3140 réponses à ce sujet

[hangmans tree]

Dariuszp wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Embrosil wrote...

That is strange. Here in Europe if you do not agree with EULA, you can take an opened copy of the game beack to the shop and demad a refund. It is not your fault that you do not agree. I guess it is different in the USA though.

Not in everywhere in EU, it's depending about countries and even shops too.

Check consumer rights. Once you disagree with EULA you can just return software. That's it. If they don't want to take it - just write complain to some goverment agency that handle consumer rights. Some people THINK that they cannot do something because shop refuse it. But it's not true. They refuse it and they are breaking the law.

Unfortunately this is not right in most cases. After you remove the original packaging all your rights to return the product are void.

That is why in my case I NEED to know about Origin prior my purchase. Since most important features are not included in the print/cover of the product we cant be sure untill we read EULA which moronically requires unboxing... and then my dear sir, we are screwd without any lubricant.

[Lumikki]

Dariuszp wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Embrosil wrote...

That is strange. Here in Europe if you do not agree with EULA, you can take an opened copy of the game beack to the shop and demad a refund. It is not your fault that you do not agree. I guess it is different in the USA though.

Not in everywhere in EU, it's depending about countries and even shops too.

Check consumer rights. Once you disagree with EULA you can just return software. That's it. If they don't want to take it - just write complain to some goverment agency that handle consumer rights. Some people THINK that they cannot do something because shop refuse it. But it's not true. They refuse it and they are breaking the law.

Yes, but are you sure EVERY country in EU has that in they LAW's? Because even if all EU countries are part of EU, they still have induvidual laws.

[Embrosil]

Lumikki wrote...

Embrosil wrote...

That is strange. Here in Europe if you do not agree with EULA, you can take an opened copy of the game beack to the shop and demad a refund. It is not your fault that you do not agree. I guess it is different in the USA though.

Not in everywhere in EU, it's depending about countries and even shops too.

Oh, I have thought it is a common law for the whole EU. Well at least here in the Czech Republic, the law protects the customer, so you can return the game if you disagree with EULA and the shop has to take it back and refund you.

[Vegos]

Lumikki wrote...
Yes, but are you sure EVERY country in EU has that in they LAW's? Because even if all EU countries are part of EU, they still have induvidual laws.

I'd have to look it up if it applies in the case of consumer rights. There's many laws member countries had to change in order to adhere to the directives sent from the EU leadership. Hell, my country had to amend the CONSTITUTION (on a rather obscure and very specific article that had no impact in practice, but still).

[RocShemp]

Here's the Mass Effect 3 EULA: http://eacom.s3.amaz....5.11 FINAL.pdf

The pertinent information is the following:

B. Technical Protection Measures. The PC version of this Software uses
Origin Online Activation content protection technology. An EA/Origin
Account, including the acceptance of EA’s online Terms of Service and
Privacy Policy (available at www.ea.com), installation of the Origin client
application (www.origin/about.com), acceptance of the Origin EULA, and
an Internet connection are required to authenticate the Software and
verify your license upon the initial launch of the Software on any unique
machine (“Authenticate” or “Authentication”). The serial code provided
with this Software will be verified during Authentication. Authentication is
limited to one EA Account per serial code. Accordingly, this Software is
not transferable. EA reserves the right to validate your license through
subsequent online Authentication. While there is no limit on the total
number of machines on which the Software can be Authenticated, you
may launch and access the Software on no more than five (5) unique
machines in any rolling 24-hour period. If you disable or otherwise
tamper with the technical protection measures, the Software may not
function properly and you will have materially breached this License.
Keep your serial code as you may need it to install the Software on other
machines.

The technical protection measures of this Software may interfere with
certain applications, such as debuggers, when such software could
potentially be used to circumvent the access-control technology as
prohibited by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.


C. Access to Online Features And/Or Services. An EA/Origin Account,
including the acceptance of EA’s online Terms of Service
(http://terms.ea.com) and Privacy Policy (http://privacy.ea.com) and
registration with the serial code enclosed with the Software, may be
required to access online services and/or features. Only licensed software
can be used to access online services and/or features, including
downloadable content and access to such features, is limited to you and
your immediate family or members of your household.

I got it from EA: http://www.ea.com/1/...4lsixaz4xlf7nka

From there, scroll down until you see "Mass Effect 3" and a truncated version of it's EULA.  Click on "Mass Effect 3" and it takes you to the full EULA here: http://eacom.s3.amaz....5.11 FINAL.pdf

Modifié par RocShemp, 07 novembre 2011 - 05:09 .

[tomas2377]

RocShemp wrote...

Here's the Mass Effect 3 EULA: http://eacom.s3.amaz....5.11 FINAL.pdf

The pertinent information is the following:

B. Technical Protection Measures. The PC version of this Software uses
Origin Online Activation content protection technology. An EA/Origin
Account, including the acceptance of EA’s online Terms of Service and
Privacy Policy (available at www.ea.com), installation of the Origin client
application (www.origin/about.com), acceptance of the Origin EULA, and
an Internet connection are required to authenticate the Software and
verify your license upon the initial launch of the Software on any unique
machine (“Authenticate” or “Authentication”). The serial code provided
with this Software will be verified during Authentication. Authentication is
limited to one EA Account per serial code. Accordingly, this Software is
not transferable. EA reserves the right to validate your license through
subsequent online Authentication. While there is no limit on the total
number of machines on which the Software can be Authenticated, you
may launch and access the Software on no more than five (5) unique
machines in any rolling 24-hour period. If you disable or otherwise
tamper with the technical protection measures, the Software may not
function properly and you will have materially breached this License.
Keep your serial code as you may need it to install the Software on other
machines.

The technical protection measures of this Software may interfere with
certain applications, such as debuggers, when such software could
potentially be used to circumvent the access-control technology as
prohibited by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.


C. Access to Online Features And/Or Services. An EA/Origin Account,
including the acceptance of EA’s online Terms of Service
(http://terms.ea.com) and Privacy Policy (http://privacy.ea.com) and
registration with the serial code enclosed with the Software, may be
required to access online services and/or features. Only licensed software
can be used to access online services and/or features, including
downloadable content and access to such features, is limited to you and
your immediate family or members of your household.

This makes me glad that I cancelled my ME3 N7 pre order.

EA/Bioware just lost a customer.

If I ever have the cash to buy a new computer I will dedicate it to EA/Bioware games with absolutely no personal information on it. Then it won't be a problem if they steal and scan the datafiles on that system. But I will not install this unlawful spyware on my main computer. My personal life and information is my own!

[Vegos]

Ah, well, dagnabbit. I'm all out of straws now.

It seems I need to contemplate on this once more.

Modifié par Vegos, 07 novembre 2011 - 12:29 .

[SalsaDMA]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

Just out of interest what happens in the future ? I've recently been playing some of my old games on my new laptop, will I be able to play Mass Effect 3 in ten years time on a different computer having already put it on three ? What if Origins doesn't exist anymore ( made their money and moved on ) ? You can still listen to old CD's you've had for years but will something that needs activation/download on the internet still work ? Does EA have a good track record of maintaining things that they no longer make money on just to keep the customers happy ?

Either way I'm not buying it until this is all resolved or can be avoided.

Given that some of my old games became unplayable once the activation servers wnet down, I'd say the same holds true for any Origin game.

I guess it fits perfectly with their perception that consumers are no longer >buying< their games, but merely renting them.

Considered the degredation of product (buying versus renting) I'm surprised they didn't lower the price at the same time but have actually increased it over time, not only in immediate output but even moreso through DLCs to get the full product. Greed knows no boundaries I guess.

What makes me wonder in this thread, though, is when people can dig up the EULA on amazon to see the answer to the rather simple question: "Does ME3 require Origin", why couldn't we get a simple and clear answer from anyone at either EA or Bioware?

[Vegos]

SalsaDMA wrote...

What makes me wonder in this thread, though, is when people can dig up the EULA on amazon to see the answer to the rather simple question: "Does ME3 require Origin", why couldn't we get a simple and clear answer from anyone at either EA or Bioware?

Plausible deniability, I suppose...

But even that one is shoddy at best.

Modifié par Vegos, 07 novembre 2011 - 12:47 .

[Lumikki]

SalsaDMA wrote...

What makes me wonder in this thread, though, is when people can dig up the EULA on amazon to see the answer to the rather simple question: "Does ME3 require Origin", why couldn't we get a simple and clear answer from anyone at either EA or Bioware?

There is still different between forced tinstallation of Origin client to verify games DRM and forced installation of Origin client with forced data collection as break of computer privacy. Forcing players to use Origin client is legal, forcing them to give up they computer privacy, because wanting play the game is illegal.

So, EA may change how the Origin client works related data collection.

Modifié par Lumikki, 07 novembre 2011 - 12:57 .

[Siegdrifa]

SalsaDMA wrote...

What makes me wonder in this thread, though, is when people can dig up the EULA on amazon to see the answer to the rather simple question: "Does ME3 require Origin", why couldn't we get a simple and clear answer from anyone at either EA or Bioware?

We are 4 month away from the release, EA need to see how BF3 origin only (pc) worked, they also have (or they will soon) to face the privacy intrusion, Germany is pretty hostile toward this matters (thanks guys!).

Even if we had an "answer" from Bioware now, i would take it like with a grain of salt,  because final decision can change in 4 month.

So, better be patient, we will be sure only few weeks before the game is out.

[SalsaDMA]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

SalsaDMA .. Too true, but lowering the price ? That'll probably happen before we get a definitive answer ! It all spells trouble and the lack of clarity about Origins necessity is not something that anybody is proud of and is just something that they hope will be sneaked in before it's noticed and sales wont fall too much.

All the more reason to avoid it !

Well regarding the price.. When I buy a DVD with a movie on, it's usually more expensive than if I go down and rent a DVD with the same movie on it.

It goes with common sense that temporary access to a product is/should-be cheaper than permanent access.

One could of course argue that since they don't offer permanent access anymore the point becomes moot, but then this point could be countered by pointing out competitors that offer similar products, for the same or lesser price, for permanent access. Ie. not renting.

But I guess I'm going slightly offtopic here, so I'll quit this line of thought now

[antagonist99]

hangmans tree wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Embrosil wrote...

That is strange. Here in Europe if you do not agree with EULA, you can take an opened copy of the game beack to the shop and demad a refund. It is not your fault that you do not agree. I guess it is different in the USA though.

Not in everywhere in EU, it's depending about countries and even shops too.

Check consumer rights. Once you disagree with EULA you can just return software. That's it. If they don't want to take it - just write complain to some goverment agency that handle consumer rights. Some people THINK that they cannot do something because shop refuse it. But it's not true. They refuse it and they are breaking the law.

Unfortunately this is not right in most cases. After you remove the original packaging all your rights to return the product are void.

That is why in my case I NEED to know about Origin prior my purchase. Since most important features are not included in the print/cover of the product we cant be sure untill we read EULA which moronically requires unboxing... and then my dear sir, we are screwd without any lubricant.

Er, which country do you live in, and do you have a link to any law that explicitely states this? Because the way I see it, the origin EULA adds a few more things that you have to agree to in order to receive a working copy of the game. If you don't agree to it, the contract is null and void since your copy of the game did not work, surprisingly, and must thus be annulled. You get the money back, the shop the game, open carton or not.

[MarauderESP]

€A/BW lost a costumer..... well they dont care anyway, and forget a clear answer they wont give it, im not installing that spyware on my pc, and im not getting any €A/BW games for the ps3 too, lets put in this way , they lost a BF3 sale, and ME3 sale , and NFSTR sale, that would be 180€ in a few months , that would be nothing to them, but i will tell everyone i know what €A is doing if i manage to convince 1 more ppl ill be happy becouse they will lost another costumers... u know mouth to mouth is the best marketing in the world...

ill stay here and see if Mr Chris shows up and see what he says.... but i dont have any hope already....

[BeastMTL]

Source:

[url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=451016]http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=451016[/url]

That sort of nails it, doesnt it.

[Vegos]

Nails it? Hm, not entirely. I mean, what happens if we pick "NO" then? Aside from likely a popup widow asking if we're sure we want to do that because they can't guarantee quality play yadda yadda...

[Relix28]

Well, good thing I'm on the Xbox then.

If I was on the PC, I would find an alternative to play the game without the damn spyware, or switch to Xbox/PS3.

[BeastMTL]

My guess would be that regardless if you say yes or no, Origin would be running in the background anyway.

They are using it as DRM after all.

Modifié par BeastMTL, 07 novembre 2011 - 01:51 .

[Vegos]

BeastMTL wrote...

My guess would be that regardless if you say yes or no, Origin would be running in the background anyway.

They are using it as DRM after all.

Yeah, makes sense. *sigh*

[Pomi87]

Thats it then. If that Amazon EULA is true I'm not buying ME3.

[Bocks]

I'm pretty sure it won't be required once I crack it.

[RocShemp]

Lumikki wrote...

So, EA may change how the Origin client works related data collection.

But until they do just that, why would you reward them with your money?  As I recall, a similar DRM debacle ocurred with the original Mass Effect.  Since Bioware/EA got enough negative press, they issued a patch that removed that particular DRM and subsequent pressings of the game excluded said DRM.

So until something similar occurs with ME3, I see no reason for giving them my money.

Modifié par RocShemp, 07 novembre 2011 - 04:56 .

[Alex_SM]

Origin required? Ok, not my money this time.