108 réponses à ce sujet

[naughty99]

Sister Helen wrote...

I am convinced that the days where you can physically hold a game in your hand are nearing an end.

I dont have any optical drive in my laptop and the very last game I "held in my hand" was probably something like Zelda II for 8-bit NES or some PC strategy game from the 80s/90s that came in a box of floppy disks. 

Modifié par naughty99, 14 octobre 2011 - 07:33 .

[Robhuzz]

v_Zalem wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

SWTOR, as an MMO, will have its own MP client and sign-in procedure, which will probably be the reason why it doesnt require it.

However, its worth noting that you still use your Origin Account/password to play SWTOR. (Same one you use to post here)

ME3 will definately require using your Origin account as well. But so did ME2. (Just wasn't called that at the time) Whether they use the Origin App or just do it within game like DA/ME games have in the past is the real question.

I sincerely hope that's not the case. Oh how I miss the days of purchasing a game (a complete game from the get go), installing a game, simply playing it without worrying about a retarded client, useless and pointless DRM, etc. I want those days back (pipe dream right?).

It is not the case. You use a SWTOR account / password to play the game, the same you use to access your profile, forums etc on the SWTOR website. It's completely seperate from a normal EA account thankfully.

On topic of Origin: If it's in some way required for SP as well, I sure hope it's only required to authenticate your copy of the game so I can install Origin, Install ME3 then quickly remove Origin and play the game. If Origin is even required to actually run ME3 then it looks way too much like one of those 'always online' DRMs. I refuse to even think about going through that crap...

Modifié par Robhuzz, 14 octobre 2011 - 08:11 .

[naughty99]

Robhuzz wrote...

On topic of Origin: If it's in some way required for SP as well, I sure hope it's only required to authenticate your copy of the game so I can install Origin, Install ME3 then quickly remove Origin and play the game. If Origin is even required to actually run ME3 then it looks way too much like one of those 'always online' DRMs. I refuse to even think about going through that crap...

I have Origin for ME2 and DA2. I'm not 100% certain, but it seems that following the initial installation, I can play both games without Origin running in the background. However, I doubt they will run if you completely uninstall Origin and you probably need to have Origin running in order to make use of DLC.

Certainly, since ME3 has a multiplayer component, it seems that you would need to have Origin running to connect to the server.

I used to have EADM (purchased DA:O and DA:Awakenings via EA Download manager), however this has been updated to Origin. I haven't tried downloading and installing DA:O or DA:A again, but I imagine it will require Origin to be running in order to re-install these games.

In any case, I was pleasantly surprised to see that Origin is not a resource hog and when you close the program there aren't residual memory processes going on. It's comparable to Steam in terms of download speed.

Modifié par naughty99, 14 octobre 2011 - 08:21 .

[billy the squid]

Another chap did some preliminary tests on Origin, here's what he found, It's not mine so, any questions I will be of only limited help with. Some of the other tech savy chaps on here may be of more help than me. Have a look, what do you chaps think? I still remain unsure if it can send information at a later date etc. So I honestly unsure of what the program actually gets up to.


After installing Origin I started it up with Process Monitor running as well. It recorded origin accessing various EA folders on the C drive and registry keys relating to EA and system stuff.

I did a search on its registry access and I noticed that it did NOT access the following keys (commonly used by the system to list the programs installed on the computer):
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESOFTWAREMicrosoftWindowsCurrentVersionUninstall
SOFTWAREMicrosoftWindowsCurrentVersionInstallerUserData
HKUUSER-SID-HERESoftwareMicrosoftInstallerProducts
HKLMSoftwareMicrosoftWindowsCurrentVersionInstallerUserData
HKLMSoftware****sInstallerProducts
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESOFTWAREWow6432NodeMicrosoftWindowsCurrentVersionUninstall
HKLMSoftwareWow6432NodeMicrosoftWindowsCurrentVersionUninstall
HKCUSoftware

I also searched and found that Origin did not access any keys at all containing the word "Uninstall".

Folder and file access showed Origin accessing mostly EA and system related stuff although it did access ALL of the folders and most if not all files in the ProgramData folder. Within these folders it even accessed icon files, Robosoft search dump files and some other miscellanous stuff which seemed a bit strange.

Origin also opened Xfire.ini which does contain a list of detected installed games as well as xfire_games.ini which contains a list of all games that XFire can detect.

I searched all the logs and couldn't find anything about Origin accessing folders or registry keys relating to my legitimate Battlefield 2 installation, and the game itself worked fine afterwards so it doesn't seem to interfere with other EA games (unless they are perhaps part of origin itself).

I searched the file and registry logs and found that Origin did not access any values containing the word "browser", "Internet Explorer", "Steam", "Valve" or "Firefox" (my default browser) except for a couple of HTTPshellopencommand(Default) registry entries that indicate what is the default browser for the system. It also queried the registry entries Internet ExplorerSecuritySafety Warning Level and Internet ExplorerSecurity which seem to indicate what security level IE is running on.

The Wireshark network log showed Origin communicating with several EA servers, though from what I could tell it was mostly sending HTTP GET requests and sending some sort of encrypted information to them.

While Origin was starting up & checking files it utilized 0% of the Internet connection. There was a tiny spike of internet utilization when I logged into my Origin account but after leaving it for a few minutes there was no more Internet activity. This would indicate that although it did check/open everything in the ProgramData folder there's no way it could have provided all that detailed information to the EA servers without a massive spike in Internet usage.

Origin did not appear to install or activate any additional services when it was installed or when it started up.

Conclusion:

From what I can see Origin does act a bit suspiciously as it checks everything in the ProgramData folder and I can't tell for certain what data it sends to the EA servers, however it does appear to be mostly benign. Given its tiny amount of Internet utilization when logging in (barely half a megabit per second for a couple of seconds) it would appear to not send that much information to EA, especially since my ProgramData folder is 4.25GB and contains 211000 files in 655 folders. From looking at it's activities Origin seems sloppily programmed and badly implemented more so than anything else.

It doesn't appear to use steam or common registry keys to get a list of other programs on the computer however it does access XFire files which show what games XFire detected on your computer. It doesn't appear to access the game folders or registry keys of the games themselves though. It does however check to see what's in the ProgramData folder

I suppose you could remove the detected game info in Xfire.ini before starting Origin and hide or move the other stuff in the ProgramData folder to stop that stuff from being accessed.

It also doesn't appear to go through your browsing history or check much of your browser stuff except for checking what the default browser is and Internet Explorer's security level.

Modifié par billy the squid, 14 octobre 2011 - 08:38 .

[Bogsnot1]

I'm going to be doing some testing with running Origin, and some games, through a Virtual Machine, either using Virtualbox, or VMware, both of which are free VM packages.

For those who are unaware of what a VM is, its like this.
You run up the VM client, and once you have initially configured it, it contains its own unique Windows build and software setup. Anything that happens inside that VM only has access to whatever is inside that VM.
In other words, run Origin inside a VM, and it cannot get out to look at what you do on your normal machine, it can only look at what is inside the VM. If you only use that VM for gaming with Origin based products, then all it will be able to snoop on, is your hardware specs, Windows version, and Origin-based games.

I had intended to do this over the next few days or a week, but following a power outage last night, my system is blue-screening like crazy and isnt at its most stable. 

[billy the squid]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

I'm going to be doing some testing with running Origin, and some games, through a Virtual Machine, either using Virtualbox, or VMware, both of which are free VM packages.

....

I had intended to do this over the next few days or a week, but following a power outage last night, my system is blue-screening like crazy and isnt at its most stable. 

Ooh that's not nice, but thanks forrunning the tests with Origin, some people have talked about sandibox, but I think they had problems with the net connection. It''ll be interesting to see how your test goes.

[zweistein_J]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

I'm going to be doing some testing with running Origin, and some games, through a Virtual Machine, either using Virtualbox, or VMware, both of which are free VM packages.

For those who are unaware of what a VM is, its like this.
You run up the VM client, and once you have initially configured it, it contains its own unique Windows build and software setup. Anything that happens inside that VM only has access to whatever is inside that VM.
In other words, run Origin inside a VM, and it cannot get out to look at what you do on your normal machine, it can only look at what is inside the VM. If you only use that VM for gaming with Origin based products, then all it will be able to snoop on, is your hardware specs, Windows version, and Origin-based games.

I had intended to do this over the next few days or a week, but following a power outage last night, my system is blue-screening like crazy and isnt at its most stable. 

thnx a lot for this info.. highly appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!

[zweistein_J]

btw wasnt there a locked thread with liek 50 pages or sth about ME3 co-op and wether origin was required to be installed or not?

found it: http://social.biowar...3/index/8185455

Modifié par zweistein_J, 15 octobre 2011 - 03:15 .

[anzolino]

Bogsnot1, do you have the possibilty to use a proxy server like spikeproxy (for checking the encrypted data like man in the middle)?

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

zweistein_J wrote...

btw wasnt there a locked thread with liek 50 pages or sth about ME3 co-op and wether origin was required to be installed or not?

found it: http://social.biowar...3/index/8185455

Yes,, I created this one after that one was locked.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

I'm going to be doing some testing with running Origin, and some games, through a Virtual Machine, either using Virtualbox, or VMware, both of which are free VM packages.

For those who are unaware of what a VM is, its like this.
You run up the VM client, and once you have initially configured it, it contains its own unique Windows build and software setup. Anything that happens inside that VM only has access to whatever is inside that VM.
In other words, run Origin inside a VM, and it cannot get out to look at what you do on your normal machine, it can only look at what is inside the VM. If you only use that VM for gaming with Origin based products, then all it will be able to snoop on, is your hardware specs, Windows version, and Origin-based games.

I had intended to do this over the next few days or a week, but following a power outage last night, my system is blue-screening like crazy and isnt at its most stable. 

Thanks for all yours and Billy's work on this. Much useful information.

I hope your system can sort itself out!

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

@billy the squid

Interesting info. I checked my program data folder and there isn't really much there. At least on my C drive. I have other games installed on other drives. I wonder if it will look there too?

I don't use Xfire, so no worry there for me, I guess

[charmingcharlie]

I thought I would post this in here since it is about Origin generally.  It seems EA is "aware" that not a hell of a lot of people like Origin (well colour me shocked).  The COO of EA , Peter Moore basically said "yeah not a lot of people like Origin right now" in a speech.  You can watch the speech here :-

http://uk.gamespot.c...ith-peter-moore

You have to sit through a lot of bull to hear him say it, but he says it at the 9 minute mark.  So at least we can take comfort in knowing that EA is "aware" of the fact PC gamers despise Origin.  The problem is they are talking about making it "better" not getting rid of it.

Modifié par charmingcharlie, 16 octobre 2011 - 01:38 .

[Lukertin]

Jarys wrote...

Jeez. Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? There have been enough lawsuits over privacy violations that a company the size of EA would not put itself in a position to end up in the courts due to selling someone's personal information. I actually read the EULA, and it specifically states the the data collected is for internal use only.

You clearly didn't read the EULA, because the EULA specifically states that you waive your right to bring a lawsuit, or join a class action, against EA for any dispute arising out of the EULA. This is perfectly legal by the way, so no luck trying to circumvent that clause.

If you are terrified of limited monitoring, then perhaps the information age is not for you. Do you hide your face every time you enter a public building or public transit? It's all recorded. Did you know your internet provider can monitor every connection you make? Did you know your cellphone company knows every phone number you've called?

I'm not terrified of limited monitoring. I have no interest in giving certain information I don't want to give to an entity I don't trust. It's necessary that my ISP knows what sites I go to and how I use the internet in order to provide me with Internet service. Same for my cell phone provider. They are also required, by law, to retain that data for a set period of time. It is not necessary to have Origin in order to play a computer game. All I need to play a computer game, is the damn computer game, and a computer with hardware capable of running it.

I don't trust anything that does a general blanket monitor on what software I install on my computer, and reports how I use that software. I don't trust anything that scans my entire hard drive looking for that software, because applications which do that are also known as Trojan Houses, malware, and are the very definition of spyware.

I personally hope that Origin is required for ME3, and it likely will be. If you truly enjoy the series (which you do, considering the number of posts you've made on this), then you will play it anyways, especially if the reviews are good (regardless of how much you may protest it now. I've seen hundreds of posts similar to this over the years as different DRM systems are tested). What do you truly have to hide that you would forfeit your personal pleasure (playing a new awesome game, ME3, DAIII, hell, likely everything EA releases from 2012 onwards) for?

I'm lucky I started out ME on the 360. However, any other game released by EA for the PC I will never buy so long as the EULA stays in its current form. I may not even buy games for the 360 anymore in lieu of the PC because of the price differential, and the fact that most of my gaming time is now devoted to Starcraft2. I.e., I am in position to completely boycott EA on this ground alone, and I will encourage others to do the same.

EDIT : From the looks of Origin's layout, it may be a similar to a steam clone, in which case the system would need to be on to even launch the game, let alone play it. A good plan, to be perfectly honest, especially if it works on a system similar to DA2 or ME2 in which you can disconnect partway through and it does not throw you out of the game (of course the login would become mandatory instead of optional in the newer games, but the system still stands).

I no longer support Steam as content delivery for reasons similar to why I will not support Origin. (user monitoring isn't the reason-- Steam's user monitoring terms are actually reasonable). Tying all game licenses purchased through Steam to your steam account is atrocious, and Origin likely does the exact same thing from what I have read. I will not support any such system of distribution or control.

Modifié par Lukertin, 16 octobre 2011 - 04:39 .

[v_Zalem]

Lukertin wrote...

Jarys wrote...

Jeez. Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? There have been enough lawsuits over privacy violations that a company the size of EA would not put itself in a position to end up in the courts due to selling someone's personal information. I actually read the EULA, and it specifically states the the data collected is for internal use only.

You clearly didn't read the EULA, because the EULA specifically states that you waive your right to bring a lawsuit, or join a class action, against EA for any dispute arising out of the EULA. This is perfectly legal by the way, so no luck trying to circumvent that clause.

If you are terrified of limited monitoring, then perhaps the information age is not for you. Do you hide your face every time you enter a public building or public transit? It's all recorded. Did you know your internet provider can monitor every connection you make? Did you know your cellphone company knows every phone number you've called?

I'm not terrified of limited monitoring. I have no interest in giving certain information I don't want to give to an entity I don't trust. It's necessary that my ISP knows what sites I go to and how I use the internet in order to provide me with Internet service. Same for my cell phone provider. They are also required, by law, to retain that data for a set period of time. It is not necessary to have Origin in order to play a computer game. All I need to play a computer game, is the damn computer game, and a computer with hardware capable of running it.

I don't trust anything that does a general blanket monitor on what software I install on my computer, and reports how I use that software. I don't trust anything that scans my entire hard drive looking for that software, because applications which do that are also known as Trojan Houses, malware, and are the very definition of spyware.

I personally hope that Origin is required for ME3, and it likely will be. If you truly enjoy the series (which you do, considering the number of posts you've made on this), then you will play it anyways, especially if the reviews are good (regardless of how much you may protest it now. I've seen hundreds of posts similar to this over the years as different DRM systems are tested). What do you truly have to hide that you would forfeit your personal pleasure (playing a new awesome game, ME3, DAIII, hell, likely everything EA releases from 2012 onwards) for?

I'm lucky I started out ME on the 360. However, any other game released by EA for the PC I will never buy so long as the EULA stays in its current form. I may not even buy games for the 360 anymore in lieu of the PC because of the price differential, and the fact that most of my gaming time is now devoted to Starcraft2. I.e., I am in position to completely boycott EA on this ground alone, and I will encourage others to do the same.

EDIT : From the looks of Origin's layout, it may be a similar to a steam clone, in which case the system would need to be on to even launch the game, let alone play it. A good plan, to be perfectly honest, especially if it works on a system similar to DA2 or ME2 in which you can disconnect partway through and it does not throw you out of the game (of course the login would become mandatory instead of optional in the newer games, but the system still stands).

I no longer support Steam as content delivery for reasons similar to why I will not support Origin. (user monitoring isn't the reason-- Steam's user monitoring terms are actually reasonable). Tying all game licenses purchased through Steam to your steam account is atrocious, and Origin likely does the exact same thing from what I have read. I will not support any such system of distribution or control.

I'm with Lukertin all the way on this. Glad to see someone (or a group of people) standing up against this nonsense. Sometimes it just baffles me how some people can be completely docile to atrocious stuff like this. Gaming is something most of us cherish and it's starting to take a turn for the worse by the day with stuff like Origin rearing its ugly head.

Bogsnot: Hope to hear results about your tests soon. Glad you're taking the time to dive into the abyss.

[Bogsnot1]

anzolino wrote...
Bogsnot1, do you have the possibilty to use a proxy server like spikeproxy (for checking the encrypted data like man in the middle)?

I have a spare old computer laying around so i could rig it up to act as a proxy to try and catch the data, but it doesnt have much grunt, so trying to brute-force crack the encryption to find out what its actually sending might take a whole lot of time. I'll cnosider looking into it after Ive tinkered with the VM systems.

Shinian2 wrote...
Thanks for all yours and Billy's work on this. Much useful information.
I hope your system can sort itself out!

Thanks.
Turns out the power outage screwed up my video card. Was cooking itself at 63* Celcius (145* F), causing the driver to glitch, as well as various other strange problems like Comodo Antivirus wasnt able to update or run. Swapped it out for my old HD2400, and system is nice and stable again. Will have to wait for payday before i can get something decent in there again.

Lukertin wrote...
You clearly didn't read the EULA, because the EULA specifically states that you waive your right to bring a lawsuit, or join a class action, against EA for any dispute arising out of the EULA. This is perfectly legal by the way, so no luck trying to circumvent that clause.

It might be legal in the USA, but its not legal in the EU, or in Australia. Trying to force Californian jurisdiction upon members of other countries is likewise illegal. 
EA have to play by the rules of the countries in which they do business. 

Modifié par Bogsnot1, 16 octobre 2011 - 06:33 .

[DukeOfNukes]

I'm sorry, but you all are a bunch of children. Steam has essentially the same ToS...there's really no reason to NOT download Origin.

People are just butthurt that EA is trying to cut out the middle man and ensure a greater profit share on their properties.

[Bogsnot1]

Yes, I'm fully aware Steam have similar T&C's. I dont use Steam either for that exact same reason.
As far as I'm concerned, EA have every right to try and cut out the middle man in order to increase their profits, what they dont have the right to is snooping around on my PC, especially not when I have actually legitimately paid for the product I am using.
They want me to log into their servers so they can monitor how I use their product, fine. Apart from that, they have no right to monitor my use of MS-Word, Firefox, or even those Asari-Hanar porn games they sell in Shin-Akiba ward.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

charmingcharlie wrote...

I thought I would post this in here since it is about Origin generally.  It seems EA is "aware" that not a hell of a lot of people like Origin (well colour me shocked).  The COO of EA , Peter Moore basically said "yeah not a lot of people like Origin right now" in a speech.  You can watch the speech here :-

http://uk.gamespot.c...ith-peter-moore

You have to sit through a lot of bull to hear him say it, but he says it at the 9 minute mark.  So at least we can take comfort in knowing that EA is "aware" of the fact PC gamers despise Origin.  The problem is they are talking about making it "better" not getting rid of it.

I hope they realise why people don't like it. If it wasn't for the snooping I wouldn't really have any problem with it.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Yes, I'm fully aware Steam have similar T&C's. I dont use Steam either for that exact same reason.
As far as I'm concerned, EA have every right to try and cut out the middle man in order to increase their profits, what they dont have the right to is snooping around on my PC, especially not when I have actually legitimately paid for the product I am using.
They want me to log into their servers so they can monitor how I use their product, fine. Apart from that, they have no right to monitor my use of MS-Word, Firefox, or even those Asari-Hanar porn games they sell in Shin-Akiba ward.

I heard those are really nasty..

[MarauderESP]

theyll wait until march to show the faqs on origin?
pfff!!!

[BlaCKRodjj]

MarauderESP wrote...

theyll wait until march to show the faqs on origin?
pfff!!!

Well.. Jesse Houston posted on his twitter that the SP of ME3 won't need an internet connection to play, so perhaps Origin will only be tied to the multiplayer part of the game

[Montana]

Shinian2 wrote...

I hope they realise why people don't like it. If it wasn't for the snooping I wouldn't really have any problem with it.

Same here.
I don't mind EA trying to make more money by distributing their own games digitally.
But when their distribution software acts as spyware and you have to agree to their "by agreeing you are now a slave to EA" contract in order to play, it gives me a bitter taste in my mouth.

I've nothing to hide, that doesn't mean that I want EA spying on me like I'm a criminal.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

My sister thread, and its support for your plea.

http://social.biowar...3/index/8527523

Modifié par DRUNK_CANADIAN, 16 octobre 2011 - 06:14 .

[Lukertin]

DukeOfNukes wrote...
I'm sorry, but you all are a bunch of children. Steam has essentially the same ToS...there's really no reason to NOT download Origin.

People are just butthurt that EA is trying to cut out the middle man and ensure a greater profit share on their properties.

No, Steam does not have the same ToS. Steam states it will only scan your hardware, your usage of the games played, and your RAM for anti-cheating measures.

It does not scan your damn hard drive like Origin.

Stop lying.