3140 réponses à ce sujet

[whitey4444]

Just putting this out there, but isn't the sort of searching through the hard drive directory something that can be performed (if the publisher so chooses) by PunkBuster, which is used for Battlefield 3? From memory of a similar thing that happened with a game a few years ago, most of the problems were related to PunkBuster, not the game/DRM itself. But I'm not too familiar, just wondering if anybody else knows more.

[DNRB]

CptData wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

(...)

Honestly, I can't believe it's taking this long for BioWare/EA to confirm if Origin will or will not be required to use with the retail copies of ME3.

Yeah. Something is definitely up with this.

Maybe they're watching BF3's sales figures and if there are any issues with laws in some countries (like Germany). If they face a lot of trouble they'll remove Origin from BF3 & co via patch and then they'll tell us if Origin is required for ME3 or not.

At least that's what I see here. Lets hope Origin will have LOTS of troubles - especially in second biggest gaming market - and that's Europe.

I don't think so, battlefield 3 is a bigger game than ME3. I don't think they would that much with BF3 just to see how origin will do. It has already been said, but it's more likely that they use it to launch BF3. Big game, lot of people are willing to install origin for it and yeah, once it's installed why not buy other ea games? 

[CptData]

whitey4444 wrote...

Just putting this out there, but isn't the sort of searching through the hard drive directory something that can be performed (if the publisher so chooses) by PunkBuster, which is used for Battlefield 3? From memory of a similar thing that happened with a game a few years ago, most of the problems were related to PunkBuster, not the game/DRM itself. But I'm not too familiar, just wondering if anybody else knows more.

PunkBuster isn't scanning your entire PC. It does, however, scan your memory for known signatures of cheating tools - at least that's what I know. Could be outdated.

Steam is scanning your hardware but doesn't go too deep into your folders. I think it's also scanning memory.

I just don't want to have another piece of spyware on my PC. If EA needs to know what kind of hardware I'm using - okay. If they want to know if I'm male and older than 18 to buy violent video games - okay. If they want to know if I had nude pictures of my girlfriend on my PC - not okay.

It's just that. They don't need to scan my entire PC just to find evidence I once had an illegal copy of a 10 year old EA game or something.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Raygereio wrote...

BioWare; I know you have no real say in this matter, but take a message to your EA overlords. We want to buy your games. We really do. Would you kindly stop doing everything in your power to make us stop buying your games

^ THIS.

[Il Divo]

Gotta love Bioshock references. Bonus points, for that.

[Metalrocks]

CptData wrote...

I have no issues with a gaming portal. I also use Steam and the only issue I have is the lack of an "adult mode" - I wanna buy games NOT "localized" for the german audience. I want full gore, not a dumbed down version. But besides that, I'm okay.

Origin is not the problem, it's the spyware included. BF3 comes with such spyware and that was one of the reasons why I never bought it. So if ME3 needs Origin, I'm okay. If I need to install spyware to get ME3 running, I won't install ME3 and the game ends (unsatisfying) with ME2.

That's all I can say for now.

yes, thats true about steam and the country you live in. i lived once in switzerland, so i know too well what kind of crap germany has with cut version. thats why i always got my self US versions form a special store at that time.

i wanted to get my self BF3 but what origin does, is unacceptable. just like you, i will not buy ME3 if origin keeps up this stupid policy. i want to know how i can end this epic saga but EA checking my things, this game wil not touch my pc.

[Chloe_W1971]

CptData wrote...

*Quote snipped*

Steam is scanning your hardware but doesn't go too deep into your folders. I think it's also scanning memory.

I just don't want to have another piece of spyware on my PC. If EA needs to know what kind of hardware I'm using - okay. If they want to know if I'm male and older than 18 to buy violent video games - okay. If they want to know if I had nude pictures of my girlfriend on my PC - not okay.

It's just that. They don't need to scan my entire PC just to find evidence I once had an illegal copy of a 10 year old EA game or something.

And it appears they haven't needed to do any of this before. Remember, ME1 came with a stupid, horrible mess of a DRM system that allowed you to install it exactly five times. ME2 thankfully got rid of that and had me register my game with BSN instead, as did DA:O and DA2. I can live with that, even though I'd prefer a simple DVD check. 

But now, all of a sudden, we need even more intrusive software installed on our PCs just to play a game?! Seriously, Bioware? ME3 retails for around 60€ in Europe, so I'm giving you money and I'm treated as if I'm suspected of software piracy?!

No, seriously, guys, if that's how you want to play this, I'm cancelling my preorder for ME3 and you won't be seeing any of my money again until you manage to see some sense.

Edited for emphasis
Edited again for yet more emphasis

Modifié par Chloe_W1971, 02 novembre 2011 - 02:32 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

CptData wrote...

I have no issues with a gaming portal. I also use Steam and the only issue I have is the lack of an "adult mode" - I wanna buy games NOT "localized" for the german audience. I want full gore, not a dumbed down version. But besides that, I'm okay.

Origin is not the problem, it's the spyware included. BF3 comes with such spyware and that was one of the reasons why I never bought it. So if ME3 needs Origin, I'm okay. If I need to install spyware to get ME3 running, I won't install ME3 and the game ends (unsatisfying) with ME2.

That's all I can say for now.

I do have an issue with the "gaming portal" concept.  I don't need a portal, I don't need a download manager, I don't need any of that crap.  Just let me buy the damn game on disk, and if it's something I need to download just give me a damn link and let me download it.  Hell, I'd rather use FTP than a download manager.  They need to stop trying to "help", stop trying to make things "easy", stop trying to hold my hand and look over my shoulder... just get the hell out of the way and let me buy, install, and use their software.  Holy cow. 

[Chloe_W1971]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I do have an issue with the "gaming portal" concept.  I don't need a portal, I don't need a download manager, I don't need any of that crap.  Just let me buy the damn game on disk, and if it's something I need to download just give me a damn link and let me download it.  Hell, I'd rather use FTP than a download manager.  They need to stop trying to "help", stop trying to make things "easy", stop trying to hold my hand and look over my shoulder... just get the hell out of the way and let me buy, install, and use their software.  Holy cow. 

<------------------ *supports this*

[Mister Mida]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I do have an issue with the "gaming portal" concept.  I don't need a portal, I don't need a download manager, I don't need any of that crap.  Just let me buy the damn game on disk, and if it's something I need to download just give me a damn link and let me download it.  Hell, I'd rather use FTP than a download manager.  They need to stop trying to "help", stop trying to make things "easy", stop trying to hold my hand and look over my shoulder... just get the hell out of the way and let me buy, install, and use their software.  Holy cow. 

Yeah, the gaming portal thing is definitely a deal breaker for me as well. It may have sounded cool back when Steam was new and all, but right now I just find it tedious, intrusive, useless and maybe even outdated.

[CptData]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
I do have an issue with the "gaming portal" concept.  I don't need a portal, I don't need a download manager, I don't need any of that crap.  Just let me buy the damn game on disk, and if it's something I need to download just give me a damn link and let me download it.  Hell, I'd rather use FTP than a download manager.  They need to stop trying to "help", stop trying to make things "easy", stop trying to hold my hand and look over my shoulder... just get the hell out of the way and let me buy, install, and use their software.  Holy cow. 

In some points I understand you. 

My goal is a different one here: just give us gaming portals and make any new released games "free2play". If you want the full game you need to pay 50 bucks (good ol' prize) and it'll be activated. If you don't want to buy it you'll have just some basic features or the game works as a demo - means - you can download it everywhere, can play the first 3 levels and the rest of the game is locked until you buy it.

Example: lets say EA makes ME "F2P". If you don't own a legal copy you can get a F2P key for your ME. It's for free, but some key features are locked: you can't level up beyond level 20 and you can't export a F2P-character to ME2. DLCs don't work either. So you still can enjoy ME, but not the full experience.
If you want to make a full ME out of your "pirate ME" you need to buy it.

For ME2 it's the same: you could play it F2P, but none of the DLCs can be activated. Maybe you even can't recruit ALL characters and you can't create a savegame that can be imported to ME3. If you want full experience you need to buy the game. 'nuff said.

That's what gaming portals are made for. For no other reason. And that's why I am supporting that idea. It removes piracy almost entirely and the need of pesky copy protection, country code and such stuff. That's all.

Wanna see something for the future. And yes, I want the full experience, so I buy games.

[Chloe_W1971]

CptData,

I would agree if the gaming portals were completely optional, as in if I buy my game on a DVD, I don't have to use them. If I'm not interesting in demos, I don't have to use them. If I want the full experience, I can get it either via some online gaming portal or on a frakking disk without being hassled by the publisher

[Lumikki]

Hathur wrote...

@AloraKast

It's not just about using Origin as DRM... Origin is a business platform for EA to sell games and make huge profits like Steam does... in order to legitimize Origin as a potential competitor to Steam, EA has to put blockbuster games on Origin and tie it firmly to it to ensure Origin takes off as a business platform in the future (much as Half-Life 2 was the catalyst to help launch Steam all those years ago).

So part of it is definitely DRM related.... but the other is of course to put Origin into the public eye more and try to get people to buy products from it (sadly it seems to so far be doing a good job at making people only wary of Origin as a service).

Yeah, that is what they try to do, but the issues is they do it the way what doesn't respect they customers.

Little like forcing EA's customers totally under EA's needs. Also forcing people to do what they don't want only works for sertain limits. More you push people, more they drop out. That's what's happining here, some people are allready saying No thanks.

I ques EA has to think maybe they tryed to do this little too forceful. It's better give people free choise than try to force them to do something what they don't like. Steam got popular because they did not push too hard, even if they still cause some people to drop out. Meaning using external access system for games, when it's also spyware and marketing tool for games, isn't acceptable for everyone.

What they cause to happen with these systems is more and more people go direction of piracy. Because it leaves them only three options, accept the system or not to play games at all or play pirate version of the game.  Problem is companies looks too much situation from direction what's good for them and too little what they customers wants. I ques that's curse when you become very powerful, you lose site of respect your customers and start thinking you can do what ever you want. Untill...

Modifié par Lumikki, 02 novembre 2011 - 02:52 .

[CptData]

Chloe_W1971 wrote...

CptData,

I would agree if the gaming portals were completely optional, as in if I buy my game on a DVD, I don't have to use them. If I'm not interesting in demos, I don't have to use them. If I want the full experience, I can get it either via some online gaming portal or on a frakking disk without being hassled by the publisher

As I said before ... I dunno if that's the future. I think we'll see a "F2P future" and it's optional to buy a game if you're happy with a demo.

All I want is to buy a game, activate it via wha'ever you call it and can play it as long as I want, reload it via WWW so I don't need my DVD to install that game, get frequently patches and such ... that's it. I'm in that business for 18 years or so (I'm almost 30)  and I know why you talk like that. I wish things were less complicated like in good ol' days. But I fear they won't come back.

I also fear a future where every major publisher wants to plant spyware and trojans on your PC just to ensure you're not using illegal copies. Just make ALL copies legal, get rid of that copy protection and just work with accounts and CD-keys. Activate your game, either it's F2P or a full version and done. No more piracy (in theory) ... and no more "customers are criminals campaigns". At least in the most positive outcome of that scenario.

[KungFuTurtle]

Lumikki wrote...

Hathur wrote...

@AloraKast

It's not just about using Origin as DRM... Origin is a business platform for EA to sell games and make huge profits like Steam does... in order to legitimize Origin as a potential competitor to Steam, EA has to put blockbuster games on Origin and tie it firmly to it to ensure Origin takes off as a business platform in the future (much as Half-Life 2 was the catalyst to help launch Steam all those years ago).

So part of it is definitely DRM related.... but the other is of course to put Origin into the public eye more and try to get people to buy products from it (sadly it seems to so far be doing a good job at making people only wary of Origin as a service).

Yeah, that is what they try to do, but the issues is they do it the way what doesn't respect they customers.

Little like forcing EA's customers totally under EA's needs. Also forcing people to do what they don't want only works for sertain limits. More you push people, more they drop out. That's what's happining here, some people are allready saying No thanks.

I ques EA has to think maybe they tryed to do this little too forceful. It's better give people free choise than try to force them to do something what they don't like. Steam got popular because they did not push too hard, even if they still cause some people to drop out. Meaning using fully controlled single control system for games isn't acceptable for everyone.

What they cause to happen with these systems is more and more people go direction of piracy. Problem is companies looks too much situation from direction what's good for them and too little what they customers wants. I ques that's curse when you come very powerful, you lose site of respect your customers and start thinking you can do what ever you want. Untill...

Steam worked I think because they started out as innocent looking and slowly over the years became a bit more and more intrusive. But it happened slow over the years so people didnt notice or care too much. Origin is trying to go all out fully aggressive but doesn't have the history, customer loyalty or street-cred to do what Steam can do. Basically, Steam started off by banging you nice and slow and gentle over time, making it a nice or easy experience while Origin just pins your ankles to your ears and all out starts banging you like a cheap hooker.

[Chloe_W1971]

Well, I'm not the most optimistic person you're likely to meet, so my quick guess here is that there will always be piracy. No DRM method so far has managed to prevent illegal copies of games, nor do I think it will ever happen. Regardless, I understand that companies want to protect their intellectual property. If they go about it like EA does with Origin, then they will lose customers. I am sick of being treated as a potential criminal, and I won't support any company that sees fit to treat me thus.

So, Bioware can announce their decision regarding the use of Origin for ME3, and then we can all make an informed decision. If they decide to go with it, fine. I won't support them with my money any further in that case, but then I don't need to play Mass Effect 3. If they decide to ditch Origin, just as fine, and I'll keep my preorder and, provided they don't pull any similar shenanigans with their next games, I'll probably keep buying them.

One other thing: Policing isn't the business of EA or any other company. It's the business of the police. If EA suspects me of any illegal activities concerning their products, they can file a complaint against me, and the police will do the gathering of evidence gladly. If not, they can stop treating me as a potential suspect.

And that's pretty much all I have to say on the subject. I'm waiting for their announcement regarding ME3 and Origin and act accordingly once it's published.

Edited for style fail

Modifié par Chloe_W1971, 02 novembre 2011 - 02:54 .

[Sanunes]

CptData wrote...
As I said before ... I dunno if that's the future. I think we'll see a "F2P future" and it's optional to buy a game if you're happy with a demo.

All I want is to buy a game, activate it via wha'ever you call it and can play it as long as I want, reload it via WWW so I don't need my DVD to install that game, get frequently patches and such ... that's it. I'm in that business for 18 years or so (I'm almost 30)  and I know why you talk like that. I wish things were less complicated like in good ol' days. But I fear they won't come back.

I also fear a future where every major publisher wants to plant spyware and trojans on your PC just to ensure you're not using illegal copies. Just make ALL copies legal, get rid of that copy protection and just work with accounts and CD-keys. Activate your game, either it's F2P or a full version and done. No more piracy (in theory) ... and no more "customers are criminals campaigns". At least in the most positive outcome of that scenario.

I agree with what you are saying and I would like to see a F2P system in place for I would probably try more games and that would lead to me buying more, but gamers themselves have to change before a system like that is implemented.  Too many people are already going to 3rd parties for DLC because "it was stripped from the main game" or "its too much money" excuses to justify their actions.

[MDT1]

Chloe_W1971 wrote...

Well, I'm not the most optimistic person you're likely to meet, so my quick guess here is that there will always be piracy. No DRM method so far has managed to prevent illegal copies of games, nor do I think it will ever happen. Regardless, I understand that companies want to protect their intellectual property. If they go about it like EA does with Origin, then they will lose customers. I am sick of being treated as a potential criminal, and I won't support any company that sees fit to treat me thus.

This is exactly what makes me sick about origin.
It has no effect on piracy (origin even adervertises to pirate products that require origins imho, which makes me somehow sad) as pirats just wont use it for obvious reasons. Also how many pirates would suddenly start buying all products they would normally pirate because piracy has become impossible, my guess is about none. All this piracy argumentation is just to hide marketing and management problems and their real intents in such occasions which aren't customer firendly at all (datamining, no reselling, no borrowing etc...).

-Origin is an EA only online store which is a step backwards for digital selling in itself and shouldn't be supportet. Ea shows here again that their thinking got stuck in the last millenium.

-Origin is a data mining tool, as each company would like  to know as much as possible about their customers, and Ea can't serioulsy think I buy it that they write such things in the EULA but have no intend to abuse data I don't even want them to have.

So imho Origin is just EA answer to how much they think they can exploit legal PC customers before they stop buying their games.

Modifié par MDT1, 02 novembre 2011 - 03:16 .

[Hathur]

KungFuTurtle wrote...

Steam worked I think because they started out as innocent looking and slowly over the years became a bit more and more intrusive. But it happened slow over the years so people didnt notice or care too much. Origin is trying to go all out fully aggressive but doesn't have the history, customer loyalty or street-cred to do what Steam can do. Basically, Steam started off by banging you nice and slow and gentle over time, making it a nice or easy experience while Origin just pins your ankles to your ears and all out starts banging you like a cheap hooker.

I think we could've managed without that analogy.... <_<

[FeralEwok]

Hathur wrote...

KungFuTurtle wrote...

Steam worked I think because they started out as innocent looking and slowly over the years became a bit more and more intrusive. But it happened slow over the years so people didnt notice or care too much. Origin is trying to go all out fully aggressive but doesn't have the history, customer loyalty or street-cred to do what Steam can do. Basically, Steam started off by banging you nice and slow and gentle over time, making it a nice or easy experience while Origin just pins your ankles to your ears and all out starts banging you like a cheap hooker.

I think we could've managed without that analogy.... <_<

Second this

[lovgreno]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I do have an issue with the "gaming portal" concept.  I don't need a portal, I don't need a download manager, I don't need any of that crap.  Just let me buy the damn game on disk, and if it's something I need to download just give me a damn link and let me download it.  Hell, I'd rather use FTP than a download manager.  They need to stop trying to "help", stop trying to make things "easy", stop trying to hold my hand and look over my shoulder... just get the hell out of the way and let me buy, install, and use their software.  Holy cow. 

Limiting the choices of a potential buyer is a very risky way of selling things, if the costumers feels too bound to things they don't ask for they will soon look for other places to spend their hard earned money. Of course this also goes for big companies like EA and BioWare and their often good products like for example Mass Effect 3 as well. I don't doubt that they have financial and legal muscles as well as good products to support things like Origins but that matters little if the potential costumers don't feel that they can trust them.

[Sanunes]

Chloe_W1971 wrote...

One other thing: Policing isn't the business of EA or any other company. It's the business of the police. If EA suspects me of any illegal activities concerning their products, they can file a complaint against me, and the police will do the gathering of evidence gladly. If not, they can stop treating me as a potential suspect.

I understand what you are saying, but we already do a lot of help police ourselves from criminals with using items like car keys or even logins to our computers at home and work, businesses have security cameras, the sensor systems, and security guards too.

I am not a big fan of everything Origin does (or Steam for that matter), but I find it no different then what brick and mortar stores are doing trying to keep their product from being stolen, for everytime I see a store that has been a victim of shoplifting or theft their security gets increased to try and prevent future theft.

[CptData]

MDT1 wrote...

This is exactly what makes me sick about origin.
It has no effect on piracy (origin even adervertises to pirate products that require origins imho, which makes me somehow sad) as pirats just wont use it for obvious reasons. Also how many pirates would suddenly start buying all products they would normally pirate because piracy has become impossible, my guess is about none. All this piracy argumentation is just to hide marketing and management problems and their real intents in such occasions which aren't customer firendly at all (datamining, no reselling, no borrowing etc...).

Exactly. EA spyware won't change a tad against piracy - they'll just find a way how to hack the game and will play it anyways. But the normal user will get tracked by Origin, EA knows everything and could use it against the user. I'm not saying EA -is- actively using that data against a user, but EA COULD.

To end piracy you need to take a different route. 
First is to get respect of your customers. Making them to criminals won't help you.
Then you need to give them what they want: good games, good support. No badly written games riddled by bugs and issues without proper support.
And finally make games inexpensive (not cheap!!!) - that's the F2P route. Allow players to play your game for free, but if they want the full experience, make them to buy that game.

Remember those days of shareware? That's how it's done. And gaming portals are just there to authenticate & activate your game - shareware to fullware

[BurtonSD]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

CptData wrote...

I have no issues with a gaming portal. I also use Steam and the only issue I have is the lack of an "adult mode" - I wanna buy games NOT "localized" for the german audience. I want full gore, not a dumbed down version. But besides that, I'm okay.

Origin is not the problem, it's the spyware included. BF3 comes with such spyware and that was one of the reasons why I never bought it. So if ME3 needs Origin, I'm okay. If I need to install spyware to get ME3 running, I won't install ME3 and the game ends (unsatisfying) with ME2.

That's all I can say for now.

I do have an issue with the "gaming portal" concept.  I don't need a portal, I don't need a download manager, I don't need any of that crap.  Just let me buy the damn game on disk, and if it's something I need to download just give me a damn link and let me download it.  Hell, I'd rather use FTP than a download manager.  They need to stop trying to "help", stop trying to make things "easy", stop trying to hold my hand and look over my shoulder... just get the hell out of the way and let me buy, install, and use their software.  Holy cow. 

/thread

Awesome post.

[Lumikki]

Sanunes wrote...

I am not a big fan of everything Origin does (or Steam for that matter), but I find it no different then what brick and mortar stores are doing trying to keep their product from being stolen, for everytime I see a store that has been a victim of shoplifting or theft their security gets increased to try and prevent future theft.

It's not the same.

When you are in shop, you are inside they private property. Everyone has right to protect they own privacy and property. When someone steal something from store or does any crime, they are then judged by society rules. Usually police does this, but sometimes some private security forces. Big difference is they go after the criminal AFTER the crime has happen. Also when they do stuff, they have limits and laws controlling what they can do and how.

Modern companies (with steam and origin) doesn't just go after criminals, they go after EVERYONE. They break everyones privacy to find criminals or trying to prevent crimes to happen. This is controlling and monitor society, where others spy others. This means they are inside your private property.

Point is, one protects they own privacy and property while other is intrusion of your privacy.

Modifié par Lumikki, 02 novembre 2011 - 04:04 .