3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Feanor_II]

Mandatory Origin installation? Well, it's sad to say this but bye-bye Bioware, it was nice while it lasted.

[anzolino]

billy the squid wrote...
The problem is not that Origin can look at internet history, identify hardware set up or software installed on the machine, I certainly don't like it as a privacy issue, but as far as things go it's not awful, a friend has taken a look at Origin, he's far more tech savy than I am, but it was unclear what the program was actually up to, which is the main point, it hasn't been explained particularly well by EA.

I won't go into huge detail a clutter everything up, but appart from accessing EA and sytem related items, it also accessed all folders and I think a lot of files from the Program Datafolder

Origin also opened Xfire.ini as well as xfire_games.ini

File and registry logs showed that Origin did not access any values containing the word "browser", "Internet Explorer", "Steam", "Valve" or "Firefox" (my default browser) except for a couple of registry entries that indicated the default browser for the system. It also queried the registry entries Internet ExplorerSecuritySafety Warning Level and Internet ExplorerSecurity which seem to indicate what security level IE is running on.

There was also apparant communication with the EA servers with encrypted information sent to EA, but I don't know what it was. In addition the memory utilized increased to 2GB, which he was shocked by.

From a legal stand point the terms are very broad and largely undefined, which makes me apprehensive, my issues with Origin have always been the privacy and the vague way things have been presented. But, from a tech stand point it appears to be less excessive, than initally thought.

But I still have lingering questions and suspicions as to, why it attempts to scan all programdata folders, the huge memory utilisation, encrypted data sent to EA etc. I don't mind EA setting up their own digital distribution system, I rather it wasn't an artificially created market, but explaining what the Origin's system actually does has been badly handled, and they could have done themselves a favour by explaining clearly what Origins actually does.

billy, thanks for the short overview. Which game is it? Do you have an Opt-out button?

These aren't some ugly activities. No, no, just a little spying through registry and all folders - not related to the game - and sending unknown encrypted data to somewhere. But no panic, we can trust they really care about our data. We don't know the data but in EA we trust!

If I read "it also accessed all folders" then I translate "software, software usage" exactly in the way as before and billys description confirmed it as the right way. My folders are not relating to ME3! My program folder has nothing to do to ME3. This is my privacy and not EA business and not ME3 business!

So why do they do this? For what?
"...explaining clearly what Origins actually does." Yes, they could explain this!

Modifié par anzolino, 13 octobre 2011 - 09:35 .

[Nameterror]

While I am writing this I am looking at my shelf where you can find 15 boxes with Bioware games. I actually bought, with the exception of Shattered Steel and DA 2, every single PC game Bioware ever released. If available I bought the more expensive Collectors Edition and for some of the games I bought even two or more copies as a gift or as replacement for broken CDs/DVDs.

But that was in the old days, when people used to pay for their games with money and not with their privacy. And when games used to come without the necessity to be online all the time, without DRM that only hinders the paying customer and not the pirate, and without shady spyware.

As I take it this is not Biowares fault, since EA bought them and surely forces their terms on BW.
But I simply refuse to buy games that come with terms like these. And I surely will not accept EULAs that force me to ask "How deep?" when EA wants me to bend over.
I will also not accept new terms like the menaced blocking of complete accounts for cheating. I hate cheaters as much as most people do, but blocking an account with games maybe hundrets of bucks worth is not acceptable as well. How sure can I ever be, that EA miracle software does not mistakenly think I am a cheater? And we all can make a good guess how my changes to get my account would be.

EA can do whatever it wants, but as long as Origin is an issue... I will not buy one single BW or EA game anymore. I hated to cancel my ME 3 preorder (*sigh*), but for me Origin is not acceptable.

[tishyw]

So, no new information then?

[shepskisaac]

tishyw wrote...

So, no new information then?

Well, there's this:

Q: Any ETA on the FAQ? I've heard a lot of bad stuff about Origin lately and would appreciate some info.

A: I'm still writing it - And following up with some folks. I want to be TOTALLY accurate.

twitter.com/#!/gtez/status/124620048018051072

Which sounds just

[20thCenturyGhost]

billy the squid wrote...

The problem is not that Origin can look at internet history, identify hardware set up or software installed on the machine, I certainly don't like it as a privacy issue, but as far as things go it's not awful, a friend has taken a look at Origin, he's far more tech savy than I am, but it was unclear what the program was actually up to, which is the main point, it hasn't been explained particularly well by EA.

I won't go into huge detail a clutter everything up, but appart from accessing EA and sytem related items, it also accessed all folders and I think a lot of files from the Program Datafolder

Origin also opened Xfire.ini as well as xfire_games.ini

File and registry logs showed that Origin did not access any values containing the word "browser", "Internet Explorer", "Steam", "Valve" or "Firefox" (my default browser) except for a couple of registry entries that indicated the default browser for the system. It also queried the registry entries Internet ExplorerSecuritySafety Warning Level and Internet ExplorerSecurity which seem to indicate what security level IE is running on.

There was also apparant communication with the EA servers with encrypted information sent to EA, but I don't know what it was. In addition the memory utilized increased to 2GB, which he was shocked by.

From a legal stand point the terms are very broad and largely undefined, which makes me apprehensive, my issues with Origin have always been the privacy and the vague way things have been presented. But, from a tech stand point it appears to be less excessive, than initally thought.

But I still have lingering questions and suspicions as to, why it attempts to scan all programdata folders, the huge memory utilisation, encrypted data sent to EA etc. I don't mind EA setting up their own digital distribution system, I rather it wasn't an artificially created market, but explaining what the Origin's system actually does has been badly handled, and they could have done themselves a favour by explaining clearly what Origins actually does.

Could you forward me more information in a PM? I had a meeting today, completely unrelated to the topic at hand, with the staff of my local congressional representative, and the topic of obtrusive DRM/spyware came up parenthetically as two staffers related recent issues that arose on their computers from DRM/Spyware. They seem very interested in this issue now, as a possible target for legislation.

It's not up to me, but, if it can be independently verified that Origin is using the amount of resources and searching the folders and registry as you suggest, Bio/EA may fiind themselves testifying before a congressional committee in the near future.

[Johnsen1972]

billy the squid wrote...

The problem is not that Origin can look at internet history, identify hardware set up or software installed on the machine, I certainly don't like it as a privacy issue, but as far as things go it's not awful, a friend has taken a look at Origin, he's far more tech savy than I am, but it was unclear what the program was actually up to, which is the main point, it hasn't been explained particularly well by EA.

I won't go into huge detail a clutter everything up, but appart from accessing EA and sytem related items, it also accessed all folders and I think a lot of files from the Program Datafolder

Origin also opened Xfire.ini as well as xfire_games.ini

File and registry logs showed that Origin did not access any values containing the word "browser", "Internet Explorer", "Steam", "Valve" or "Firefox" (my default browser) except for a couple of registry entries that indicated the default browser for the system. It also queried the registry entries Internet ExplorerSecuritySafety Warning Level and Internet ExplorerSecurity which seem to indicate what security level IE is running on.

There was also apparant communication with the EA servers with encrypted information sent to EA, but I don't know what it was. In addition the memory utilized increased to 2GB, which he was shocked by.

From a legal stand point the terms are very broad and largely undefined, which makes me apprehensive, my issues with Origin have always been the privacy and the vague way things have been presented. But, from a tech stand point it appears to be less excessive, than initally thought.

But I still have lingering questions and suspicions as to, why it attempts to scan all programdata folders, the huge memory utilisation, encrypted data sent to EA etc. I don't mind EA setting up their own digital distribution system, I rather it wasn't an artificially created market, but explaining what the Origin's system actually does has been badly handled, and they could have done themselves a favour by explaining clearly what Origins actually does.

Thx for the posting this.
I wonder when Microsoft Security Essentials will detect that spyware. I sent the .exe to Microsoft for closer analysis.<_<

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 14 octobre 2011 - 07:16 .

[N172]

@billy the squid: Thanks for the information, preorder cancelled - at least until we get new information or a possiblity to prevent any possible non-tolerable privacy violations

Modifié par N172, 14 octobre 2011 - 03:28 .

[Robhuzz]

N172 wrote...

@billy the squid: Thanks for the information, preorder cancelled - at least until we get new information or a possiblity to prevent any possible non-tolerable privacy violations

Bogsnot (at least I think it was him) talked about a very interesting way to block Origin from scanning your pc although I'm not a computer wiz so I don't know exactly if it works and if so how come it works (better ask someone who does). Basically I think he talked about making a seperate partition on his hard disk in a different format than the rest of his hard disk. Supposedly Origin would then not be able to read the rest of your computer. But again I'm no wiz so I'm not sure exactly how it works. It sounds brilliant however, if it works and I find out how, I'll definitly do it. I'm really looking forward to ME3 so not getting it because of Origin is not an option.

Future games requiring Origin however...

Modifié par Robhuzz, 14 octobre 2011 - 05:04 .

[Melchiah109]

@Robhuzz

It was probably something to do with Sandboxie.

[Zargon VII]

Nameterror wrote...

While I am writing this I am looking at my shelf where you can find 15 boxes with Bioware games. I actually bought, with the exception of Shattered Steel and DA 2, every single PC game Bioware ever released.
EA can do whatever it wants, but as long as Origin is an issue... I will not buy one single BW or EA game anymore. I hated to cancel my ME 3 preorder (*sigh*), but for me Origin is not acceptable.

This.  I bought Bioware games starting with the Baldur's Gate series and all the expansions.  I loved Mass Effect 1 and 2 and even pre-ordered Mass Effect 2, usually I never pre-order anything.  In this case I am glad I hadn't pre-ordered ME3 as I absolutely will not install Origin on my computer.  I guess I will miss out which will really ****** me off but EA has gone too far with Origin.  We are not all pirates and criminals, EA!
Currently I am finishing up Awakenings in the Dragon Age Ultimate Edition and it saddens me to realize this will be the last Bioware game I ever play.

[JGDD]

Melchiah109 wrote...

@Robhuzz

It was probably something to do with Sandboxie.

He mentioned FAT32 vs NTFS disc formatting/partitions. I'm not sure that would prevent scanning of other drives. Might prevent peeking into other partitions but should be verified first.

Modifié par justgimmedudedammit, 14 octobre 2011 - 05:36 .

[Erszebeth]

Well, since I am not into installing malware in my PC, it's one preorder less.

[Melchiah109]

You know, if you people that cancel pre-orders at the drop of a hat were really this against the Origin clause, you should have been yelling about it years ago when they started putting it into almost every TOS in existence. Now that EA has done what almost every other publisher has done it's suddenly Malware.

[Melchiah109]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

@Robhuzz

It was probably something to do with Sandboxie.

He mentioned FAT32 vs NTFS disc formatting/partitions. I'm not sure that would prevent scanning of other drives. Might prevent peeking into other partitions but should be verified first.

Hm...I'm not too sure about that one.

[Robhuzz]

Melchiah109 wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

@Robhuzz

It was probably something to do with Sandboxie.

He mentioned FAT32 vs NTFS disc formatting/partitions. I'm not sure that would prevent scanning of other drives. Might prevent peeking into other partitions but should be verified first.

Hm...I'm not too sure about that one.

I have no idea myself, that's why I posted what I think bogsnot said so other people could take a look at it. If the scanning can't be stopped, perhaps there's a way to effectively firewall Origin from sending that data to EA, then manually delete the data Origin gathered so it won't simply send it later? I don't know.. just a hunch. Still an awfull lot of work to protect our privacy though...blasted EA:mellow:

[JGDD]

Robhuzz wrote...

I have no idea myself, that's why I posted what I think bogsnot said so other people could take a look at it. If the scanning can't be stopped, perhaps there's a way to effectively firewall Origin from sending that data to EA, then manually delete the data Origin gathered so it won't simply send it later? I don't know.. just a hunch. Still an awfull lot of work to protect our privacy though...blasted EA:mellow:

Firewalling Origin might backfire if it needs a handshake from the server to initiate the game. Guess we'll have to wait for the updated tweet/FAQ charmingcharlie linked to a while back before the burning of Rome commences.

[Azbeszt]

anzolino wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
The problem is not that Origin can look at internet history, identify hardware set up or software installed on the machine, I certainly don't like it as a privacy issue, but as far as things go it's not awful, a friend has taken a look at Origin, he's far more tech savy than I am, but it was unclear what the program was actually up to, which is the main point, it hasn't been explained particularly well by EA.

I won't go into huge detail a clutter everything up, but appart from accessing EA and sytem related items, it also accessed all folders and I think a lot of files from the Program Datafolder

Origin also opened Xfire.ini as well as xfire_games.ini

File and registry logs showed that Origin did not access any values containing the word "browser", "Internet Explorer", "Steam", "Valve" or "Firefox" (my default browser) except for a couple of registry entries that indicated the default browser for the system. It also queried the registry entries Internet ExplorerSecuritySafety Warning Level and Internet ExplorerSecurity which seem to indicate what security level IE is running on.

There was also apparant communication with the EA servers with encrypted information sent to EA, but I don't know what it was. In addition the memory utilized increased to 2GB, which he was shocked by.

From a legal stand point the terms are very broad and largely undefined, which makes me apprehensive, my issues with Origin have always been the privacy and the vague way things have been presented. But, from a tech stand point it appears to be less excessive, than initally thought.

But I still have lingering questions and suspicions as to, why it attempts to scan all programdata folders, the huge memory utilisation, encrypted data sent to EA etc. I don't mind EA setting up their own digital distribution system, I rather it wasn't an artificially created market, but explaining what the Origin's system actually does has been badly handled, and they could have done themselves a favour by explaining clearly what Origins actually does.

billy, thanks for the short overview. Which game is it? Do you have an Opt-out button?

These aren't some ugly activities. No, no, just a little spying through registry and all folders - not related to the game - and sending unknown encrypted data to somewhere. But no panic, we can trust they really care about our data. We don't know the data but in EA we trust!

If I read "it also accessed all folders" then I translate "software, software usage" exactly in the way as before and billys description confirmed it as the right way. My folders are not relating to ME3! My program folder has nothing to do to ME3. This is my privacy and not EA business and not ME3 business!

So why do they do this? For what?
"...explaining clearly what Origins actually does." Yes, they could explain this!

How do they process so much data? 2GB+- per people is a lot.

[CAPSLOCK FURY]

Robhuzz wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

@Robhuzz

It was probably something to do with Sandboxie.

He mentioned FAT32 vs NTFS disc formatting/partitions. I'm not sure that would prevent scanning of other drives. Might prevent peeking into other partitions but should be verified first.

Hm...I'm not too sure about that one.

I have no idea myself, that's why I posted what I think bogsnot said so other people could take a look at it. If the scanning can't be stopped, perhaps there's a way to effectively firewall Origin from sending that data to EA, then manually delete the data Origin gathered so it won't simply send it later? I don't know.. just a hunch. Still an awfull lot of work to protect our privacy though...blasted EA:mellow:

In theory you could quarantine certain folders or drives so that it can't scan them with certain programs though. I saw something about that in the Battlefield 3 forums somewhere, but that post has long since been buried. Completely blocking communication between Origin and the server would probably not work out so well though.

[billy the squid]

Azbeszt wrote...

How do they process so much data? 2GB+- per people is a lot.

My bad on that front, futher examination brought up that the memory usage issue was created by the process moniter running in conjunction, but I think memory usage refers to  how much memory is used running or initallising the program, not actually the amount of data sent.

Apparantly the internet usage remains low when it sends encrypted data to EA, but if so, then what data is it actually sending? As scanning the ProgramData folder and the miscellaneous odds and ends such as icons as well, is potentially a large amount of data, so it doesn't make sense that it would scan the entire folder and then send a tiny amount of information, possibly handshakes maybe?. Yet, from what I've read from some other rather tech minded chaps it doesn't look at common registry keys and other common folders for software, but it does look in the ProgramData.

But, I don't know if it, Origin, could send more data later when updating or at another period. Honestly, I'm not sure what the program is up to.

If I get time I'll see if I can rumage around and get anymore data from the more tech minded people and post it in the off topic forum, there is already a thread there, so as to try not to get this thread locked by the power of Woo.

Modifié par billy the squid, 14 octobre 2011 - 08:02 .

[AgamenonAtreides]

If i understand it good,  they said than even you uninstalled the Origin the program still compiling information and sending.. that would mean than they are using a sub-program.. than we can find and block for some way...

Modifié par AgamenonAtreides, 15 octobre 2011 - 10:52 .

[Shepard the Leper]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

@Robhuzz

It was probably something to do with Sandboxie.

He mentioned FAT32 vs NTFS disc formatting/partitions. I'm not sure that would prevent scanning of other drives. Might prevent peeking into other partitions but should be verified first.

I doubt that will help. The only full-prove method would be to create a dual-boot system.

A Windows-install to play Origin games only; and a Windows-install for everything else. A waste of HDD space and Windows keys, annoying to re-boot your system when you want to play an Origin game, but it completely blocks EA to scan your "real" system.

[edit] Would be fun when most folks would do this. EA would only find Windows, drivers and Origin through data-mining ;-)

Modifié par Shepard the Leper, 15 octobre 2011 - 11:29 .

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

I'm sure pirates will find a way, then customers will suffer more than freeloaders, then people will say it encourages piracy, cue vicious cycle.

[didymos1120]

billy the squid wrote...
 Yet, from what I've read from some other rather tech minded chaps it doesn't look at common registry keys and other common folders for software, but it does look in the ProgramData.

OK, but what files specifically in Program Data?  'Cause that's a sort of scratch area used for semi-permanent data (if you're familiar with Linux or other Unices, it's kind of like the /var directory, though it's not as widely used or as standardized, because each user also has a separate AppData folder).  For instance, Origin keeps installers for downloaded games there if you've told it to keep those around. I presume that's also where it keeps them while downloding.  You'll also find various installation logs, random license files for apps, and stuff like that in there.

[Azbeszt]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

@Robhuzz

It was probably something to do with Sandboxie.

He mentioned FAT32 vs NTFS disc formatting/partitions. I'm not sure that would prevent scanning of other drives. Might prevent peeking into other partitions but should be verified first.

I doubt that will help. The only full-prove method would be to create a dual-boot system.

A Windows-install to play Origin games only; and a Windows-install for everything else. A waste of HDD space and Windows keys, annoying to re-boot your system when you want to play an Origin game, but it completely blocks EA to scan your "real" system.

[edit] Would be fun when most folks would do this. EA would only find Windows, drivers and Origin through data-mining ;-)

Haha, they would be pissed.
Also make a folder called "steam" containing trollface copies named "valve.jpg".