3140 réponses à ce sujet

[CenturyCrow]

RoseLegion wrote...

Talosred wrote...
See the thing is I never understood how DRM was meant to solve the software pirate problem, more and more things like this makes me thing it was a cover to just let some big corps put software to spy and data mine for their products.

Customz wrote...
Only now are businesses starting to catch up with pirates' "distribution network". Before that piracy was the way to go, even if you wanted to pay you couldn't. Companies tried solving this with DRM, and they created the pirates that do it just to get rid of the DRM, with legitimate customers actually cracking their bought games to avoid all the bloatware and restrictions. Look at Spore or AC2.

On the whole it seems that gaming studios are facing something similar to what record studios started really feeling the bite of a few years back, technology allows some newer players into the market in ways that wouldn't have been possible a few years back.  However I think gaming studious are a bit more buffered in than their music counterparts in that it is easier to put together a band (just based on number of people in an average group) than it is to put together a development team (again based on warm bodies in the room).
 gamer friends to cooperate and/or compete in games the service is putting up artificial barriers within groups of gamers thus limiting/removing some avenues of social interaction.

It is a changing market, but a rich one. While piracy may be a factor, based on the EULA and EA's actions, they seemto be more concerned about 2nd hand sales. The special editions, collectors editions, DLC are things that fans want and are willing to pay for and there's no end to them for most publishers.

I think it's mostly about the corporate mind set of control. Just look at the EULA, TOS, Privacy Policy and now even SOPA. And in many countries, the corporations have a strong political 'connection' that results in laws favoring corporations over consumers. Consider that at one time, reviewers were able to provide reviews before the product hit retail or digital download. Why do so many games have software locks preventing them from being used prior to 'opening' day? Reviewers are under strict NDAs and can't pubish their reviews until 'day 1.' And something I'm just noticing is the disparity between the professional reviews and reviews by customers--that all too often the professional reviewers rarely mention any of the problems that users have or just gloss over it--as if they are getting a different version of the game than most people do or won't say anything negative that might affect a person decision to purchase.

Then there's the reviews and the ratings. I've read quite a few articles on rating numbers the last few days; here's one:

Firstly, a games publisher’s entire reason for being is to promote and sell video games. Once you accept this, all of the behaviour you see surrounding reviews from journalist, developer and publisher  perspectives becomes crystal clear.
Secondly, publishers will do anything they possibly can to counter the cancellation of pre-orders. Pre-orders are vital for the success of any bigger game these days, before word of mouth and any negative reviews have the potential chance to stop people buying it in the weeks following release.

And thirdly, we have the continuing presence of Metacritic as a metric for creative success.

www.vg247.com/2011/11/15/the-great-review-debate-can-we-find-our-way-back/

Another factor I rarely see anyone talking about, is 'competition.' It's a highly competative market with big money. Why do these games generally sell within the same price bracket, regardless of publisher or platform (other than indie games)?

These game producers/publishers often get good tax breaks (Canada and the US), so they aren't hurting from that aspect:
www.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/technology/rich-tax-breaks-bolster-video-game-makers.html

Companies like Ubisoft and Electronic Arts will exploit our tax breaks
for as long as it serves them. When developing workforces in, say,
Bangalore train enough skilled code-monkeys to undercut local coders,
the jobs will quickly migrate to India, leaving little of the creative
economy behind.

www2.macleans.ca/2011/09/13/grand-theft-tax-break/

Yet I don't deny them what they are charging for the games and some of the DLC. But why should I pay for Origins, something I don't want and has nothing to do with the game I want to play?

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 20 novembre 2011 - 06:24 .

[SalsaDMA]

ME_Fan wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Yes, well, we've had a steady and increasing stream of people who have pretty much acted as if all the concerns regarding Origin are just something to be laughed at and trolled.

Fair enough and understandable. But I'm not trolling, so far it just seems to me that Origin is genuinely underated and bashed by a lot of people here, many of whom haven't even tried it. But as you said they are scared off by the EULA. once it's installed  though, and ignoring what it's doing in the background, it seems like a generally good service, and a lot faster than steam.

Yeah, but sorry. It could offer me free sex with models of unthinkable beauty and I wouldn't touch it still precisely because of what it does in the background.

I don't do drugs either, despite some of the abusers claim it gives them "such an awesome ride"...

It's a free world, and you are entitled to sell your rights for a thrill. Just don't be surprised when some of us take rights that have costed lives in the past a bit more serious than that.

[Xannerz]

I do use Origin. I don't like it, nor do I support what EA is doing with it. It's just the only way my DA:O DLCs work for some reason. I bought the UE through Steam (I love Steam) and after a while the problem began with the whole DLC-server-authorization mishap. Ugh, that was ridiculous.
After many, many messages between me and EA support I was finally told to download Origin (didn't know about the spying bits at the time) so I did. And my DLCs were fine after that. I paid for this game, I just wanted to be able to play it. IDK why Steam wouldn't work (made me sad)... I reinstalled it through Steam, got nothing. DLCs still not recognized. Origin seemed to be the only option. :/ I was also given DAII as a courtesy since this problem lasted months for me, and $20 worth of in-store credit for the trouble, but I don't think I'll be using it. When I'm done with DAII, I'm uninstalling Origin. *le sigh*

Anyway.

ME_Fan wrote...
Fair enough and understandable. But I'm not trolling, so far it just seems to me that Origin is genuinely underated and bashed by a lot of people here, many of whom haven't even tried it. But as you said they are scared off by the EULA. once it's installed  though, and ignoring what it's doing in the background, it seems like a generally good service, and a lot faster than steam.

Back to my original point, I hope you're meaning that it's a good program were it sans ninja spyware. Otherwise, I'm taking this as, "Ignore it, it's no big deal." I prefer Steam over Origin. Spying or whatever aside, Origin's interface feels clunky to me and just... weird, IDK.

[karthikc]

Dealbreaker. No such statement in the Steam ToS.

[lucidfox]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Yeah, but sorry. It could offer me free sex with models of unthinkable beauty and I wouldn't touch it still precisely because of what it does in the background.

Because of that? Not because it would feel shallow and emotionless?

[Lumikki]

ME_Fan wrote...

Fair enough and understandable. But I'm not trolling, so far it just seems to me that Origin is genuinely underated and bashed by a lot of people here, many of whom haven't even tried it. But as you said they are scared off by the EULA. once it's installed  though, and ignoring what it's doing in the background, it seems like a generally good service, and a lot faster than steam.

This has nothing to do what services the company can provide through Origin client or how well the software works. It has everyting to do with data collection as how they do it. Many countries laws it says that the company has to ask permission from user to collect statical or private data and they can't connect that permission to ability play games, it's "not reasonable contract", like they do with Origin client software and it's EULA agreement.

Meaning:

Ability play game + Data collection in one EULA question = illegal contract. Company is breaking LAWS.

Player has to have option to say no to data collection and still play the game. Companies can't force people to give up they privacy just because people wanna play games.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 novembre 2011 - 09:29 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

I wish that were the case in the US, but evidently companies have to have "freedom" that exceeds that of actual human beings in this country.

[JaegerBane]

SalsaDMA wrote...

ME_Fan wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Yes, well, we've had a steady and increasing stream of people who have pretty much acted as if all the concerns regarding Origin are just something to be laughed at and trolled.

Fair enough and understandable. But I'm not trolling, so far it just seems to me that Origin is genuinely underated and bashed by a lot of people here, many of whom haven't even tried it. But as you said they are scared off by the EULA. once it's installed  though, and ignoring what it's doing in the background, it seems like a generally good service, and a lot faster than steam.

Yeah, but sorry. It could offer me free sex with models of unthinkable beauty and I wouldn't touch it still precisely because of what it does in the background.

I don't do drugs either, despite some of the abusers claim it gives them "such an awesome ride"...

It's a free world, and you are entitled to sell your rights for a thrill. Just don't be surprised when some of us take rights that have costed lives in the past a bit more serious than that.

I think there's a question of perspective, here. Yes, having this rootkit grubbing around your hard drive hoovering up data via methods of seriously dubious legality isn't good news. But lets not pretend that the sacrifices of the past are being dishonoured over this. There's nothing on my PC that is actually worth the effort and ill-will EA are sustaining to acquire it, and I seriously doubt there is any on the PCs of anyone on this forum.

Principle and reality, it seems. The principle stinks, but the reality of the situation is that it is unlikely going to do anything to you. So ultimately, its a question of whether you're willing to cut your nose off to spite your face. Not about who's died for your rights etc.

[SalsaDMA]

lucidfox wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Yeah, but sorry. It could offer me free sex with models of unthinkable beauty and I wouldn't touch it still precisely because of what it does in the background.

Because of that? Not because it would feel shallow and emotionless?

Sex with me is never shallow

But that's quite off topic

[Lumikki]

JaegerBane wrote...

I think there's a question of perspective, here. Yes, having this rootkit grubbing around your hard drive hoovering up data via methods of seriously dubious legality isn't good news. But lets not pretend that the sacrifices of the past are being dishonoured over this. There's nothing on my PC that is actually worth the effort and ill-will EA are sustaining to acquire it, and I seriously doubt there is any on the PCs of anyone on this forum.

Principle and reality, it seems. The principle stinks, but the reality of the situation is that it is unlikely going to do anything to you. So ultimately, its a question of whether you're willing to cut your nose off to spite your face. Not about who's died for your rights etc.

So, are you saying that because we have nothing to hide, we all should stand naked in the streets?
So, this is not about having something to hide, it's about every persons rights for privacy guarantee by laws.
Give one reason, why companies should be above laws?

Point been what you are willing to give up, it's your choice. How ever, what ever others are willing to give up or no give up is THEIR choice, not yours or companies. Every person has that choice guarantee by laws, so you or company can't make choices behave of someone else. Because it's everyones personal privacy and that means their personal choice.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 novembre 2011 - 10:55 .

[s17tabris]

Metalrocks wrote...

arr0whead wrote...

I'll still buy the game even if Origin is required (and it will probably be), but after ME3, I'm pretty much done with Bioware/EA.

then you give them what they want. once you have origin, EA has your stuff. just like killjoy said.
if you do so, you support EA and their spyware and they think origin is a success afteral. i also like to get my self ME3 but i dont support EA in this way.

If EA wants to make Origin a requirement for installing or playing the game, it will do so.  I don't think that it will back down just because the vocal minority complain about it. 

I would normally just skip buying a game if it will include spyware, but I'm gonna make this an exception.  I just want to see how the story ends.  Besides, I said that I'm gonna buy the game.  It's just fair that Bioware is compensated for its efforts.  I didn't say that I'm not gonna use a crack or some sandbox software

[CenturyCrow]

JaegerBane wrote...
So ultimately, its a question of whether you're willing to cut your nose off to spite your face.

Just trying to cut off EA's nose before it gets into my computer. I always allow BW to collect Gameplay Feedback because I think that's important info for them to collect concerning game design. It's a choice that's easily accessed in game-- On or Off.

However, EA's EULA/TOS/Privacy apparently allows one option: install the game with Origin or not. Assuming you checked out the EULA/TOS/Privacy before you spent your money.

[JaegerBane]

Lumikki wrote...
So, are you saying that because we have nothing to hide, we all should stand naked in the streets?

*sigh*

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Since I don't have anything on my HD that I'm bothered about EA knowing that means I might as well stand naked in the street and scream my PIN codes to every single naturist walking past. I even think I should make people tatoo their deepest darkest secrets on their foreheads.

</sarcasm>

The point I'm trying to make is that their is a disconnect between the principle of what is going on here (which sucks) and the reality (which is that origin's nefarious rooting will likely produce absolutely nothing of value to EA and waste their own resources dealing with it). Obviously there's the problem about principle of privacy etc, I'm just pointing out that its likely to be meaningless in real terms.

So, this is not about having something to hide, it's about every persons rights for privacy guarantee by laws.
Give one reason, why companies should be above laws?

This isn't anything to do with the point I'm making. You want to argue about that, find someone who's talking about it.

Point been what you are willing to give up, it's your choice. How ever, what ever others are willing to give up or no give up is THEY choice, not yours or companies. Every person has that choice guarantee by laws, so you or company can't make choices behave of someone else. Because it's everyones personal privacy and that means they personal choice.

I think you need to read my post through again. I'm not asking him to give up anything - I'm simply asking him to keep some perspective. I generally find it distateful when people are banging on about their rights and who died for what in this context when there's plenty of people in the world who *are* experiencing what its like to have their rights taken away.

Stripped of all the melodrama and hyperbole, this is about a company willing to adopt extraordinarily invasive approaches to gather marketing data, and whether someone is willing to put up with that as a price of playing the game. Thats it. Thats as far as his decision goes. Its got nowt to do with the survival of democracy and the fight for freedom and all that drama that was being alluded to.

[ME_Fan]

SalsaDMA wrote...

It's a free world, and you are entitled to sell your rights for a thrill. Just don't be surprised when some of us take rights that have costed lives in the past a bit more serious than that.

0_0 chill out dude. I'm not selling anything, wtf do human rights have to do with this anyway? the origin EULA says that it will look at stuff on my computer, I was fine with that, so installed it, it was my choice.
 

[Lumikki]

JaegerBane wrote...

You missed my point. Without society principles (laws) our reality would be chaos.

What you feel about choice or issue is yours opinion only. What we fight here is that company should give us the choice, not to be part of data collection too. If you are happy to give up you privacy, it's fine by me, it's your decissions. How ever, I'm not and laws says that I should have that choice about my privacy, but EA doesn't give that choice. EA has no legal rights to deny my ability play games, just because I don't wanna give up my computer privacy. Your opinion has zero meaning into my computer privacy, you can decide only your own computer privacy as choice. These stuff are defined by laws what creates rules and principles of our reality as society. You can break the laws and principles of society, but you also have to be ready for the consequences of that action.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 novembre 2011 - 11:37 .

[SalsaDMA]

Jaeger, when you consider the issue of precedence, it becomes anything BUT 'principle' and very hard 'reality'.

Also, when you couple it together with EA's usage of Origin to cut off access to legit bought games if you say something they don't like in an official forum and then add the stray info that they support SOPA, which would give them the right to shut down any non-official forum mentioning any of their IP's; then you start getting some very shady manouverings concerning market control from EA's side.

If I hadn't read these things with my own eyes from various newssites, I would have thought it was something taken out from a dystopian cyberpunk novel, cause the connections are that glum to look at.

[DownyTif]

ME_Fan wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

It's a free world, and you are entitled to sell your rights for a thrill. Just don't be surprised when some of us take rights that have costed lives in the past a bit more serious than that.

0_0 chill out dude. I'm not selling anything, wtf do human rights have to do with this anyway? the origin EULA says that it will look at stuff on my computer, I was fine with that, so installed it, it was my choice.
 

Your choice, I agree. But what if you MUST installed it to play a game you bought at a retail store... that you can't return because you opened that box? Now the "my choice" gets complicated. You MUST install something you DON'T want because you want to play the game you just bought.

[SalsaDMA]

ME_Fan wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

It's a free world, and you are entitled to sell your rights for a thrill. Just don't be surprised when some of us take rights that have costed lives in the past a bit more serious than that.

0_0 chill out dude. I'm not selling anything, wtf do human rights have to do with this anyway? the origin EULA says that it will look at stuff on my computer, I was fine with that, so installed it, it was my choice.
 

The right of privacy is a human right, mate.

Destruction of the right of privacy is an important tool used by fascistic groups/individuals to ensure control of the masses. History shows all too well how bad things can and eventually will go when people have no privacy left.

It starts out with what currently have or don't have to hide. Then it starts affecting your decisions in subtle ways so you make sure you don't somehow 'transgress' with stuff, and then it moves on to you making choices based on what might be seen as a transgression and then the blurriness continues untill you are always in doubt wether you are doing something wrong at any given moment, irregardless of wether you actually are or aren't.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

The fact that SW:ToR has been announced that it won't be Origin exclusive gives me hope that Mass Effect 3 won't be either.

[Alpha Bootis]

I haven't yet had the time to check out the entire topic but considering the discussion beeing waged here i stand on the simple assumption Mass Effect 3 will require Origin? This would bum me out big time. I didn't play BF3 yet because of this, regardless of the fact that im a huge Battlefield fanatic.

Modifié par Alpha Bootis, 20 novembre 2011 - 11:42 .

[Lumikki]

ME_Fan wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

It's a free world, and you are entitled to sell your rights for a thrill. Just don't be surprised when some of us take rights that have costed lives in the past a bit more serious than that.

0_0 chill out dude. I'm not selling anything, wtf do human rights have to do with this anyway? the origin EULA says that it will look at stuff on my computer, I was fine with that, so installed it, it was my choice.
 

It's your choice like you sayed.

How ever, other people should have also choice to say "no thanks" for data collection and still play the game. That's writen in laws as human rights. Like you have rights to say yes to data collection and be fine by it. How ever, EA doesn't allow the "No thanks" choice at all, that's why this hole topic exists.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 novembre 2011 - 11:47 .

[Alpha Bootis]

Lumikki wrote...

ME_Fan wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

It's a free world, and you are entitled to sell your rights for a thrill. Just don't be surprised when some of us take rights that have costed lives in the past a bit more serious than that.

0_0 chill out dude. I'm not selling anything, wtf do human rights have to do with this anyway? the origin EULA says that it will look at stuff on my computer, I was fine with that, so installed it, it was my choice.
 

It's your choise like you sayed.

How ever, other people should have also choice to say "no thanks" for data collection and still play the game. That's writen in laws as human rights. Like you have rights to say yes to data collection and be fine by it. How ever, EA doesn't allow the "No thanks" choice at all, that's why this hole topic exists.

I don't think its your fundemental right to play this game without additional software as its EA's software and therefore theire call in what additional software would be required to correctly play this game. 
Regardless of this ofcourse i stress that ME3 should be sold without any arbitrairy software especially if it comes with horrific terms of usage that portray a blatant disregard for one's privacy.

Modifié par Alpha Bootis, 20 novembre 2011 - 11:51 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Actually in several European countries, it's illegal for the provider of a product or service to make provision of that product or service contigent upon the buyer surrendering information not directly related to the provision of that product or service.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 20 novembre 2011 - 11:51 .

[Alpha Bootis]

But its very difficult to actually factually say its one way or the other. If EA states ME3's functions are designed around Origin making it a fundemental part in its mechanics, i don't think anybody can tell them off even though we all know its a load of horsedung.

I am from the Netherlands so i know what you are on about i think. But the same thing is going on with Apple's iPod wich is beeing sold here regardless. (referring to the required use of iTunes)

Modifié par Alpha Bootis, 20 novembre 2011 - 11:55 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

It's absolutely obvious that there's no need for a game to require your personal data or go snooping around your hard drive.