108 réponses à ce sujet

[Ksandor]

You clearly didn't read the EULA, because the EULA specifically states
that you waive your right to bring a lawsuit, or join a class action,
against EA for any dispute arising out of the EULA. This is perfectly
legal by the way, so no luck trying to circumvent that clause.

Just curious: Are EULAs legally binding like a signed contract in United States and European Union? You say they are legal but I would like to hear a judge or lawyer about this. You can put anything on EULA but is it legally binding?

Modifié par Ksandor, 05 novembre 2011 - 02:25 .

[Ksandor]

Another question: Is forcing people to forfeit their legal rights by accepting an EULA legal? For instance if an EULA says that "By installing this game you forfeit your legal rights of class action" can we legally say that such a sentence is binding? Do we even have a legal right to forfeit our rights granted to us by positive law and natural law as a citizen? I wonder if somebody sued a company based on this...

[Lukertin]

Ksandor wrote...
Just curious: Are EULAs legally binding like a signed contract in United States and European Union? You say they are legal but I would like to hear a judge or lawyer about this. You can put anything on EULA but is it legally binding?

A EULA is a contract, you don't need to sign anything to have a legally enforceable contract, the only grounds for invalidating a EULA is if it is against public policy, e.g., the EULA states something like 'You agree to give EA your first born child'.

That said, numerous clauses in contracts, such as choice of forum / choice of state law / method of arbitration (state court, fed court, neutral abitratrion) are always upheld regardless of the bargaining power between parties, these are not against public policy--in fact most would say these requirements promote public policy by forcing parties to use other means to abitrate their disputes, rather than clog the overworked court system, and removing lengthy legal bickering over choice of law and transferring/removing cases to different court jurisdictions.

[Lukertin]

Ksandor wrote...

Another question: Is forcing people to forfeit their legal rights by accepting an EULA legal? For instance if an EULA says that "By installing this game you forfeit your legal rights of class action" can we legally say that such a sentence is binding? Do we even have a legal right to forfeit our rights granted to us by positive law and natural law as a citizen? I wonder if somebody sued a company based on this...

You aren't forfeiting your legal rights. You agree to dispute resolution by arbitration, a judge is going to approve of this clause because he doesn't want to waste his time with some video gamer being butthurt and bringing a class action. Do you have any idea how much tax money is wasted when judges hear class action suits? Any clause which explicitly precludes you from bringing a class action will be warmly embraced by a judge. This isn't a case where plaintiffs have accrued large amounts of damages, with EA the maximum claim you are going to have is $60.

A judge is going to laugh your ass out of court if you try to claim you have some sort of natural right, which cannot be abridged in any manner, to sue people in court for $60.

Modifié par Lukertin, 05 novembre 2011 - 03:05 .

[Lukertin]

Marvin_Arnold wrote...

A lawyer tearing apart an EULA is a sight to behold...

In Germany the law specifies that EULAs are not allowed to contain paragraphs that can't be expected (Because the law assumes nobody reads EULAs). If you want to introduce an unusual paragraph (like allowing Origin to scan your HD and collect/send unspecified data), you have to point this out separately.

Therefore, the EULA is illegal, the agreement procedure and the game itself are thus "legally defective", and you have got the right to return the software for a refund on this basis.

This just in: Today EA has deleted "controversial passages" from their BF3 EULA, at least for Germany. Funnily enough, they didn't change the software, so apparently Origin will do the same no matter what the EULA says...

Does it matter, if you want to dispute the EULA you have to bring suit in the UK. Lol...

[zweistein_J]

ill just post this here too...

zweistein_J wrote...

zweistein_J wrote...

a friend of mine who lives in Germany told me that Origin's way of working for pc users is against German law and will be probably banned from Germany.
i'm waiting for some further info and confirmation about this.
but if that's true, knowing how Germany works things out about law, there are high chances for this to lead into huge problems for German gamers (like not being able to instal Origin at all, and ofc not to play the games it provides..

here you are

http://forums.electr...n-possible.html

[N0-Future]

Bump

[RUDAL]

Jarys wrote...

What do you truly have to hide that you would forfeit your personal pleasure (playing a new awesome game, ME3, DAIII, hell, likely everything EA releases from 2012 onwards) for?

EDIT : From the looks of Origin's layout, it may be a similar to a steam clone, in which case the system would need to be on to even launch the game, let alone play it. A good plan, to be perfectly honest, especially if it works on a system similar to DA2 or ME2 in which you can disconnect partway through and it does not throw you out of the game (of course the login would become mandatory instead of optional in the newer games, but the system still stands).

Heh...  EA is getting worse with almost every title released. ME3 is the last game from them that I'm looking forward to but if they will continue with crap like they do right now I will probably wait for some cracked version and download it just to see how the story ends.
And YES I would support piracy in this case cause I dont have an interest in supporting company that is forcing on me things i dont like.

I am one of those people who dont like and dont use Steam cause it's forced on gamers so why would I agree to origin?

[N0-Future]

Looks like Chris " I have become death the destroyer of threads " Preistly has locked down the 126 page origin thread on a weak excuse. If he didnt like what some people were saying then maybe he should have suspended their account instead he silenced us all by locking the thread...

WERE STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER EA/BIOWARE

[CenturyCrow]

Here's the link to the 126 pager; it still has a lot of information and links.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/8498716

[Moondoggie]

N0-Future wrote...

Looks like Chris " I have become death the destroyer of threads " Preistly has locked down the 126 page origin thread on a weak excuse. If he didnt like what some people were saying then maybe he should have suspended their account instead he silenced us all by locking the thread...

WERE STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER EA/BIOWARE

Breaking the forum rules is not a weak excuse. Unfortunately threads like this just tend to degenerate into a mess of trolling and mass raging with very little constructive dicussion coming from them. And since it is not a single individual causing the problem the thread would have to be locked.

Not that it matters in the end the trolls will open a new thread and start over anyway because they thrive on this sort of drama. Generally this stuff happens whenever Bioware release a new game. Which is fine really the publicity coming out of this has been great for Mass Effect 3 XD

Personally i hope ME3 does require Origin the publicity from all the butthurt would be outstanding. And you'll all end up buying it anyway.

But in all seriousness if you don't like Origin then don't buy the game. I don't agree with Steam and Valve's policy of forcing it on you even if you have a console so i don't buy games that require it.. The sad fact is that most people won't do that they will just buy ME3 and then whine about how they were forced to have Origin or try to justify using illegal cracks to bypass it. Most people don't stand up for things they believe in they just take the easy road and complain about it later. 

And for all the complaining about being spied on. You use the internet you get spied on. Facebook spies on you,MSN spies on you,Yahoo spies on you and every single program you use collects info about you including steam (Valve fanboys will find some ways of attempting to justify it to protect their precious developer but spying is spying). In the information age you can't sneeze without somebody knowing about it. But everyone wants a scapegoat to lash out on.

And much of it is not even that it's just Valve fanboys who are angry that anyone dare challange their lord and master. "God forbid EA try to offer some competition no we shall find a way to bring them down!"

Market competition is a good thing. Letting Valve have a monopoly on gaming is not healthy. And the fact they brainwash so many fanboys to accept whatever they do shows how dangerous that monopoly really is.

Modifié par Moondoggie, 13 décembre 2011 - 11:38 .

[wolfsite]

Actually just recently I ran a Process Monitor on Origin running on my PC and compared it to Steam.

All Origin did was check Directories that were linked specifically to Origin and the Windows Directory (and there it only looked at .DLL files) that was all Origin did it did not look at any other directories on my PC.

The funny thing though is that Steam not only checked Steam and Windows Directories but it also dipped into my Documents and Settings directories and well as the My Documents directories (I do know they store saves in these areas though so that may be all that is.)

[xkg]

Moondoggie wrote...

Personally i hope ME3 does require Origin the publicity from all the butthurt would be outstanding. And you'll all end up buying it anyway.

But in all seriousness if you don't like Origin then don't buy the game. I don't agree with Steam and Valve's policy of forcing it on you even if you have a console so i don't buy games that require it.. The sad fact is that most people won't do that they will just buy ME3 and then whine about how they were forced to have Origin or try to justify using illegal cracks to bypass it. Most people don't stand up for things they believe in they just take the easy road and complain about it later. 

Doesn't matter all that much to me if Origin will be required or not. Of course I'll buy it probably  but don't worry about the whining.
My plan is very simple.

1. I'll Buy the game
2. Thean, I'll play it without Origin/Steam - like I always do with every other game.
3. I won't try to justify anything - I don't feel like i need to. What others think is not my concern.

Modifié par xkg, 13 décembre 2011 - 11:50 .

[anzolino]

Moondoggie wrote...
Breaking the forum rules is not a weak excuse. Unfortunately threads like this just tend to degenerate into a mess of trolling and mass raging with very little constructive dicussion coming from them. And since it is not a single individual causing the problem the thread would have to be locked.

Not that it matters in the end the trolls will open a new thread and start over anyway because they thrive on this sort of drama. Generally this stuff happens whenever Bioware release a new game. Which is fine really the publicity coming out of this has been great for Mass Effect 3 XD

Personally i hope ME3 does require Origin the publicity from all the butthurt would be outstanding. And you'll all end up buying it anyway.

But in all seriousness if you don't like Origin then don't buy the game. I don't agree with Steam and Valve's policy of forcing it on you even if you have a console so i don't buy games that require it.. The sad fact is that most people won't do that they will just buy ME3 and then whine about how they were forced to have Origin or try to justify using illegal cracks to bypass it. Most people don't stand up for things they believe in they just take the easy road and complain about it later.

And for all the complaining about being spied on. You use the internet you get spied on. Facebook spies on you,MSN spies on you,Yahoo spies on you and every single program you use collects info about you including steam (Valve fanboys will find some ways of attempting to justify it to protect their precious developer but spying is spying). In the information age you can't sneeze without somebody knowing about it. But everyone wants a scapegoat to lash out on.

And much of it is not even that it's just Valve fanboys who are angry that anyone dare challange their lord and master. "God forbid EA try to offer some competition no we shall find a way to bring them down!"

Market competition is a good thing. Letting Valve have a monopoly on gaming is not healthy. And the fact they brainwash so many fanboys to accept whatever they do shows how dangerous that monopoly really is.

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you? Threads like this? What does it mean "threads like this"?
A mess of trolling? The thread has 126 pages and there were no more trolling as in other threads and at least 124 pages reasonable discussions. The thread before this has 53 pages before it was locked. Do you even read some pages of it? You should, then you would understand what the problem is for the people you called trolls.

It's a matter of fact that the policy and the software Origin has broken laws and the "trolling people" are the reason that Origin is now at the same level as the Steam client. It is also a fact that the consumer and data protectors are thinking this is not going far enough. They are not satisfied at the time. This is not only about not buying, this is about breaking rules. And I'm the consumer and I have the right to protest against it. If they want me to buy their games they have to respect the law. Otherwise I will not buy their games.

I'm not using Steam, I'm not using Facebook, I'm not using MSN, I'm not using Yahoo, or Google or whatever. There is no installed program here what sends my data to somewhere or someone without my permission. So even in information age you can handle your privacy. You can use the internet quite well without beeing spied. So, don't talk about "you will be spied if you conneted to the internet"! The closed thread was not about that issue. It was about Origin's activities. That was the point, and not internet security and not spying on internet users!

[CenturyCrow]

Moondoggie wrote...
And much of it is not even that it's just Valve fanboys who are angry that anyone dare challange their lord and master. "God forbid EA try to offer some competition no we shall find a way to bring them down!"

Market competition is a good thing. Letting Valve have a monopoly on gaming is not healthy. And the fact they brainwash so many fanboys to accept whatever they do shows how dangerous that monopoly really is.

So called market competition doesn't lower the price of oil/gasoline any more than the price of games has dropped due to competition. Retailers are more likely to discount the game, not publishers. And you really think that EA won't switch to a digital distribution method so they can cut retailers out of the loop? Why does a digital copy of the game cost the same as a retail boxed version?

Origin or Steam does nothing for the game; it serves no useful function for the buyer who just wants to play a game. Origin burdens the user with yet another EULA, TOS and Privacy Policy. Look at all the games that BioWare created that never needed Origin. IF I do get ME 3, it probably will be the last EA game I purchase. And I'll be due for my annual format and reinstallation of Windows.

[Cutlass Jack]

CenturyCrow wrote...

Why does a digital copy of the game cost the same as a retail boxed version?

That actually has to do with the retailers, not the publisher. Retailers refuse to carry games if digital versions come out cheaper or release sooner. Publishers have to charge the same price and have the same release dates for that reason. The only thing they can do is offer different pre-order bonuses. But they must provide something equally good for the retailer.

There was a big 'scandal' I recall earlier this year where Steam had promised a game release before retail and had to go back on their word due to Retailer complaint.

If EA truly wanted to cut the retailer out of the loop they'd just price lower digitally and it would be done.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 13 décembre 2011 - 02:02 .

[wolfsite]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

CenturyCrow wrote...

Why does a digital copy of the game cost the same as a retail boxed version?

That actually has to do with the retailers, not the publisher. Retailers refuse to carry games if digital versions come out cheaper or release sooner. Publishers have to charge the same price and have the same release dates for that reason. The only thing they can do is offer different pre-order bonuses. But they must provide something equally good for the retailer.

There was a big 'scandal' I recall earlier this year where Steam had promised a game release before retail and had to go back on their word due to Retailer complaint.

If EA truly wanted to cut the retailer out of the loop they'd just price lower digitally and it would be done.

Thanks for sharing I never knew about this.

Modifié par wolfsite, 13 décembre 2011 - 02:10 .

[CenturyCrow]

Cutlass Jack wrote...
If EA truly wanted to cut the retailer out of the loop they'd just price lower digitally and it would be done.

I think we'll see that happening soon. EA was primarily a publisher, not a distributor. Now they're a distributor and it gives them more control. Origin is a big move for EA not just from the publishing and distributing angle either. I think they want to make a gamer's version of Facebook. Control.

[N0-Future]

Moondoggie wrote...

N0-Future wrote...

Looks like Chris " I have become death the destroyer of threads " Preistly has locked down the 126 page origin thread on a weak excuse. If he didnt like what some people were saying then maybe he should have suspended their account instead he silenced us all by locking the thread...

WERE STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER EA/BIOWARE

Breaking the forum rules is not a weak excuse. Unfortunately threads like this just tend to degenerate into a mess of trolling and mass raging with very little constructive dicussion coming from them. And since it is not a single individual causing the problem the thread would have to be locked.

Not that it matters in the end the trolls will open a new thread and start over anyway because they thrive on this sort of drama. Generally this stuff happens whenever Bioware release a new game. Which is fine really the publicity coming out of this has been great for Mass Effect 3 XD

Personally i hope ME3 does require Origin the publicity from all the butthurt would be outstanding. And you'll all end up buying it anyway.

But in all seriousness if you don't like Origin then don't buy the game. I don't agree with Steam and Valve's policy of forcing it on you even if you have a console so i don't buy games that require it.. The sad fact is that most people won't do that they will just buy ME3 and then whine about how they were forced to have Origin or try to justify using illegal cracks to bypass it. Most people don't stand up for things they believe in they just take the easy road and complain about it later. 

And for all the complaining about being spied on. You use the internet you get spied on. Facebook spies on you,MSN spies on you,Yahoo spies on you and every single program you use collects info about you including steam (Valve fanboys will find some ways of attempting to justify it to protect their precious developer but spying is spying). In the information age you can't sneeze without somebody knowing about it. But everyone wants a scapegoat to lash out on.

And much of it is not even that it's just Valve fanboys who are angry that anyone dare challange their lord and master. "God forbid EA try to offer some competition no we shall find a way to bring them down!"

Market competition is a good thing. Letting Valve have a monopoly on gaming is not healthy. And the fact they brainwash so many fanboys to accept whatever they do shows how dangerous that monopoly really is.

You silly person I am well aware of how to mask what I do on the internet, look up TOR project if your interested. I dont use Facebook, Steam, or have a youtube account. My privacy means to much too me so if EA force my hand... well we shall see.

Modifié par N0-Future, 13 décembre 2011 - 09:43 .

[robertm2]

i play on xbox so origin doesnt apply to me but the fact that so many threads have been made and still no answer is just sad. they should stop tip-toeing around it and just come out and say it. i would fire whoever is your P.R. if you tell people now they will have time to get over it before the game releases

[Pkxm]

"every single program you use collects info about you" This is not true.

Also, why are you against people voicing their opinion on something? It's like your attitude is "don't like it? don't buy it..and don't say a word or voice your opinion against it"

Bioware obviously takes feedback for their games and we are giving them our feedback. This Origin crapware is something we do not want. This is NOT about Steam or Facebook or privacy on the internet. This is about Mass Effect 3, Origin, and future Bioware games.

I want to buy Bioware games. I want to play Bioware games. I DO NOT want to install software that datamines my PC and violates my privacy, in order to play your games. I also do NOT want to have to be online to play a single player game. Requiring Origin would require an internet connection, what happens when you lose internet? what happens if you have to cancel your internet? what happens to those of us that live in areas with no high speed internet? It's becoming a pain in the ass to even be able to play a video game..that we paid 60 or 80 dollars + for. And now it seems its going to become an invasion of privacy and security. Software can be exploited and databases hacked you know. But hey, I guess having a brain and thinking for ourselves is a no no these days


Btw, to those of you trying to get an answer on whether ME3 will require Origin, it will. The EULAs have already showed this. So you might want to voice your opposition to Origin spying instead of asking for an answer to something we already know or else Bioware will keep leading you on until the game goes gold and it is too late.

Modifié par Jsxdf, 13 décembre 2011 - 10:20 .

[wolfsite]

Jsxdf wrote...

"every single program you use collects info about you" This is not true.

Also, why are you against people voicing their opinion on something? It's like your attitude is "don't like it? don't buy it..and don't say a word or voice your opinion against it"

Bioware obviously takes feedback for their games and we are giving them our feedback. This Origin crapware is something we do not want. This is NOT about Steam or Facebook or privacy on the internet. This is about Mass Effect 3, Origin, and future Bioware games.

I want to buy Bioware games. I want to play Bioware games. I DO NOT want to install software that datamines my PC and violates my privacy, in order to play your games. I also do NOT want to have to be online to play a single player game. Requiring Origin would require an internet connection, what happens when you lose internet? what happens if you have to cancel your internet? what happens to those of us that live in areas with no high speed internet? It's becoming a pain in the ass to even be able to play a video game..that we paid 60 or 80 dollars + for. And now it seems its going to become an invasion of privacy and security. Software can be exploited and databases hacked you know. But hey, I guess having a brain and thinking for ourselves is a no no these days

The current version of Origin does not datamine your PC.

I think I said it earlier but I ran a process Monitor prgoram (Same one from the youtube video everyone loves to use to justify there arguement) and Origin only checked Origin related directories and some DLL files in Windows that was it.  Pretty much the exact same thing as Steam does (I ran both on the process monitor) so if you have a problem with Origin you should also be banging on Valves door cause Origin and Steam do the exact same thing process wise.

[craigdolphin]

Sadly, this is Bioware's modus operandi with publishing decisions that they know their customers are unhappy with (e.g., DRM, Origin).

Just once I wish Bioware/EA would decide that they would try a strategy of 'surprise and delight their customers' with their publishing decisions instead of doing whatever they can to undermine the rights of their paying customers.

Can you imagine how customers would feel if EA did things like:

Buy our game for PC and it will run DRM-free, but if you choose to voluntarily install Origin and link your game to your account, you'll get a free account-linked download code to download the game for your console(s) too.

Buy DLC for our games on any supported platform and register it to your account and you'll get an account-linked download code for that DLC for the game on other supported platforms.

We've heard about the privacy concerns many of our customers have expressed about the T&C of our Origin EULA and are happy to change them to ensure that only EA-related files and folders are scanned. We'll also provide you with a hassle-free way to inspect the payload of any communications from our Origin client whenever you like.

?

*sigh*

[N0-Future]

wolfsite wrote...

Jsxdf wrote...

"every single program you use collects info about you" This is not true.

Also, why are you against people voicing their opinion on something? It's like your attitude is "don't like it? don't buy it..and don't say a word or voice your opinion against it"

Bioware obviously takes feedback for their games and we are giving them our feedback. This Origin crapware is something we do not want. This is NOT about Steam or Facebook or privacy on the internet. This is about Mass Effect 3, Origin, and future Bioware games.

I want to buy Bioware games. I want to play Bioware games. I DO NOT want to install software that datamines my PC and violates my privacy, in order to play your games. I also do NOT want to have to be online to play a single player game. Requiring Origin would require an internet connection, what happens when you lose internet? what happens if you have to cancel your internet? what happens to those of us that live in areas with no high speed internet? It's becoming a pain in the ass to even be able to play a video game..that we paid 60 or 80 dollars + for. And now it seems its going to become an invasion of privacy and security. Software can be exploited and databases hacked you know. But hey, I guess having a brain and thinking for ourselves is a no no these days

The current version of Origin does not datamine your PC.

I think I said it earlier but I ran a process Monitor prgoram (Same one from the youtube video everyone loves to use to justify there arguement) and Origin only checked Origin related directories and some DLL files in Windows that was it.  Pretty much the exact same thing as Steam does (I ran both on the process monitor) so if you have a problem with Origin you should also be banging on Valves door cause Origin and Steam do the exact same thing process wise.

Maybe Origin does data mine maybe it doesn't at this point in time I dont trust it. The fact is there is lots of proof that it does/did? They can make all the changes in the world to Origin and I wouldn't trust it or let it within a 100 miles of my system. IMO its too little too late.

When you catch a company ( in this case EA ) lying to you anything they say after that is suspect.

Modifié par N0-Future, 13 décembre 2011 - 10:37 .

[Bryy_Miller]

slimgrin wrote...
 Preposterous!! Everyone else spies on you, why not let EA do the same?

Well, yeah. Picking and choosing who to hate for doing the same thing as someone you love, that's kinda idiotic.

If you don't like the DRM, don't buy the game!

Again: well, yeah.

This is a business, not a charity!

Of course?

...just thought I'd get the retarded fanboy rebuttles out of the way for you.

I don't see how they are retarded if they are true.

Nobody is forcing you to play anything.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 13 décembre 2011 - 11:01 .