286 réponses à ce sujet

[OMTING52601]

Sidney wrote...

OMTING52601 wrote...

So, in your opinion, DLC is worth the money, but aggravating due to lack of 'real' choices or actions.

The lack of choices are annoying and perhaps go all the way to frustrating.

The weakness of the DLC to me is that it has "listened" to fans who wanted stealth and puzzles. The stealth part is lousy. DA* isn't a stealth based system and the implementation of stealth is poor. The games asks if you want to roll down the stealth or fight path but it is all or nothing. Once you say stealth, you are locked into the stealth mini-game no matter what and I suspect most folks will want to "experiment" with that new game mode. Equally galling - mage, rogue, warrior doesn't matter a whit.

The puzzles are also poor. There's a big mess of them all lumped together. You've got a grossly simplistic but annoyingly long type of color matching puzzles. That's not bad but then you;ve got a tile flipping picture puzzle that, as best I can tell, has neither clues nor a pattern that is just beyond annoying. I hate puzzles in RPG's because it means that no matter how smart/dumb my character is the puzzles are exactly as solvable as me, the player, makes them.

Other than that you've got some interesting new foes, good environments, decent party banter so was it worth $10 for 4 and some odd hours of game? i think so but I thought, boss battle aside, Legacy was better,

Thanks! I'm not a huge fan of Bioware puzzles, especially the ones in the DA verse. A lot of the time they don't seem to have much rhyme or reason, lol, other than adding twenty minutes to a particular quest. And it seems like most of the party banter, esp LI banter, is based off Hawke flirting with Tallis, which tbh, I'm not interested in doing. I appreciate the replies, btw. They are helping me make a more informed decision.

[Quething]

The reason one doesn't watch DA:O on YouTube is because it doesn't fit one's Warden. DA:O dialogs and cutscenes are responsive to who you romance and when, which quests you do and how you resolve them. Many conversations resolve in very different ways depending on which responses you pick; there are many places in the game where you can quicksave before a conversation and then play out two completely different results and hear 50-80% different NPC dialog each time.

That's not fun to watch on YouTube. The person playing isn't going to pick the same response you wanted, won't have romanced who you romanced, won't have resolved plots the way you resolved plots, and you miss 50-80% of possible NPC responses.

Ambient DA2 banter is far less responsive. The only real variables are Hawke's personality (one of three) and Hawke's romance, and they only come into play about half the time. Interactive dialog is even more limited; romanced Fenris and Friend Fenris and Rival Fenris all tell you the same story about the Fog Warriors, and you can't get more than 10% difference in response by choosing different lines; the difference in response between Troll!Hawke and Saccharine!Hawke and @sshole!Hawke is a one-line response at best.

That's very easy to YouTube. The person behind the camera can just choose each of the three personality types in turn, then play the NPC response, and you can rest assured you're not missing anything and are seeing the same thing your own character would see if you actually bought the DLC.

That said, I did enjoy the DLC. The tile puzzles are poorly done, but hardly mandatory; I guarantee whatever armor you're already wearing is better than the set behind the flames, even with the "set to your level" mechanic, and it doesn't even have unique art resources. The combat is relatively varied and offers a good challenge, and I found some of the insight you get into your companions pretty moving, and in a way that I think rings stronger when it's your Hawke they're talking to/about, though that's a very personal thing. I have no complaints about the stealth section. It was well-executed considering the engine, and a nice change of pace (though it would have been a lot easier for them had they not stupidly stripped stealth from the game to begin with).

Is it worth ten dollars? I don't know. What's ten dollars worth to you? If that's what you spend on food in a week, then no. If that's what you spend on lunch every day, then get it, by all means.

Modifié par Quething, 16 octobre 2011 - 01:18 .

[OMTING52601]

LOL, I like your perspective, Quething. Ten bucks is way less than I spend on food a week, but it's way more than I spend on lunch. Truth be told, I have the MS points on my account already - I get them when I have a little extra money so I can get games/dlc when it's available if I want it. Kind of like a gamer savings plan, ROFL!

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

What would Hawke do with the scroll? Engage in a little hunting in Kirkwall and elsewhere, with more mercy and discretion than the Orlesians or Chantry are capable of mustering on their best day.

This.

Also my Hawke's might be able to use the information on the list between the Mage/Templar war to bend the Divine to my will on the mage issue.  This also might help my monarch back home in knowing these facts as well.  If I'm a rogue and one who really enjoys profit then I might sell the information on the list for a very large gain.

Tallis as good as said it was a hit list. 

Is anyone on this list that we know from Ferelden  or anyone that Hawke might know?  This is why Hawke needed that scroll.

As for killing Tallis off because of Felicia Day's webseries, I say so what, kill her.  When was the lore for the webseries ever part of the offical lore from the game and the books?  If this is the case then every fan fiction out there could be said to be part of the lore then.  So I personally don't buy that argument in not allowing the character to be killed off.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 16 octobre 2011 - 02:32 .

[Vlad_Dracul]

Quething wrote...

Ambient DA2 banter is far less responsive. The only real variables are Hawke's personality (one of three) and Hawke's romance, and they only come into play about half the time. Interactive dialog is even more limited; romanced Fenris and Friend Fenris and Rival Fenris all tell you the same story about the Fog Warriors, and you can't get more than 10% difference in response by choosing different lines; the difference in response between Troll!Hawke and Saccharine!Hawke and @sshole!Hawke is a one-line response at best.

Is it worth ten dollars? I don't know. What's ten dollars worth to you? If that's what you spend on food in a week, then no. If that's what you spend on lunch every day, then get it, by all means.

It was easier for Bioware, but not pleasant for players, but beyond that, dialogue wheel was a good solution, after all, as well as voiced hero.

Ten bucks is my dinner, and when I can have dinner or five/six hours of game, it is very simple decision.

Only this stupid ending. Gah.<_< Even know one damn name from that damn scroll ...

[FASherman]

Yrkoon wrote...

The inclusion of a web series just means that any loose plot threads from the DLC could conceivably be addressed in the web series.  Is that what you're hoping for?    No, I didn't think so.

How do you reach that conclusion? Are you a creative consultant fo the franchise? Or simply psycic able to see the next 30 months? You're drawing conclusions without any evidence to support it. You claim past history about something that by its very existance is a radical departure from past history.

[Yrkoon]

FASherman wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

The inclusion of a web series just means that any loose plot threads from the DLC could conceivably be addressed in the web series.  Is that what you're hoping for?    No, I didn't think so.

How do you reach that conclusion? Are you a creative consultant fo the franchise? Or simply psycic able to see the next 30 months? You're drawing conclusions without any evidence to support it. You claim past history about something that by its very existance is a radical departure from past history.

Well,  the loose plot threads either get resolved in the web series, or they won't get resolved at all.

You will not see a MoTB2  (for example).  Bioware doesn't do DLC sequels.    You can call this baseless psychic ability, but I call it hindsight and track records.  Show me another time in Bioware's history where they've continued a DLC's plot into another  DLC or game sequel.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 16 octobre 2011 - 08:16 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

How would the web series clear up loose plot threads from a DLC that takes place AFTER the the web series?

[Vlad_Dracul]

In fact, in this DLC you have three moments to decide, all very lame:

- Kill or spare one Orlesian ass
- Stealth or killing machine tactics in the castle
- Leave or follow Tallis from caves, so kill or spare a lot Tal Vashots

I think that I can speak for majority: Final decision, what makes good sence is much important than all others in story.

[Gervaise]

Been thinking alot about the way things panned out in MoA and really the problem is that Hawke is not the main person/hero of the story - Tallis is. It is her quest - she decides who to recruit, how much to tell them, makes the plan, alters the plan, knows the entries and exits to the Castle from plans she has already acquired, comes and goes pretty much as it pleases her and finally successfully completes her mission. Hawke and friends have become the NPCs in another person's story.

Not only that but the summing up by Cassandra and Varric is very annoying because the implication given for Hawke's actions are very superficial. If I recalled correctly, the main argument why I helped in the first place was that the Orlesians had a relic that didn't belong to them. Bearing in mind the amount of trouble I had previously had with the Arishok and the number of people who got hurt because of someone taking something that belonged to the Qunari, I was perfectly prepared to buy into the idea that innocent lives might be saved by helping Tallis. When I discovered I had been lied to, the first run through I was still prepared to entertain the idea of helping Tallis because the "innocent lives are at stake" still held good, whether through letting her complete her mission or stopping her from doing so. Walking away at that point did not fit with that particular version of Hawke that I had created.

At the end, part of the reason I wanted to see the scroll was to check if it really was what Tallis claimed it to be. If it was there were various options open to my Hawke and since it was withheld, I must assume that it was a list of spies and must act accordingly. What I found insulting was that Tallis (and the writers) should think that giving me some fancy babble would satisfy me. I hadn't asked for payment, that wasn't my motivation. However, she had just added to the list of powerful enemies who would like Hawke dead and pretty much screwed up my plans to try and get a better deal for mages by peaceful negotiation with the Divine/Orlais. (As a result I can now almost forgive Anders for thinking that compromise is no longer an option). What seemed a pity is that Sebastian couldn't pull the sort of trick he did when I first saw him - so even if he couldn't put an arrow through Tallis (because unfortunately it is implied that I am going to be forced into meeting her again) an arrow through the scroll (and possibly her hand) would have been sufficient recompense for all the grief she gave me.

[Vlad_Dracul]

Gervaise wrote...

Been thinking alot about the way things panned out in MoA and really the problem is that Hawke is not the main person/hero of the story - Tallis is. It is her quest - she decides who to recruit, how much to tell them, makes the plan, alters the plan, knows the entries and exits to the Castle from plans she has already acquired, comes and goes pretty much as it pleases her and finally successfully completes her mission. Hawke and friends have become the NPCs in another person's story.
.

Yes, this is so sad. Hawke is humiliated now by his creators from Bioware. Second-class hero.

Hell with that scroll, logic and Qun:pinched:

[bigSarg]

ok, I think some people have missed the fact that certain things have to happen to further the storyline of the game and/or set up the storyline for the next DLC/game. Some things happen regardless of your choices, like with Meredith and Orsino, your choices have little effect on the storyline which feels more realistic to me than the alternative. Not being able to take the scroll from Tallis seems to me to be a minor thing and maybe it's going to lead to something in DA3 that has to happen in order to make DA3 somewhat logical. Also you have to remember that DA2 is being told as a story by Varric it is not happening as you play, so your getting his view of what happened or his version of what happened. Regardless I don't know why everyone is so upset about the ending of a DLC, if it has no affect on the main storyline, so who really cares? I do think that Tallis and the scroll are going to be part of DA3, or it will have something to do with the storyline.

Edit:  Also some people seem to be under the impression that there are few choices in Legacy, that the end is set , which is not true, you have the option to let Corphyus go free with the Wardens or kill him if you side with Larius, I always kill him, just because you haven't experienced another alternative ending to something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Modifié par bigSarg, 19 octobre 2011 - 03:32 .

[Gervaise]

Fair enough but then don't give us the option to ask for the scroll - just have Tallis says thanks for the help, toss us the jewel and wave goodbye. If you are going to give us the option to ask and she refuses, at least allow Hawke the option to react, either resigned or angry, even if ultimately Tallis still makes her exit. Just having extra dialogue prompts that lead nowhere is frustrating.

[TEWR]

bigSarg wrote...

ok, I think some people have missed the fact that certain things have to happen to further the storyline of the game and/or set up the storyline for the next DLC/game. Some things happen regardless of your choices, like with Meredith and Orsino, your choices have little effect on the storyline which feels more realistic to me than the alternative. Not being able to take the scroll from Tallis seems to me to be a minor thing and maybe it's going to lead to something in DA3 that has to happen in order to make DA3 somewhat logical. Also you have to remember that DA2 is being told as a story by Varric it is not happening as you play, so your getting his view of what happened or his version of what happened. Regardless I don't know why everyone is so upset about the ending of a DLC, if it has no affect on the main storyline or the next game, so who really cares? I do think that Tallis and the scroll are going to be part of DA3, or it will have something to do with the storyline.

I think you've missed the fact that most people don't actually want to obtain the scroll. They just want Hawke to attempt to obtain the scroll from Tallis if that option is chosen, and still fail to obtain it for whatever reason. If he attempted to obtain it in a valid way, then people would be content that he actually tried.

[jamesp81]

I really enjoyed the DLC. It was entertaining. I also enjoyed getting to lecture Tallis about how monstrous the Qunari are (the prison cell conversation was NOT a pleasant one for our little elf).

The only thing I didn't like was how the PC was *somewhat* pushed into helping qunari. My Hawke considers them a dangerous threat, so dangerous that almost any means necessary to stop them is justified. This Hawke doesn't seem the kind that would let her walk away and leave the qunari's intelligence network intact.

Of course, I'm biased. If DA3 was written in such a way that it could be called "kick the hell out of hornheads" I'd be a happy person.

I can accept it as necessary to advance the story, though.

Modifié par jamesp81, 19 octobre 2011 - 03:35 .

[ReallyRue]

I thought the big end choice was "help Tallis" or "leave Tallis".

[bigSarg]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

bigSarg wrote...

ok, I think some people have missed the fact that certain things have to happen to further the storyline of the game and/or set up the storyline for the next DLC/game. Some things happen regardless of your choices, like with Meredith and Orsino, your choices have little effect on the storyline which feels more realistic to me than the alternative. Not being able to take the scroll from Tallis seems to me to be a minor thing and maybe it's going to lead to something in DA3 that has to happen in order to make DA3 somewhat logical. Also you have to remember that DA2 is being told as a story by Varric it is not happening as you play, so your getting his view of what happened or his version of what happened. Regardless I don't know why everyone is so upset about the ending of a DLC, if it has no affect on the main storyline or the next game, so who really cares? I do think that Tallis and the scroll are going to be part of DA3, or it will have something to do with the storyline.

I think you've missed the fact that most people don't actually want to obtain the scroll. They just want Hawke to attempt to obtain the scroll from Tallis if that option is chosen, and still fail to obtain it for whatever reason. If he attempted to obtain it in a valid way, then people would be content that he actually tried.

OK, I agree that would certainly be a better ending, and having the option to try and take the scroll would have made more sense, regardless of the success or failure of that option.

[LobselVith8]

Master Shiori wrote...

Saving the Duke? Yeah, sure..

I'll save some guy who's hurling insults at me while hanging off the edge of a damn cliff. Riiight.

So it's established that this is something that you, personally, wouldn't do it. I don't think that addresses that other people may have wanted their respective Hawke to do otherwise.

Master Shiori wrote...

As for punching/killing Tallis, haven't you people already outgrown the phase where you want to kill every character that you happen to dislike for whatever reason?

You mean a pro-Qunari character who works for the Qunari - a group of people who tried to force their ideology across the continent, and likely wish to do so again (given what Sten and the Arishok have said)? Tallis betrayed Hawke. Why should Hawke stand idly by, doing nothing? I don't think many people outgrow wanting a pro-active protagonist rather than a reactive one.

Master Shiori wrote...

As for taking the scroll from Tallis, I don't believe we should always have a choice of doing whatever crosses our mind.

I believe having choices should be avaliable. Fallout: New Vegas was able to do it. Their DLCs provided choices for the protagonist.

Master Shiori wrote...

Sometimes it's nice to see things happening beyond our characters control. At the very least, it makes the said character come across as more real, rather than some perfect hero who can do whatever he/she wants.

It's not nice to see the protagonist doing nothing when it concerns events that are within his control.

[Beerfish]

The failing is not addressing the Tallis ending with a proper cutscene. Just letting her walk away was highly unsatisfying. All they need was to add two cutscenes, one where the hero is in agreement with her and lets her walk away and one where something plausible allows her to escape, whether it be one final attack with quanri where she slips away, her throwing down a smoke bomb and disappearing or whatever. They had to at least do something semi plausible to make me think that my Hawke couldnt get the scroll from her even though he is trying to.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

So it's established that this is something that you, personally, wouldn't do it. I don't think that addresses that other people may have wanted their respective Hawke to do otherwise.

You know the old saying: Can't trust them damn Orlesians, especially when they're hanging off a cliff and insulting you.

But even if you did save him, I doubt he'd be grateful. He's Orlesian and Hawke's Fereldan. Orlesians look down upon Fereldans and his respect for Hawke was just a ploy from how I saw it.

He'd probably attack Hawke again. Not out of insanity, but out of a fierce and smug sense of superiority.

Or he'd just run off to Empress Celene and say Hawke attacked him.

I don't think Hawke should've been able to side with Duke Prosper. I think Salit would've been a better person to side with.

Master Shiori wrote...

As for taking the scroll from Tallis, I don't believe we should always have a choice of doing whatever crosses our mind.

It truly amazes me how many times I must say that all people want is for Hawke to attempt to take the scroll -- by force preferably -- and still fail with Tallis still holding onto the scroll.

All people want is for Hawke to attempt to obtain it and for Tallis to still run away with it. The ending would be the same but the way it was handled would be different.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 19 octobre 2011 - 05:48 .

[Mallika Surana]

I have not read the entire thread, but I want to say that yes, i found the end to be disappointing in regards to the scroll.

My Hawke told Tallis to hand it over and Tallis was just like "teehee, I'm not giving it to you just cause you made an angry face!".  I really couldn't believe it when my Hawke's response was "lawl, just kidding yo".

Really? Why couldn't my response have been "Hand it over or Fenris over here is going to chop your damn head off you Qunari zealot."  Why did my Hawke just let her walk off with a list of Qunari agents/spies?  WHY!  At least if we had TRIED to take it and Tallis pulled out some sort of tricks to get away, i would have been ok with that, but meh.

I had originally planned to not buy this DLC because of my disappointment with DA2 overall, but I watched the first episode of Redemption and enjoyed it and thought "What the heck!  I'll check it out."  *sigh*

[FASherman]

Yrkoon wrote...

FASherman wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

The inclusion of a web series just means that any loose plot threads from the DLC could conceivably be addressed in the web series.  Is that what you're hoping for?    No, I didn't think so.

How do you reach that conclusion? Are you a creative consultant fo the franchise? Or simply psycic able to see the next 30 months? You're drawing conclusions without any evidence to support it. You claim past history about something that by its very existance is a radical departure from past history.

Well,  the loose plot threads either get resolved in the web series, or they won't get resolved at all.

You will not see a MoTB2  (for example).  Bioware doesn't do DLC sequels.    You can call this baseless psychic ability, but I call it hindsight and track records.  Show me another time in Bioware's history where they've continued a DLC's plot into another  DLC or game sequel.

The Stone Prisoner & Golems of Amgarrak

Thanks for playing

[TEWR]

FASherman wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

FASherman wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

The inclusion of a web series just means that any loose plot threads from the DLC could conceivably be addressed in the web series.  Is that what you're hoping for?    No, I didn't think so.

How do you reach that conclusion? Are you a creative consultant fo the franchise? Or simply psycic able to see the next 30 months? You're drawing conclusions without any evidence to support it. You claim past history about something that by its very existance is a radical departure from past history.

Well,  the loose plot threads either get resolved in the web series, or they won't get resolved at all.

You will not see a MoTB2  (for example).  Bioware doesn't do DLC sequels.    You can call this baseless psychic ability, but I call it hindsight and track records.  Show me another time in Bioware's history where they've continued a DLC's plot into another  DLC or game sequel.

The Stone Prisoner & Golems of Amgarrak

Thanks for playing

not really. The Stone Prisoner dealt with Shale and Shale's origins while Golems of Amgarrak dealt with Tevinter mages and foolish Dwarves using dead casteless bodies as Golem material. Two completely different stories that nowhere near relate to one another except for "Golems!!"

Yrkoon is asking if there's ever been one DLC that had a plotline that was continued in another DLC that started where the first one left off. Basically, would Tallis' storyline be continued in another DLC?

The answer is that so far to the best of my knowledge that hasn't ever happened in Bioware's history.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

ReallyRue wrote...

I thought the big end choice was "help Tallis" or "leave Tallis".

So did I , until I found out "Leave Tallis" = "Help Tallis Unintentionally".

[FASherman]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

FASherman wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

FASherman wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

The inclusion of a web series just means that any loose plot threads from the DLC could conceivably be addressed in the web series.  Is that what you're hoping for?    No, I didn't think so.

How do you reach that conclusion? Are you a creative consultant fo the franchise? Or simply psycic able to see the next 30 months? You're drawing conclusions without any evidence to support it. You claim past history about something that by its very existance is a radical departure from past history.

Well,  the loose plot threads either get resolved in the web series, or they won't get resolved at all.

You will not see a MoTB2  (for example).  Bioware doesn't do DLC sequels.    You can call this baseless psychic ability, but I call it hindsight and track records.  Show me another time in Bioware's history where they've continued a DLC's plot into another  DLC or game sequel.

The Stone Prisoner & Golems of Amgarrak

Thanks for playing

not really. The Stone Prisoner dealt with Shale and Shale's origins while Golems of Amgarrak dealt with Tevinter mages and foolish Dwarves using dead casteless bodies as Golem material. Two completely different stories that nowhere near relate to one another except for "Golems!!"

Yrkoon is asking if there's ever been one DLC that had a plotline that was continued in another DLC that started where the first one left off. Basically, would Tallis' storyline be continued in another DLC?

The answer is that so far to the best of my knowledge that hasn't ever happened in Bioware's history.

You're talking about the main story of the DLC instead of the larger story arc. I can give you another, irrefutable example: Sandal.

Sandal has a story arc that has now spanned DA:O and DA2. Plus it has not intersected with Flemeth's story arc.

"The Old Lady is scary"