286 réponses à ce sujet

[Alanosborn1991]

If EA/BIOWARE continue to milk us for these pointless DLC's Dragon Age 3 is going to suffer and be so long that they will make even more DLC!

So Bioware why don't you get your act together already!

[FASherman]

Alanosborn1991 wrote...

If EA/BIOWARE continue to milk us for these pointless DLC's Dragon Age 3 is going to suffer and be so long that they will make even more DLC!

So Bioware why don't you get your act together already!

They should have three years worth of DLCs and expansions already planned, releasing a DLC every three months and an expansion at the 18 month point.

That would give them three years to work on DA3, giving it the attention if deserves. If they push another subpar release out in 18 months or less, then that will be the death of the franchise.

[AlexXIV]

FASherman wrote...

Alanosborn1991 wrote...

If EA/BIOWARE continue to milk us for these pointless DLC's Dragon Age 3 is going to suffer and be so long that they will make even more DLC!

So Bioware why don't you get your act together already!

They should have three years worth of DLCs and expansions already planned, releasing a DLC every three months and an expansion at the 18 month point.

That would give them three years to work on DA3, giving it the attention if deserves. If they push another subpar release out in 18 months or less, then that will be the death of the franchise.

DA:A showed that working on DLCs and the sequel at the same time is everything just not easy. So I doubt they are buying alot of time by making DLCs. Especially not with the expectations to both, the game and DLCs, people around here have now.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 20 octobre 2011 - 10:12 .

[Vlad_Dracul]

AlexXIV wrote...

FASherman wrote...

Alanosborn1991 wrote...

If EA/BIOWARE continue to milk us for these pointless DLC's Dragon Age 3 is going to suffer and be so long that they will make even more DLC!

So Bioware why don't you get your act together already!

They should have three years worth of DLCs and expansions already planned, releasing a DLC every three months and an expansion at the 18 month point.

That would give them three years to work on DA3, giving it the attention if deserves. If they push another subpar release out in 18 months or less, then that will be the death of the franchise.

DA:A showed that working on DLCs and the sequel at the same time is everything just not easy. So I doubt they are buying alot of time by making DLCs. Especially not with the expectations to both, the game and DLCs, people around here have now.

If you have enough employees, you dont have any problem. But I can imagine, that EA wants only more money from minimal investments, and, after all, Dragon Age, compared to company primary focus on Mass Effect and SWTOR, havent much priorities, I guess.

Modifié par Vlad_Dracul, 20 octobre 2011 - 11:33 .

[Gabey5]

wth she just walks away with the scroll...hawke is the most useless passive guy out there. Plot armour is not fun. We should have had the option to kill her or at least give us a half decent reason for hawke and his team just standing there. If bioware wanted to keep here alive fine but there should have been an option to take it where she lives. Like the Genophage data the option to keep it for the future. Even good guy hawke can keep his options open.

Modifié par Gabey5, 20 octobre 2011 - 06:59 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

bigSarg wrote...

ok, I think some people have missed the fact that certain things have to happen to further the storyline of the game and/or set up the storyline for the next DLC/game. Some things happen regardless of your choices, like with Meredith and Orsino, your choices have little effect on the storyline which feels more realistic to me than the alternative. Not being able to take the scroll from Tallis seems to me to be a minor thing and maybe it's going to lead to something in DA3 that has to happen in order to make DA3 somewhat logical. Also you have to remember that DA2 is being told as a story by Varric it is not happening as you play, so your getting his view of what happened or his version of what happened. Regardless I don't know why everyone is so upset about the ending of a DLC, if it has no affect on the main storyline or the next game, so who really cares? I do think that Tallis and the scroll are going to be part of DA3, or it will have something to do with the storyline.

I think you've missed the fact that most people don't actually want to obtain the scroll. They just want Hawke to attempt to obtain the scroll from Tallis if that option is chosen, and still fail to obtain it for whatever reason. If he attempted to obtain it in a valid way, then people would be content that he actually tried.

Right on point.  This is all that people wanted at the end and for Hawke not to be used as a sucker - once again.

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

So it's established that this is something that you, personally, wouldn't do it. I don't think that addresses that other people may have wanted their respective Hawke to do otherwise.

You know the old saying: Can't trust them damn Orlesians, especially when they're hanging off a cliff and insulting you.

But even if you did save him, I doubt he'd be grateful. He's Orlesian and Hawke's Fereldan. Orlesians look down upon Fereldans and his respect for Hawke was just a ploy from how I saw it.

So he's basically a stereotype, and that should mean Hawke's actions should carry no weight if the player wants to pursue a different course of action that actually has a different outcome? Leliana is culturally Orlesian, and that doesn't stop her from aiding The Warden, or even falling in love with the protagonist of Origins. In fact, the Surana Warden can encourage her to change her views on elves with one, single conversation.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

He'd probably attack Hawke again. Not out of insanity, but out of a fierce and smug sense of superiority.

Or he'd just run off to Empress Celene and say Hawke attacked him.

I don't think Hawke should've been able to side with Duke Prosper. I think Salit would've been a better person to side with.

Perhaps that would have been a more interesting course of action to be able to pursue. Again, I don't see why the New Vegas DLCs provide choices for players, while the Dragon Age 2 suffer from the same plot railroad and lack of significant choice that people had advocated against in the main game (and Laidlaw had acknowledged as a problem in his "Thank You" thread).

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

As for taking the scroll from Tallis, I don't believe we should always have a choice of doing whatever crosses our mind.

It truly amazes me how many times I must say that all people want is for Hawke to attempt to take the scroll -- by force preferably -- and still fail with Tallis still holding onto the scroll.

All people want is for Hawke to attempt to obtain it and for Tallis to still run away with it. The ending would be the same but the way it was handled would be different.

I think players would have appreciated having their choice to leave Tallis behind have a consequence besides nothing whatsoever - maybe executing a different action should have resulted in a different outcome. I think people are getting tired of Hawke's actions having the same outcome, no matter what he does.

[Vlad_Dracul]

Gabey5 wrote...

wth she just walks away with the scroll...hawke is the most useless passive guy out there. Plot armour is not fun. We should have had the option to kill her or at least give us a half decent reason for hawke and his team just standing there. If bioware wanted to keep here alive fine but there should have been an option to take it where she lives. Like the Genophage data the option to keep it for the future. Even good guy hawke can keep his options open.

Good example with Mordins mission. Every opened option you can closed in future, so have it cannot harm. Only decision is, that you will be friend Tallis or wont. So lame. Very tragical lame.

[Gabey5]

Vlad_Dracul wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

wth she just walks away with the scroll...hawke is the most useless passive guy out there. Plot armour is not fun. We should have had the option to kill her or at least give us a half decent reason for hawke and his team just standing there. If bioware wanted to keep here alive fine but there should have been an option to take it where she lives. Like the Genophage data the option to keep it for the future. Even good guy hawke can keep his options open.

Good example with Mordins mission. Every opened option you can closed in future, so have it cannot harm. Only decision is, that you will be friend Tallis or wont. So lame. Very tragical lame.

yeah i it would not be difficult to implement, but it seems it is canon that we are on good terms with Tallis.

[Joy Divison]

bigSarg wrote...

ok, I think some people have missed the fact that certain things have to happen to further the storyline of the game and/or set up the storyline for the next DLC/game. Some things happen regardless of your choices, like with Meredith and Orsino, your choices have little effect on the storyline which feels more realistic to me than the alternative. Not being able to take the scroll from Tallis seems to me to be a minor thing and maybe it's going to lead to something in DA3 that has to happen in order to make DA3 somewhat logical. Also you have to remember that DA2 is being told as a story by Varric it is not happening as you play, so your getting his view of what happened or his version of what happened. Regardless I don't know why everyone is so upset about the ending of a DLC, if it has no affect on the main storyline, so who really cares? I do think that Tallis and the scroll are going to be part of DA3, or it will have something to do with the storyline.

Edit:  Also some people seem to be under the impression that there are few choices in Legacy, that the end is set , which is not true, you have the option to let Corphyus go free with the Wardens or kill him if you side with Larius, I always kill him, just because you haven't experienced another alternative ending to something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

No.  We are well aware of the fact Bioware charges us money for an unfinished product where our choices are meaningless so that we have to buy future products to see how our non-choices panned out.

[Joy Divison]

Beerfish wrote...

The failing is not addressing the Tallis ending with a proper cutscene. Just letting her walk away was highly unsatisfying. All they need was to add two cutscenes, one where the hero is in agreement with her and lets her walk away and one where something plausible allows her to escape, whether it be one final attack with quanri where she slips away, her throwing down a smoke bomb and disappearing or whatever. They had to at least do something semi plausible to make me think that my Hawke couldnt get the scroll from her even though he is trying to.

Unfortunately all that does it make Tallis seem more uber and Hawke more useless which is an already annoying motif in this DLC and DA2.  Can't say I'm a big fan of NPC plot armor.

[Vlad_Dracul]

Five thousand views now, angry players there and outside this topic are everywhere, and still we havent there any answer from Bioware. At least immortal Mr. Woo could tell us his personal opinion about ruined MotA ending.

In the end of this theme, nothing cannot make good piece of story than decisions. Critics claimed, that chance to decide anything is logically more limited. Yes, this is necessary. Perhaps. But even this must be still a game, not an interactive movie! Every time, when I played rpg or strategy game, I supposed that I could decide things in  world from pixels and bytes, more or less.
Decision is most important element in every story in games, playing by human brains. Combat system, romances or graphic are nothing compared to story.

[Kenshen]

I was left disappointed by both MotA and act 3 for the same reasons as many here. It seems that a little more thought process into these endings would have helped a ton. For Orsino giving up and giving in it would have made more sense had it happened in battle just before getting cut down by another wave of templar. Make him truly desperate.

Same for Tallis. I would have been ok with if you pick the fight her to get scroll back option to get a cut scene of her using ninja like smokebomb and other stealth tricks to get away. That way the story can be locked with her getting the scroll yet us players get something for the effort. Even make it mean something down the road when she returns to the story. If you let her go she is a friend maybe even romancable. If you attempt to attack she is a rival and someone you will have to watch your back around.

Maybe that is too much to ask for but a few simple changes could have avoided so many complants. Then again people love to complain and will always find something to complain about.

[Yrkoon]

FASherman wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

FASherman wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

The inclusion of a web series just means that any loose plot threads from the DLC could conceivably be addressed in the web series.  Is that what you're hoping for?    No, I didn't think so.

How do you reach that conclusion? Are you a creative consultant fo the franchise? Or simply psycic able to see the next 30 months? You're drawing conclusions without any evidence to support it. You claim past history about something that by its very existance is a radical departure from past history.

Well,  the loose plot threads either get resolved in the web series, or they won't get resolved at all.

You will not see a MoTB2  (for example).  Bioware doesn't do DLC sequels.    You can call this baseless psychic ability, but I call it hindsight and track records.  Show me another time in Bioware's history where they've continued a DLC's plot into another  DLC or game sequel.

The Stone Prisoner & Golems of Amgarrak

Thanks for playing

What?    Stone Prisoner's plotline and Golems of Amgarrok's plotline aren't related at all. 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 octobre 2011 - 10:59 .

[Yrkoon]

FASherman wrote...


You're talking about the main story of the DLC instead of the larger story arc.'

The larger Story arc   (Shale.  Caradin's work) appears only in the Main Game  (Origins).

     

I can give you another, irrefutable example: Sandal.

Sandal doesn't have his own DLC, or his own DLC story... let alone his own DLC sequel.

Perhaps you should look up the definition of Irrefutable.


And maybe you should stick  to the point instead of dishonestly  moving the goalposts:

Sandal has a story arc that has now spanned DA:O and DA2. Plus it has not intersected with Flemeth's story arc.

"The Old Lady is scary"

Main Game Story arcs often continue in sequels and even expansions.  That's not unusual at all.  Is that what we were discussing? 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 octobre 2011 - 07:52 .

[Vlad_Dracul]

aryon69 wrote...

Maybe that is too much to ask for but a few simple changes could have avoided so many complants. Then again people love to complain and will always find something to complain about.

EA probably needs more customers at any cost. More kids and "simpler" people.

Juggling with rpg gamedesign is dangerous. Game for "simpler" people, or die hard fans. Nothing between them. But this is only my personal opinion. For example dialogue wheel is IMHO good thing, but when they didnt take decisions to player hands, this ISNT rpg game then.

Modifié par Vlad_Dracul, 22 octobre 2011 - 06:18 .

[TheRevanchist]

motomotogirl wrote...

While I was fine with Hawke's lack of choice (my Hawke is a nice guy and wouldn't have forced the issue, so I was fine with letting her go peacefully), I understand the OP's disappointment.

Probably this means Tallis will return, although killing someone hasn't stopped them from coming back before.

Hahaha...no kidding, Leliana, Anders, Wynne, Shale, Flemeth and more then likely The Warden. Yea hand waveing isn't really a problem for them.
 
Choice is a serious issue with the Dragon Age IP these days. The whole thing has become a railroaded adventure that you watch, rather then an adventure in which you participate. Hawke has no power to really do a damn thing the entire game. And no...you can't really choose to not help Tallis, because the game just railroads you into helping her anyway by having Hawke "stumple upon the meeting area" and Prosper being so stupid about not letting you go thanks to NPC plot railroad. This whole DLC was nothing more then Bioware fangasiming over freakin Felica Day, nothing more nothing less. Which is plainly obvious since her first apperence has her kill like ten people while you just stand there like some brain dead jack wagon going "Duuuuuuuh" with drool out the mouth, not to mention simpley casting more ridiculous attention at elves as "the ultimate sex objects" by having her wear armor that protects very little and throwing in a flirt option at every oppertunity.

[General User]

I too think that Hawke's inability to do anything with the real "Heart" other than allow Tallis to leave with it was more than a little off putting.

All the moreso since I thought Mark of the Assassin was an otherwise great DLC.

It was like watching an amazing drive ended by a fumble on the 1 yard line.

Modifié par General User, 23 octobre 2011 - 02:16 .

[giveamanafish...]

There is a story-line reason that Hawke wouldn't be interested in taking the scroll from Tallis in many playthrus.The OP wanted the option citing the fact that many Hawkes would be played as Qunari haters. But this DLC can be played at any stage in DAII and in the story until mid-way through Ch. II Hawke wouldn't have much reason to hate the Qunari. He/she is Ferelden meaning this would be her first contact with Qunari. The Arishok sort of cheated him out of a reward in Ch. I, but really that was Javaris' (?) the dwarf's fault. In Ch. II the Qunari do set a booby trap which results in mass death, but the actual hand in causing this is that of an anti-qunari fanatic. After the end of Ch. II hate could be justified, but thats 2/3 of the game. From a philosophical perspective Hawke might have cause to dislike the Qun before the end of Ch. II, but any hatred would be tempered by his/her experience protecting his sister from the Chantry -- that is she would probably want to reserve judgement. (The he - she thing is a politically correct affectation I kept from my university days, i like it because it confuses people)

Hawke might distrust both Tallis and the Qunari by the end of the DLC, or just want the loot for its cash value, but this would likely mean having to fight and possibly kill Tallis -- a extreme action considering what they had just been thru and probably only justifiable by a hatred of the Qunari That is the story based motivation would only apply in a minority of cases.

(I should note that I play offline -- hardcore, pause and play intuitive, 3 completed playthroughs -- using my alternate (or is it my real?) XBox personality. My profile doesn't reflect my experience or knowledge of the game.)

[Yrkoon]

ismoketoomuch wrote...
until mid-way through Ch. II Hawke wouldn't have much reason to hate the Qunari. He/she is Ferelden meaning this would be her first contact with Qunari..

Just a note here.  Hawke, specifically Does have contact with Qunari prior to chapter 1.  Or at least, a pre-conceived notion  of them.  He's from Lothering, and knows what Sten did.

Bethany points this out early on in the main game,  citing  the Qunari's (Sten's) massacre of a family in Lothering,  then saying something to the effect of  "I don't like Qunari much"

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:01 .

[TEWR]

Yrkoon wrote...

ismoketoomuch wrote...
until mid-way through Ch. II Hawke wouldn't have much reason to hate the Qunari. He/she is Ferelden meaning this would be her first contact with Qunari..

Just a note here.  Hawke, specifically Does have contact with Qunari prior to chapter 1.  Or at least, a pre-conceived notion  of them.  He's from Lothering, and knows what Sten did.

Bethany points this out early on in the main game,  citing  the Qunari's (Sten's) massacre of a family in Lothering,  then saying something to the effect of  "I don't like Qunari much"

not only that. one of the people Sten killed was a good friend of Bethany's.

Hawke has enough experience with them to hate them if roleplayed that way. Even Sten admits that he failed by painting the Qunari in the light of being monstrous murderers.

[lobi]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

ismoketoomuch wrote...
until mid-way through Ch. II Hawke wouldn't have much reason to hate the Qunari. He/she is Ferelden meaning this would be her first contact with Qunari..

Just a note here.  Hawke, specifically Does have contact with Qunari prior to chapter 1.  Or at least, a pre-conceived notion  of them.  He's from Lothering, and knows what Sten did.

Bethany points this out early on in the main game,  citing  the Qunari's (Sten's) massacre of a family in Lothering,  then saying something to the effect of  "I don't like Qunari much"

not only that. one of the people Sten killed was a good friend of Bethany's.

Hawke has enough experience with them to hate them if roleplayed that way. Even Sten admits that he failed by painting the Qunari in the light of being monstrous murderers.

The reason Hawk does not kill Tallis and take the scroll is mentioned in the DLC itself, Hawks group only kills 90% of who they meet.

Modifié par lobi, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:08 .

[Joy Divison]

lobi wrote...

The reason Hawk does not kill Tallis and take the scroll is mentioned in the DLC itself, Hawks group only kills 90% of who they meet.

I thought it was more like 98% :happy:

[lobi]

Joy Divison wrote...

lobi wrote...

The reason Hawk does not kill Tallis and take the scroll is mentioned in the DLC itself, Hawks group only kills 90% of who they meet.

I thought it was more like 98% :happy:

We need a counter like in HotShots

Modifié par lobi, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:28 .

[Vlad_Dracul]

Joy Divison wrote...

lobi wrote...

The reason Hawk does not kill Tallis and take the scroll is mentioned in the DLC itself, Hawks group only kills 90% of who they meet.

I thought it was more like 98% :happy:

it should be 100%, if you want it as well as all companions should be romanceable.:innocent:

decisions, decisions, DECISIONS!