3140 réponses à ce sujet

[darth_lopez]

So....Just to go over the relevent sections of Origin/EAs stuff and compare to steams stuff...


Origin

Sections 1.C and 2 below describe the data EA may collect and use in the course of providing services and support to you in connection with the Application.

1. License Grant and Terms of Use.
C. License Validation. The Application and an internet connection are required to validate the license for certain products distributed by EA. You acknowledge and agree that the Application can automatically validate license rights for some or all EA products without separate notice to you. This means that in order to use the Application and certain EA products, you must leave the Application installed on your computer. You acknowledge and agree that the Application may use information regarding your computer, hardware, media, software and your use of the Application to validate your license rights and to update the Application.

2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.



EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly. Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it ever use spyware or install spyware on users’ machines. We and agents acting on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to enforce EA’s legal rights.



In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects non-personally identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as communicating with you. The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware. As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise enhancing your user experience.



This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance with EA’s Privacy Policy located at www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts or is inconsistent with the terms of EA’s Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall control.

EA privacy policy
VI. What Happens To The Information EA Collects?

A. How EA Uses Your Information

EA uses your information to fulfill your specific requests, purchase orders and to send you purchase confirmation and other account-related information. In addition, the personal information you provide will allow us to send you messages about things including new products, features, enhancements, special offers, upgrade opportunities, contests and events of interest. You may also later opt out of certain of these communications.

Otherwise, EA uses personal and non-personal information, both individually and combined together, to better understand the behavior and preferences of our customers, to troubleshoot technical problems, to serve static and dynamic advertising, to enforce our Terms of Service, to ensure proper functioning of our products and services as well as to help improve them. In addition, we combine non-personal information with personal information, such as an email address, to administer loyalty programs, tailor our offerings, web pages or game play experience to you.

By use of friend finder tools such as Facebook, Game Center or other third party services in our online products and services including mobile, you acknowledge that use of these friend finder tools will help you find your contacts and will also allow your contacts to associate your EA Account, also known as an Origin Account, (and related gaming entitlements, including games played on PC, mobile and console platforms) with your social networking profile and/or email address. Your resulting friends’ list, which may be accessible across EA social platforms as available, will be subject to this privacy policy. Note that the friends that you choose to include on any EA or Origin friends’ list may be able to find and/or identify you in the context of different EA products and services. Choose your friends carefully.

If you choose to use our referral service to "Tell a Friend" about an EA product or site, we will ask you for your friend’s name and email address. We will send your friend an email on your behalf inviting him or her to visit the site or check out our product. EA stores your friend's name and email for a short period for the sole purpose of sending this email and for redundancy checking, to be sure that your friend does not receive multiple copies of the same email message. We do not keep or use this information for any other purpose.

Your participation in tournaments or other online game events is also conditional upon our collection, use, storage, transmission and public display of statistical data (such as your scores, rankings and achievements) generated through your participation.

B. Will EA Share My Information With Third Parties?

EA will never share your personal information with third parties without your consent. We may, however, share anonymous, non-personal, aggregated and/or public information with third parties. There may be circumstances where you may share information on your own. Please see section XI for more details about your rights to information you share publicly on EA and other third party sites and forums. You may also opt in to allow EA to share your personal information with companies and organizations that provide products or services that we believe may be of interest to you. To opt out of further communications from a marketing partner or sponsor with whom your information has been shared, please contact that partner or sponsor directly.When our third party agents or service providers collect and/or have access any information other than non-personal, anonymous and/or aggregated data, EA requires that they use data consistently with our stated privacy policies and protect the confidentiality of personal information they collect or have access to in the course of their engagement by EA. These third parties are prohibited from using your personal information for any other purpose without your specific consent.
[...]

You will be notified before your personal information is collected by any third party that is not our agent/service provider, so you can make an informed choice as to whether or not to share your information with that party.We may also access and disclose personal information, including personal communications, in connection with report abuse functions in our products and services, to enforce legal rights and comply with the law, or to comply with an order from a government entity or other competent authority, or when we have reason to believe that a disclosure is necessary to address potential or actual injury or interference with our rights, property, operations, users or others who may be harmed or may suffer loss or damage, or when we believe that disclosure is necessary to protect our rights, combat fraud and/or comply with a judicial proceeding, court order, or legal process served on EA. Note that certain publically available information you post and communicate on our and third party sites and services is public information for which you have no expectation of privacy. See Section XI for more details.

XI. Public Information Including User Generated Content, Online Forums, Blogs And Profiles

You may choose to disclose information about yourself in the course of contributing user generated content to EA sites or games or in our online chat rooms, blogs, message boards, user “profiles” for public view or in similar forums on our sites and/or on third party sites. Information that you disclose in any of these forums is public information, and there is no expectation of privacy or confidentiality there.

You should be aware that any personally identifiable information you submit in the course of these public activities can be read, collected, or used by other users of these forums, and could be used to send you unsolicited messages. We are not responsible for the personally identifiable information you choose to make public in any of these forums.

Note also that in the ordinary course of Internet activity, certain information may be sent from your browser to third parties such as advertising networks and analytics companies. EA has no control over the information sent from your browser to those networks or other third parties and recommends that you ensure that your browser settings prevent the disclosure of information you would not like to share.

If you post a video, image or photo on one of our sites for public view you should be aware that these may be viewed, collected, copied and/or used by other users without your consent. We are not responsible for the videos, images or photos that you choose to submit to EA’s site. Please see our Terms of Service at terms.ea.com on this point and for other guidelines about posting content on our websites.

Comparisson to the Steam Privacy Policy

Collection and Use of Information
By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Valve shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.

"Aggregate information" is information that describes the habits, usage patterns, and demographics of users as a group but does not describe or reveal the identity of any particular user.

"Individual information" is information about a user that is presented in a form distinguishable from information relating to other users but not in a form that personally identifies any user or enables the recipient to communicate directly with any user unless agreed to by the user in advance of such communication. This information may be used to improve Valve's products and online sites, for internal marketing studies, or simply to collect demographic information about Valve's users.

Valve may use customer contact information provided by users to send information about Valve, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the users agree to receive such communications. Except in the cases described below, Valve will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the user agrees to such disclosure in advance. "Personally identifiable information" consists of a user's name, email address, physical address, or other data about the user that enables the recipient to personally identify the user. While Valve collects personally identifiable information on a voluntary basis, for certain products and online sites, Valve's collection of personally identifiable information may be a requirement for access to the product or site. Personally identifiable information will be processed and stored by Valve in databases situated in the United States. Valve may allow third parties performing services under contract with Valve to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this privacy policy. In some situations, personally identifiable information you input in connection with Steam may be made available to other users of Steam. For example, during registration of Steam, Valve collects a user's email address and nickname, and at the user's option, first and last name. Some of this information is searchable and available to other users within Steam. Valve has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that a user makes available to other users via Steam or other Valve software, such as in multiplayer or other public functions.

Personally identifiable information protected under this privacy policy and collected from users may be done in conjunction with associates under agreement with Valve. If an associate of Valve is collecting such personally identifiable information within one of our products or online sites, Valve will make users aware of this at the time the information is gathered. For example, product registration data for Half-Life is collected by Sierra Entertainment. If a user does not want to provide this information, the user may choose to opt out of providing this information. Additionally, if providing the information is a requirement of usage, the user may decline to use that particular service or product. When possible, Valve will make a reasonable effort to direct users to the privacy polices of these associates. Valve's privacy policy does not extend to associates of Valve.

Furthermore, external websites and companies with links to and from Valve's online sites and products may collect personal information about users. Valve's privacy policy does not extend to these external websites and companies. Please refer directly to these companies and websites regarding their privacy policies.

Valve may release personally identifiable information to comply with court orders or laws that require us to disclose such information

THey aren't that different, i'm having a difficult time seeing how origins is anyworse than steam? THey all have the same restrictions for use. They both collect essetnially the same information. And they use them in essentially the same way.... I don't get the problem.

Modifié par darth_lopez, 03 novembre 2011 - 09:44 .

[MarauderESP]

u know they change that 2 or 3 days ago ? still the program is searching folders that have nothing to do with ea or origin

[DownyTif]

^^ Won't quote, since huge post. But it's simple:
- Origin scans your HDD without letting you say NO. It scans everything it finds in AppData.
- Steam checks registry for "Installed" programs you want to add a non-Steam game. It's scans /Steam and /Nvidia. It offers you surveys you can refuse.

I don't care about the EULA, I care about what is really going on behind my back.

[Mykel54]

Search for the word "software" in Origin EULA, and then do the same in Steam one. Basically Origin has the license to look up anything it wants on your computer, meanwhile Steam also scan your PC but only in the parts relevant to the functioning of the program. Origins´s EULA says "software", as it is a vague term and allow the program to scan anything on the PC, because everything on a PC is "software".

Modifié par Mykel54, 03 novembre 2011 - 06:28 .

[darth_lopez]

Even then the privacy policies use the information collect in essentially the same way Problem is then? EA needs to modify origin (which had an update yesterday or so) Furthermore if you only open origin to play the game What allows them to do that?  the program must be running for it to scan doesn't it? So shut it down when you're done problem solved. I'll admit i'm a bit of a noob when it comes to the more advanced computer stuff but this is my primary system and frankyl i've never seen a program run with out permission unless it was a Microsoft one (in which case it doesn't really matter cause it's probably part of the OS)

Personally i keep origin shut down unless i'm using it, i hate the program but ME3 will likely use it cause it's EA and well...the internet rage isn't gonna stop it anytime soon unfortunately. Steam will always be better though(and will always be running on my computers)

Edit: Not sure if you're aware of this but Punkbuster does the same thing, it's also always running on my rig as i've just now noticed, What's next gonna boycott all games using PB? (aka at least 60% of shooters in existence.)

Modifié par darth_lopez, 03 novembre 2011 - 06:38 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Modify? No.

Eliminate. EA needs to eliminate Origin.

[darth_lopez]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Modify? No.

Eliminate. EA needs to eliminate Origin.

well that would be preferable but it's not gonna happen now is it?

[DownyTif]

darth_lopez wrote...

Even then the privacy policies use the information collect in essentially the same way Problem is then? EA needs to modify origin (which had an update yesterday or so) Furthermore if you only open origin to play the game What allows them to do that?  the program must be running for it to scan doesn't it? So shut it down when you're done problem solved. I'll admit i'm a bit of a noob when it comes to the more advanced computer stuff but this is my primary system and frankyl i've never seen a program run with out permission unless it was a Microsoft one (in which case it doesn't really matter cause it's probably part of the OS)

Personally i keep origin shut down unless i'm using it, i hate the program but ME3 will likely use it cause it's EA and well...the internet rage isn't gonna stop it anytime soon unfortunately. Steam will always be better though(and will always be running on my computers)

Edit: Not sure if you're aware of this but Punkbuster does the same thing, it's also always running on my rig as i've just now noticed, What's next gonna boycott all games using PB? (aka at least 60% of shooters in existence.)

There are videos out on the net showing that Origin starts scanning your HDD even before you are presented the EULA (so you didn't accept it at that point). Yes it will only scan while opened. The problem is not that, it's that it actually scans my personal data. EA has no f___king business in my personal stuff. Even if they find nothing or even if my PC would have ONLY Origin installed, I'm against the principle. Now, if Origin was stand-alone and a "nice to have" for gaming, then users could choose to install it or not (but should be presented the truth before). But no, Origin is forced on people wanting to play BF3. And may be on ME3.

- Buying the game at retail store in march: Yay!!!
- Installing the game on my PC: yay!!!
- Required to install Origin: hum... nope I don't want that, I want to play ME3, the game I just bought...
- Refusing to install Origin.
- Kicked out from the installation. Can't play ME3. Can't return it because box opened...

Yep, it really sounds that stupid.

Modifié par DownyTif, 03 novembre 2011 - 06:54 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

darth_lopez wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Modify? No.

Eliminate. EA needs to eliminate Origin.
 

well that would be preferable but it's not gonna happen now is it?

Depends on the customer response. 

[Shepard the Leper]

billy the squid wrote...

Perhaps I was being unclear on the meaning of binding. The EULA is part of the existing contract when one purchased the game, the above criteria should have been fulfilled upon purchase, that is legal, the actual terms of the contract may or may not be enforcable: Ie: Is the EULA in breach of Statute or Case Law, but the actual existence of the contract allows for legal recourse for breach of contract, Unfair contract terms Act, Breach of Data Protection Act etc.

A contract is a contract, but it can only become legally binding in a court of law. When someone goes out and kills somebody, they are murderers yet, legally, they remain innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. That's how the system works and it's why neither EA or someone who violates the EULA has done anything 'wrong' - they only have to deal with the consequences of their actions when a court of law decides they have been doing something illegal.

This is the card EA's playing with Origin. They know they don't have much of a case (in a court of law), but the vast majority of customers are completely ignorant, so (EA believes) it's not going to hurt sales significantly (plus the average Joe lacks the resources to challenge them in court). The added revenue gained through data-mining is considered more profitable than losing a few customers. When EA (after a long and exhausting trial) is finally forced to change their system, they've already made a fortune and happily pay the relatively small fine.

For EA it's just business and they don't care about breaking the law when knowing they will get away with it, or because the consequences are relatively mild. In a crude sense they're like common criminals - are the profits worth the risk? It's despicable, but who hasn't cheated with taxes when knowing you're not likely going to get caught
EA only does it on a much larger scale, which isn't something spectacular among the the big companies anyway. It's still pretty bad though

Modifié par Shepard the Leper, 03 novembre 2011 - 08:14 .

[darth_lopez]

DownyTif wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...


Edit: Not sure if you're aware of this but Punkbuster does the same thing, it's also always running on my rig as i've just now noticed, What's next gonna boycott all games using PB? (aka at least 60% of shooters in existence.)

There are videos out on the net showing that Origin starts scanning your HDD even before you are presented the EULA (so you didn't accept it at that point). Yes it will only scan while opened. The problem is not that, it's that it actually scans my personal data. EA has no f___king business in my personal stuff. Even if they find nothing or even if my PC would have ONLY Origin installed, I'm against the principle. Now, if Origin was stand-alone and a "nice to have" for gaming, then users could choose to install it or not (but should be presented the truth before). But no, Origin is forced on people wanting to play BF3. And may be on ME3.

- Buying the game at retail store in march: Yay!!!
- Installing the game on my PC: yay!!!
- Required to install Origin: hum... nope I don't want that, I want to play ME3, the game I just bought...
- Refusing to install Origin.
- Kicked out from the installation. Can't play ME3. Can't return it because box opened...

Yep, it really sounds that stupid.

I'll take this as you plan on not playing the at least 60% of shooters that also use PB, not entirely sure how vac works but PB scans you're whole computer from my understanding personal fiiles to desktop searching for stuff that might be hacks to the game. I believe it's even cabable of taking screenshots at random if it so feels the need. or so this was the popular rumor back when i played COD 4 I never read the PB EULA i simply trusted that they weren't going to do anything malicious with my s__t cause it was packaged with the game.

The point of this story is to cut back around to It's not being used miliciously and they aren't going to use any information they have against you unless you're violating their ToS(which does not have dictate how you use your computer) You have private stuff on your hardrive you don't want folks seeing at all?
solution: Buy an external one and store your stolen nuclear access codes there, if you're really that paranoid about it.(joke of course but communicates the point)
The next step is Stop using the internet (tracker cookies everywhere my god), Don't use IE, Firefox, Safari, Stop using apple products, Don't link your smartphone to your computer, Don't use Wi-Fi, Don't use Internet Security programs like Avast, Kasperskies etc... More importantly stop visiting this site as the policy is potentially vague enough it might extend here to a degree(as you log in with your origin account). Don't play Masseffect 2 DA:O Awakenings or DA 2, Turn in your Copy of BFBC2, and essentially every other recent Video Game Released by Ubisoft, and EA. Switch to that brilliant "Xbiggitybox 780" when it releases.

The point being the longer you come into contact with the Internet, EA, and essentially any other program you may store on your computer that scans anything in your computer the more likely the chances are someone is going to get access to your private files in some way. Hell 90% of the apps i find for my phone monitor **** on my phone. Apple Monitors your **** to some degree too and Sneaks in extra programs that Bonjour(which i still have no idea wtf it's doing) Don't buy your games from Gamestop anymore at that Because guess what? They have impulse Which is essentially less ghetto origin and in a couple of years will likely be required to play PC games from Gamestop.

Furthermore EA states it won't distriubute your crap with out permission if i remember correctly (particularly personally identifiable stuff, excluding of course directory information which no one gives 2 ****s about anyway) IF they say they won't and are askign you to enter a legally binding contract why would they violate their end so that you can sue them once you've found out about the Breach? Your information would likely be safe.

i'm not saying that origin is the best sytem out there, hell no again i
hate the ****ing thing, its slow as balls ****ty and i think it works
via hamster power on the other end. DId i mention it looks like Ghetto
steam combined with Impulse?  it's like idk some mutant freakmonkey that
should probably be put down..But we know it's not going to be and ultimately we're going to have to deal with it. It's the same **** Valve did when they initially released Steam I'm sure this same problem occured some how. And I'm also sure Steam sales will drive origin into the Ground because Steam Actually Works, and doesn't have a stupid 2 year limitation on inactivity(really i'd think this is where people would complain more ex: i buy a product but if i don't use it for 2 years they can take it away? I wasn't aware that if my Hair dryer or TV sits unused for 2 years Companies should have the right to Reposses My **** i paid money for). And i'm not condoning origins failures as a decent program simply stating obvious ways around it. Then there are other alternatives, as some have suggested, that would allow you to work around origin alltogether.

Luckily it's not Uplay which is an abomination and afront to * insert whatever god would be responsible for PC gaming in a polytheistic or monotheisitic relgion*.  And at least they aren't lying to us like Ubisoft did with the steam copies of "From Dust" For those of us who don't follow ubisoft knews Ubisoft initially stated PC launch of From Dust would not have Uplay, LIES they did have Uplay and the company admitted to their "mistake" after tryign to cover the fact they lied about it by deleting techincal assitance queries regarding inability to play offline or seomthing like that. At least EA can openly say "Hey we're gonna scan your junk so that we can make sure you aren't doign illegal stuff with our products and we're gonna store info on your stuff, not your actual stuff, in our servers where we likely won't touch it less you do something illegal with our stuff. Is that cool with you?" Which is not anymore illegal in teh US nor is it anymore illegal or immoral than steam being required to play TF2, Shogun Total War, Deus Ex:HR, Space Marine, Empire Total War, DOW 2 Retribution etc...., or Windows Live on S8:P, S8, GTA4, DOW2, DOW 2 CR, Red Faction Guerrilla etc.... OR Uplay on Ubisofts ****.

If it were illegal (for those complaining about illegality not specifically downy just in general) DO you think Valve, Ubisoft, Microsoft, and of course EA could get away with it when it's been happening for at least 8 years now consistently? Especially with very public discussions about the questionability of their system

Modifié par darth_lopez, 03 novembre 2011 - 09:26 .

[ColorMeSuprised]

Text on the picture:

Dear trading partners,

in the last few days, you have certainly noticed the discussion about the alleged manufacturing defects and the perceived inflammations of our air conditioning system, which is used in our vehicles.

We regret the bewilderment, which perhaps had occured on your and our end consumer's part and at this point, I want to plausibly assure, that the car on this picture does not burn. The air conditioning system changes merely excess heat of the car interior with the cooler ambient air.

Modifié par ColorMeSuprised, 03 novembre 2011 - 09:23 .

[darth_lopez]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Modify? No.

Eliminate. EA needs to eliminate Origin.
 

well that would be preferable but it's not gonna happen now is it?

Depends on the customer response. 

Yes, cause ubisoft comopletely erradicated Uplay(they didn't thsi is sarcasm though they have been retroactively taking it away in a few cases), good call you certaintly know your VIdeo Game Current Events

[ColorMeSuprised]

darth_lopez wrote...
If it were illegal (for those complaining about illegality not specifically downy just in general) DO you think Valve, Ubisoft, Microsoft, and of course EA could get away with it when it's been happening for at least 8 years now consistently?

I'm not going to talk about differences between the afformentioned publishers. And I don't know about other countries, but at least in Germany many lawyers had an eye on these "legal" EULAs. But they were mostly ignored. I'm glad that FINALLY some people take notice of what's going on and that neither Steam/Valve nor Origin/EA or whoever have the right to just dig around on our harddrive.

Period.

[darth_lopez]

ColorMeSuprised wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...
If it were illegal (for those complaining about illegality not specifically downy just in general) DO you think Valve, Ubisoft, Microsoft, and of course EA could get away with it when it's been happening for at least 8 years now consistently?

I'm not going to talk about differences between the afformentioned publishers. And I don't know about other countries, but at least in Germany many lawyers had an eye on these "legal" EULAs. But they were mostly ignored. I'm glad that FINALLY some people take notice of what's going on and that neither Steam/Valve nor Origin/EA or whoever have the right to just dig around on our harddrive.

Period.

it would be nice if they didn't have that ability(i'm certaintly not saying otherwise) and if a legal movement actually sprouted up to stop Intrusions like this from happening on computers, phones, and technolgoy in general I would certaintly support it. But this is not Unique to EA and it's not Unique to PC and simply attacking Origin for it when many other programs do the same thing but are some how less abhored for it is simply being reblious for the sake of rebelion against a publish folks blame for teh death of many good games(and probably rightly so)

How are Privacy laws in germany? 

edit:PS liked the picture it was quite funny

Modifié par darth_lopez, 03 novembre 2011 - 09:35 .

[Medhia Nox]

If they're going to dig around in my harddrive - I hope they at least take advantage of the copious amounts of porn.

Oh, and don't steal all my prize winning intellectual properties Bioware... cause, I'm going to be so epically popular it hurts... and I don't want to find out you stole my brain candy.

Lastly Bioware - I hope you take note of all the other developers and games I play - cause you could learn a great deal from them (and, admittedly, they from you) - and, especially take note that all your future products will not be first day purchases until I am satisfied that DA 2 was just a fluke and not your intended design plan.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 03 novembre 2011 - 09:37 .

[DownyTif]

@darth_lopez
I won't quote you, too big hehe. There is indeed a lot of sense in what you are saying. A side note for Impulse: I've been a user of Impulse in the past when it was owned by Stardock, but since the sell, I've not used it. And I'm not bound to GameStop... I buy where it's cheaper. If I require Impulse to play a GameStop game, well they will loose a potential customer in me.

I didn't know that about PB and to be honest, the only game it came with is CoD4. I don't play online except for CoD4. But I'll look into it, since I don't like the scanning fact.

For other softwares, you usually know it's gonna scan. When you install an antivirus to scan your computer, well, you know it will do it.

I should clarify, because I haven't really said it in other posts, that I'm not against the fact that Origin scans files. I'm against the fact that it scans everywhere where it doesn't belong and that you can't stop it unless you close the application, which result in closing the game you want to play. For a game like ME3, when you only want to play SP, why would I need Origin to scan my HDD to be sure I'm not cheating? Why would Origin need my personal info for that? Why would I need Origin?????????

And also, why Steam is capable of giving a great user experience, without scanning you personal files?

Modifié par DownyTif, 03 novembre 2011 - 10:02 .

[SalsaDMA]

darth_lopez wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Modify? No.

Eliminate. EA needs to eliminate Origin.
 

well that would be preferable but it's not gonna happen now is it?

Depends on the customer response. 

Yes, cause ubisoft comopletely erradicated Uplay(they didn't thsi is sarcasm though they have been retroactively taking it away in a few cases), good call you certaintly know your VIdeo Game Current Events

If PC sales suddenly crashed for EA and Origin was shown to be the cause? You could bet your rear that they would need to take drastic steps. Investors would have their backs flogged if they didn't act on it.

[SalsaDMA]

ColorMeSuprised wrote...

Text on the picture:

Dear trading partners,

in the last few days, you have certainly noticed the discussion about the alleged manufacturing defects and the perceived inflammations of our air conditioning system, which is used in our vehicles.

We regret the bewilderment, which perhaps had occured on your and our end consumer's part and at this point, I want to plausibly assure, that the car on this picture does not burn. The air conditioning system changes merely excess heat of the car interior with the cooler ambient air.

awesome picture

[billy the squid]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Perhaps I was being unclear on the meaning of binding. The EULA is part of the existing contract when one purchased the game, the above criteria should have been fulfilled upon purchase, that is legal, the actual terms of the contract may or may not be enforcable: Ie: Is the EULA in breach of Statute or Case Law, but the actual existence of the contract allows for legal recourse for breach of contract, Unfair contract terms Act, Breach of Data Protection Act etc.

A contract is a contract, but it can only become legally binding in a court of law. When someone goes out and kills somebody, they are murderers yet, legally, they remain innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. That's how the system works and it's why neither EA or someone who violates the EULA has done anything 'wrong' - they only have to deal with the consequences of their actions when a court of law decides they have been doing something illegal.

This is the card EA's playing with Origin. They know they don't have much of a case (in a court of law), but the vast majority of customers are completely ignorant, so (EA believes) it's not going to hurt sales significantly (plus the average Joe lacks the resources to challenge them in court). The added revenue gained through data-mining is considered more profitable than losing a few customers. When EA (after a long and exhausting trial) is finally forced to change their system, they've already made a fortune and happily pay the relatively small fine.

For EA it's just business and they don't care about breaking the law when knowing they will get away with it, or because the consequences are relatively mild. In a crude sense they're like common criminals - are the profits worth the risk? It's despicable, but who hasn't cheated with taxes when knowing you're not likely going to get caught
EA only does it on a much larger scale, which isn't something spectacular among the the big companies anyway. It's still pretty bad though

The criminal analogy presents the problem that, the purpetrator has not admited he performed the Act in the same terms as one would in terms of contractual law, where both parties have entered willingly into a contract at a fundamental level through the purchase and consideration passing hands, the arguement is only in terms of whether the EULA's terms are enforceable.

For instance, if the defendant in a criminal case where to be arrested and sufficient evidence brought against him/her that it is patently obvious that the defendant commited the act, then it is a matter of murder or manslaughter. Ie: premeditation or gross negligence/ lack of intent to kill.

The differentiation in substance is similar to the EULA, the very fundamentals of contract law Offer, Intention to create a Legal Relationship between parties, Acceptance and Consideration are required to create a contract which licenses the licensee to use the product in exchange for money or money's worth. That is considered the legal basis as it is based on previous case law, and there is mountains of it. It would be monumentally tedious if every court action required the establishment of these fundamental principles of contractual law to determine if a contract was legally entered into or not. Whch is why vast majority of hearings tend to skip them, as the implication is that the contract was legally entered into and binds the parties together in terms of licensor and licensee etc.

Unless one party specifically questions the legality of the contract at a basic level, the terms and conditions are almost always the cause of friction and the hearing. That is when the court questions why one accepted the contract in the first place, infact courts in England get very upity about accepting contracts which you know fail as legal contracts or have no intention of abiding by: Ie: Intending to create a legal relationship between both the parties.

In short, the a contract is considered binding by the court and most entities, before it even reaches the court level, that is how the world functions, the assumption is that the contract has been legally entered into, and parties proceed on that basis. If there was no premise for contracts being legal at their inception the industries would come to a screeching halt. Courts only become involved in disputes which cannot be reconciled, many parties settle before the spectre of court even arises, yet the contract is still considered to bind both of them and third party entities still vew it as legally binding, even without court judgement.

Parties do not go to court happily, it costs a lot of money and the court is likely to slap you with a wasted costs bill against the firm, for wasting its time and the other parties, really nasty. Paticularly if the main argument one puts forward is that a contract is not legal at the fundamental level until judgement is rendered by a court. I would not like to be representing the claimant if that is what they were pushing for as a basis for the case.

The dispute of over terms does not change the legality of the contract, it is increadibly rare that there will be a dispute of a contract's legality. A contract which abides by the stipulated case law, will always be considered legal in that it binds both parties, only in extreame circumstances will a court consider the legality of a contract.

However, the terms and conditions of the contract can be rendered void even if the contract has been legally entered into and binds both people/entities as parties to the contract. Through use of severability and limited re writting a court can settle disputes over terms yet leave the parties legally bound. Generally contracts are considered legal, without courts rendering judgement, the disputes largely arise over the enforcablity of the terms, which if so uncertain or breach statute and case law at a central level render the whole contract void.

Modifié par billy the squid, 03 novembre 2011 - 11:12 .

[ColorMeSuprised]

darth_lopez wrote...

it would be nice if they didn't have that ability(i'm certaintly not saying otherwise) and if a legal movement actually sprouted up to stop Intrusions like this from happening on computers, phones, and technolgoy in general I would certaintly support it. But this is not Unique to EA and it's not Unique to PC and simply attacking Origin for it when many other programs do the same thing but are some how less abhored for it is simply being reblious for the sake of rebelion against a publish folks blame for teh death of many good games(and probably rightly so)

How are Privacy laws in germany? 

edit:PS liked the picture it was quite funny

I understand what you are talking about. It's actually sad that it has gone so far with out much protest and suddenly it hits EA with full force, but you have to admit that EAs try was quite shameless.

I'm against Steam and I'm against permanent internet connection - actually, I'm against internet on my gaming pc and these programms/publisher FORCE me to use a internet connection i do not WANT to use. Two years age I didn't even HAVE internet and I couldn't play any game that needed a connection. And I'm sad that it goes further in this kind of direction.

Privacy laws in Germany are really strict and most people take these laws serious. If you want to break them, you have to be prepared for an onslaught. But only if it concerns more than just "one" community (in this case gamers).

Modifié par ColorMeSuprised, 03 novembre 2011 - 11:56 .

[Feixeno]

I really hope Mass Effect 3 is on steam.

[shep82]

Feixeno wrote...

I really hope Mass Effect 3 is on steam.

It won't be. I still am not going to cancel even if Bioware confirms Origin for ME3.

[Zanallen]

I hope ME3 is an Origin exclusive and, on top of the purchasing price, you have to mail your PC to EA to have them install the game for you.

[Gatt9]

darth_lopez wrote...

Even then the privacy policies use the information collect in essentially the same way Problem is then? EA needs to modify origin (which had an update yesterday or so) Furthermore if you only open origin to play the game What allows them to do that?  the program must be running for it to scan doesn't it? So shut it down when you're done problem solved. I'll admit i'm a bit of a noob when it comes to the more advanced computer stuff but this is my primary system and frankyl i've never seen a program run with out permission unless it was a Microsoft one (in which case it doesn't really matter cause it's probably part of the OS)

Personally i keep origin shut down unless i'm using it, i hate the program but ME3 will likely use it cause it's EA and well...the internet rage isn't gonna stop it anytime soon unfortunately. Steam will always be better though(and will always be running on my computers)

Edit: Not sure if you're aware of this but Punkbuster does the same thing, it's also always running on my rig as i've just now noticed, What's next gonna boycott all games using PB? (aka at least 60% of shooters in existence.)

Here's the thing.  EA reserves the right to collect data on you and your computer,  EA reserves the right to sue you for anything found on there,  but EA bars you from sueing them for searching your computer.

Further,  we still have the original problem,  EA's scanning every file.  What happens when that data gets breached,  and remember,  Lulzsec hacked them maybe 6 months ago.  Remember,  we're talking about a program that'll scan tax files and everything else.

As far as punkbuster goes,  I don't play multiplayer games.  It means nothing to me.  It's not scanning anything of mine.  But every EA game will scan everything on my computer.  Also,  IIRC,  Punkbuster only scans what's present in RAM at the time,  not the harddrive.

For EA it's just business and they don't care about breaking the law when knowing they will get away with it, or because the consequences are relatively mild. In a crude sense they're like common criminals - are the profits worth the risk? It's despicable, but who hasn't cheated with taxes when knowing you're not likely going to get caught
EA only does it on a much larger scale, which isn't something spectacular among the the big companies anyway. It's still pretty bad though

It's not a small fine when you're scanning files protected by federal law,  TBH,  it's likely a felony.

@billy the squid

The difference here is,  prove it was me who agreed to the terms.  Prove that the person who agreed wasn't under 18.  That makes this a whole different case from anything prior,  where two parties exchange goods under clearly mutually agreed on terms with full knowledge that both parties were legally able to enter into the agreement.

EA can't prove that.  EA can't prove who signed the contract.  EA can't even prove who played the game.  EA can't prove that the party who agreed was legally able to do so,  nor can EA claim that the parties should have known,  since there's no precedence for a video game scanning your tax files and your phone files.  EA can't prove anything.

Previously,  EA's fallback was Copyright law,  even though they couldn't prove you agreed to the EULA,  they could prove that you violated Copyright law.  They can't do that now,  there's nothing that gives them the fallback right to scan your tax files.

@the people saying "Look at everyone else doing it!",  please google the topic.  You'll find companies who've tried scanning things they didn't need to be scanning,  without stating their intent very clearly upfront,  have received fines every time.

EA's in that area now.  The word "Software" doesn't mean your tax return,  or your phone files to anyone but someone working in the field.