3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Shermos]

Sigh. Quoting the EULA.

"Technical Protection Measures. The PC version of this Software uses
Origin Online Activation content protection technology. An EA/Origin
Account, including the acceptance of EA’s online Terms of Service and
Privacy Policy (available at www.ea.com), installation of the Origin client
application (www.origin/about.com), acceptance of the Origin EULA, and
an Internet connection are required to authenticate the Software and
verify your license upon the initial launch of the Software on any unique
machine (“Authenticate” or “Authentication”). The serial code provided
with this Software will be verified during Authentication. Authentication is
limited to one EA Account per serial code."

This means that you need to install Origin ONLY to authenticate your activation code and verify the files, the first time you launch the game. After that, you don't need to use Origin ever again.

There you have it. From the EULA and from Bioware. If you are a person who is so paranoid that you're worried about Origin stealing all your personal information in one use, you really shouldn't be using the internet.

Modifié par Shermos, 12 novembre 2011 - 03:23 .

[Alex_SM]

Ok, wrong link first time:

http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas

Mass Effect 3

INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED FOR PRODUCT ACTIVATION. INTERNET CONNECTION, EA/ORIGIN ACCOUNT, ACCEPTANCE OF PRODUCT AND ORIGIN END USER LICENSE AGREEMENTS, INSTALLATION OF THE ORIGIN CLIENT SOFTWARE (WWW.ORIGIN.COM/ABOUT) AND REGISTRATION WITH ENCLOSED SINGLE-USE SERIAL CODE(S) REQUIRED TO PLAY

Now it's about see which is the newer version. 

Modifié par Alex_SM, 12 novembre 2011 - 03:30 .

[Shermos]

What this means is that to be able to play the game, you need the net to verify the CD key, and you have to install Origin first to do that. It's not saying that you need turn Origin on to launch it and run the game after the one time activation. I admit that the wording is ambiguous but you're misinterpreting, especially in light of Jesse's interview.

Modifié par Shermos, 12 novembre 2011 - 03:42 .

[xCirdanx]

Shermos wrote...

What this means is that to be able to play the game, you need the net to verify the CD key, and you have to install Origin first to do that.

Which is exactly what this thread and the other one was about, that the players don´t want to be forced to install origin.

Look, everyone handles this himself, but origin will cost them sales, they maybe make it up or make more money with seeling the datas (which for example is perfetctly fine by american law...), for me its either, Origin? Cancel CE. Or set up a new pc with a clean win and me 3 only. Or of course..the "thing" we are not allowed to talk off. EA really isn´t clever. This whole mess really reminds me too much of the first MP3. The music industry was too late, EA is to late, unfortunaly for us gamers, we don´t matter. (don´t get me wrong, i´m NOT saying everyone at Bioware doesn´t care but...EA is the owner/partner..the money comes from the shareholders people) Only our cash does. Vote with your valet thats all that matters.

[Alex_SM]

The same is said in Battlefield 3 EULA, and Origin is required to launch the game.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Even if Origin is only required for activation at first, that's not where EA is headed with this, it's just a stepping stone.

I encourage everyone to avoid the purchase any product from EA until Origin is dead.  If you consider the purchase of one of their products too important to pass up, then at least Sandbox Origin, etc, to the best of your abililty.  Write, call, and email EA to express your concerns. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 12 novembre 2011 - 04:02 .

[Shermos]

If people don't want to install Origin, fine whatever. I don't like it much myself. But my issue is with what people are saying in this thread, that Origin will be required to play the game after the first time activation. That's wrong and I'm sick to death of hearing it repeated over and over. A high up member of the Bioware team has said so as about explicitly as he can without pissing off EA. Had he not, the issue would still be up in the air.

Modifié par Shermos, 12 novembre 2011 - 04:03 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Alex_SM wrote...

The same is said in Battlefield 3 EULA, and Origin is required to launch the game.

So, just to be clear, despite what EA has said, you can't play BF3 without Origin? 


So why do people expect us to trust EA regarding the "only for activation" claim about ME3?

[didymos1120]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

So, just to be clear, despite what EA has said, you can't play BF3 without Origin? 

No, not despite.  The EULA just doesn't really address whether or not the Origin client must be running in order to play.

[Bostur]

billy the squid wrote...

Whoa, whoa. Hold on there. No it is not legal to do the same to games. iphones have been granted an exception by the DMCA as the jaibreaking allows users to switch carriers, it does not come under Copyright legislation.

In games You are given license to use the IP and software in a manner determined by the licensor or Copyright legislation. That is an entirely different point from jailbreaking iphones and the like, you own the iphone, you do not own the IP.

Actually it's a very similar point, modifying a product to use it for it's intended purpose. But yes unfortunately DMCA and the European Infosoc made some ugly law preventing users from cracking copy protection, even if they are otherwise allowed to copy the media.

License? What is that? That isn't mentioned in Copyright laws in my country. ;-)

I buy a copy with some limitations on usage, not a license.

[Bogsnot1]

SalsaDMA wrote...
You don't buy the games. You buy/rent a license to use them under the conditions given by the distributors/developers. This is why EA can get away with stating in their EULA that they reserve the right to revoke your access to any game you get through Origin.

From the very first paragraph in Origin EULA: "You do not own the Application."

Also of note later on: "The Application is licensed,
and not sold, to you for use only under the terms of this License. Except
as expressly licensed to you herein, EA reserves all right, title and
interest in the Application and all software delivered through the
Application (including all characters, storyline, images, photographs,
animations, video, music, text), and all associated copyrights,
trademarks, and other intellectual property rights therein. The License is
limited to the intellectual property rights of EA and its licensors in the
Application and does not include any rights to other patents or
intellectual property. Except, and only to the extent that may be
permitted under applicable law, you may not decompile, disassemble, or
reverse engineer the Application by any means whatsoever, or alter,
modify, enhance, or create a derivative work of the Application. You
may not remove, alter, or obscure any product identification, copyright,
or other intellectual property notices in the Application or software
delivered through the Application."

So no, you are not fiddling with your product when fiddling with origin or EA software delivered with Origin (which will be all new software as things are stnading now.) You're fiddling with their product, which you have a license to.

Edit: this is why your phone example fails. A proper comparison would have been renting a car and claiming you don't like the seat coverings so replace it, and pull out a spraycan and paint some flames on the sides of the car as well, to give it that personal touch. Next time the car-rental company sees the car you would then get a hefty fine due to misuse of the rental license you had as well as them revoking your right to use the car in the future.

It all comes down to the country in which the puchase is made. If the EULA isnt clearly available for the customer to peruse prior to the point of sale, then it can ve ruled invalid, and the customer has not purchased a licence, buit has actually purchased the product in question.
The old adage still stands true in smoe countries.
If it looks like a sale, and acts like a sale, it is a sale.

As a result, I dont agree to the EULA because its not clearly displayed on the exterior of the packaging, nor anywhere in store, prior to me handing over the money to complete the sale. Also, because I pauid for the product, it is now legally mine, to do with as I please. If that includes using a crack to bypass any included spyware, then there is nothing EA can do about it. Any attempts to punish me for doing what I want, to a product I legally own, will result in them being the lawbreakers, and not me.
Sure, they have more lawyers and deeper pockets than I do, but we have a few government departments which arent subject to lobbyist pressure, which will drag the infringing company over the coals for theit actions.

[lovgreno]

Curunen wrote...

*Pokes head in*

EA and BW, please make it available on steam.

*runs away*

I hear Steam was hacked lately so one may wonder if any of these online services are realy worth the risk at all. Almost certanly a small risk for most of us but it's still there. After all it's just games we can live without just fine.

A shame as I was realy looking forward to giving the developers my money to play Skyrim and ME3, but I'll do fine without them. Hard copies without suspicious and in some cases obviously risky software would however make me happily dance through the streets to my local game retailer with money in hand.

No pirating for me though, however you try to exuse it it still is stealing from my point of wiev. I expect money for the work I do and I therefore always pay for what I want.

Modifié par lovgreno, 12 novembre 2011 - 07:57 .

[_purifico_]

Feanor_II wrote...

Hey people, have you seen this post ME3 in one disc?!?

I've read this piece of new that appears on that post this morning but I forgot to post about (www.meristation.com/v3/des_noticia.php)
Well in there they also states the following:
El primer dato y más importante para los jugadores es que el juego, que funcionará con Origin, solo requerirá una activación online.

OK, I'll translate from spanish
The first and most important information for the gamers is that the game, which will run with Origin, only will requiere a single online activation

That was a very nice try on part of EA to calm the masses, but they still failed. Once again: EA - 0, Piratebay - 1

[Kolos2]

and Chris is still looking into it....

[Lumikki]

No sure what you people are so..

At the moment as many have allready sayed, Orign is required, because DRM of game is done with it (one time). How ever, if Origin has also data collection ability and it's acception is connected to Origin EULA. Then the Orgin is illegal product.

1. Origin forced to be used for game DRM with forced data collected. Illegal product in many countries.
2. Origin forced to be used for game DRM with or without voluntary data collection. Not illegal, just not recommended.
3. Game itself does the DRM check, while Origin can be as alternative option with or without voluntary data collection option. This is what we customers would want, I think.

At the moment we are getting the illegal product. Because game can't be played without data collection. Because when you do the DRM for Game with Origin, it also does the first data collection too.

What it should be that both game and origin shoud be able to do DRM check. Origin use should be voluntary for customers and the data collection should allways be voluntary, because other ways it makes the products illegal.

There is no single point force hard-copy buyer to install Origin too just for the DRM check. When people buy they games from shop and not as digital, they do it with their own reasons. Same as when customers buy digital copy they have their own reasons too for it. It's should be free choise for customer to do the way they like and not be forced one way or other.

Modifié par Lumikki, 12 novembre 2011 - 10:49 .

[Taciter]

xCirdanx wrote...
and "With a little over five months until its release, it’s a bit premature to know the exacts of the DRM in this game. However, gleaming through some internet sources gives us a fair idea of what may come." Fair idea..uhu..right

Nothing wrong with being proactive.. it was apathy on the part of the BF3 community that resulted in the recent Origin fiasco - as ME fanatics, we owe it to ourselves to ensure that our favourite franchise doesn't go the same way!

[Alex_SM]

lovgreno wrote...

Curunen wrote...

*Pokes head in*

EA and BW, please make it available on steam.

*runs away*

I hear Steam was hacked lately so one may wonder if any of these online services are realy worth the risk at all. Almost certanly a small risk for most of us but it's still there. After all it's just games we can live without just fine.

A shame as I was realy looking forward to giving the developers my money to play Skyrim and ME3, but I'll do fine without them. Hard copies without suspicious and in some cases obviously risky software would however make me happily dance through the streets to my local game retailer with money in hand.

No pirating for me though, however you try to exuse it it still is stealing from my point of wiev. I expect money for the work I do and I therefore always pay for what I want.

Well, it was hacked as Amazon has been sometimes hacked and some governments webservices are sometimes hacked, etc... anything can be hacked, total security doesn't exist. 

[Lumikki]

Alex_SM wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

I hear Steam was hacked lately so one may wonder if any of these online services are realy worth the risk at all. Almost certanly a small risk for most of us but it's still there. After all it's just games we can live without just fine.

A shame as I was realy looking forward to giving the developers my money to play Skyrim and ME3, but I'll do fine without them. Hard copies without suspicious and in some cases obviously risky software would however make me happily dance through the streets to my local game retailer with money in hand.

No pirating for me though, however you try to exuse it it still is stealing from my point of wiev. I expect money for the work I do and I therefore always pay for what I want.

Well, it was hacked as Amazon has been sometimes hacked and some governments webservices are sometimes hacked, etc... anything can be hacked, total security doesn't exist. 

Yes, allmost anything can be hacked. How ever, how you build system does affect what kind of damage is done when something is hacked.

Example to play games, why do we need to register some place in internet and give a lot of private information?
What information is really needed for company to sell game, we buying and playing it?

So, the previous comment wasn't that something can be hacked, It was about that THEY WILL get hacked and should we RISK our private information, when there is NO need for store that information into some internet databases. Point been, keep it simple and don't store private data in internet, if you don't have ABSOLUTE need for it.

Not everyone wanna risk they private information, so companies should not force us to take the risk with our privacy, when we know that their security for their systems is not enough.

Modifié par Lumikki, 12 novembre 2011 - 03:20 .

[lovgreno]

Alex_SM wrote...
Well, it was hacked as Amazon has been sometimes hacked and some governments webservices are sometimes hacked, etc... anything can be hacked, total security doesn't exist. 

True, and that is why we need to ask ourselves what we can do to minimise those risks even though that means some sacrifices. The question is, what risks are worth taking?

[SalsaDMA]

lovgreno wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...
Well, it was hacked as Amazon has been sometimes hacked and some governments webservices are sometimes hacked, etc... anything can be hacked, total security doesn't exist. 

True, and that is why we need to ask ourselves what we can do to minimise those risks even though that means some sacrifices. The question is, what risks are worth taking?

Well, to start with, someone ought to point out to the EA suits that having the same login/password database for both forums and game client is an unecesary risk.

At least steam had different logins/passwords. Word is also that they stored data a bit more sensible than Sony did when they were hacked.

[Abirn]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Abirn wrote...

Under the legal concept of fair use cracking a game you bought legally isn't illegal.  Distributing that crack to others that haven't bought it legally is illegal, but you have a legal right to use the products you purchase.  This is settled law.  IE Jailbroken phones.

You don't buy the games. You buy/rent a license to use them under the conditions given by the distributors/developers. This is why EA can get away with stating in their EULA that they reserve the right to revoke your access to any game you get through Origin.

From the very first paragraph in Origin EULA: "You do not own the Application."

Also of note later on: "The Application is licensed,
and not sold, to you for use only under the terms of this License. Except
as expressly licensed to you herein, EA reserves all right, title and
interest in the Application and all software delivered through the
Application (including all characters, storyline, images, photographs,
animations, video, music, text), and all associated copyrights,
trademarks, and other intellectual property rights therein. The License is
limited to the intellectual property rights of EA and its licensors in the
Application and does not include any rights to other patents or
intellectual property. Except, and only to the extent that may be
permitted under applicable law, you may not decompile, disassemble, or
reverse engineer the Application by any means whatsoever, or alter,
modify, enhance, or create a derivative work of the Application. You
may not remove, alter, or obscure any product identification, copyright,
or other intellectual property notices in the Application or software
delivered through the Application."

So no, you are not fiddling with your product when fiddling with origin or EA software delivered with Origin (which will be all new software as things are stnading now.) You're fiddling with their product, which you have a license to.

Edit: this is why your phone example fails. A proper comparison would have been renting a car and claiming you don't like the seat coverings so replace it, and pull out a spraycan and paint some flames on the sides of the car as well, to give it that personal touch. Next time the car-rental company sees the car you would then get a hefty fine due to misuse of the rental license you had as well as them revoking your right to use the car in the future.

Actually the better analogy to running sandbox environments would be saying you wrapped the car in plastic wrap so dirt can't get onto the car  (or in this case the car get the rest of the world dirty)

That isn't even cracking since you are not modifying anything about the game itself you are simply walling off the environment it runs in.  Virtual machines are even less "cracking" than sandbox because you are literally running it on a different machine.

I actually have my VM all set up for Origin games so it doesn't touch my actual work/game stuff I have on my "real" computer.

[TheKillerAngel]

Can a mod please change the thread title so that it is less misleading?

[RiouHotaru]

...Except there's nothing saying you install Origin just long enough to authenticate your ME3 game and then immediately uninstall it. Again, the EULA doesn't state Origin is necessary to play the game, only to authorize that your copy is a legally purchased one.

It's the same with any Steamworks game like Deus Ex. You only have to have Steam installed long enough to verify your game as being a legally purchased copy, then you can uninstall Steam or go over to Offline Mode.

So what's the big deal?

[RiouHotaru]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Even if Origin is only required for activation at first, that's not where EA is headed with this, it's just a stepping stone.

I encourage everyone to avoid the purchase any product from EA until Origin is dead.  If you consider the purchase of one of their products too important to pass up, then at least Sandbox Origin, etc, to the best of your abililty.  Write, call, and email EA to express your concerns. 

Why?  I never had any issue letting Steam do it's survey thing whenever it prompts me to do so, so I don't have any issue with Origin.  I'm not going to boycott a product I want just because it has a feature you don't like.  If it's REALLY that illegal, then the courts will take care of it.

[bleetman]

SalsaDMA wrote...

At least steam had different logins/passwords. Word is also that they stored data a bit more sensible than Sony did when they were hacked.

Sony apparently didn't even bother to encrypt any of the information. It was all in plain text, there for anyone to see. Valve at least did bother to hash-and-salt their passwords, and encrypt the credit card information . Even at the minimum of 128bit AES, that's still a few thousand years per credit card number to decrypt.

The issue with these kinds of things isn't so much whether the information you're providing might be hacked, but the state it'll be in if it is. I've no idea how EA stores theirs.