3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Tup3xi wrote...

The only grey are in Origin EULA regarding to data collection is this in my opinion: "as well as information about your Application usage (...including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage...". If that means other applications than those distributed via Origin or Origin client, then it's a bit borderline situation. Steam does exact same thing, though.

EA does also say that "EA would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it ever use spyware or install spyware on users’ machines."

Go figure...

http://www.escapistm...cal-Miss-Origin

By that I am pretty sure they automatically exclude their own spyware....with Origin they are trying to find out where you work, where your children go to school, what you have for breakfast, on what day of the week you do laundry....and to watch you sleep among many, many other things.....oh and they want you to pay them too.

If you haven't already now is the time to start looking at a 360 or PS3.

No, now is the time to look into not buying any games from EA until they change this policy.

[CenturyCrow]

Tup3xi wrote...
EA does also say that "EA would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it ever use spyware or install spyware on users’ machines."

Go figure...

First question to ask yourself: Are you buying and paying for a game?
Next question: Why does EA need to install software that collects information that has nothing to do with the game you want to play?
Next question: Why does EA regularly change their EULA/TOS/Privacy Policy?
The EULA change you mention was simply a wording change to pacify the German complaints that the EULA was against the law in Germany. Origin's behaviour did not change. The EULA still states that it will collect information.
Next Question: How come none of these changes in the EULA benefits the people who are paying for the game? In North America, you virtually have no rights with the EULA , other than you have the right to give your money to EA and that's about the only thing that won't change.

Next. If you read the current EULA, it refers to EA's privacy policy, which reads in part:
“EA collects both personal and non-personal consumer information.  Personal information collected by EA is discussed below in this section. Non-personal information is discussed below in Section IV.”

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 19 novembre 2011 - 04:43 .

[SalsaDMA]

So a small chalk up.

-Orign breaks into the private sphere with its scannings. [breakage of the private sphere, puts consumers under constant surveilance]

-Tying your games to Origin means your games can be lost in a snap by a forumban (Reports of unjustified bans exist, so this is no small deal) [suppresion of desire of consumers to speak freely due to fear of repecursions]

and....

-EA seems to be in big enough support of SOPA to actively having participated in agitating for something like it (http://www.gamepolit...upport-sopa-law). [words cannot describe this horror]

Now... I don't know about you guys, but to me this whole thing just starts scaring the **** out of me. There's no way in hell I'm ever gonna let EA near my systems with that spyware considered not only their actions now and in the past, but also their attempts of gaining political clout to basicly do what they want.

Had it been a government or political party trying those things there would already have been people on the streets marching towards them.

With the SOPA thing... What little ounce of faith I had left in EA vaporized completely...

Modifié par SalsaDMA, 19 novembre 2011 - 05:21 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

At this point, I suggest writing to EA and telling them that Origin and their active lobbying for SOPA have made it impossible for you to continue purchasing their products.

[The_11thDoctor]

I've written to EA several times and they dont respond. If they do, it's with something random that has nothing to do with the subject which only helps to ****** you off. I think Bioware is scared to answer us on this matter or they think ignoring it will make it fade away. Why else have we seen Bioware mods, etc in every thread except this one? This is the only thread that is strangely ignored, yet the most important one online. Some people want to ignore the problem or not discuss it cause it makes them uncomfortable, but it's a real threat to our rights and if this is ignored and things in games get worst, contracts get even more illegal, we wont have anyone to blame except ourselves for not complaining. It scans your entire hard drive and all your files, it goes thru all devices connected to you PC, consoles, phones, etc, they can sell all your info to whomever they want, decide when they want to do this if and when it suits them, etc. It isnt limited to EA games like it should be and just improving their games, but spyware they placing on your system and making you pay for it! If they want to pay you and ask you for permission to take a survey, that's one thing, but this way of getting our info is wrong and people need to wake up! Take charge in your life for once and stop floating thru life... When's the last time you went to a water park and while you're on a ride you have all the employees shifting thru your wallet, digging into your wife's purse, reading your daughter's diary, checking your phone records, etc just so you can go to that park and enjoy yourself? Went to an arcade and it does a background check at the door, Play a game board game and it looks thru your taxes, go to a movie and it runs you thru a metal detector, scans your body where it looks at you and your family naked for there amusement and has you check your shoes at the concession stand? That's about where gaming is going to head if this nonsense keeps up! Am I being a bit dramatic? Possibly, but so is EA's Origin. Why do I need to sign away my rights to enjoy non life-threatening entertainment? Im playing a video game, not sky diving over enemies lines, so why all the nonsense?

[Ghost-621]

Bioware, sticking your heads further down into your butts will NOT solve this problem.

EDIT: The best way to fight EA is to boycott anything with their disgusting logo deficated onto it. Bioware is the latest developer to be swallowed up by this piece of crap fat cat. Take a good look at what happened to Westwood Entertainment after EA gobbled them up, and the quality of their games before and after. Bioware's games from ME2/DA2 and beyond are going to follow in Westwood's (EA Westwood zombie) footsteps.

You're gonna ban me for saying you suck, EA? I don't use origin, so you can ****** off! 

Modifié par Ghost-621, 19 novembre 2011 - 07:00 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

At this point, I suggest writing to EA and telling them that Origin and their active lobbying for SOPA have made it impossible for you to continue purchasing their products.

Unfortunately regardless of letters this will not stop until EA's wallets are hurt and they will innevitably be when this blows over. Initially too many people will blindly walk into this either out of disbelief of the seriousness of the situation or not reading the EULA or whatever. Then there will inevitably come the part where EA will grossly overstep their boundries.....massive bans or legal action against players or whatever. After this will come the massive lashback....more reports of the situation in the news gathering more eyes on the issue and it will go viral to the point that people will buy no further games from Origin and it will become financially unprofiitable.

As far as the consoles go I doubt that EA's sales will be affected negatively there because the games ARE good(the BioWare games anyway) and privacy is mostly a nonissue there.....your account may be hacked but you can keep your credit cards out of it and there's not a whole lot of personal info to be found there, not the kind of information EA is after anyway. Plus if you're careful having your XBL account hacked is a formidably difficult feat.

[Ghost-621]

It's rediculous the amount of drones there are that will just use origin because of their lack of common sense or backbone. I'm looking at you, droves upon droves of COD players.

The best way to fight EA is to boycott anything with their disgusting logo deficated on it. Hey, EA, you gonna ban me for saying you suck? I don't use origin spyware, so you can ****** off!

Modifié par Ghost-621, 19 novembre 2011 - 07:04 .

[RoseLegion]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

How about they give us the choice of buying the disks and installing the game and running the game as a real piece of software, without the need for BS like Origins OR Steam.

That would be an easy way for pirates to do their thing, so it's not going to happen.

Pirates will always find a way to pirate something and thinking that Origin and Steam will be able to stop it is naive. It doesn't matter how tightly EA pulls the leash, in the end, the only ones who suffer from it are the paying customers.

Which is why I said an "easy" way: doing it that way would practically be akin to welcoming pirates. It's really a lose-lose situation; you're basically choosing between bad and worse.

Sales figures for The Witcher 2 say that's not quite accurate.  Nearly 1 million copies sold as of August 2011, and that's on a game without DRM of any kind (as of patch 1.1, and it's now on patch 2.0) and with no console release until 2012.  It's a demonstration of a financially successful PC RPG title in the current market that relies on product quality, customer support, and a request to pay for what you use as the "DRM".   Now while I'm sure there are people who have downloaded and/or installed the game without paying for it there are two things to keep in mind here.

• There have been people who got and played copies (without paying for them) of any game you can name in the past five years (and yes this even includes console only releases)
• No matter how many people decided to get/play the game without paying for it there are still enough people who understand how important it is to support developers if they enjoy their games that the game is a finical success.

In summation, the contention that a game/developer cannot be economically viable within the current market without DRM is demonstrably false.  (The by extension the contention that extensive and/or invasive DRM is required is also shown to be demonstrably false).

Bioware, I  love your games, I want to buy your games.  I  lost my copy of Mass Effect and I went out and bought a new one (this is after the release of Dragon Age 2) because I support the work you do.  I would continue to pre-order CE's of your titles even if you had not a single shred of DRM on any of those products.  By contrast I will not buy any titles that require Origin (or anything similar) to install and/or play retail copies of the game.
And for the record this is not rhetoric, I put money money where my mouth is, I  pay for shareware and donate to freeware if the program is good and I also don't buy any games that require Steam (or anything like it).  And when I say "I don't buy it"  I  mean on PC, on PS3, or xBox 360.  I have one of each but what titles I purchase is informed not only by the content of the programs but also the corporate culture of their producers and how respectful and reasonable those companies treat their customers.   I respect and amdire the content of your games, and I greatly enjoy your stories, but those are only aspects of the product you provide. Marketing, DRM, tech support, patching, these are all aspects as well and they are all relevant to an informed choice to buy, or not buy your product.  I sincerely hope that at the end of the day the decision is made to maintain the quality standards shown by your earlier products, and in this case that means no Origin requirements or anything resembling them.

Respectfully, but very firmly
a long time fan and customer  

Edit: One thing I forgot, I currently have per-ordered Mass Effect 3 Collectors Edition. If I cannot get clear confirmation that Origin will NOT be required for me to install and play my boxed retail copy of the game I will be canceling this order (inclusive of console orders as well) and making no further EA/bioware purchases unless the produce clearly and unequivocally will not included such requirements. You're a great developer, but there are limits to what I am willing to submit to for the sake of entertainment (entertainment might I add that I am paying for, which honestly should be sufficient. Set a fair price and I'll gladly pay it, raise it if you must, but lets leave it at that).

Modifié par RoseLegion, 19 novembre 2011 - 07:14 .

[Ghost-621]

If origin is required to play ME3 (and we all know it will be) I hope that the game is one-starred and pirated into oblivion, just like BF3. You don't deserve the profit if you're going to tie a noose around your customer's neck for buying your product.

Before a hasty moderator tries to ban me, I never said I was going to pirate it. I have no intention of pirating anything. I'm just saying what will happen if origin is required.

Modifié par Ghost-621, 19 novembre 2011 - 07:10 .

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Back from being banned...I will never abandon this cause, either Origin goes or my sale's revenue goes.

[Ghost-621]

Hey, EA, COME AT ME BRO.

Modifié par Ghost-621, 19 novembre 2011 - 07:19 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Ghost-621 wrote...

It's rediculous the amount of drones there are that will just use origin because of their lack of common sense or backbone. I'm looking at you, droves upon droves of COD players.

The best way to fight EA is to boycott anything with their disgusting logo deficated on it. Hey, EA, you gonna ban me for saying you suck? I don't use origin spyware, so you can ****** off!

I don't know. A few years back I was just about to purchase Spore from Amazon.com, but was ultimately discouraged by all the 1-star reviews, which were of course due to EA's invasive DRM. I don't think anything of value was lost that day.

If enough word gets out, sales will suffer.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 19 novembre 2011 - 07:24 .

[Ghost-621]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

It's rediculous the amount of drones there are that will just use origin because of their lack of common sense or backbone. I'm looking at you, droves upon droves of COD players.

The best way to fight EA is to boycott anything with their disgusting logo deficated on it. Hey, EA, you gonna ban me for saying you suck? I don't use origin spyware, so you can ****** off!

I don't know. A few years back I was just about to purchase Spore from Amazon.com, but was ultimately discouraged by all the 1-star reviews, which were of course due to EA's invasive DRM. I don't think anything of value was lost that day.

If enough word gets out, sales will suffer.

I'm looking for that article where game retailers in Germany were even allowing customers a refund for their spyware-afflicted BF3 copies. Day 1 reaction can hurt sales.




EDIT: Here's the link to Germany's reaction. I like Germans.

Modifié par Ghost-621, 19 novembre 2011 - 07:28 .

[elitecom]

Sgt Stryker wrote...
I don't know. A few years back I was just about to purchase Spore from Amazon.com, but was ultimately discouraged by all the 1-star reviews, which were of course due to EA's invasive DRM. I don't think anything of value was lost that day.

If enough word gets out, sales will suffer.

That's what I don't understand either. Back in those days, EA attempted to run this whole "validate your game through an internet connection" deal with Spore and Mass Effect. The community created quite a backlash against that proposal and EA dropped it(See Mass Effect 2 for evidence). And now they're on with it again? What would make Origin different? Well incredibly enough it's actually worse with its scanning of your harddrive.

[Sgt Stryker]

Oh yeah, anyone else find it ironic that EA chose to name the software that will likely do irreparable damage to them and their reputation, after one of the studios they were responsible for driving into the ground?

[Darth_Trethon]

If EA wants to diminish piracy they have GOT to stop punishing the customers that buy their games legitimately. With software like Origin all the pirates will keep pirating and more of the fans that were going to buy legit store copies will either not buy anymore or turn to piracy themselves.

The best course of action EA could take right now is to completely do away with all forms of DRM and spyware like Origin and just let people be. Their sales would go up greatly because fans would not be made to suffer for paying the retail price.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Just put the copy on steam or have it like ME2 DRM with no client needed, only a login.

I hate steam but frankly at least their TOS are reasonable.

[BloodyTalon]

Its sad that the world is boiling down to it being a corporate republic.

EA has been doing this for years in one way or another just its origins thing takes it to an extreme I don't buy many ea products apart from a few titles, even with origins being require for me 3 it is really making me having second thoughts about playing the old republic since origins is required for that also and you will have to stay connected to it at all times for a mmo so yeah its a scary world, but will get me 3 all the same and it probbly will be my last ea title though unsure depends on how things change if they do.

[Darth_Trethon]

Ghost-621 wrote...

I'm looking for that article where game retailers in Germany were even allowing customers a refund for their spyware-afflicted BF3 copies. Day 1 reaction can hurt sales.




EDIT: Here's the link to Germany's reaction. I like Germans.

Reading that article made me smile. I hope they keep on getting hammered HARD and not just in Germany but everywhere. There is still time and BioWare has not yet officiallly announce the use of Origin.....they better not go along with this.

[Darth_Trethon]

Talosred wrote...

Its sad that the world is boiling down to it being a corporate republic.

EA has been doing this for years in one way or another just its origins thing takes it to an extreme I don't buy many ea products apart from a few titles, even with origins being require for me 3 it is really making me having second thoughts about playing the old republic since origins is required for that also and you will have to stay connected to it at all times for a mmo so yeah its a scary world, but will get me 3 all the same and it probbly will be my last ea title though unsure depends on how things change if they do.

If you really must at least get ME3 for a console so you won't be affected by Origin....and whatever you do stay out of TOR if it uses it.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

I wonder how much money EA wasted on Origin and I wonder how many people will be fired when it flops (it will happen)

[Darth_Trethon]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

I wonder how much money EA wasted on Origin and I wonder how many people will be fired when it flops (it will happen)

There's no ammount of damage great enough for EA to suffer at the end of this. I hope they go completely bakrupt but that's more a fantasy that any likely reality unfortunately.

[BloodyTalon]

See the thing is I never understood how DRM was meant to solve the software pirate problem, more and more things like this makes me thing it was a cover to just let some big corps put software to spy and data mine for their products.

I mean please tell me I am just paranoid but really tempted to type a letter to EA asking them what they mean in some of their TOS. But the sad thing it seems this is the world we live in.

[Abirn]

Tup3xi wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Tup3xi wrote...

The only grey are in Origin EULA regarding to data collection is this in my opinion: "as well as information about your Application usage (...including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage...". If that means other applications than those distributed via Origin or Origin client, then it's a bit borderline situation. Steam does exact same thing, though.

EA does also say that "EA would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it ever use spyware or install spyware on users’ machines."

Go figure...

http://www.escapistm...cal-Miss-Origin

By that I am pretty sure they automatically exclude their own spyware....with Origin they are trying to find out where you work, where your children go to school, what you have for breakfast, on what day of the week you do laundry....and to watch you sleep among many, many other things.....oh and they want you to pay them too.

If you haven't already now is the time to start looking at a 360 or PS3.

Eehh... Do you honestly believe that Microsoft/Sony (or developers) doesn't collect ****loads of data? I don't believe that EA is trying to dig out your secrets or anything like that.

Microsoft and sony don't ban you from their products for saying mean things about them on the internet.