Facebook and I never will...it's worse than Origin, so I do feel a little hypocritical in asking others to do so...but if you already are using Facebook your Computer already has the Parasite in it.

i guess it really depends on you what you share. i found my wife over FB and moved to hong kong. i only sahre infos i want wiht my friends and my setting is set to privat only. so no one else can access ym data. sure, FB has your data but as i said, it really depends on you alone what you want to share.
personally, i have just some photos and what i like. nothing really that cna access my privat life.

[CptData]

*sigh*

So the Origin stuff is still not yet cancelled?

It's interesting that EA tries to make criminals of us all. What's the point in bying a legal copy if you get illegal (spyware) on your PC because some freak (no better word for) decided to hack the PCs of customers?

Jesus. EA, you could save more millions of dollars when not using any kind of copy protection and/or hacks even if half of the world is using illegal copies. I even assume that half of the rips and leaked versions in the web are released by the very same guys that make copy protection systems. I mean, they need a reason to sell their stuff.

Just do it with a good ol' CD-key like ME1 and ME2. Authenticate the game - do it. Check it if it's legal - do it. Ban a user with an illegal copy - okay. But installing spyware to check for illegal copies is a big no go.

Capisce?

By the way ... I only hope some hackers find out how to spam the entire database with so much data you can't find out what your customers have on their PCs. Sorry - actively using criminal methods should be a no go. Money-making isn't everything, especially not when pointing a gun at your customer's face.

Modifié par CptData, 02 novembre 2011 - 11:20 .

[CptData]

Chloe_W1971 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

If you have signed the EULA and went ahead and installed the program, you don't have a legal basis for anything, so claiming that they will have to "change the EULA" or that "changing the EULA won't be enough" is silly.

Wrong. Under German law, you cannot waive privacy rights by signing a contract. If any part of a contract that you sign violates German law, that part of the contract becomes void.

That's true. In that case, half of the in Germany sold games are violating that law.

The EULA is not even allowed. NO EULA is. Why? Because you have to accept it before you can use your game / software. But you have to buy the game/software first BEFORE you can read the EULA. Would you buy a car without knowing the contract? I wouldn't. I want to read it BEFORE buying that car. Same for games. Technically, EULAs are illegal in Germany or at least no contracts (jur.)

In that case, Orgin is illegal. Actually we have a law in Germany that disallows criminal software like cracks, hacks & such - that also includes spyware, trojans and such. Origin is spyware - and therefore illegal in Germany.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Aeowyn wrote...

(...)

Honestly, I can't believe it's taking this long for BioWare/EA to confirm if Origin will or will not be required to use with the retail copies of ME3.

Yeah. Something is definitely up with this.

[CptData]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

(...)

Honestly, I can't believe it's taking this long for BioWare/EA to confirm if Origin will or will not be required to use with the retail copies of ME3.

Yeah. Something is definitely up with this.

Maybe they're watching BF3's sales figures and if there are any issues with laws in some countries (like Germany). If they face a lot of trouble they'll remove Origin from BF3 & co via patch and then they'll tell us if Origin is required for ME3 or not.

At least that's what I see here. Lets hope Origin will have LOTS of troubles - especially in second biggest gaming market - and that's Europe.

[Metalrocks]

CptData wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

(...)

Honestly, I can't believe it's taking this long for BioWare/EA to confirm if Origin will or will not be required to use with the retail copies of ME3.

Yeah. Something is definitely up with this.

Maybe they're watching BF3's sales figures and if there are any issues with laws in some countries (like Germany). If they face a lot of trouble they'll remove Origin from BF3 & co via patch and then they'll tell us if Origin is required for ME3 or not.

At least that's what I see here. Lets hope Origin will have LOTS of troubles - especially in second biggest gaming market - and that's Europe.

lets hope you are right about it. but i still think bioware should have the word. afterall its theire game and they should say how they want to sell it.
now germany is complainig about it (since i know german, no probs to understand) and EA has to take some action.
i really hope origin will be gone or not be required to play ME3. really want to know how it ends.

[AloraKast]

*sigh* Still making my way slooowly through these pages...

And you know what? Instead of scratching the collective heads in trying to come up with a "statement" which hopefully won't ****** off every Bioware fan out there, it appears to me that the good folks at Bioware (heck, even EA themselves) should look upon this situation with ME3 as a great opportunity to gain massive amounts of fan goodwill... and what's more, at no cost to themselves!

Still trying to arrive at a decision of how to handle Origin with the ME3 release? No problem. Have the Mass Effect team (who have worked tirelessly, I am sure, to bring this wonderful saga to a spectacular conclusion and poured endless amounts of blood and sweat into this product) announce that they have decided NOT to utilize Origin in ME3 in any way, shape or form, thus allaying fan fears, ensuring those that want to experience the result of their blood and sweat can do so without any inhibitions whatsoever, gaining themselves massive amounts of fan praise and goodwill, heck even love and adoration (and I think Bioware could use a bit of that, especially in the wake of DA2 and Origin fiasco), being seen as the good guys that will go to bat for their fans and generally coming out on top.

Have I mentioned the no cost to themselves? Since there already exists a form of DRM in linking your ME games to the EA account, why go out of your way, spend additional funds in implementing this new form of DRM (meaning Origin) which only will result in cancelled pre-orders and copies of ME3 not being purchased by folks who want to experience Shepard's final chapter but certainly not at the cost of their privacy?

Heck, the ME3 team can play off the perception of EA being the big, bad overlord and them standing up to EA and standing up for their fans by doing something like this. After all, it could be just another marketing campaign. Bioware is seen as the good guys who fight for their fans, the fans are able to purcharse and enjoy the game without any inhibitions of giving up their rights and the game is STILL protected by DRM which is not intrusive.

You wish to collect data on player likes, dislikes and playing habits? No problem, just ASK!!! With an option to decline of course.

This is a GOLDEN opportunity methinks where EVERYONE could come out on top and get what they want. Now only time will tell whether Bioware/EA are smart enough to grab it.

As for myself, I will be keeping my ears open. As much as I WANT to experience the final chapter of the ME trilogy (EA, you reading this? I'm actually WANTING to give you money!), should Origin be connected with ME3 in any way, shape or form, my hands will be tied.  I want absolutely nothing to do with Origin.

[CptData]

Metalrocks wrote...

CptData wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

(...)

Honestly, I can't believe it's taking this long for BioWare/EA to confirm if Origin will or will not be required to use with the retail copies of ME3.

Yeah. Something is definitely up with this.

Maybe they're watching BF3's sales figures and if there are any issues with laws in some countries (like Germany). If they face a lot of trouble they'll remove Origin from BF3 & co via patch and then they'll tell us if Origin is required for ME3 or not.

At least that's what I see here. Lets hope Origin will have LOTS of troubles - especially in second biggest gaming market - and that's Europe.

lets hope you are right about it. but i still think bioware should have the word. afterall its theire game and they should say how they want to sell it.
now germany is complainig about it (since i know german, no probs to understand) and EA has to take some action.
i really hope origin will be gone or not be required to play ME3. really want to know how it ends.

The thing is: Bioware is just Developer. EA gives money. And the one who gives money is the one who says what direction you should go. That's the main reason why this world is so FUBAR ... and I'm speaking of experience. If developers would have the word, everything would be fine ... or at least better.

[Hathur]

@AloraKast

It's not just about using Origin as DRM... Origin is a business platform for EA to sell games and make huge profits like Steam does... in order to legitimize Origin as a potential competitor to Steam, EA has to put blockbuster games on Origin and tie it firmly to it to ensure Origin takes off as a business platform in the future (much as Half-Life 2 was the catalyst to help launch Steam all those years ago).

So part of it is definitely DRM related.... but the other is of course to put Origin into the public eye more and try to get people to buy products from it (sadly it seems to so far be doing a good job at making people only wary of Origin as a service).

Modifié par Hathur, 02 novembre 2011 - 01:03 .

[Metalrocks]

CptData wrote

The thing is: Bioware is just Developer. EA gives money. And the one who gives money is the one who says what direction you should go. That's the main reason why this world is so FUBAR ... and I'm speaking of experience. If developers would have the word, everything would be fine ... or at least better.

damn, you are right.
well, i hope bioware will have the guts and stand up towards EA. afterall, bioware also wants to sell theire games and with origin on theire ass, they will lose lots of sales and customers.
i hope bioware can tell us soon enough if ME3 will be needing origin or not.

[Kroepoek]

If Origin is for game purposes, then it should stick to it. EA has absolutely no reason other than to make a profit on your behalf by scanning for things it shouldn't even be scanning for in the first place.

If Bioware/EA decides to make Mass Effect 3 an Origin exclusive, and I have to run Origin to play ME3, I will not buy it. Simple as that.

EA can go plum themselfs.

[AloraKast]

I hear ya Hathur and absolutely you are correct. I was trying to limit my Origin discussion to ME3 solely.

When it comes to Origin as a business platform, a viable competitior to Steam, well that all falls under EA. Still believe they got A LOT of work to do with Origin before it actually CAN pose a viable alternative to Steam, not the least of which is the bad press and perception that Origin has and is gaining - while Steam is seen as a more trustworthy option, generally.

And yes, as things stand now, the only thing Origin as a service is managing to do is make people wary and hesitant to even come near it (I myself run in the opposite direction whenever I see the Origin logo). I do believe EA HAVE to address this, and not merely by releasing more and more Origin exclusives but actually address the ROOT of the problem. Otherwise, their viable competitor to Steam won't be so viable.

But getting back to ME3, it would be so simple for Bioware, the developer, the people that actually MADE the game, to come out on top, be seen as the good guys who actually stand up for their fans. And like I mentioned, EVERYONE could benefit.

The question remains, WILL they make the sound business decision?

[DownyTif]

vader da slayer wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

vader da slayer wrote...
fact is is the EULA is a contract in a sense as it's something you, the End User, Agree to abide by in order to use the product.

The fact that this "contract" is not presented to the purchaser PRIOR to the purchaser completing the sale makes it null and void under many countries consumer protection laws.

In regards to League of Legends monitoring your RAM, thats fine. Its not like you are going to access online banking, tax details etc while you are playing the game. They also make it very clear why they are doing it.
This is different to what Origin is doing, which is scanning your entire hard drive, plus registry, and taking notes on what you have installed, and give no reason why they are harvesting this level of data. Why should Origin need to access a tax program, or phone synch/connectivity program? Either its extremely poorly written, and thus susceptible to being hijacked teh way that Sony's CD rootkit was, or EA is trying to build up a profile of every single one of its customers, in order to turn them into a product to sell off to third parties.

on theh point of the laws in other countries (believe Australia has that law or something similar) the EULA isn't attached to the game but to Origin and Origin itself is free and if you have to accept/reject before install. so this wont be a way for anyone to get back to EA since the EULA can easily be viewed before installation. the Origin EULA isn't specfic to the game but to Origin, the game itself might have a slightly different EULA (or that might be all inclusive in Origin, dont really know) and thats what would need to be present, not Origins.

and like I said with the client scanning seemingly random things it shouldn't be, where as LoL scans ram Origin is scaning files to see if anything is linking back to the game. if it finds something in that directory with telephone numbers thats linked back to the game that isn't part of the files then it knows its probably a mod or some form of hack software. it is most likely looking but not touching if that makes sense. or thats what it should be donig.

There is a difference between scanning RAM and a HDD. RAM is usually not contiguous, full of sparse data without tag names and I really don't think someone can distinct something. You need to know the addresses and what to expect. When scanning a HDD, you have the filenames and the linked content. A BIG difference.

[CptData]

Metalrocks wrote...

CptData wrote

The thing is: Bioware is just Developer. EA gives money. And the one who gives money is the one who says what direction you should go. That's the main reason why this world is so FUBAR ... and I'm speaking of experience. If developers would have the word, everything would be fine ... or at least better.

damn, you are right.
well, i hope bioware will have the guts and stand up towards EA. afterall, bioware also wants to sell theire games and with origin on theire ass, they will lose lots of sales and customers.
i hope bioware can tell us soon enough if ME3 will be needing origin or not.

I have no issues with a gaming portal. I also use Steam and the only issue I have is the lack of an "adult mode" - I wanna buy games NOT "localized" for the german audience. I want full gore, not a dumbed down version. But besides that, I'm okay.

Origin is not the problem, it's the spyware included. BF3 comes with such spyware and that was one of the reasons why I never bought it. So if ME3 needs Origin, I'm okay. If I need to install spyware to get ME3 running, I won't install ME3 and the game ends (unsatisfying) with ME2.

That's all I can say for now.