3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sethan_1 wrote...

Eh, one more before I wander off.

Don't have anything to hide?  Lots of folks have personal information on their PCs that, while not illegal in any way, is not a good idea to have in the public domain.  Most people don't have any need to keep the contents of their hard drive private from Bioware/EA.  If you're not pirating their games, its a pretty good bet they don't have any interest in your banking information, tax records, or pr0n collection.

There are however, a few other things that need consideration.

1) Once they have your information, whatever it is, there is no guarantee what will happen to it.  They can give or sell it to "affiliates" for marketing purposes, and should they go out of business or be purchased by another company, literally anything could happen to your information regardless of any prior assurances they have made.

2) Any private data you have on your internet-connected computer is certainly at risk, but as an individual your value as a target is pretty low.  Hackers don't spend a lot of time targeting you in particular.  They do however love breaking into large online services to steal information or upload malware.  Had the wonderful folks who hacked Bioware/EA six months ago waited a bit, they could have picked up not just usernames, passwords email addresses and CD keys from the Bioware site, but also the account data of the 4 million Origin users... along with any other data Origin collected on you.  Why should the hackers bother targeting you as an individual when Origin is already doing most of the work for them?

3) I'm sure there will be regular updates to the Origin client.  It isn't uncommon for hackers to upload malware or altered software to compromised sites.  So imagine for a moment that they upload an altered version of Origin when they hack into EA next time (and there will be a next time).  You download it the next time you bring up your machine, just like you would any other Origin update.  This is a program you have already allowed past your firewall and virus protection, and is already expected to scan all your files and send data back.  ...only now it is sending back data to people who absolutely intend to misuse it.

Personally I don't pirate games or music.  I've been in IT for nearly 35 years, used to work in the software industry, and I respect the right of the people who do to make money off their work.  However, I take some pains to keep as little useful information about myself on the internet as possible, precisely because I know that anything out there will eventually fall into the hands of someone unscrupulous.  I don't see any good reason to accelerate the process.

^ THIS.  Well said.

I would add that privacy is valuable for its own sake, as a matter of principle. 


Unfortunately, we now live in a world of Facebook and YouTube and TMZ, and far too many people think that glass houses and constant attention are the natural way of things.  Shame.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 09 novembre 2011 - 03:09 .

[Soul Cool]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
An inept government still possesses the force of a goverment, and less wisdom and discretion in using it. Few things are more dangerous than powerful stupidity.

They don't posses the ability to utilize their power, though, and they are severely limited by their own interanlized rules and regulations in almost all cases.

I would be afraid if they were better at, well, being incompetent, but they can't even do that right.

[Kileyan]

Vegos wrote...

Just to clarify, I don't believe they have evil and malicious intentions with our personal data, because that would be a bad business plan. But we have a saying here, "Good intentions pave the road to hell".

HOWEVER, they also have no business with it, and they're not even legally entitled to collect it, so it's a bad business plan already.

Pretty much this. I don't think even EAware is really collecting personal data on me for nefarious reasons.

However, in this age where several times a week the tech news sites and blogs are posting the hacking and loss of personal info of everything from minor forums to millions of dollar online services, I think it is a bad timing to demand the collection of any kind of info just to play a game. Let alone pretty much a blank warrant to scan everything.

Sure they promise not to do anything with that info. But EAware can't promise anything about it being stolen. Especially in light of Biowares very own forums being hacked not more than 4 months ago.

Seriously that is ballsy. Asking for folks to trust their service to collect tons of information, within months of their own forum servers being hacked.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Soul Cool wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
An inept government still possesses the force of a goverment, and less wisdom and discretion in using it. Few things are more dangerous than powerful stupidity.

They don't posses the ability to utilize their power, though, and they are severely limited by their own interanlized rules and regulations in almost all cases.

I would be afraid if they were better at, well, being incompetent, but they can't even do that right.

Even an intoxicated fool can accidentally step on ants. 

[Vegos]

Soul Cool wrote...

They don't posses the ability to utilize their power, though, and they are severely limited by their own interanlized rules and regulations in almost all cases.

I would be afraid if they were better at, well, being incompetent, but they can't even do that right.

Disagreed, but this is a debate that has no place here. If you wish, I can PM you and explain why I think an incompetent government is worse than a competent one.

[Shermos]

http://www.joystiq.c...no-local-co-op/

The more I read from the horse's mouth, the more it seems that Origin will be required only to activate the game, not to play it. As I've said in an earlier post, I can deal with that and I suspect most people here can too.

I'm not a huge Bioware fanboy, but I don't see them as the bad guy here. I think they have people who genuinely look for fan feedback and have been quietly negotioating with EA not to force Origin on ME the way Ubisoft has a constant net connection on its games. 

So, yeah, can we say /thread now?

Modifié par Shermos, 09 novembre 2011 - 08:38 .

[Lumikki]

Sethan_1 wrote...

Eh, one more before I wander off.

Don't have anything to hide? Lots of folks have personal information on their PCs that, while not illegal in any way, is not a good idea to have in the public domain. Most people don't have any need to keep the contents of their hard drive private from Bioware/EA. If you're not pirating their games, its a pretty good bet they don't have any interest in your banking information, tax records, or pr0n collection.

There are however, a few other things that need consideration.

1) Once they have your information, whatever it is, there is no guarantee what will happen to it. They can give or sell it to "affiliates" for marketing purposes, and should they go out of business or be purchased by another company, literally anything could happen to your information regardless of any prior assurances they have made.

2) Any private data you have on your internet-connected computer is certainly at risk, but as an individual your value as a target is pretty low. Hackers don't spend a lot of time targeting you in particular. They do however love breaking into large online services to steal information or upload malware. Had the wonderful folks who hacked Bioware/EA six months ago waited a bit, they could have picked up not just usernames, passwords email addresses and CD keys from the Bioware site, but also the account data of the 4 million Origin users... along with any other data Origin collected on you. Why should the hackers bother targeting you as an individual when Origin is already doing most of the work for them?

3) I'm sure there will be regular updates to the Origin client. It isn't uncommon for hackers to upload malware or altered software to compromised sites. So imagine for a moment that they upload an altered version of Origin when they hack into EA next time (and there will be a next time). You download it the next time you bring up your machine, just like you would any other Origin update. This is a program you have already allowed past your firewall and virus protection, and is already expected to scan all your files and send data back. ...only now it is sending back data to people who absolutely intend to misuse it.

Personally I don't pirate games or music. I've been in IT for nearly 35 years, used to work in the software industry, and I respect the right of the people who do to make money off their work. However, I take some pains to keep as little useful information about myself on the internet as possible, precisely because I know that anything out there will eventually fall into the hands of someone unscrupulous. I don't see any good reason to accelerate the process.

I think this is good post to read, but I would like to point something too. This is NOT about do you have something to hide or do you pirate anything. This is about "careless computing" and others respecting our private property same ways that companies are demanding us to respect they private property.

I also have been in this IT business decades and learn to understand the danger beneath of the software based service design's. Meaning, to create nice service, isn't enough, it also has to be design so that it's safe and respect everyones private property. Many todays modern service aren't safe at all and even more of them doesn't respect users privacy at all.

This is about been smart and not giving something to others what they don't need or even have rights to have. So don't be careless with you computer privacy and security, it doesn't lead anything good in the future. I may not have anything to hide, but that doesn't mean I should stand naked in street, because of it. Don't expose you self when there is no need, fight for you rights of privacy what are defined by laws. Same ways that companies fights for they rights for digital private property rights.

Modifié par Lumikki, 09 novembre 2011 - 12:36 .

[Bogsnot1]

ME2 also required an initial internet check before it would play.

The Origin software has nothing to do with this initial check, as you will be loggin in using your Origin account, which is the same account you use to log in here with.

The Origin software, as far as we can determine, is currently required to install the game. Even if we can uninstall Origin after ME3 is installed, thats still not acceptable. There is no way in hell that spyware is going anywhere near my system.
Bioware might not be the bad guy here, but if their corporate overlords demand that crap software is a requirement for the game, then they will be the bad guy by way of not standing up for their customers and fans.

[Shermos]

Teaming up with EA is a deal with the devil, but in capitalism, you have to make these kinds of deals to survive. By doing so, Bioware gets the funding it needs to make its vision of ME3 is possible, but in return it has to do what EA wants. It's just the nature of the system we live in and that can't be blamed on Bioware alone.

But anyway my main problem with this thread is that the title and half the posts within are misleading. Origin will not be required to play the game and that reduces the possibility of private data falling into the wrong hands.

[lastpatriot]

Well, considering the concerns we all have over the security threats that Origin will have, outside of us all sending an email to BioWare, our best line of defense is likely to keep this thread going on a consistent basis. In theory, BioWare will have to respond at some point though I do wonder if they are hearing our concerns at all if if so, why they have not addressed them.

[Shermos]

I think the fact that Origin has been discussed in an interview is proof they are paying attention to the concerns raised and are trying to ease them. In my experience, Bioware is one of the few game developers which actually pays attention to the thoughts and input of the people which play its games.

It's pretty obvious to me that Bioware doesn't like Origin and has privately negotiated for it to not be required in the same manner as Ubisoft's DRM system. We're not going to see them come out publicly and say Origin sucks because that would mean an end to their partnership with EA. It's a balancing act between responding to customer and fan base concerns and corporate responsibility. We have to learn to read in between the lines.

Why perpetuate a thread based on misleading information? What good is it going to do? Why not start a thread (as some have tried) about Origin itself and why we are afraid to use it?

Modifié par Shermos, 09 novembre 2011 - 01:28 .

[DownyTif]

lastpatriot wrote...

Well, considering the concerns we all have over the security threats that Origin will have, outside of us all sending an email to BioWare, our best line of defense is likely to keep this thread going on a consistent basis. In theory, BioWare will have to respond at some point though I do wonder if they are hearing our concerns at all if if so, why they have not addressed them.

And to not buy the game!

[Feanor_II]

Shermos wrote...

http://www.joystiq.c...no-local-co-op/

The more I read from the horse's mouth, the more it seems that Origin will be required only to activate the game, not to play it. As I've said in an earlier post, I can deal with that and I suspect most people here can too.

I'm not a huge Bioware fanboy, but I don't see them as the bad guy here. I think they have people who genuinely look for fan feedback and have been quietly negotioating with EA not to force Origin on ME the way Ubisoft has a constant net connection on its games. 

So, yeah, can we say /thread now?

No, we can't say /thread.

No oficial statement from Bioware yet, and also in that article nothing is said about Origin, Mr. Houston says that it will require  Internet activation only at the first run but I think that that's not enough. That activation could be done with or without Origin (no light about it yet) and maybe the game needs Origin to be present in the system (Games for Windows Live anyone?) even if it could be optional to be connected to EA servers.

Nothing has changed.

[SalsaDMA]

Arcian wrote...

 I'm an idealist.

and

Arcian wrote...

Such is the life of peasants, always dealing in extremes.

You know... I think you just insulted yourself...

[SalsaDMA]

Kileyan wrote...

Vegos wrote...

Just to clarify, I don't believe they have evil and malicious intentions with our personal data, because that would be a bad business plan. But we have a saying here, "Good intentions pave the road to hell".

HOWEVER, they also have no business with it, and they're not even legally entitled to collect it, so it's a bad business plan already.

Pretty much this. I don't think even EAware is really collecting personal data on me for nefarious reasons.

However, in this age where several times a week the tech news sites and blogs are posting the hacking and loss of personal info of everything from minor forums to millions of dollar online services, I think it is a bad timing to demand the collection of any kind of info just to play a game. Let alone pretty much a blank warrant to scan everything.

Sure they promise not to do anything with that info. But EAware can't promise anything about it being stolen. Especially in light of Biowares very own forums being hacked not more than 4 months ago.

Seriously that is ballsy. Asking for folks to trust their service to collect tons of information, within months of their own forum servers being hacked.

In other news, the Steam Forums seem to have been hacked just recently. At least they kept seperate logins for the forums and the client to minimize risks, unlike Origin, ofc, where the same login/password is used in client and forum...

I figured it might highlight the VERY real risk that hackers present to any online endeavours.

[SalsaDMA]

Arcian wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Arcian wrote...

 I'm an idealist.

and

Arcian wrote...

Such is the life of peasants, always dealing in extremes.

You know... I think you just insulted yourself...

Sure, if that helps you sleep at night.

Tbh, anything from you have no bearing on my nights rest.

I did find it quite funny to read those 2 posts with a short timeline between from you, though.

Modifié par SalsaDMA, 09 novembre 2011 - 02:52 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Arcian wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Arcian wrote...

EDIT: This whole controversy is overblown. The only reason why you peasants are getting your panties in a twist over this is because you don't want anything to infringe on your ability to download things illegally. The concept of a company who can access your information is scary, but there's just so many legal barriers to what EA can do with your information that it's essentially worthless beyond getting you to stop pirating their games.

Troll much?

(Never mind being wrong about what EA can get away with doing with that information.)

Do you seriously think they will gather your sensitive information like passwords, personal information and bank account details and sell it to third parties? Because what else do you have to hide besides what you download illegally?

What on earth makes you think it comes down to "what we have to hide". 

If you had to give the manufacturer a key to your house as a condition of buying a new microwave, would you be OK with that? 

It's not about what we have to hide.  It's about what they have no right to access. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

Shermos wrote...

http://www.joystiq.c...no-local-co-op/

The more I read from the horse's mouth, the more it seems that Origin will be required only to activate the game, not to play it. As I've said in an earlier post, I can deal with that and I suspect most people here can too.

I'm not a huge Bioware fanboy, but I don't see them as the bad guy here. I think they have people who genuinely look for fan feedback and have been quietly negotioating with EA not to force Origin on ME the way Ubisoft has a constant net connection on its games. 

So, yeah, can we say /thread now?

No.

It's not about what we're told Origin will do, it's about what Origin could do, the changes that EA could make to Origin with no warning, and what Origin represents. 

EA, if you want my money, sell me a hard copy of the game, and then leave me alone.  Let me buy, install, and use your product in peace.  I want to pay a fair price for a good product that I enjoy using.  But insisting that I give you a back door into my computer is a deal-breaker.  Stop treating your paying customers like a cross between criminals and cash cows. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

Vegos wrote...

Just to clarify, I don't believe they have evil and malicious intentions with our personal data, because that would be a bad business plan. But we have a saying here, "Good intentions pave the road to hell".

HOWEVER, they also have no business with it, and they're not even legally entitled to collect it, so it's a bad business plan already.

Pretty much this. I don't think even EAware is really collecting personal data on me for nefarious reasons.

However, in this age where several times a week the tech news sites and blogs are posting the hacking and loss of personal info of everything from minor forums to millions of dollar online services, I think it is a bad timing to demand the collection of any kind of info just to play a game. Let alone pretty much a blank warrant to scan everything.

Sure they promise not to do anything with that info. But EAware can't promise anything about it being stolen. Especially in light of Biowares very own forums being hacked not more than 4 months ago.

Seriously that is ballsy. Asking for folks to trust their service to collect tons of information, within months of their own forum servers being hacked.

In other news, the Steam Forums seem to have been hacked just recently. At least they kept seperate logins for the forums and the client to minimize risks, unlike Origin, ofc, where the same login/password is used in client and forum...

I figured it might highlight the VERY real risk that hackers present to any online endeavours.

BINGO. 

Even if EA never does anything at all with Origin, it's the equivalent of installing a big freaking hole in your computer security for the sake of a game.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Shermos wrote...

Teaming up with EA is a deal with the devil, but in capitalism, you have to make these kinds of deals to survive. By doing so, Bioware gets the funding it needs to make its vision of ME3 is possible, but in return it has to do what EA wants. It's just the nature of the system we live in and that can't be blamed on Bioware alone.

But anyway my main problem with this thread is that the title and half the posts within are misleading. Origin will not be required to play the game and that reduces the possibility of private data falling into the wrong hands.

Every system is a collection of myriad small decisions. 

Any requirement for Origin to be installed is too much.  I won't install Steam, and I sure as hell will not install Origin.  There is absolutely no need for additional software -- Steam, Origin, download managers, security checkers, etc -- to be installed and run.  It does nothing to prevent piracy and does nothing to help the customer in any way. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 09 novembre 2011 - 03:14 .

[Kolos2]

Origin is just a practical manifestation of policy EA is so fondly known for; the moment Origin is confirmed i will cancel my preorded;

If i have learned something while lurking this boards is that the fanbase will take just about anything up theirs...even if it borders the legal; Not that EAware is alone here, its still amateurish in comparison with Activision

Ironic since  actions like those give moral and legitime reasoning to pirate groups 

Modifié par Kolos2, 09 novembre 2011 - 03:34 .

[billy the squid]

Shermos wrote...

I think the fact that Origin has been discussed in an interview is proof they are paying attention to the concerns raised and are trying to ease them. In my experience, Bioware is one of the few game developers which actually pays attention to the thoughts and input of the people which play its games.

It's pretty obvious to me that Bioware doesn't like Origin and has privately negotiated for it to not be required in the same manner as Ubisoft's DRM system. We're not going to see them come out publicly and say Origin sucks because that would mean an end to their partnership with EA. It's a balancing act between responding to customer and fan base concerns and corporate responsibility. We have to learn to read in between the lines.

Why perpetuate a thread based on misleading information? What good is it going to do? Why not start a thread (as some have tried) about Origin itself and why we are afraid to use it?

The only reason Origin is being discussed is because EA got caught with the EULA, forced to modify it and it still exploded in their face with the release of BF3 in Germany and the EU. Origin is a requirement as per the EULA, whether it requires constatnt internet connection is a whole other matter. Once the client is installed for the required authentification, even if it is only once, the scan will procceed as intended by EA. 

I don't think that is misleading, what is currently up in the air is whether constant internet connection is required, which will only make Origin more maligned than it already is. If EA actually learned anything from the Ubisoft debacle they won't do it. But, it addresses none of the issues with Origin's scan and data collection proceedures nor its terms.

In addition there is no partnership between EA and Bioware, Bioware was acquired, it is legally owned by EA. Likely EA, as with many parent companies, dictates finances, business decisions, distribution, legal, publishing, marketing etc. Bioware is a subsidiary of EA, it requires EA's approval for certain actions, design  directions, financing. Decisions whether to include Origin will be dicated by EA alone, Bioware could bring attention to the resentment felt against the client, but don't kid yourself into believeing that there is a negotiation going on between equals as partners. That's going to be up to EA in whether it decides the potential problems caused by Origin is worth the benefit.

It is not any issue of corporate responsibility or fan base concerns. It is a simple cost:benefit analysis. Whilst EA already knows why people don't like Origin. Otherwise their statement denying the assertion that it is for all intents and purposes spyware, but for a technicality, would not have been released.

Modifié par billy the squid, 09 novembre 2011 - 04:45 .

[_purifico_]

So like, has it been confirmed that Origin will be required to play ME3 or not? Cause I don't want to brouse this whole thread. One of the screenshots from the beta leak suggests it is.

[Mykel54]

_purifico_ wrote...

So like, has it been confirmed that Origin will be required to play ME3 or not? Cause I don't want to brouse this whole thread. One of the screenshots from the beta leak suggests it is.

No confirmation yet, one way or the other. You would think that if bioware was sure that ME3 wouldn´t require Origin, they would be fast in reassuring the players so they don´t cancel preorders. After all, bioware was very quick about other things to calm the players (like multiplayer or the story leaks). You want my opinion? ME3 will require Origin, and if they are discussing anything it is how much it will be required. Bioware will likely try to remain silent until the very last moment, before saying some ambiguous thing (like "you only need to sign up once") in order to trick people into staying with Origin. I have a date before i cancel my preoder, if before that date there is no public, official annoucement that ME3 won´t  require Origin in any way, i will cancel my collector edition preorder in a moment. I´m not going to wait until the very last moment to cancel it, Bioware needs to be frank with it´s players and not wait until the last second to provide vital (for us) information.