3140 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth_Trethon]

Talosred wrote...

See the thing is I never understood how DRM was meant to solve the software pirate problem, more and more things like this makes me thing it was a cover to just let some big corps put software to spy and data mine for their products.

I mean please tell me I am just paranoid but really tempted to type a letter to EA asking them what they mean in some of their TOS. But the sad thing it seems this is the world we live in.

We make the world we live in. Just like the Germans tore Battlefield 3 to shreds for using Origin we too can make a difference if we make noise about the issue and do NOT buy the affected products.

So please do us all a favor and drop the resignated sounding statements along the lines of "that's how the world is". The hell it is.....not while I have something to say about it and we all DO have a voice on the matter.

[BloodyTalon]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Talosred wrote...

See the thing is I never understood how DRM was meant to solve the software pirate problem, more and more things like this makes me thing it was a cover to just let some big corps put software to spy and data mine for their products.

I mean please tell me I am just paranoid but really tempted to type a letter to EA asking them what they mean in some of their TOS. But the sad thing it seems this is the world we live in.

We make the world we live in. Just like the Germans tore Battlefield 3 to shreds for using Origin we too can make a difference if we make noise about the issue and do NOT buy the affected products.

So please do us all a favor and drop the resignated sounding statements along the lines of "that's how the world is". The hell it is.....not while I have something to say about it and we all DO have a voice on the matter.

That is how it is in the USA since corps are people and money is free speech unless you are signing the things to stop such things, corps like ea will keep getting away with this stuf.f And I was being sarcastic

In reality drm has pretty much made software pirates more mainstream in the gaming community instead of outcasts ad odd balls and stuff like origins will depen the problem just hope one of you have started something to sign to send into ea about this matter it be more helpful then us sending in questions by ourselves or talking on a forum. If any of you have let me know.

[Darth_Trethon]

Low amazon ratings and such will have greater effects than any list of signatures because it will warn potential buyers before placing their orders and prevent sales.

If their sales are strong they will simply trash any petition no matter the signatures but hurt their sales and you got them cornered. Money talks louder than anything when it comes to EA.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 19 novembre 2011 - 08:25 .

[BloodyTalon]

Modifié par Talosred, 19 novembre 2011 - 08:51 .

[Xannerz]

I was thinking about buying the Mass Effect series for the PC in the future, but if Origin is required for ME3, well I guess I'll just stick to the 360.

[RiouHotaru]

Again, I understand people getting upset, but again. If Origin was such a violation of privacy and legal rights, why hasn't anything been done about it? I've yet to see any kind of news about action being taken.

[fightinfilipino]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Again, I understand people getting upset, but again. If Origin was such a violation of privacy and legal rights, why hasn't anything been done about it? I've yet to see any kind of news about action being taken.

faulty logic.  just because legal action hasn't been taken against something doesn't mean there's nothing wrong.

also, there are a host of OTHER reasons to not want Origin.  like have extra bloatware on a machine when Steam is perfectly fine.  or preferring certain platforms and wanting games to be independent of EA marketing hogwash.

[SalsaDMA]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Again, I understand people getting upset, but again. If Origin was such a violation of privacy and legal rights, why hasn't anything been done about it? I've yet to see any kind of news about action being taken.

My take?

Partly due to money involved (high level were EA are trying their SOPA thing too)

Partly due to consumer-ignorance and -disbelief that companies would stomp all over their rights if given the chance.


As history becomes history, people are unfortunately quick to forget the lives that have been lost and blood that have been shed to ensure those rights people take for granted. And when you start taking something for granted and don't pay attention to it being hollowed out, you start loosing them without noticing it.

And there have been newsitems about it in germany. Politics works slow, though, so they are examining things before they can give a final verdict. I do not doubt EA are trying to grease palms in the meantime either to attempt saving both their old and new markets (distribution AND info selling)...

Edit: Typo. SOPA, not SOAP

Modifié par SalsaDMA, 20 novembre 2011 - 11:12 .

[charmingcharlie]

Another reason why nothing has been done about it yet is down to the fact Origin in it's present form is technically a "new" service. The first game to utilise Origin fully is Battlefield 3 that only came out a few weeks ago. However even in such a relatively short time we have seen German users (a huge PC market) and German authorities expressing their concerns about Origin and they are investigating it further.

[CenturyCrow]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Again, I understand people getting upset, but again. If Origin was such a violation of privacy and legal rights, why hasn't anything been done about it? I've yet to see any kind of news about action being taken.

Pardon me, but it really doesn't sound like you care about this issue of Origin one way or the other.

Several links have been provided over these 97 pages; it's up to you to look them up.

Secondly. EA changed the EULA a while ago to circumvent class action suits. So who has enough money and lawyers to challenge EA one on one? The only reason EA changed the EULA in Germany is because it was contrary to German Law.

Plus there's some difference between BF3 and ME3. BF3 is primarily a multiplayer game and probably requires Origin for online play (I don't have it, so I can't verify). ME3 is primarily single player (based on ME and ME2), although EA seems bent on changing that. However, why would single player need or want to install Origin (which from other posts, is a rather larger download and install)?

Do your own Google searches. There's lots out there.

[Customz]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Okay, so we know Origin scans folders and drives, do we know what it's looking for? A virus-check scans everywhere, but ONLY looks for specifics markers (in this case, viruses) If something it scans doesn't have that marker, it ignores it. Do we know that Origin scanning a drive actually means it sends a list of everything on your drive/folder back to EA or is it only looking for something specific?

Just because it scans something doesn't means it's sending EA a list of everything on your computer. I feel this paranoia is rapidly spiraling out of control. I mean, the issue seems to be that it scans at all, but you don't even know what it's looking for. If it's looking for it's own games (ToR, BF3, etc, etc,) then that's fine. If it looks for anything else, then it's a legal issue waiting to explode.

But at that point I think people would start filing lawsuits or something. The fact there's not been one peep about Origin actually copying anything sensitive seems to suggest that while it looks in places it shouldn't, it's not actually reading every little thing you have.

Yes, it would be nice to opt out of it, like Steam lets you. But unless it's actually doing REAL damage, just peeking at your harddrive isn't really an unforgiveable crime.

Origin clearly scans for stuff that does not belong to EA, [sarcasm] unless these companies subcontracted EA to use Origin on their behalf? [/sarcasm] Once it scans your pc you'll never know if it sends the data, you can see if it's connecting to the internet but you can't see what is being sent.

[Cobra5]

I doubt anyone important is even reading this thread.

Either you put up with origin or you don't play bioware games, it seems.

I'm not cancelling my preorder over it. I enjoy ME too much to be honest. But its really sad that to play this game- well, to play it legally- I need to support such crappy, abusive business.

The banning from your own games thing is what gets me the most. Just gonna take it though, I guess.

Edit: Although, BF3 is the first battlefield I skipped. Origin and and this battlelog rediculousness is too far. I played the beta and that was that. I'll stick it through with ME3 since I'm already so invested from ME1 and ME2, but I think I'm done after that. This kind of thing really is going on too far.

Modifié par Cobra5, 20 novembre 2011 - 01:31 .

[CenturyCrow]

Cobra5 wrote...
I doubt anyone important is even reading this thread.

I'd disagree with that, unless you mean someone from BioWare or EA.

Important? Potential paying customers if they dump the Origin requirement. Maybe EA doesn't need paying customers anymore from all the money they get from selling their datamining results. Speculation on my part, though.

[Ghost-621]

I thought I'd post this again. People need to see it.

Here's the link to Germany's reaction to EA's spyware. I like Germans.

Modifié par Ghost-621, 20 novembre 2011 - 01:48 .

[Hawkin-s]

Hmmm, and I thought battle.net was bad. However, it looks like (from this thread) that they hold a candle to origin...

[Customz]

Talosred wrote...

See the thing is I never understood how DRM was meant to solve the software pirate problem, more and more things like this makes me thing it was a cover to just let some big corps put software to spy and data mine for their products.

I mean please tell me I am just paranoid but really tempted to type a letter to EA asking them what they mean in some of their TOS. But the sad thing it seems this is the world we live in.

There's this idea that gamers are desperate to play the game as soon as it comes out and the drm is there just to increase the time between release and cracking. There is some truth behind this though. First week sales are usually the most important for big titles and normally the more restricting the drm the longer it takes to crack (assasins creed 2) and the more complicated it is for end users to crack. And people are lazy, so if it's hard to crack they'll give up, and some of them will buy the game, if it takes too long and all their friends are talking about it or they really want it some will buy too. Most pirates are ocassional pirates, and do it mostly because of how easy and more accesible it is.

[Xannerz]

Ghost-621 wrote...

I thought I'd post this again. People need to see it.

Here's the link to Germany's reaction to EA's spyware. I like Germans.

Loooove it. 

[Ghost-621]

Xannerz wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

I thought I'd post this again. People need to see it.

Here's the link to Germany's reaction to EA's spyware. I like Germans.

Loooove it. 

If it does use Origin, I will personally take pictures of me shooting holes in a CE for the PC at an automatic weapons range.

Yes, I have the money for it. Yes, I will do it.

[Darth_Trethon]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Xannerz wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

I thought I'd post this again. People need to see it.

Here's the link to Germany's reaction to EA's spyware. I like Germans.

Loooove it. 

If it does use Origin, I will personally take pictures of me shooting holes in a CE for the PC at an automatic weapons range.

Yes, I have the money for it. Yes, I will do it.

While that may be fun for anger release the better course of action would be to cancel the preorder and not buy it anymore. BioWare has told us that we'll know before release whether they use origin or not. That will hurt them where it counts....their profits.

[Ghost-621]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Xannerz wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

I thought I'd post this again. People need to see it.

Here's the link to Germany's reaction to EA's spyware. I like Germans.

Loooove it. 

If it does use Origin, I will personally take pictures of me shooting holes in a CE for the PC at an automatic weapons range.

Yes, I have the money for it. Yes, I will do it.

While that may be fun for anger release the better course of action would be to cancel the preorder and not buy it anymore. BioWare has told us that we'll know before release whether they use origin or not. That will hurt them where it counts....their profits.

I had actually forgotten that they told us that we would know beforehand.

What EA spyware product am I supposed to shoot now?

[Customz]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Xannerz wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

I thought I'd post this again. People need to see it.

Here's the link to Germany's reaction to EA's spyware. I like Germans.

Loooove it. 

If it does use Origin, I will personally take pictures of me shooting holes in a CE for the PC at an automatic weapons range.

Yes, I have the money for it. Yes, I will do it.

If we all do that EA still get their money and Origin is deemed a success.

[Ghost-621]

Customz wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Xannerz wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

I thought I'd post this again. People need to see it.

Here's the link to Germany's reaction to EA's spyware. I like Germans.

Loooove it. 

If it does use Origin, I will personally take pictures of me shooting holes in a CE for the PC at an automatic weapons range.

Yes, I have the money for it. Yes, I will do it.

If we all do that EA still get their money and Origin is deemed a success.

It's been established that I'm not buying it, but I still want to shoot it.

....or something with EA/Origin on it.

[Darth_Trethon]

There is still hope. If what this article is reporting is accurate TOR will in fact not make Origin a requirement for the player.....it will not require installation or use in any way in order to play the game: http://torwars.com/2...s-role-w-swtor/

Hopefully Mass Efffect 3 will be the same and given that TOR is scheduled for a December release just 3 months before ME3 I'd say this does indeed make the odds of Origin not being used in ME3 look good.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 20 novembre 2011 - 05:17 .

[RoseLegion]

Customz wrote...

Talosred wrote...

See the thing is I never understood how DRM was meant to solve the software pirate problem, more and more things like this makes me thing it was a cover to just let some big corps put software to spy and data mine for their products.

I mean please tell me I am just paranoid but really tempted to type a letter to EA asking them what they mean in some of their TOS. But the sad thing it seems this is the world we live in.

There's this idea that gamers are desperate to play the game as soon as it comes out and the drm is there just to increase the time between release and cracking. There is some truth behind this though. First week sales are usually the most important for big titles and normally the more restricting the drm the longer it takes to crack (assasins creed 2) and the more complicated it is for end users to crack. And people are lazy, so if it's hard to crack they'll give up, and some of them will buy the game, if it takes too long and all their friends are talking about it or they really want it some will buy too. Most pirates are ocassional pirates, and do it mostly because of how easy and more accesible it is.

I think there is validity to what you say here, I'd like to point out the closing aspect of your statements most of all.
"do it mostly because of how easy and more accessible it is" I think this cuts both ways, if you're going to have DRM make it tough so it's not circumvented quickly, but that's if you have it.  You can't have 'other means' being more easy or accessible if you don't have DRM making it difficult in the first place.  Which removes most/all of the type of motivation you're describing from the equation and defaults it down to the simple question of "do gamers understand buying a game supports development of more games/more games of that type".  Obviously there's no 100% answer to this either way but I think the majority answre is "yes they do understand".  Anecdotally this is based on the circle of gamers I  know.  More substantively it's also based on the sales of The Witcher/The Wither 2 (which have both had their DRM removed by the developers even though that removal has gotten them sued by their corporate partners).  So despite the lack of DRM and the costs associated with legal action from some of their partners, these games are still both financially successful.  While this doesn't prove that gamers support the games and developers they love, honestly I think that it (when combined with the modding and fan groups on this and other forums) maks a very compelling case that not only will gamers do this, they already are.  Witness this very thread where in many people have said (in essence) 'I don't like Origin but if that's what I have to do to buy the game(s) I love then I will'. 

If people will buy a product that contains things they don't like to support and use it why should anyone assume that they wouldn't buy the same product if the aspects they don't like were suddenly removed?


oh, quick PS, this is not meant as a swipe at you Customz, again I actually think what you're saying is valid, I  just took it as a chance to elaborate on what seems to be a misconception within gaming culture right now.

[Lumikki]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Again, I understand people getting upset, but again. If Origin was such a violation of privacy and legal rights, why hasn't anything been done about it? I've yet to see any kind of news about action being taken.

Because modern society is created so that nothing happens untill someone sue's the company.

Normal people who know the issue don't sue, because LAW isn't anymore about justice or what's right, it's about who has more money.  Basicly consumers doesn't have enough money to sue companies, the risk of losing all your money because of it, it's too big.

Todays goverments are passive. It requires a lot induvidual customer complain the issue, untill goverments does something. Basicly sayed if there is not enough people making issue known, so much that newspapers starts print it, nothing will happen without it. Also it requires official complain to goverment office, even when there is enough noise.

Basicly sayed customers are in bad spot. Even when laws sayes that companies does something illegal, like Origin client software, we hardly can do anyting about it. Today everyting is build around money, who has it, control's everyting. LAW's has become tools to protect money and profit, not justice or what's right.

Point been, consumer can sue other consumers or very small companies. Company can sue other companies. But consumer can't really sue big companies, because consumers will lose the case because money differences. Law systems favors those who has more money, so to have real justice you need equal money base. Goverments is consumers only real hope, but get goverment to do anything is really hard.

Would you sue some billion dollar company and risk all you assets just because 40 dollar game? Exactly, that is what companies are counting for, we can't do anything and govermets are way too passive.

Why we scream in this forum?

Because we hope that company would have enough decency to do the right thing by them self.

SalsaDMA wrote...

Partly due to money involved (high level were EA are trying their SOAP thing too)

Partly due to consumer-ignorance and -disbelief that companies would stomp all over their rights if given the chance.

These two lines pretty much say's it. Only reason something is happen related Origin client issue, is because in German it got enough noise to get goverment interested. Even that is just pure luck that enough customers got mad related BF3.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 novembre 2011 - 08:08 .