3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

SalsaDMA wrote...

So in other words, as long as they don't tell you about it, it's alright for them to spy on you.

Got it...

Hehe, more like, if you don't get caught when breaking laws, nothing illegal has happen.

Modifié par Lumikki, 05 novembre 2011 - 11:48 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Lumikki wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

So in other words, as long as they don't tell you about it, it's alright for them to spy on you.

Got it...

Hehe, more like, if don't get caught when breaking laws, nothing illegal has happen.

When a court upholds or denies your stance then the ground you stand on is firm, at the moment your hanging onto a branch hoping it doesn't snap and that they rule in your favor else sink into a tar pit. I am not waiting for each and every nation and even state to approve or disapprove of something that until one way or ther holds no water.

Until the verdict I am not insterested in the EULA. I am interested in what data is [collected], factual not assumption. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 05 novembre 2011 - 11:53 .

[Merchant2006]

Annnnd the thread has successfully been turned into a b*tching battle of the quotes. Oh the goddamn joy of being on BioWare Social. Dragoonz, please drop it. You are just endlessly quoting people saying "no evidence, fallacy, no proof!" to everyone. By all means you have the right to, but people here do not like the idea that you think it's "okay" and "it's not your problem" if Origin can potentially do whatever they want as what we're being forced to do is install spyware.

All this "no evidence" bollocks is really starting to annoy me too. So how about if you take your irritated little arse out of the thread because that's what I'm going to do. It's not going anywhere and you're certainly not understanding.

Modifié par Merchant2006, 05 novembre 2011 - 11:56 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Merchant2006 wrote...

Alright, I'm sick of this bickering. I'll go post some funny gif's on another thread. Eventually Dragoon, you will have to realise you've reached a wall-block. People aren't going to change their opinion about Origin because they do not like the idea that EA can easily sift through what they want. You beg for proof, but the fact that it's caught the German Media's attention and that something is being done about it... isn't that enough? I mean...

Okay, yeah I'll just leave you to b*tch about proof or whatnot, I honestly can't be bothered, you're just dissolving the thread into some 1v1 quote battle. Good luck.

You mean like the german publication which was just linked which is also part of the german media which has opposing view of equal face value?

I have come to the conclusion the ones crying foul are fearmongering. Because they have shown nothing to the contrary in the form of evidence just assumptions. Given your right about one single thing which is getting an answer or proof from naysayers is not going to happen ~because in reality they have none I will in turn continue using Origin because they have put no case forward which warrants me to join their fear bandwagon even when I came in here asking for such because I was willing to side with them if they could prove their assumptions were true and not fallacy. They had a chance they failed to grab it. Since refuse to back up claims I will leave it there and let them continue their propaganda campaign.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 06 novembre 2011 - 12:06 .

[Lumikki]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Until the verdict I am not insterested in the EULA. I am interested in what data is [collected], factual not assumption. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

Yeah, we know what you mean and it's so funny. Hehe, you dismiss writen confession, because you don't believe it as proof. I'm okey with that, because that's your personal choise. But I do believe when someone say they are spying me with they software. What's the point of confess something, if you don't do it. There is good to be skeptic, but been brick wall what doesn't believe anything others say, is other thing.

[SalsaDMA]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Merchant2006 wrote...

Alright, I'm sick of this bickering. I'll go post some funny gif's on another thread. Eventually Dragoon, you will have to realise you've reached a wall-block. People aren't going to change their opinion about Origin because they do not like the idea that EA can easily sift through what they want. You beg for proof, but the fact that it's caught the German Media's attention and that something is being done about it... isn't that enough? I mean...

Okay, yeah I'll just leave you to b*tch about proof or whatnot, I honestly can't be bothered, you're just dissolving the thread into some 1v1 quote battle. Good luck.

You mean like the german publication which was just linked which is also part of the german media which has opposing view of equal face value?

I have come to the conclusion the ones crying foul are fearmongering. Because they have shown nothing to the contrary in the form of evidence just assumptions. Given your right about one single thing which is getting an answer or proof from naysayers is not going to happen ~because in reality they have none I will in turn continue using Origin because they have put no case forward which warrants me to join their fear bandwagon even when I came in here asking for such because I was willing to side with them if they could prove their assumptions were true and not fallacy. They had a chance they failed to grab it. Since refuse to back up claims I will leave it there and let them continue their propaganda campaign.

EA certainly has an interest in battling for their program called Origin, as they invested alot of money in it and are hoping to use it as a cashcow in the future. You are naive if you think they will play nice in their way of battling against the tide.

Considering they were shown to try and skew reviews when launching bf3 by trying to get feelers of reviewers past tendencies before deciding if they should give them a copy to review, do you really think underhanded manipulation of the media is beyond them? Corporate america is already showed too well as being manipulative in the documentary of hotcoffe. I would be more shocked if they didn't try to battle with sending agents to battle and seeding medias with constructed stories.

There's a saying for how they act, just like Sony acted: "When everything else fails, manipulate the data..."
Problem for them is that enough data got out on the web in hands they don't got control over, so they have to do their best to discredit it to have any chance of survival.

[N0-Future]

Ive been away for about a week and this thread has jumped frpm 18 pages to nearly 70, some really good arguments though guys.
Personally I wont put that spyware crap on my PC...And I think the majority of people think the same judging by what Ive read in the last 30ish pages.

Modifié par N0-Future, 06 novembre 2011 - 12:32 .

[Dragoonlordz]

SalsaDMA wrote...

EA certainly has an interest in battling for their program called Origin, as they invested alot of money in it and are hoping to use it as a cashcow in the future. You are naive if you think they will play nice in their way of battling against the tide.

Considering they were shown to try and skew reviews when launching bf3 by trying to get feelers of reviewers past tendencies before deciding if they should give them a copy to review, do you really think underhanded manipulation of the media is beyond them? Corporate america is already showed too well as being manipulative in the documentary of hotcoffe. I would be more shocked if they didn't try to battle with sending agents to battle and seeding medias with constructed stories.

There's a saying for how they act, just like Sony acted: "When everything else fails, manipulate the data..."
Problem for them is that enough data got out on the web in hands they don't got control over, so they have to do their best to discredit it to have any chance of survival.

True corporations can be real asses especially EA, but all this bickering is simply due to what offends me is not same as what offends someone else, the EULA doesn't offend me the scanning of files doesn't offend me but dependant on files they collect I might be offended hence due to me asking one very simple question of which the answer I can use to decide if I will use Origin or not. It was simply could someone prove to me or show me exactly what "data" they take or collect unfortuantly the actual EULA only states the following:

The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.

Taken alongside what EA have said and that german magazine that only take information about EA product regarding the software element of quote, I consider that not clear enough to base my decision upon. Hence the question remains if they take more than what between EULA and the EA statement in magazine states then could someone show me evidence they lied or are lying or if have proof what are they actually taking instead.

All I got is stonewalled with constant comments about what offends them instead which put my patience right out the window after a while of being so. Other are offended by the EULA some are offended by having any files scanned, I am offended dependant on what is taken. What I asked for would give clarification about the very aspect that might offend me, nothing more.

Now my friend said she just wants a on or off basically for using Origin to play of which I have no objection to whatsoever. But like always on BSN between the stonewalling and constant change of subject between me trying to get answer to my question regarding what might offend me instead others repeating what offends them only. Not a single person brought up the subject of they would just like s simple do not or do collect data function and not a single person actually answered my question.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 06 novembre 2011 - 12:54 .

[SalsaDMA]

Dragon, unless EA caves and releases the design documents for Origin (which I really doubt they will) no-one but EA will ever really know what the specs of Origin are.

The posibilities of design patterns in how to facilitate things are practically endless, so the only thing you can rely on is what kind of legal buffers they try and put to safeguard themselves. And there they rather clearly stated they wanted to harvest data and sell it to 3rd party companies.

So basicly it comes down to the following question: "How much do YOU trust EA."
For me, the answer is by now: "Not a whole frigging lot." Hence Origin won't get on my system, ever.

If you, for some reason that I personally wouldn't be able to fathom, feel that you can trust them, go right ahead and install Origin on your system.

edit: And I say design documents, because with the mutable nature of Origin and its communication with external servers even a snapshot of the sourcecode would be useless as far as determing capabilities in the past and in the future.

Modifié par SalsaDMA, 06 novembre 2011 - 12:56 .

[Torhagen]

Considering that several huge Electronics store around here refunded BF3 because of the EA spy ware named origin this is definitely a no go.
I didn't like the DA2 restriction management <_< but I arranged myself with it
the datahungry origin client is where i drawn the definite line:police:

[Dragoonlordz]

SalsaDMA wrote...

And there they rather clearly stated they wanted to harvest data and sell it to 3rd party companies.

Where did they state that though?

The only part I could see in the EULA relating to this was:

Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone.

We and agents acting on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to enforce EA’s legal rights.

These things again have nothing to do with finding out if they gather information I do not want them to have and I guess I will have to accept the fact the community won't supply me with any form of answer to my question.

I even support the option to opt in or opt out of any data gathering.

But overall I am not as offened as some of you others by Origin (unless) it is at some point proven they lied about gathering information aka what information was gathered. Now if it offends others that I am not offended then that quite honestly is not my problem or fault. What take offense to is subjective and is different for everyone.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 06 novembre 2011 - 01:08 .

[Savadrin]

i play on xbox, they're free to scan that all that want, i'm sure microsoft does. oh wait my xbox isn't online because i'm in alaska and have dialup, woot. wait, i hope ME3 won't be like some games and require me to go online to activate it for console. i had to toss a couple of different games because i couldn't get broadband in this area.....

either way the point is moot in the end. it took less than 24 hours for blizzards starcraft 2 to get cracked and modded to play without battlenet, and EA's BF3 already has a crack for it. if Mass Effect 3 requires origin to play on PC, it will suffer the same fate.

all that money companies invest in their products in the name of stopping piracy is moot, it's going to happen. most people just pay for the game anyway. they could make better games if they'd stop wasting money and man-hours in the attempt and just focus on the game.

[SalsaDMA]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

And there they rather clearly stated they wanted to harvest data and sell it to 3rd party companies.

Where did they state that though?

The only part I could see in the EULA relating to this was:

Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone.

We and agents acting on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to enforce EA’s legal rights.

That's a modified EULA you are quoting from. It's been changed several times by now after the initial outrage hit the web.

The early versions clearly stated the harvesting and selling to 3rd party companies, but got removed and vague terms where swapped in instead to try and appease a growing amount of dissenters that were crying murder on th web.

[SalsaDMA]

Savadrin wrote...

i play on xbox, they're free to scan that all that want, i'm sure microsoft does. oh wait my xbox isn't online because i'm in alaska and have dialup, woot. wait, i hope ME3 won't be like some games and require me to go online to activate it for console. i had to toss a couple of different games because i couldn't get broadband in this area.....

either way the point is moot in the end. it took less than 24 hours for blizzards starcraft 2 to get cracked and modded to play without battlenet, and EA's BF3 already has a crack for it. if Mass Effect 3 requires origin to play on PC, it will suffer the same fate.

all that money companies invest in their products in the name of stopping piracy is moot, it's going to happen. most people just pay for the game anyway. they could make better games if they'd stop wasting money and man-hours in the attempt and just focus on the game.

The likes of Origin and battlenet isn't to prevent piracy. It's to get shares in the advertising market.

[Dragoonlordz]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

And there they rather clearly stated they wanted to harvest data and sell it to 3rd party companies.

Where did they state that though?

The only part I could see in the EULA relating to this was:

Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone.

We and agents acting on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to enforce EA’s legal rights.

That's a modified EULA you are quoting from. It's been changed several times by now after the initial outrage hit the web.

The early versions clearly stated the harvesting and selling to 3rd party companies, but got removed and vague terms where swapped in instead to try and appease a growing amount of dissenters that were crying murder on th web.

The one I quoted from is from August. 4 months ago since its November now.

-Edited-

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 06 novembre 2011 - 01:20 .

[Savadrin]

SalsaDMA wrote...

The likes of Origin and battlenet isn't to prevent piracy. It's to get shares in the advertising market.

electronic word of mouth is the number one biggest way to advertise anything since the advent of social networking. yes, scanning everyone's computers so that they can better target their advertising campaigns is part of why big comanies invest in stuff like origin and blizzards warden and other stuff like that, but it all boils down to DRM and getting a dollar out of you for anything you might ever enjoy.


in the end, it's self destructive for the entertainment industry, but in the end, they(the big companies, not just EA) are going to get away with it, and probably much more, and the majority of the ignorant masses aren't even going to notice.

[SalsaDMA]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

And there they rather clearly stated they wanted to harvest data and sell it to 3rd party companies.

Where did they state that though?

The only part I could see in the EULA relating to this was:

Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone.

We and agents acting on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to enforce EA’s legal rights.

That's a modified EULA you are quoting from. It's been changed several times by now after the initial outrage hit the web.

The early versions clearly stated the harvesting and selling to 3rd party companies, but got removed and vague terms where swapped in instead to try and appease a growing amount of dissenters that were crying murder on th web.

The one I quoted from is from August. 4 months ago since its November now.

-Edited-

It's getting late here now, so my eyes are starting to get heavy.
However, there's an interesting link here. I don't speak german, so it's filtered through google translate.

http://translate.goo...omments&act=url

Make of it what you will

[Dragoonlordz]

There is a lot of "reasonable to assume" or "implied" on that link, maybe it's just how bad google translator is but I don't think that is the case.

The end simple enough to understand is what offends some of you does not offend me, The only things that would offend me are very specific to what the actual data is collected on myself, this basically means only financial status data that I have not given permission for them to store or RL work data would offend me and breach copyright if they collect and store product data/content I make for my business. The only other thing that would offend me is if it affects my playing of a game in the sense of having to have Origin running 24/7 while playing a single player game, this does not include playing online games of which have no issue with it running.

That whether people agree or like or disagree or offends them that someone else could ever feel differently is not up for debate. What offends others might not offend me it is as simple as that. If you think I should be offended because you say so then you will need a reality check both on how the world works and how insignificant you are to my life.

I actually see the validity in having a one time Origin running upon install of new game to specifically register and more accuratley authorise a game you have purchased as [one off] need to do. I also have no problem it scanning and being open constant during online play ideally if only checks for modified game files during competitive play and current running processes which includes thrid party applications that may give you an edge over others online.

But I do see the validity as compromise to having an opt in or opt out option for data transmission with exception of the two aspects just mentioned where one the authorise is to prevent theft and the other is to prevent cheating in competitive play online even though I believe Origin currently does not cover this aspect. However no-one here will tell me what to be offended at, they can suggest my lack of offense is due to ignorance but they would be wrong with exception of the dependance on finding out what data is actually transmitted/sent. But that will only come if do probably a freedom of information act call and the same ignorance can be applied in reverse of reliance on assumption and lack of information about aspects of Origin the other way around for those who have the opposite view with plain simple bias blinded by rightful vengence and indignation on that side.

The end result is this the EULA does not offend me and it does not worry me as such it is not been tested in courts here locally therefore is not legal or illegal until a case occurs where such happens and there is a ruling made as far as I am concerned. The Origin client (other than finding out in due time what data is collected specifically transmitted/sent) does not offend me. The scanning of my system does not offend me at all. But however I do see the benefit of having an opt in and opt out function on Origin itself and the aspect of not having to use it to play single player titles (after) authorised your copy.

That's my final opinion on the subject, if do not like it so be it but I have the freedom to express it and have chosen to do so. From this point on now I have expressed my opinion clearly I will let you all continue without any further interruption. << See I'm not really a big meanie, well not completely atleast.




*Following added because some people can't take the hint*

P.s. If you feel the uncontrollable urge to attack another persons opinion [aka mine] just because you do not share that opinion it will come back to bite you in the arse. I suggest if do not like my opinion feel free to read it and move on. We do not need to agree on things but my opinion is equally as valid as another persons, each person has one and not everyone has to see the world in same shades of grey as everyone else.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 07 novembre 2011 - 05:34 .

[Lumikki]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

But however I do see the benefit of having an opt in and opt out function on Origin itself and the aspect of not having to use it to play single player titles (after) authorised your copy.

That is what we ask and want.

If someone want's to help EA with data collection, they have that option, if someone doesn't what them to collect data, they should have that choise too.

[RyuujinZERO]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Metalrocks wrote...

well, i have written an email to bioware regarding origin. lets hope that our complains and concerns will reach them. especially EA.

Well, I've already said we are looking at this. I've already posted here, so we're obviously looking at it. I am teh guy who'll get your email, so we'll still be looking at it. It doesn't hurt to send it twice, but it is a tad redundant. Still, if it makes you feel better, there is no problem in sending emails as well as voicing your opinion here.

*Puts on Al Jihlani voice, and gets out camera drone*

Since the leaked closed beta of Mass Effect 3 seems to have been designed with Origin integration as a built in feature, can we assume that the decision really has been made already by this stage Commander Priestly?



/In before punch the journalist ;p

[N0-Future]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Metalrocks wrote...

well, i have written an email to bioware regarding origin. lets hope that our complains and concerns will reach them. especially EA.

Well, I've already said we are looking at this. I've already posted here, so we're obviously looking at it. I am teh guy who'll get your email, so we'll still be looking at it. It doesn't hurt to send it twice, but it is a tad redundant. Still, if it makes you feel better, there is no problem in sending emails as well as voicing your opinion here.

*Puts on Al Jihlani voice, and gets out camera drone*

Since the leaked closed beta of Mass Effect 3 seems to have been designed with Origin integration as a built in feature, can we assume that the decision really has been made already by this stage Commander Priestly?



/In before punch the journalist ;p

LOL... nice mate:lol:

[ironman001]

Wow i see that this topic grow a lot but still we get no answer to our question:
Will Origin be required to play Mass Effect 3?
When do you think we get our answer personally i think never or 3.6.2012 because even when demo comes out and it will required Origin they just say that demo need Origin but they not sure if full game will.

[RocShemp]

ironman001 wrote...

Wow i see that this topic grow a lot but still we get no answer to our question:
Will Origin be required to play Mass Effect 3?
When do you think we get our answer personally i think never or 3.6.2012 because even when demo comes out and it will required Origin they just say that demo need Origin but they not sure if full game will.

Wow.  After all this time it's still in debate?  Geez, that's disheartening.

[Raygereio]

RocShemp wrote...
Wow.  After all this time it's still in debate?  Geez, that's disheartening.

Debate? No. Try unconfirmed. The details have simply not been released yet. But it's a good bet they've already been determined.

I'd expect it to be Origin though (there's the beta and EA has offcourse invested a good deal of resources in Origin so far, so corporate thinking dictates they're going to use it against all logic and common sense) but they're naturally going to wait a while until the current Origin-debacle has blown over.
Expect the announcement of the DRM details somewhere in December of Januari.

[Relshar]

Just one question
Do we get the option to not install Origin? Or will it just install it without us knowing?