3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Metalrocks]

even when you can crack origin, i still would not buy ME3. i want to buy my game, install it, and play it without any hassle. jumping through loops to play a game is not my thing either. if things stay like this, i might give up on gaming or just stick with the games which work fine without some program looking over your shoulder.

[Eradyn]

I would have no problem if Origin just did what Steam does, but no more than that, and unfortunately, apparently, it does waaay more than that. I'm so torn right now and I feel like I'm being tossed about in the water here.

[anzolino]

magnetite...
As long as you're not doing anything against the EULA you've got nothing to worry about...

Are you kidding me? The new EULA says: "We are not scanning your data..." They are lying!
There is no game installed and there is no stuff pertains to any game! There are only a few folders which have nothing to do with Origin or EA.

[Metalrocks]

Eradyn wrote...

I would have no problem if Origin just did what Steam does, but no more than that, and unfortunately, apparently, it does waaay more than that. I'm so torn right now and I feel like I'm being tossed about in the water here.

EA is to greedy to give some money to steam so that theire product can be sold. if origin would be like steam (wishful thinking) then it would be useless. because we have already a program were you can play games on and buy games.
EA simply wants money for them self, and from the looks of it, they would try anything to make more money, even when it means sharing personal data to third parties around the world.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

SalsaDMA wrote...

ColorMeSuprised wrote...

MarauderESP wrote...

one of these days ur going to be sleeping and ur pc will start and instead of windows logo (mac,linux,or so ur using) ull see spy.... err.. origin logo and speakers start saying "assuming control" .......... oh damn im gonna have a nightmare tonight

Dammnit. I wanted to give you a comic strip that exactly showed what you described, but I couldn't find it.

Maybe someone else knows which one I'm talking about?

This one, I asume:



It's from an online comic hosted at the escapist.

Not much a fan of the escapist (minus Zero Punctuation which I do so thoroughly enjoy), but I'm pleasantly impressed with this comic lol...

[LilyasAvalon]

So what is the FULL list of what exactly makes Origins so Big Bad Wolf scary? I've only been on the Origins site and my security freaks out whenever I do because it keeps trying to access paypal files or something, so it's kept me from using the actual program, so I don't actually fully know what it is that makes Origins so bad.

Not saying it isn't, just in the dark here.

[Metalrocks]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

So what is the FULL list of what exactly makes Origins so Big Bad Wolf scary? I've only been on the Origins site and my security freaks out whenever I do because it keeps trying to access paypal files or something, so it's kept me from using the actual program, so I don't actually fully know what it is that makes Origins so bad.

Not saying it isn't, just in the dark here.

in short:
it access your personal files on your pc. files which have nothing to do with EA or games. plus, they take the files and give them to third parties around the world without you knowing about it. and EA still claims that it doesnt do such thing. but when you read the agreement, it even sais so that origin is in short, a spyware.
you find tones of stuff on youtube (mainly in german) and read some of the pages here in this forum.

[LilyasAvalon]

Metalrocks wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

So what is the FULL list of what exactly makes Origins so Big Bad Wolf scary? I've only been on the Origins site and my security freaks out whenever I do because it keeps trying to access paypal files or something, so it's kept me from using the actual program, so I don't actually fully know what it is that makes Origins so bad.

Not saying it isn't, just in the dark here.

in short:
it access your personal files on your pc. files which have nothing to do with EA or games. plus, they take the files and give them to third parties around the world without you knowing about it. and EA still claims that it doesnt do such thing. but when you read the agreement, it even sais so that origin is in short, a spyware.
you find tones of stuff on youtube (mainly in german) and read some of the pages here in this forum.

... That's not without you knowing about it then, that's them stating they'll do it and people being idiots and not reading the fine print, so technically, it's: EA  - 1 | Consumers - 0

Still, that IS a breach of privacy, but legally, it sounds like you've agreed to that breach of privacy.

[Lumikki]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Metalrocks wrote...

in short:
it access your personal files on your pc. files which have nothing to do with EA or games. plus, they take the files and give them to third parties around the world without you knowing about it. and EA still claims that it doesnt do such thing. but when you read the agreement, it even sais so that origin is in short, a spyware.
you find tones of stuff on youtube (mainly in german) and read some of the pages here in this forum.

... That's not without you knowing about it then, that's them stating they'll do it and people being idiots and not reading the fine print, so technically, it's: EA  - 1 | Consumers - 0

Still, that IS a breach of privacy, but legally, it sounds like you've agreed to that breach of privacy.

First, it's not legal.

In many countries EULA has no legal base at all, because the way the contracts has been forced to be accepted and product buyed before knowing the contract. It's agaist contract laws, customers has rights to read the contract before buying the product. Also even more countries EULA can't bind contract over laws of these countries. Meaning countries can have laws agaist intrusion of privacy. This means also that consumers doesn't even have to read EULA in some countries, because it doesn't have any legal base or some part of EULA becomes illegal because laws of countries. Example privacy laws.

Second point when consumers buys GAME, many countries says the product has to be what it's expected to be. It's illegal mislead consumers when buying product, when it's not just game, but also spyware. The spyware is not optional choise for players of the game. It's forced without any choise at all. So, even if consumer would know the spyware part after reading EULA, consumer has no other choise than NOT to play to game to avoid spyware, it's bundle product. This means they have buyed game what they can't use, because privacy intrusion. Consumers did not know what's in EULA when the game is buyed, because EULA can't be read before buying. Also bundle two products can also be illegal in some countries, game + spyware. Meaning connecting to different kind of softwares to be one packet. To get one, you also have been forced to take other.


So, it's breach of privacy and illegal one. (Privacy, consumer product related and contract laws)

1. Eula and software is breaking partly laws in some countries and EULA has no legal base in some countries.
2. Product is something else what it's supppose to be, misleading consumers. Making product unusable for consumer who buyed it, because product wasn't just a game, but also something else. Bundle product.
3. Forcing spyware in consumers computer is illegal in many countries, even with EULA telling about it.

Point been, consumer has to have rights to say NO to this illegal bundle spyware product and still able to play the game what consumer has been buying. EA doesn't give that option, that's why it's illegal.

Modifié par Lumikki, 03 novembre 2011 - 07:52 .

[Homebound]

we need to reestablish some boundaries. if only we could ALL agree to boycott every game that comes out until they drop this Origins bs, we might actually get somewhere. Money talks. If EA sees that they'll be bankrupt within the next month for as long as they hold on to this, they WILL drop it.

but no, if gaming boycotts like the L4D2 boycott taught us anything, its that gamers are pushovers. We'll crack from our rampant desire for the shiniest toys, and they know it.

[Wintermist]

Metalrocks wrote...

in short:
it access your personal files on your pc. files which have nothing to do with EA or games. plus, they take the files and give them to third parties around the world without you knowing about it. and EA still claims that it doesnt do such thing. but when you read the agreement, it even sais so that origin is in short, a spyware.
you find tones of stuff on youtube (mainly in german) and read some of the pages here in this forum.

LOL what. Where ahs it ever been said that it downloads the files and hands them on. That is plain ridiculous.

[darth_lopez]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Metalrocks wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

So what is the FULL list of what exactly makes Origins so Big Bad Wolf scary? I've only been on the Origins site and my security freaks out whenever I do because it keeps trying to access paypal files or something, so it's kept me from using the actual program, so I don't actually fully know what it is that makes Origins so bad.

Not saying it isn't, just in the dark here.

in short:
it access your personal files on your pc. files which have nothing to do with EA or games. plus, they take the files and give them to third parties around the world without you knowing about it. and EA still claims that it doesnt do such thing. but when you read the agreement, it even sais so that origin is in short, a spyware.
you find tones of stuff on youtube (mainly in german) and read some of the pages here in this forum.

... That's not without you knowing about it then, that's them stating they'll do it and people being idiots and not reading the fine print, so technically, it's: EA  - 1 | Consumers - 0

Still, that IS a breach of privacy, but legally, it sounds like you've agreed to that breach of privacy.

can someone point me to where in the Origin EULA it says this?  Cause i perussed it and it seemed no different than steams. (except the 2 year limit on game inactivity which is just retarted)

[vader da slayer]

Lumikki wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Metalrocks wrote...

in short:
it access your personal files on your pc. files which have nothing to do with EA or games. plus, they take the files and give them to third parties around the world without you knowing about it. and EA still claims that it doesnt do such thing. but when you read the agreement, it even sais so that origin is in short, a spyware.
you find tones of stuff on youtube (mainly in german) and read some of the pages here in this forum.

... That's not without you knowing about it then, that's them stating they'll do it and people being idiots and not reading the fine print, so technically, it's: EA  - 1 | Consumers - 0

Still, that IS a breach of privacy, but legally, it sounds like you've agreed to that breach of privacy.

First, it's not legal. In many countries EULA has no legal base at all, because the way the contracts has been forced to be accepted and product buyed before knowing the contract. Also even more countries EULA can't bind contract over laws of these countries. Meaning countries can have laws agaist intrusion of privacy. This means also that consumers doesn't even have to read EULA in some countries, because it doesn't have any legal base or some part of EULA becomes illegal because laws of countries. Example privacy laws.

Second point when consumers buys GAME, many countries says the product has to be what it's expected to be. It's illegal mislead consumers when buying product, when it's not just game, but also spyware. The spyware is not optional choise for players of the game. It's forced without any choise at all. So, even if consumer would know the spyware part, comsumer has no other choise than NOT to play to game to avoid spyware. This means they have buyed game what they can't use, because privacy intrusion. Consumers did not know what's in EULA when the game is buyed, because EULA can't be read before buying. Also bundle two products can also be illegal in some countries, game + spyware. Meaning connecting to different kind of softwares to be one packet. To get one, you also have been forced to take other.


So, it's breach of privacy and illegal one.

1. Eula and software is breaking partly laws in some countries and EULA has no legal base in some countries.
2. Product is something else what it's supppose to be, misleading consumers. Making product unusable for consumer who buyed it, because product wasn't just a game, but also something else. Bundle product.
3. Forcing spyware in consumers computer is illegal in many countries, even with EULA telling about it.

Point been, consumer has to have rights to say NO to this illegal spyware (bundle product) and still able to play the game what consumer has been buying. EA doesn't give that option, that's why it's illegal.

the entier point of "isn't legal since it can't be viewd before the product is bought" is null and void since the EULA is attached to Origin which is FREE and can be viewed in its entirety before isntalling it.

also the consumer does have the right to say no and not use the prodcuct, want to use it then you have to say yes. its your decision on which you want to do more. which brings me to my next point in that this is a gaming client and therefore isn't being forced on you at all and wont hold any legal ground anywhere. the only way something of this nature could be used to sue someone is if the program was required from something you have to have. which you don't.

and to reiterate something I said earlier. just because a directory on your machine has nothing directly to do with a game (ie installed by the game) doesn't mean you can't add a sub directory to it that modifies the games files. this isn't that hard to do infact in my courses at school I have a directory of GNU ARM stuff that isn't linked in anyway to a directory in my main folder (thats on a server so I can access it from home as well) but with a simple line that I add to one of the GNU ARM files then type a short maybe 30 character line it ties the two together without the directory in my main folder ever having to have physically seen those files (ie those files were never in that directory and never need be). THIS is what origin is doing scanning your "personal" files. it won't send back info on your personal info but will on stuff that it finds that mods the game and or services. privacy laws don't prevent them from scanning the files just from collecting and transmitting them as scanning those files is protected by their copywrite laws and their corporate rights (right to protect their product and services). it is illegal for them to send back personal info like I said but ok for tem to scan the folder to see if anything in that directory is sending data or is linked back to the game files to modify them or thier services.

its basicly a "you can look but not touch" thing. kinda like looking at an item on a shelf in a store is completely legit but walking out without paying for it isn't.

Modifié par vader da slayer, 03 novembre 2011 - 07:53 .

[Lumikki]

vader da slayer wrote...

the entier point of "isn't legal since it can't be viewd before the product is bought" is null and void since the EULA is attached to Origin which is FREE and can be viewed in its entirety before isntalling it.

Based what countries LAWS? There is many countries where the product is sold and they have different laws.
How can EULA viewed before buying, when you stand inside market store holding the gamebox?
Does it read in gamebox that this is spyware product and also explain what spyware is for customer?

its basicly a "you can look but not touch" thing. kinda like looking at an item on a shelf in a store is completely legit but walking out without paying for it isn't.

Yes, software can look anything in consumers computer, but it can't transfer anything out of consumers computer without legal consent of consumer or it will breaking the laws. Meaning consumer can accept something and it's still not legal, because countries laws. Meaning customer acception does not make illegal contract by laws to legal, it's still illegal because countries laws say so. Contract is not above countries other laws.

Point been, you may have rights to give up you computer privacy as long no counties laws are agaist it. How ever, company can not legaly force customer give up they privacy because customer is wanting to play game. That's forceful illegal action in many countries. Contracts are still bind to respect countries other laws.

So, issue isn't that ME3 would have origin client with the game. Issue is it's forceful use for break of privacy, what can be illegal in many countries.

Modifié par Lumikki, 03 novembre 2011 - 09:04 .

[elitecom]

magnetite wrote...

There's a lot of companies which have this sort of thing. As long as you're not doing anything against the EULA you've got nothing to worry about. I don't think Bioware or EA has the right to root through your personal information. Only stuff that pertains to the game.

They definitely don't have the right to go through your personal information, but they do it anyway, and there lies the problem. The problem becomes so much greater when they force Origin upon you if you want to play ME3.

[Feanor_II]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Still, that IS a breach of privacy, but legally, it sounds like you've agreed to that breach of privacy.

No, no, no, no..... Just because you sign a contract doesn't make Whatever the f**** you signed automatically legal, I see people are very confused about this. Contracts must be subject to certain legal requirements.

Let's put an exagerated example:

If someone signs a contract who reduces him to be a slave that contract is not valid, because slavery isn' legal and the person for whom yo signed it can't claim the signer as his/her property and do whatever he pleases with the signers life.

To sumarize: Contracts are not above legislations and Constitutions.

Modifié par Feanor_II, 03 novembre 2011 - 08:44 .

[Metalrocks]

LilyasAvalon wrote...
Still, that IS a breach of privacy, but legally, it sounds like you've agreed to that breach of privacy.

pretty much what feanor said. going through some once privat stuff is not legal. even when it states in the agreement, you dont have to agree. the problem with this is. that EA forces you that you agree to this just to play the games like BF3.

Modifié par Metalrocks, 03 novembre 2011 - 08:59 .

[CptData]

Metalrocks wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...
Still, that IS a breach of privacy, but legally, it sounds like you've agreed to that breach of privacy.

pretty much what feanor said. going through some once privat stuff is not legal. even when it states in the agreement, you dont have to agree. the problem with this is. that EA forces you that you agree to this just to play the games like BF3.

Exactly. You can't play BF3 or ME3 if you do not accept Origin. Accepting Origin means you agree that this particular software is searching ANY files on your computer.

Actually, I wonder if we can get a EULA-ban. Means - EULA is forbidden and no contract. In that case customers could use lawyers to pin EA (and any other Publisher down) when scanning files. It's bad, but since the Publisher (or Content industry) is out of war, they shall have a war.

[Homebound]

Someone get Epicbattleaxe or Sessler's soapbox on the horn. We aught to get the word out on this.

MAKE SOME NOISE PEOPLE!

Modifié par Hellbound555, 03 novembre 2011 - 10:10 .

[billy the squid]

CptData wrote...

Metalrocks wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...
Still, that IS a breach of privacy, but legally, it sounds like you've agreed to that breach of privacy.

pretty much what feanor said. going through some once privat stuff is not legal. even when it states in the agreement, you dont have to agree. the problem with this is. that EA forces you that you agree to this just to play the games like BF3.

Exactly. You can't play BF3 or ME3 if you do not accept Origin. Accepting Origin means you agree that this particular software is searching ANY files on your computer.

Actually, I wonder if we can get a EULA-ban. Means - EULA is forbidden and no contract. In that case customers could use lawyers to pin EA (and any other Publisher down) when scanning files. It's bad, but since the Publisher (or Content industry) is out of war, they shall have a war.

Let me see if I can remeber off the top of my head, but I don't think you could prevent EA from having a contractual agreement with a consumer, that is the heart of contract law.  It is after all their product, to supply as they will, British case law states that the EULA does not have to be present on the box before the purchase, but the consumer simply has to be aware of existence, not the details.

As such, as it included online or within the manual for retail copies it abides by the case law rulings of the Court of Appeal. The same with contracts of adhesion, which this one is, individual negitiation ofthe contract is not a prerequisite for the contract to be valid, logically it would be insane for every company to negotiiate on an individual basis, hence the standard terms of service for the company on which it deals with customers.

Where the issue arises is that Statute and Case Law trumps Company contracts. The terms of the EULA are void, even if you accepted them, because they breach statute law. What can be done is to try and strike out the offending clauses, but it can not be done in a way to change the intention of the contract, to do so would require the court to reinterpret the agreement on which the inital contract was accepted by the parties, a big no no. In addition certain clauses can be re written, but on a very rare basis and very tightly controlled, the court will not re write the contract for you because it was badly drafted.

Another rather murky area is EA's ability to change the contract whenever they like, given the stipulations for time in the EULA, technically they can as it is their contract, but you accepted to use the product based on the previous contract, not this one. So, the contractual relationship ends, or there is renegotiation, but there won't be as it is a contract of adhesion. So, we are left with accept the contract or you have no license to use the product, it works out better for EA in that case than the consumer.

[Lumikki]

Hellbound555 wrote...

MAKE SOME NOISE PEOPLE!

I'm trying with limits.  I have reported EA to goverment controlled office who is controlling and monitoring the consumer's rights in my country. No sure if they do anything, but at least I'm trying to make some noise.

billy the squid wrote...

So, we are left with accept the contract or you have no license to use the product, it works out better for EA in that case than the consumer.

True, but company can't put in to contract anyting they want, if they contract would break the countries laws. If contract breaks the laws, it will become void as illegal contract.

Companies can not forcefully break they customers privacy just because they want to play games. That's where the laws comes and make's the contract illegal. I think it's called something like "not reasonable contract" in eyes of laws.

Modifié par Lumikki, 03 novembre 2011 - 11:08 .

[billy the squid]

Lumikki wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

So, we are left with accept the contract or you have no license to use the product, it works out better for EA in that case than the consumer.

True, but company can't put in to contract anyting they want, if they contract would break the countries laws. If contract breaks the laws, it will become void as illegal contract.

Companies can not forcefully break they customers privacy just because they want to play games. That's where the laws comes and make's the contract illegal. I think it's called "not reasonable contract" in eyes of laws.

That's why I said, Statute Law and Case Law trumps Contracts, it's a silly little idea that I picked up when I was studying law.  It is only when EA changes the contractual clauses on their own inclination, that we run into problems, you are going to have to accept it or reject it, as negotiation is largely beyond the ability of an individual consumer to force a multinational into a renegotiation.

Obviously, if the contract which is accepted contains clauses which are considered void for uncertainty, breach of statute, case law etc.  Then technically we're back to square one again, EA has to redraft the contract and the consumer has to reject or accept the new stipulations

[Lumikki]

billy the squid wrote...

That's why I said, Statute Law and Case Law trumps Contracts, it's a silly little idea that I picked up when I was studying law.  It is only when EA changes the contractual clauses on their own inclination, that we run into problems, you are going to have to accept it or reject it, as negotiation is largely beyond the ability of an individual consumer to force a multinational into a renegotiation.

Obviously, if the contract which is accepted contains clauses which are considered void for uncertainty, breach of statute, case law etc.  Then technically we're back to square one again, EA has to redraft the contract and the consumer has to reject or accept the new stipulations

Yep. Issue isn't just that contract needs to be change, but also that those who uphold the law would have to do something. That's the issue, they don't do anything ever. They just sits they fat asses and run they fingers. While we customers suffers by it for years to come.

How do you get some big company to change they contract?

Only if some goverment is forcing them  with laws or the issue is become so big in public eyes than company does it by self to save face. Basicly we consumers are ****ed, because we never make enough noise, we never have enough money to go agaist companies and goverment is lazy as hell to do anything at all. No wonder companies can do most the time what ever they want, is it legal or not, because no-one goes agaist them. Even big group of consumers is like "Who cares". When we try to fight for they rights.

Modifié par Lumikki, 03 novembre 2011 - 11:35 .