286 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

As for Legacy's end choice, don't fool yourself into thinking it's a real decision; that sub-plot will ultimately also move in the same direction regardless of who you sided with, the only possible difference being which body Corypheus will inhabit when he next appears.

Yeah, though Hawke still felt somehow involved and it could change some (relatively minor) things. Such as the Grey Wardens most likely trusting a normal looking woman compared to a ghoul or the difference between magic and non-magic hosts.

Maybe it does nothing, least Hawke was able to DO something. 

[TheJediSaint]

Well, to look at it from another angle, I suspect that Bioware probably has a major storyline in the works that requires the Qunari sleeper cells to be intact.

[Dave of Canada]

That's why Hawke should've been able to do something, successful or not. Shanking Tallis and having her fall off the cliff with the scroll and disappear or trying to attack her but she disappears into the shadows and runs away with the scroll is better than having her simply say "No, we worked too hard on this. I'm not giving it to you." with Hawke nodding in agreement.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Master Shiori wrote...

I agree the option to try and take the scroll from her shouldn't even be there, since it's clear that Tallis getting that scroll is pretty much the point of the whole DLC.

And while there are situations where saying "no" ends up the same as saying "yes" (I take issues with Act 3 as a whole, not just the scene you mentioned), that doesn't mean that every situation where you cannot effect the outcome of something is, by definition, bad.

Oh, I agree. I enjoyed MotA quite a bit, but I do lament that this issue keeps cropping up so blatantly.

I agree with Brockololly in that Witch Hunt did the final choice well (or better, at any rate). For instance, if you chose to attack Morrigan, you bloody well attacked Morrigan.

There is no reason why choosing to attack Tallis, or attempting to seize the list of names, couldn't have resulted in her escaping (she even has anti-magic skills, so there's excellent reason for her getting away from spells). The point is it would have shown the PC at least trying to follow through instead of just spouting words and standing there as the NPC does whatever she wants.

It'll never compare with actual multiple endings, but it'll help make the PC look less ineffective.

(As far as the Duke is concerned, I like how he was dealt with much more. You *could* try to rescue him and reach out your hand, and it was his choice to strike at you. You could let him fall. You could step on his hand to aid his passage. In all paths he dies, but the PC is given actual action.)

[Sepewrath]

caradoc2000 wrote...

NovinhaShepard wrote...

There were more story choices in MotA than Witch Hunt and Legacy combined.

Doesn't change the fact that the big final choice was missing.

Missing? I was unaware it was required to have a big final choice.

[WhiteKnyght]

Vlad_Dracul wrote...


I dont mean Tallis. Shes funny. But, Bioware...Why you destroy very good DLC story by nonsence in ending? Again?

In Legacy, I thought, that Corypheus is alive. no matter what. Strange, but reasonable, cause Hawke hadnt knowledge about Blight and Archdemons. In Larius, he will be weaker and without support, in Janeka, he infiltrate Gray Wardens by his deadly influence. So there actually was a choice, after all. I hope.

BUT in MotA, there ISNT any choice,:

- i cant kill Tallis
- i cant punch Tallis
- i cant save Duke
- i cant take the scroll

For price 800, i have everything, but most important thing - big choices - i havent.

Is this some bug, like with Witch Hunt, where missed final savepoint?

Thanks for DLC, you pissed many players with default unchangeable ending, without good reason to explain.:innocent:

And if there actually IS some a  choice, can you be gentle and tell me WHERE? Would you kindly?

EDIT: This DLC is IMHO best DLC for DA2, better than DAO DLCs and Legacy. There is practically everything amazing - except Ending, and this is very sad for me.

Well if you kill Tallis how will she be in Redemption?

Didn't think about that now did ya dude?

Also I don't remember an option to spare Corypheus or to spare the Archdemon or Meredith.

[Isaidlunch]

I have to agree. I don't mind things being out of Hawke's control but I found it hard to believe an anti-qunari fanatic Hawke (which is a route supported in the main game) would just go "Oooh, a gem!" and let Tallis walk away casually with the scroll.

Modifié par Kazanth, 13 octobre 2011 - 02:23 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Boo-freakin-hoo

You know what the real problem with DAII and it's DLC is? At least half it's players are whiny little children.

You act like every single decision should have a major impact. Well when I butter my toast in the morning the direction I stroke the knife wont start a war.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 13 octobre 2011 - 02:28 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well if you kill Tallis how will she be in Redemption?

Redemption comes before MotA. That's when she's named 'Tallis' again.

[caradoc2000]

Sepewrath wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

Doesn't change the fact that the big final choice was missing.

Missing? I was unaware it was required to have a big final choice.

RPG's are all about (hopefully meaningful) choices. This DLC had exactly one possible conclusion - that Tallis waltzes away with the scroll.

[Mr.House]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

Doesn't change the fact that the big final choice was missing.

Missing? I was unaware it was required to have a big final choice.

RPG's are all about (hopefully meaningful) choices. This DLC had exactly one possible conclusion - that Tallis waltzes away with the scroll.

SO that gets rid of all teh other choices you could make?

[WhiteKnyght]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well if you kill Tallis how will she be in Redemption?

Redemption comes before MotA. That's when she's named 'Tallis' again.

Was that said in the DLC? If not, how can you tell.

The first episode of Redemption made it sound like she messed up something and lost her rights and name and to be an Aflak. Which kind of explains the title of the series.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

This DLC is a miniature of DA2 in everyway. It has some decent parts in it but when you reach the end you have no ability to change anything. Everything is scripted and you can do nothing but be forced down the road the Devs tell you to go. Can someone tell me how this game is a RPG again?

The fact the Devs know haw poorly DA2 has done compared to the orginal and they know why it is largly doing poorly is the lack of choice then to turn around and see a DLC that does the exact same thing makes me fear a repeat in DA3.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

As for Legacy's end choice, don't fool yourself into thinking it's a real decision; that sub-plot will ultimately also move in the same direction regardless of who you sided with, the only possible difference being which body Corypheus will inhabit when he next appears.

Yeah, though Hawke still felt somehow involved and it could change some (relatively minor) things. Such as the Grey Wardens most likely trusting a normal looking woman compared to a ghoul or the difference between magic and non-magic hosts.

Maybe it does nothing, least Hawke was able to DO something.

Yeah, I already gave them that much in my original post. It's still little more than a small comfort in the face of these odds, though.

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Boo-freakin-hoo

You know what the real problem with DAII and it's DLC is? At least half it's players are whiny little children.

You act like every single decision should have a major impact. Well when I butter my toast in the morning the direction I stroke the knife wont start a war.

Doesn't mean the toast should go all "No, I don't want you to butter me." and walk away.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 13 octobre 2011 - 02:50 .

[WhiteKnyght]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

This DLC is a miniature of DA2 in everyway. It has some decent parts in it but when you reach the end you have no ability to change anything. Everything is scripted and you can do nothing but be forced down the road the Devs tell you to go. Can someone tell me how this game is a RPG again?

The fact the Devs know haw poorly DA2 has done compared to the orginal and they know why it is largly doing poorly is the lack of choice then to turn around and see a DLC that does the exact same thing makes me fear a repeat in DA3.

Well you know one thing about real life? Some decisions change a lot of things. Other decisions will just lead to the same result.

You got the former in Origins, and DAII is the latter.

C'est la vie

[Bryy_Miller]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

Doesn't change the fact that the big final choice was missing.

Missing? I was unaware it was required to have a big final choice.

RPG's are all about (hopefully meaningful) choices. 

Choice in non-pen and paper RPGs are a relatively modern concept that started in Chrono Trigger.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

This DLC is a miniature of DA2 in everyway. It has some decent parts in it but when you reach the end you have no ability to change anything. Everything is scripted and you can do nothing but be forced down the road the Devs tell you to go. Can someone tell me how this game is a RPG again?

The fact the Devs know haw poorly DA2 has done compared to the orginal and they know why it is largly doing poorly is the lack of choice then to turn around and see a DLC that does the exact same thing makes me fear a repeat in DA3.

Well you know one thing about real life? Some decisions change a lot of things. Other decisions will just lead to the same result.

You got the former in Origins, and DAII is the latter.

C'est la vie

You know the fun thing about this descusion? Its about a game that isn't based in real life. It has dragons and magic and bisexual elves. Its also a game that claims to be an RPG, DA1 was and RPG you got to make choices that altered the story and changed the way the game ended. Would real life decisions always make the choice huge? Probably not... but real life wouldn't have giant spiders the size of small bears.

DA1 is a true RPG, because it was a true RPG it was a success. DA2 is not an RPG, beccause it wasn't it has become a failure.

If the Devs want to keep going down the 'RPG' road of DA2 than I hope they enjoy failures. If they want to make an actual RPG again than I'm sure they'll get a far better performing game.

[Mr.House]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

This DLC is a miniature of DA2 in everyway. It has some decent parts in it but when you reach the end you have no ability to change anything. Everything is scripted and you can do nothing but be forced down the road the Devs tell you to go. Can someone tell me how this game is a RPG again?

The fact the Devs know haw poorly DA2 has done compared to the orginal and they know why it is largly doing poorly is the lack of choice then to turn around and see a DLC that does the exact same thing makes me fear a repeat in DA3.

Well you know one thing about real life? Some decisions change a lot of things. Other decisions will just lead to the same result.

You got the former in Origins, and DAII is the latter.

C'est la vie

You know the fun thing about this descusion? Its about a game that isn't based in real life. It has dragons and magic and bisexual elves. Its also a game that claims to be an RPG, DA1 was and RPG you got to make choices that altered the story and changed the way the game ended. Would real life decisions always make the choice huge? Probably not... but real life wouldn't have giant spiders the size of small bears.

DA1 is a true RPG, because it was a true RPG it was a success. DA2 is not an RPG, beccause it wasn't it has become a failure.

If the Devs want to keep going down the 'RPG' road of DA2 than I hope they enjoy failures. If they want to make an actual RPG again than I'm sure they'll get a far better performing game.

:lol::lol:
Funny post.

[BubbleDncr]

The thing that bugged me is that I felt the rubbed it in your face that you didn't get a choice.

"Why didn't Hawke kill Tallis? I don't know. Cos she had he nose?"

"No, I didn't kill her cos the plot gods wouldn't let me."

[JJDrakken]

I am sorry, but I will tend to agree to a degree. One my hawkes, was full chantry supporter, flat out bigot to Qunari. She hated them, she managed to not only ally, but keep Mother Patrice alive & ask for her help, etc..

I think if you managed to go that route, you should been able to at the very least get the scroll(we don't have to kill Tallis, though if you went this route in DA2, should be an option).

JJ

[a1021]

Tallis is working for the Qunari secret police. How can anyone be "friends" with her? I also hated this ending, no matter if you are a anti-Qun fanatic or not, Tallis is your enemy. but i guess this is just the problem with a DLC where an NPC and not your character gets the leading part. I wanted to kill Tallis whe we were in that prison cell and she told me about her working with the Qunari secret police. I'm sorry, but from what she told me, they sound like some kind of medieval NKVD. I only "helped" her, so that i could find out what that secret is she was seeking and then taking it for myself, but she just said "no" and left...

[iheartbob]

Frankly, I do not see the point in having to choose between possible endings when we aren't guaranteed we will be able to see the fruits of the consequences play out.

This was a valid criticism in the game of DAII as a whole, but in a DLC like this it's one of those life lessons where you find out that no matter how much you stomp your feet up and down, pull out your hair, cry your eyes out, and scream like a child, you are not always going to get your way. I don't see a DLC coming out for this game that can take into account a multitude of choices without having a substantial effect on the game as a whole, unless it's an expansion. You can take more liberties with an expansion like Awakening that takes place post-campaign. Any DLC that can take place during any of the three main acts has to be able to have some continuity value without interrupting the flow of the established story.

[TobiTobsen]

a1021 wrote...

Tallis is working for the Qunari secret police. How can anyone be "friends" with her? I also hated this ending, no matter if you are a anti-Qun fanatic or not, Tallis is your enemy. but i guess this is just the problem with a DLC where an NPC and not your character gets the leading part. I wanted to kill Tallis whe we were in that prison cell and she told me about her working with the Qunari secret police. I'm sorry, but from what she told me, they sound like some kind of medieval NKVD. I only "helped" her, so that i could find out what that secret is she was seeking and then taking it for myself, but she just said "no" and left...

I tend to agree with that.
Don't see why everybody thinks the Duke is the big bad. You could say that the man was defending himself against a Qunari assassin and her accomplices. We all just helped a member of the Ben-Hassrath, the Qunari enforcers and indoctrinators, to withhold a list with the names of every Qunari spy in Thedas, or at least Orlais, from the authorities.

Have fun watching the Qunari kick some ass, thanks to their informations as soon as Thedas is busy with their Mage&Templar war.

[iheartbob]

TobiTobsen wrote...
Don't see why everybody thinks the Duke is the big bad. You could say that the man was defending himself against a Qunari assassin and her accomplices.

I don't know, when a guy locks me up in a dungeon presumably to starve and die, I can't see how he is anything other than a "bad guy." 

Modifié par iheartbob, 13 octobre 2011 - 05:56 .

[NichaelBluth]

iheartbob wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...
Don't see why everybody thinks the Duke is the big bad. You could say that the man was defending himself against a Qunari assassin and her accomplices.

I don't know, when a guy locks me up in a dungeon presumably to starve and die, I can't see how he is anything other than a "bad guy." 

From his point of view, he was imprisoning the person who aided the agent who was after him.