3140 réponses à ce sujet

[SalsaDMA]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Even if Origin is only required for activation at first, that's not where EA is headed with this, it's just a stepping stone.

I encourage everyone to avoid the purchase any product from EA until Origin is dead.  If you consider the purchase of one of their products too important to pass up, then at least Sandbox Origin, etc, to the best of your abililty.  Write, call, and email EA to express your concerns. 

Why?  I never had any issue letting Steam do it's survey thing whenever it prompts me to do so, so I don't have any issue with Origin.  I'm not going to boycott a product I want just because it has a feature you don't like.  If it's REALLY that illegal, then the courts will take care of it.

Courts don't act unless someone press charges, and pressing charges costs alot of money when you are moving against a company like EA.

So basicly: don't count on the law to safeguard you when there are a lot of money involved. And info selling on MILLIONS of users means a lot of money...

[RiouHotaru]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Courts don't act unless someone press charges, and pressing charges costs alot of money when you are moving against a company like EA.

So basicly: don't count on the law to safeguard you when there are a lot of money involved. And info selling on MILLIONS of users means a lot of money...

Safeguard me against what?  If they use data for marketing purposes, what do I care?  I don't regularly purchase from EA, or Amazon for that matter either.  I do most of my sales in actual stores, not online.

[SalsaDMA]

RiouHotaru wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Courts don't act unless someone press charges, and pressing charges costs alot of money when you are moving against a company like EA.

So basicly: don't count on the law to safeguard you when there are a lot of money involved. And info selling on MILLIONS of users means a lot of money...

Safeguard me against what?  If they use data for marketing purposes, what do I care?  I don't regularly purchase from EA, or Amazon for that matter either.  I do most of my sales in actual stores, not online.

That discussion have been to death already. Feel free to read through the thread and the links supplied in it.

[RiouHotaru]

I like the implication that because EA could abuse the data, the data will obviously be abused. Because obviously no one can resist temptation, amirite?

[SalsaDMA]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I like the implication that because EA could abuse the data, the data will obviously be abused. Because obviously no one can resist temptation, amirite?

You just displayed that you didn't understand why it's an issue.

Go educate yourself.

[psiasterisk]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Courts don't act unless someone press charges, and pressing charges costs alot of money when you are moving against a company like EA.

Didn´t the US supreme court recently rule that class action lawsuits could be contractually excluded, as they are (at least they were the last time I read it) in the english version of the EULA?

That, paired with the high cost of an individual lawsuit against a corporation like EA, would mean that an american customer would practically have no way of suing in the case of transgressions.

[Killjoy Cutter]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Can a mod please change the thread title so that it is less misleading?

There is nothing misleading about the thread title, based on what we currently know.

[Killjoy Cutter]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Even if Origin is only required for activation at first, that's not where EA is headed with this, it's just a stepping stone.

I encourage everyone to avoid the purchase any product from EA until Origin is dead.  If you consider the purchase of one of their products too important to pass up, then at least Sandbox Origin, etc, to the best of your abililty.  Write, call, and email EA to express your concerns. 

Why?  I never had any issue letting Steam do it's survey thing whenever it prompts me to do so, so I don't have any issue with Origin.  I'm not going to boycott a product I want just because it has a feature you don't like.  If it's REALLY that illegal, then the courts will take care of it.

Courts can't act on their own.  Someone needs to bring charges or file suit. 

As for the "little survey thing", I suggest your read through the thread in order to avoid speaking out of ignorance.

[Shermos]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Can a mod please change the thread title so that it is less misleading?

There is nothing misleading about the thread title, based on what we currently know.

That's crap dude. The interview I posted (again) yesterday clearly shows that Origin will not be required to run ME3 beyond activation. You're just interpreting the EULA the way you want to.

Modifié par Shermos, 13 novembre 2011 - 06:25 .

[Gatt9]

psiasterisk wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Courts don't act unless someone press charges, and pressing charges costs alot of money when you are moving against a company like EA.

Didn´t the US supreme court recently rule that class action lawsuits could be contractually excluded, as they are (at least they were the last time I read it) in the english version of the EULA?

That, paired with the high cost of an individual lawsuit against a corporation like EA, would mean that an american customer would practically have no way of suing in the case of transgressions.

We're back to square 1 again though.

First,  EA has to prove who signed the contract,  and that it was legal for them to do so.  Since it's completely impossible for EA to prove who signed the contract,  the clause is worthless.  Everyone and their grandmother will claim their 8 year old relative installed it,  and clicked "I agree",  and since EA can't prove otherwise,  the clause is void.

Further,  the whole thing is destined to backfire on EA even if we assume the clause is true.  Everyone just has to file in their local courts,  and EA goes bankrupt.  If all 5 million people who bought Battlefield 3 file,  EA has to send an attorney to every hearing.  5 million court cases,  x lawyer fees plus travel expenses means EA is done.  Even 100,000 people filing would be sufficient to wipe out all profit.

That's before we even talk about what happens if people start filing internationally.

Because all it takes is one person to file,  and for the court to find that EA's search is unwarranted invasion of privacy,  and we'll see more than sufficient civil suits to bankrupt EA.

Which is going to happen in the near future when the whole thing gets hacked,  because let's be serious here,  Lulzsec hacked Sony a half dozen times,  hacked Bethseda,  hacked Bioware.  Someone else hacked Steam this week.  It's not going to take long for Origins to be ripped apart.

This doesn't end well for EA no matter what,  whether it's death by governments burying them,  or death by customers burying them,  if they don't axe Origin in it's current incarnation,  they're dead.

[tangalin]

$!0 says the non-paying pirates get to play without origin...

[SalsaDMA]

Shermos wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Can a mod please change the thread title so that it is less misleading?

There is nothing misleading about the thread title, based on what we currently know.

That's crap dude. The interview I posted (again) yesterday clearly shows that Origin will not be required to run ME3 beyond activation. You're just interpreting the EULA the way you want to.

Nope. You're reading stuff into it that isn't there.

Did they clearly say "Origin will not be required for ME3" ?
No?

Then why are you claiming they clearly did this when they skirted around the issue in a way to avoid making any commitals at all? Their way of dealing with people asking about Origin is basicly the way they dealt with people asking about multiplayer.                        

[Feanor_II]

Shermos wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Can a mod please change the thread title so that it is less misleading?

There is nothing misleading about the thread title, based on what we currently know.

That's crap dude. The interview I posted (again) yesterday clearly shows that Origin will not be required to run ME3 beyond activation. You're just interpreting the EULA the way you want to.

I've already read this

"Will ME3 require an internet connection for each launching of the SP game, or will it retain ME2′s single verification method?

Mass Effect 3 PC will require the internet connection when you
initially launch and authorize it but then you will no longer require
the connection."

I think that you interpret that interview the way you want/like, fine they say that online activation will be done only at first launch. But they don't say anything more, hell, they even DON'T MENTION ORIGIN AT ALL.

That activation could be done even without Origin, but another posibiliy is that the presence of Origin on the system is mandatory (more or less like Games for Windows Live) even when activation is done (something similar to Battlefield 3)

That stament is too vague and you are jumping to conclusions.

[Shermos]

"but then you will no longer require
the connection"

That means Origin is only required the first time you launch the game. As I have said, Bioware can't say it any more clearly without pissing off EA.

[Feanor_II]

Shermos wrote...

"but then you will no longer require
the connection"

That means Origin is only required the first time you launch the game. As I have said, Bioware can't say it any more clearly without pissing off EA.

Again we go back to Games For Windows Live, to play "Batman: Arkham Asylum" you need GfWL to be installed (and even have and account), even if you are not connected, but it must be present at the system.

That stament for me it's not enough.

And also I don't understand what you mean "without pissing off EA", do you really think that ME3 team has taken a decission of this type without the full acceptance of EA? Of course EA knows what validation/DRM system will have so there should be no problem to speak it out clearly.

Modifié par Feanor_II, 13 novembre 2011 - 12:04 .

[SalsaDMA]

Shermos wrote...

"but then you will no longer require
the connection"

That means Origin is only required the first time you launch the game. As I have said, Bioware can't say it any more clearly without pissing off EA.

Wrong.

Again you are asuming things.

All it means is that you will not be forced to be constantly connected, ala ubisofts "drm of doom".

It states NOTHING about in which way ME3 will be hooked up with Origin.

Wether or not ME3 will continue to work once Origin is un-installed is not mentioned, and neither is any comments made on the data harvesting which can happens as soon as origin is installed on your system.

Do you have access to the code? Can you show that it doesn't make a check of wether or not Origin is installed (so they can feel warm and fuzzy inside at EA HQ) or they use Origin as an internal 'grant of service' to keep track of DRM stuff? No?

Why keep asuming things then and posting your asumptions as if they have been proclaimed by EA representives when they clearly haven't?

[Bogsnot1]

OK, lets break it down logically in order to stop this argument.

From what we have read from the EULA thus far, Origin (software, not to be confused with Origin account) will be required for the installation of ME3.
Therefore, Origin will be required to play ME3, as you cannot play it, without installing it.

Sure, you can uninstall Origin once the game is installed, but that is not the issue here. The issue is having to install it in the first place.

[Shermos]

For many it is the issue. People in this thread have been ****ing endlessly that Origin will be needed every time they run the game, which is not true. I am trying to clear up this misconception and I've made that clear in previous posts.

I'll repeat myself again, if you are so paranoid that you are worried Origin will scan all your personal data in one use, you really shouldn't be using the internet. Even if you've installed good anti-virus and anti-spyware programs on your PC, just connecting to the net puts you at risk.

People like to talk about having anonymity when using the internet. The truth is though that it's destroying traditional ideas of privacy and I don't believe it's a process which can be stopped.

Modifié par Shermos, 13 novembre 2011 - 01:44 .

[SalsaDMA]

Shermos wrote...

For many it is the issue. People in this thread have been ****ing endlessly that Origin will be needed every time they run the game, which is not true. I am trying to clear up this misconception and I've made that clear in previous posts.

I'll repeat myself again, if you are so paranoid that you are worried Origin will scan all your personal data in one use, you really shouldn't be using the internet. Even if you've installed good anti-virus and anti-spyware programs on your PC, just connecting to the net puts you at risk.

People like to talk about having anonymity when using the internet. The truth is though that it's destroying traditional ideas of privacy and I don't believe it's a process which can be stopped.

Why don't you go streak on some streets if you claim you have so little care about your private sphere...

[Travie]

It doesn't matter if Origin is used just once.

I don't want Origin on my computer... ever. Period.

[Alex_SM]

Lumikki wrote...
Yes, allmost anything can be hacked. How ever, how you build system does affect what kind of damage is done when something is hacked. 

Example to play games, why do we need to register some place in internet and give a lot of private information?
What information is really needed for company to sell game, we buying and playing it?

So, the previous comment wasn't that something can be hacked, It was about that THEY WILL get hacked and should we RISK our private information, when there is NO need for store that information into some internet databases. Point been, keep it simple and don't store private data in internet, if you don't have ABSOLUTE need for it.

Not everyone wanna risk they private information, so companies should not force us to take the risk with our privacy, when we know that their security for their systems is not enough.

Well, I don't think the problem with Origin has nothing to do with the chance of being hacked. I just don't want EA to have ANY of my data (even the most irrelevant) without asking me explicitly. That's the point, even if it was 1000% secure I can't accept that they just get it.

The problem is not with the info itself, but the point of they forcing me to install a software that automatically gets it. At least steam asks you about it: you have to go into the account propertines and say you want to participate in the hardware/Software survey. And even after doing that It doesn't look into random folders in the PC. 

Modifié par Alex_SM, 13 novembre 2011 - 02:31 .

[Alex_SM]

Shermos wrote...

"but then you will no longer require
the connection"

That means Origin is only required the first time you launch the game. As I have said, Bioware can't say it any more clearly without pissing off EA.

No, it doesn't mean that. Steamworks games still require Steam active to launch offline*.

*And in case people doesn't know, most Steam games can be played offline.  

[DownyTif]

Shermos wrote...

"but then you will no longer require
the connection"

That means Origin is only required the first time you launch the game. As I have said, Bioware can't say it any more clearly without pissing off EA.

The declaration from Bioware (your quote is part of it) means absolutely nothing about Origin. There is an offline mode. You try very hard to tell us we are interpreting the facts the way we want, you are doing the same.

[CenturyCrow]

I am buying a game, with my money to put on my computer. That's all I want. And when the Baldur's Gate series came out, that's all that happened. You paid your money and played your game. There were a lot less lawyers then. Game companies were companies, not giant corporations.

BUT in addition to my money, EA/BioWare wants to collect information about me and install software that has nothing to do with the game. This in addition to all the other limitations they have added to the EULA and TOS to the point where the user has very little rights. (This is not exclusive to EA.) The right to class action lawsuits has been terminated as well, so as an individual, you're left with minimal choices.

As it states in the EULA, don't buy/install the game if you don't agree. The opposite side of that is to ignore it all and just buy the game, as many will do, particularly the consoles users where it's less of an issue. For those who can afford it, a 2nd computer just for gaming is the ideal situation. A possible alternate may be to sandbox Origin or some clever person(s) may find an alternate solution.

It probably will be pointless to compain about what information Origin's software collects, because the code could probably be incorporated directly into the game and data collected as it does on consoles - with or without your knowledge or consent.

Most of us are not lawyers or engaged in law; it's rather pointless to argue (on a forum) whether or not the terms of the TOS and EULA  apply to you because of what country you live in, because you didn't read it, because of this or that, etc. These clauses were not put into the EULA and TOS on a whim. The part of the corporation that make these types of decisions are (usually) far removed from the part of the corporation and employees that create the game and aren't interested in your opinion. Corporations are not democratic. Corporations are about money and control.

I'm merely waiting for several things. For BioWare to officially state how Origins will be implemented with ME3. I'm waiting to see if Origins can be sandboxed successfully in the long term, since EA will fight any effort to minimize data collection.  If I can afford to build another computer just for gaming, etc.

I don't like the way EA has been strangling my rights over a game. While I'd really like to finish off what I started in ME and ME2, the simplest and cheapest way to end the abuse and deal with EA is to stop playing their games, period.

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 13 novembre 2011 - 03:32 .

[ColorMeSuprised]

Travie wrote...

It doesn't matter if Origin is used just once.

I don't want Origin on my computer... ever. Period.

My opinion.

This statement means nada, as long as they do not say "ORIGIN WILL NOT BE NEEDED". As long as I do not hear this sentence from any official source I will NOT buy ME3.


And I don't care about what Steam does or does not, I won't buy Skyrim and FO:NV because of Steam, better or not. I don't care. This is about Origin, and Origin just highly sucks.

Modifié par ColorMeSuprised, 13 novembre 2011 - 03:41 .