3140 réponses à ce sujet

[MDT1]

CptData wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

This is exactly what makes me sick about origin.
It has no effect on piracy (origin even adervertises to pirate products that require origins imho, which makes me somehow sad) as pirats just wont use it for obvious reasons. Also how many pirates would suddenly start buying all products they would normally pirate because piracy has become impossible, my guess is about none. All this piracy argumentation is just to hide marketing and management problems and their real intents in such occasions which aren't customer firendly at all (datamining, no reselling, no borrowing etc...).

Exactly. EA spyware won't change a tad against piracy - they'll just find a way how to hack the game and will play it anyways. But the normal user will get tracked by Origin, EA knows everything and could use it against the user. I'm not saying EA -is- actively using that data against a user, but EA COULD.

To end piracy you need to take a different route. 
First is to get respect of your customers. Making them to criminals won't help you.
Then you need to give them what they want: good games, good support. No badly written games riddled by bugs and issues without proper support.
And finally make games inexpensive (not cheap!!!) - that's the F2P route. Allow players to play your game for free, but if they want the full experience, make them to buy that game.

Remember those days of shareware? That's how it's done. And gaming portals are just there to authenticate & activate your game - shareware to fullware

Exactly, excessive piracy is just a symptom for the real problem gaming/movie/musik industries are facing.
The huge discrepancy between the sum a customer wants to spend each month for theeir products and the sum the companies would like to earn from each customer.
You could say im an illusionist but think about the following. Player A and B would like to buy two games but everyone has only the money for one.
Today situation each player will buy one game.
But if publishers would half the price each player could buy both, the publisher would earn the same and everyone would be happy.
Now I know this example is quite a simplification, but the truth is that you often can make more profit by lowering prices in the right way and if anything piracy shows there are far more people interested in a computer game than actually buy it.

Modifié par MDT1, 02 novembre 2011 - 03:45 .

[ColorMeSuprised]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

CptData wrote...

I have no issues with a gaming portal. I also use Steam and the only issue I have is the lack of an "adult mode" - I wanna buy games NOT "localized" for the german audience. I want full gore, not a dumbed down version. But besides that, I'm okay.

Origin is not the problem, it's the spyware included. BF3 comes with such spyware and that was one of the reasons why I never bought it. So if ME3 needs Origin, I'm okay. If I need to install spyware to get ME3 running, I won't install ME3 and the game ends (unsatisfying) with ME2.

That's all I can say for now.

I do have an issue with the "gaming portal" concept.  I don't need a portal, I don't need a download manager, I don't need any of that crap.  Just let me buy the damn game on disk, and if it's something I need to download just give me a damn link and let me download it.  Hell, I'd rather use FTP than a download manager.  They need to stop trying to "help", stop trying to make things "easy", stop trying to hold my hand and look over my shoulder... just get the hell out of the way and let me buy, install, and use their software.  Holy cow. 

/sign

That's the reason I'm so awfully angry with that stupid statement. I do not need that!  I can download my own patch and take care of my settings. I don't need some stupid programm that wants to "help" me...

[Killjoy Cutter]

The nickle-and-dime approach of DLC isn't very conducive to a positive relationship with customers, though.

[CptData]

MDT1 wrote...
Exactly, excessive piracy is just a symptom for the real problem gaming/movie/musik industries are facing.
The huge discrepancy between the sum a customer wants to spend each month for theeir products and the sum the companies would like to earn from each customer.

Indeed. I have a small budget for computer games and usually I use it up. It's 100 Euros per month (= 2 major games) so I can't buy more once everything is spent. It's not cumulative - if I don't spend 50 Euros last month I won't have 150 Euros for games this month.

But lets ignore that point. All I can say: I have a certain amount of money for games. If that amount is used up I can't buy games anymore. And I don't download them illegally.

You could say im an illusionist but think about the following. Player A and B would like to buy two games but everyone has only the money for one.
Today situation each player will buy one game.
But if publishers would half the price each player could buy both, the publisher would earn the same and everyone would be happy.

The Publisher don't even have to reduce prices by half. Actually, it wouldn't make sense for the publisher - he would just get the same amount of money for double effort.
Your idea works if you say the publisher lowers prize by one third.
Maybe that's enough so both players can buy both games.

Old prize ($50) will result in two players buying one game each for $50. Publisher will have an income of $100 for two games.

New prize ($35) will result in two players buying two games each for $70. Income is $140 for four games. It's not $200 like it would be for old prize if players could afford both games but still $40 more than in first scenario.

Now I know this example is quite a simplification, but the truth is that you often can make more profit by lowering prices in the right way and if anything piracy shows there are far more people interested in a computer game than actually buy it.

Yes.

[shepskisaac]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

The fact that nobody in "the know" is saying anything about this is a bit worrying, as far as I can see there are three options..

1.. Declare that an acceptance of Origin on your system will be required and face the wrath of consumers now five months before release damaging sales.

2.. Say nothing but keep Origins as necessary in the hopes that nobody notices the small print until it's too late and is so desperate to play part 3 they accept it having paid the money.

3.. Declare that Origins wont be necessary/optional and make everybody happy and looking forward to continuing their Shepherd's wanderings.

I think option 2 looks likely as most people wont see this stuff being written and why would a company with people cancelling orders not put them straight if it was going to make their customers return ?

Quite frankly however much EA/Bioware/whoever stands to make from using this intrusive software it's a false economy, not only will they lose sales but they could create another market beyond their control. If I was a computer genius or maker of pirate games ( which I'm not ) I'd be rubbing my hands with glee at the idea of a new market for my products looming on the horizon..

Whatever the reason was, I don't think it's relevant anymore. Origin & EA are making headlines again sue to spyware accusations. Too soon after the last incident. This may change whatever plans they had.

[DownyTif]

CptData wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

This is exactly what makes me sick about origin.
It has no effect on piracy (origin even adervertises to pirate products that require origins imho, which makes me somehow sad) as pirats just wont use it for obvious reasons. Also how many pirates would suddenly start buying all products they would normally pirate because piracy has become impossible, my guess is about none. All this piracy argumentation is just to hide marketing and management problems and their real intents in such occasions which aren't customer firendly at all (datamining, no reselling, no borrowing etc...).

Exactly. EA spyware won't change a tad against piracy - they'll just find a way how to hack the game and will play it anyways. But the normal user will get tracked by Origin, EA knows everything and could use it against the user. I'm not saying EA -is- actively using that data against a user, but EA COULD.

To end piracy you need to take a different route. 
First is to get respect of your customers. Making them to criminals won't help you.
Then you need to give them what they want: good games, good support. No badly written games riddled by bugs and issues without proper support.
And finally make games inexpensive (not cheap!!!) - that's the F2P route. Allow players to play your game for free, but if they want the full experience, make them to buy that game.

Remember those days of shareware? That's how it's done. And gaming portals are just there to authenticate & activate your game - shareware to fullware

To my knowledge, there is only one company that understands this and is actually applying it. It's called Stardock (creators of Galactic Civilization 1-2, Sins of a Solar Empire, Elemental). Brad Wardell even created the www.gamersbillofrights.com/. I love their company. The support is phenomenal and oh... NO DRM. And you know what? I know a lot of people, me included, that are more than happy to buy their games and more than happy to not accept any illegal copies even if served on a golden plate. You know what? Because they care about us, the customers.

I just wish the Gamers Bill of Rights would actually become a standard in the industry. But because of greedy %/$!%!%, nope it's utopic.

Modifié par DownyTif, 02 novembre 2011 - 04:13 .

[LadyAlekto]

theres also paradox that ship without drm and the likes (and the good is? i can dl their title, try them, and probably go buy them before finishing a half hour..)

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

The fact that nobody in "the know" is saying anything about this is a bit worrying, as far as I can see there are three options..

1.. Declare that an acceptance of Origin on your system will be required and face the wrath of consumers now five months before release damaging sales.

2.. Say nothing but keep Origins as necessary in the hopes that nobody notices the small print until it's too late and is so desperate to play part 3 they accept it having paid the money.

3.. Declare that Origins wont be necessary/optional and make everybody happy and looking forward to continuing their Shepherd's wanderings.

I think option 2 looks likely as most people wont see this stuff being written and why would a company with people cancelling orders not put them straight if it was going to make their customers return ?

Quite frankly however much EA/Bioware/whoever stands to make from using this intrusive software it's a false economy, not only will they lose sales but they could create another market beyond their control. If I was a computer genius or maker of pirate games ( which I'm not ) I'd be rubbing my hands with glee at the idea of a new market for my products looming on the horizon..

Except most of those computer geniuses do it out of the kindness of their heart

All things considered, I'm probably just going to buy it for console a little while after release, (aka used) or rent it.

If EA does option 3, I will preorder a collectors edition though (or if they overhaul Origin's TOS I may even buy a digital deluxe edition)...although the retail copy is better which confuses me.

[Raygereio]

DownyTif wrote...
I know a lot of people, me included, that are more than happy to buy their games and more than happy to not accept any illegal copies even if served on a golden plate. You know what? Because they care about us, the customers.

More importantly: getting the non-pirated versions of their games to work requires less work and has less potential problems (bugs not withstanding) then the pirated version.
This is something crucial that for some weird reason pretty much no one in a position of power in the industry understands: the pirated versions of most games in last decade have become the superior versions. Not because they're free, but because there is no DRM related headaches that can vary from it preventing me from playing the game, to it screwing with my computer.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Chris Priestly wrote...

trayno wrote...

Any reasonable estimates as to when said clarification can be given? 

Hopefully in time to cancel the preorder should it turn out that Origin will be required.

Greetings,
Trayno

No estimate yet, but  it is in progress. Since you can cancel up to day of launch, this does give a little buffer.

I am indeed glad you are seriously addressing this issue. One of two things NEEDS to change.

Either rework Origin so as to make it not Spyware and remove the need for forced logins to keep subscriptions active (this still makes no sense to me, why it exists and EA has said nothing to clarify).

Or

Remove forced Origin and allow retail copies to be played without Origin Client (or any of the drawbacks of said client).

I know both of these things are out of Bioware's hands more or less, however the disgruntled nature of its consumers needs to be addressed. This isn't a problem that will go away.

As much as I love your games, I'm going to be forced to probably just rent it for console (PS3) if the PC issue doesn't get resolved. I will not tolerate Origin's criminal actions (they would be if not for the useragreement).

Still thank you for listening and giving us more feedback than a lot of developers would.

I really hope this gets resolved before the new year however.

[Jaesun999]

I will not be purchasing ME3 if it forces me to install Origin, if that is my only option as a paying consumer. If they went back to a one time only activation like the previous titles used, I would be completely fine with that. I have no interest at all in Multi-Player.

[SalsaDMA]

Aeowyn wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Nero Narmeril wrote...

Origin snooped in on somebody's tax information....all sorts of good private info can be obtained from that

Who keeps tax informations on PC? Or bank account (password or something)?

Idiots.

Or you know, people who declare their taxes online (something you can do in some countries in Europe).

Honestly, I can't believe it's taking this long for BioWare/EA to confirm if Origin will or will not be required to use with the retail copies of ME3.

In Denmark it's been adopted as the standard way of doing it by the government. We're not even sent any papers any more from them, but asked to look up the info ourselves on their server with our logins -.-

[SalsaDMA]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

Remove forced Origin and allow retail copies to be played without Origin Client (or any of the drawbacks of said client).

This is the only way I would buy the game.

Sorry, but I lost all trust in EA by now and I'm not installing Origin at all. It only takes a forced update to change things from bad to worse. They already showed they are more than willing to do these kind of things when they forcibly migrated all our EA acounts into Origin acounts to artificially bump up their figures of 'registered Origin acounts'.

I can no longer take anything EA states at face value, and only an Origin free game would be installed on my system.

I'm not giving up my rights for a game.

[AdmiralCheez]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

Quite frankly however much EA/Bioware/whoever stands to make from using this intrusive software it's a false economy, not only will they lose sales but they could create another market beyond their control. If I was a computer genius or maker of pirate games ( which I'm not ) I'd be rubbing my hands with glee at the idea of a new market for my products looming on the horizon..

No kidding.

"Hey let's show those pirates who's boss by making it incredibly difficult to play the game legally!"

Sheesh.

[Chloe_W1971]

SalsaDMA wrote...

This is the only way I would buy the game.

Sorry, but I lost all trust in EA by now and I'm not installing Origin at all. It only takes a forced update to change things from bad to worse. They already showed they are more than willing to do these kind of things when they forcibly migrated all our EA acounts into Origin acounts to artificially bump up their figures of 'registered Origin acounts'.

I can no longer take anything EA states at face value, and only an Origin free game would be installed on my system.

I'm not giving up my rights for a game.

Well, technically you wouldn't be giving up your rights, you would just refrain from exercising them.

[elitecom]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

CptData wrote...

I have no issues with a gaming portal. I also use Steam and the only issue I have is the lack of an "adult mode" - I wanna buy games NOT "localized" for the german audience. I want full gore, not a dumbed down version. But besides that, I'm okay.

Origin is not the problem, it's the spyware included. BF3 comes with such spyware and that was one of the reasons why I never bought it. So if ME3 needs Origin, I'm okay. If I need to install spyware to get ME3 running, I won't install ME3 and the game ends (unsatisfying) with ME2.

That's all I can say for now.

I do have an issue with the "gaming portal" concept.  I don't need a portal, I don't need a download manager, I don't need any of that crap.  Just let me buy the damn game on disk, and if it's something I need to download just give me a damn link and let me download it.  Hell, I'd rather use FTP than a download manager.  They need to stop trying to "help", stop trying to make things "easy", stop trying to hold my hand and look over my shoulder... just get the hell out of the way and let me buy, install, and use their software.  Holy cow. 

This is so true on so many levels. This supposedly "simplification" and "facilitation" of usage is often more of a pain than any kind of relief. It can be applied to so many products such as games(streamlining) and other kinds of software. 

I believe the old saying "don't fix something that isn't broken" really says it all. The system in ME2(put the disk in the drive) works perfectly, there's no need for Origin.       

[Ieldra]

Hmm...I was thinking about protective measures against spyware like Origin. There are firewall programs that let you prevent selected processes from sending anything over the net. Perhaps that's a way to protect yourself after the game has been installed and connected to your account.

[lovgreno]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Hmm...I was thinking about protective measures against spyware like Origin. There are firewall programs that let you prevent selected processes from sending anything over the net. Perhaps that's a way to protect yourself after the game has been installed and connected to your account.

Unless the program is designed to only work while connected and contuniously sending data back and forth.

[Chloe_W1971]

lovgreno wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Hmm...I was thinking about protective measures against spyware like Origin. There are firewall programs that let you prevent selected processes from sending anything over the net. Perhaps that's a way to protect yourself after the game has been installed and connected to your account.

Unless the program is designed to only work while connected and contuniously sending data back and forth.

Shepard: "Oh, great. You just *had* to give them tactical advice."

[Sethan_1]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Hmm...I was thinking about protective measures against spyware like Origin. There are firewall programs that let you prevent selected processes from sending anything over the net. Perhaps that's a way to protect yourself after the game has been installed and connected to your account.

I wouldn't count on that working - for example, if you have your firewall locked down, you'll probably notice an "EA Tunnel" hole punched in it.  Delete it, then go play Mass Effect 2 and look at your firewall again.

[Wittand25]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Hmm...I was thinking about protective measures against spyware like Origin. There are firewall programs that let you prevent selected processes from sending anything over the net. Perhaps that's a way to protect yourself after the game has been installed and connected to your account.

Or you could just use the offline mode from Origin so that it does not send anything.

[Ieldra]

Sethan_1 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Hmm...I was thinking about protective measures against spyware like Origin. There are firewall programs that let you prevent selected processes from sending anything over the net. Perhaps that's a way to protect yourself after the game has been installed and connected to your account.

I wouldn't count on that working - for example, if you have your firewall locked down, you'll probably notice an "EA Tunnel" hole punched in it.  Delete it, then go play Mass Effect 2 and look at your firewall again.

Why, they'd have to manipulate my firewall settings without my knowledge then - for I set it to prevent all net traffic initiated by so far unknown processes. Only those I explicity allow to send can do so. If they're going to circumvent that, Origin will have outed itself as malware.

[Ieldra]

Wittand25 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Hmm...I was thinking about protective measures against spyware like Origin. There are firewall programs that let you prevent selected processes from sending anything over the net. Perhaps that's a way to protect yourself after the game has been installed and connected to your account.

Or you could just use the offline mode from Origin so that it does not send anything.

Would you trust Origin to not send anything? If it has an offline mode, good. Then it won't hurt if I set my firewall to prevent it from sending things.