286 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

dreman9999 wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

She can easilly run.

Meaning we can make no difference whatsoever. Even the 'give me the scroll' options lead nowhere. As pointed out in this thread, even if I play the most ardent Qunari-hater, I can do nothing to prevent Tallis in her plot-armor from leaving with the scroll.

I'd like to point out that this isn't a major gripe for me, I liked the DLC. Nevertheless this continuous sense of powerlessness is starting to irritate.

Your still not understanding. Not everything has to be rule by our choice. The writers did not have to have you be able to take the scroll and kill Tillis. The event has herin a place she can escape.

No you're not understanding. No one's asking that Hawke succeed in taking the scroll. All we're asking is that when Hawke wants the scroll he tries to take it by force and still fails. That he actually does something more than be lazy at the end.

Saying "Hand it over" and then giving up when she says "No" is neither believable nor adequate. It's shoddy writing because not everyone will consider Tallis a friend at the end (especially Qunari haters). If Tallis is going to be shielded by plot armor, then the plot armor needs to be believable.

Trying to take something by force and failing for whatever reason (Qunari backup, ass gets whooped, etc) is much better than this:

• Hawke: I want that scroll!
• *stands still*
• Tallis: No.
• Hawke: Welp I tried everything I could think of!

This is one of DAII's biggest problems. Hawke does nothing in the moments where things should've been done. It was fine in Legacy because Hawke isn't an expert on the taint and no one's ever heard of a Darkspawn swapping bodies before. Only Archdemons. So it's fine that what the player knows Hawke doesn't know. But in MotA both the player and Hawke know the same thing.

[Dave of Canada]

Wulfram wrote...

Related to that, I'm sort of baffled by Varric's "Imagine the scandal if that was known" at the end. What scandal?

That Empress Celene would consort with the Tal'vasoth.

[The dead fish]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

She can easilly run.

Meaning we can make no difference whatsoever. Even the 'give me the scroll' options lead nowhere. As pointed out in this thread, even if I play the most ardent Qunari-hater, I can do nothing to prevent Tallis in her plot-armor from leaving with the scroll.

I'd like to point out that this isn't a major gripe for me, I liked the DLC. Nevertheless this continuous sense of powerlessness is starting to irritate.

Your still not understanding. Not everything has to be rule by our choice. The writers did not have to have you be able to take the scroll and kill Tillis. The event has herin a place she can escape.

No you're not understanding. No one's asking that Hawke succeed in taking the scroll. All we're asking is that when Hawke wants the scroll he tries to take it by force and still fails. That he actually does something more than be lazy at the end.

Saying "Hand it over" and then giving up when she says "No" is neither believable nor adequate. It's shoddy writing because not everyone will consider Tallis a friend at the end (especially Qunari haters). If Tallis is going to be shielded by plot armor, then the plot armor needs to be believable.

Trying to take something by force and failing for whatever reason (Qunari backup, ass gets whooped, etc) is much better than this:

• Hawke: I want that scroll!
• *stands still*
• Tallis: No.
• Hawke: Welp I tried everything I could think of!

This is one of DAII's biggest problems. Hawke does nothing in the moments where things should've been done. It was fine in Legacy because Hawke isn't an expert on the taint and no one's ever heard of a Darkspawn swapping bodies before. Only Archdemons. So it's fine that what the player knows Hawke doesn't know. But in MotA both the player and Hawke know the same thing.

Pretty much this. I didn't see that scene because I didn't want to help tallis ( the end is also terrible anyways , Hawk is like a moron because he falls on his ennemies he wanted to avoid, oops, too bad, my sense of direction must be terrible to fall on those that I wanted to avoid  )  but I would have been pissed of. My characters are anti Qunari, sided with Petrice, support of the chantry and I like Orlesians. I would have tried to negotiate with the Empress Celene, or would have tried to sell the list. Whatever, the most important thing, is Tallis is among our ennemies, and if I believe what is said here, that's lame to me.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 13 octobre 2011 - 01:01 .

[Vlad_Dracul]

So I am not alone in opinion, that this magnificent DLC had needlessly foolish and embarrasing End wher Hawke looks like a moron, no mater what? Good to know.

[TEWR]

Vlad_Dracul wrote...

So I am not alone in opinion, that this magnificent DLC had needlessly foolish and embarrasing End wher Hawke looks like a moron, no mater what? Good to know.

Indeed. I mean, all of my Hawkes will consider her a friend, but I'm arguing for Bioware to at least make it believable for the plot armor to be strong with someone because it's the principle that matters to me.

[Mykel54]

I don´t usually defend bioware for things like this, and i agree that the DLC lacks consequences, however it doesn´t lack choices. I think it is important to distinguish between the two, here are a few examples of choices in the DLC that don´t matter a great deal (if anything) in the long run, but they are choices nonetheless:

-Hawke can choose how to treat Tallis, he may flirt with her, be friendly, be antagonist, and agree or disagree with her plans (when you choose to follow tallis or not), question or not her motives etc. the choice here is that you can roleplay hawke, and you are not forced into friendship or romance with Tallis.

-You can kill the "mine,mine,mine" baron at the beginning, so you won´t encounter him later on. Again this let´s you roleplay how your hawke acts even if the consequences are nothing.

-You can choose how to interact with the party guests and the other npcs, so your hawke can make a lot of jokes or not, or can handle some situations differently, like sneaking into the castle or not (the result is the same however).

So yeah i agree that the DLC lacked consequences, but so then did the main game, for example when you give Isabela to the Arishok, you then hear Varric say that she escaped shortly after. So no real point in that choice either. It could have been handled better, like Hawke fighting Tallis over the scroll and perhaps it was lost in the fighting (it could fall the same way the duke did) so no one would end having it.

I agree that this was a weak point of the dlc, but i still think it was one the best DA2 dlcs so far, and the lack of consequence is no new, it happened in prior DLCs like say Legacy (the warden you pick end up possesed anyway). So yeah i can understand your point, but i think the DLC offer at least the chance of showing what your hawke thinks (like threatening Tallis), even if the consequences are not there. It would have been way worse if you were forced into friendship with Tallis, or forced to agree with her at everything.

I think bioware did a decent job but it could have had a better delivery (like the example i put with the scroll being lost) in order to acommodate better all players.

[ThePasserby]

While the ending has demonstrated yet again that Hawke is but a pawn, for me, it is evident that a game that is about telling the story of a land, in this case, Thedas, is ultimately unsatisfying, because the PC isn't the real protagonist. The writers' vison isn't centred on the PC, but on the larger politcal events happneing around him, which neccessitates the PC being at best a bystander.

Hawke watches, haplessly, as the mage-templar conflict escalates. Hawke watches as Kirkwall burns. Hawke watches as he finds himself an unwitting agent of Corypheus' freedom from his bonds. Hawkes watches as the list of Qunari agents slip away, only this time, he doesn't even try to stop it anymore. It's like he finally gets it - that he isn't the star of even his own story, so why bother trying to stop the inevitable anymore.

Maybe others have seen it before me, but I'm beginning to realise that if DA3 is also focused on telling the story of Thedas with the PC as just another pawn, then it's not the game for me. It's not my cup of tea, to roleplay a character that the writers have already decided to be a bystander.

[llandwynwyn]

I understand why we can't get the scroll. But I see no reason why Hawke should've not tried to get it. Make her fail or win just to realise she "won" a fake scroll. Anything is better than a lol nope.

Modifié par llandwynwyn, 13 octobre 2011 - 03:38 .

[dreman9999]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

She can easilly run.

Meaning we can make no difference whatsoever. Even the 'give me the scroll' options lead nowhere. As pointed out in this thread, even if I play the most ardent Qunari-hater, I can do nothing to prevent Tallis in her plot-armor from leaving with the scroll.

I'd like to point out that this isn't a major gripe for me, I liked the DLC. Nevertheless this continuous sense of powerlessness is starting to irritate.

Your still not understanding. Not everything has to be rule by our choice. The writers did not have to have you be able to take the scroll and kill Tillis. The event has herin a place she can escape.

No you're not understanding. No one's asking that Hawke succeed in taking the scroll. All we're asking is that when Hawke wants the scroll he tries to take it by force and still fails. That he actually does something more than be lazy at the end.

Saying "Hand it over" and then giving up when she says "No" is neither believable nor adequate. It's shoddy writing because not everyone will consider Tallis a friend at the end (especially Qunari haters). If Tallis is going to be shielded by plot armor, then the plot armor needs to be believable.

Trying to take something by force and failing for whatever reason (Qunari backup, ass gets whooped, etc) is much better than this:

• Hawke: I want that scroll!
• *stands still*
• Tallis: No.
• Hawke: Welp I tried everything I could think of!

This is one of DAII's biggest problems. Hawke does nothing in the moments where things should've been done. It was fine in Legacy because Hawke isn't an expert on the taint and no one's ever heard of a Darkspawn swapping bodies before. Only Archdemons. So it's fine that what the player knows Hawke doesn't know. But in MotA both the player and Hawke know the same thing.

But the second he runs after her, she can easilly run. I understand you wanted to do something but the end would of been the same, her leaving with the scroll.

[Killjoy Cutter]

ThePasserby wrote...

While the ending has demonstrated yet again that Hawke is but a pawn, for me, it is evident that a game that is about telling the story of a land, in this case, Thedas, is ultimately unsatisfying, because the PC isn't the real protagonist. The writers' vison isn't centred on the PC, but on the larger politcal events happneing around him, which neccessitates the PC being at best a bystander.

Hawke watches, haplessly, as the mage-templar conflict escalates. Hawke watches as Kirkwall burns. Hawke watches as he finds himself an unwitting agent of Corypheus' freedom from his bonds. Hawkes watches as the list of Qunari agents slip away, only this time, he doesn't even try to stop it anymore. It's like he finally gets it - that he isn't the star of even his own story, so why bother trying to stop the inevitable anymore.

Maybe others have seen it before me, but I'm beginning to realise that if DA3 is also focused on telling the story of Thedas with the PC as just another pawn, then it's not the game for me. It's not my cup of tea, to roleplay a character that the writers have already decided to be a bystander.

That's my real issue with DA2... you're a spectator for the story that Bioware is telling.  You're not driving the plot, you're just there for the ride.  Sure, you get to choose between the chicken, beef, and fish dinners, and whether to watch the in-flight movie, but you're not flying the plane, and it's going where the pilot decides, when the pilot decides, and you can STFD and STFU. 

Hawke is a badass, but as a player, I often felt powerless, as obvious paths of action are denied to me, and the game predicably goes to cut-scene at crucial moments. 


Perfect example that is rarely mentioned:  after Izzy gets her ship from the Castillon, Hawke, Varric, and Fenris could try to track him down and enact a little justice later, but you're never given that option. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 13 octobre 2011 - 04:06 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

While my Hawke figured it was worth helping Tallis, it does strike me as awkward that you're essentially forced to ally with her especially when her allegiance should rightfully put her at odds with Hawke and most of humanity. She picked Hawke because she figured Fereldens are enemies or Orlais but honestly The Qunari are greater adversaries to both, even across the world. So going politically Hawke should be more eager to aide the Duke against Tallis.

The concept character seemed a little weird at times. Not that i don't buy the concept of a female elf assassin Qunari convert per say, but the plot essentially treats her like she's your friend when she's on the side of the antagonists.

Un....The qunari are a unique folk. To them someone ageinst them is not an enemy,it's the ones ageinst order who are their enemy. As she put's it, not all Qunari agree.  What happen in kirkwall would not be seen as an attack on the qunari but just a city defending themselves, the would not be at odds with anyone over it.
Also, the qunari are not the antiagonist or the bad guys. They just have a massively different veiw in life than you.

Tallis says that not all Qunari agree and that it's the Ben-Hassrath's job is to ensure that disagreements are minimized.

I also don't think think the Qunari are "bad guys" per say but I'm farily confident that they are going to be future adversaries of the series. The fact is their goal is still to conquer all of Thedas and being everyone to the Qun. And while Qunari are not racist, this makes them enemies of humanity in a political sense at least. Tallis and Hawke just did them a great service by denying Orlais a weapon against the inevitable invasion, even if it was for humanitarian purposes. I think ideally Hawke should have been able to make an issue of the scroll even if he or she wasn't actually able to obtain if from Tallis. It could have been something as simple as the decision with the Saarebas from Act 1. You always burns himself but he reacts differently whether you "let him" or not.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 13 octobre 2011 - 04:03 .

[TEWR]

dreman9999 wrote...

But the second he runs after her, she can easilly run. I understand you wanted to do something but the end would of been the same, her leaving with the scroll.

I know she would still have the scroll. But my point is it would've been more believable because Hawke would at least try to do something to save Thedas against the threat of a Qunari invasion considering the Arishok says "One day... we shall return.".

Now that Hawke knows that there are Qunari sleeper cells spread throughout Thedas, the threat of an invasion seems certain. Thus for those Hawkes who want the scroll, action should be taken. It can still fail to succeed, but it shows that Hawke is at least trying his hardest to do something about it.

Trying to obtain something and failing is much better than doing nothing at all. I could handle Tallis leaving with the scroll if there was a believable reason for why Hawke couldn't get it. But him simply saying "Welp I tried" is not believable.

If Bioware wants to have a plan for something that the PC cannot change from happening (Tallis taking the scroll), they need to make it believable. They did it with Legacy, so why couldn't they do it in MotA considering they were taking their time to make this DLC?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 octobre 2011 - 04:04 .

[Mr.House]

People whined that Leli and Anders where back because some people killed them. Now people whine because Tallis is always alive(which means there will be more for her in the future) and they can't get a scroll because tallis refuses to give it. Bioware can't win. People want choices EVERYWHERE. That's not Bioware, go play a Bethsda game if you want choices that impact or have meaning. Choices in Bioware games have never been there strong point.

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But the second he runs after her, she can easilly run. I understand you wanted to do something but the end would of been the same, her leaving with the scroll.

I know she would still have the scroll. But my point is it would've been more believable because Hawke would at least try to do something to save Thedas against the threat of a Qunari invasion considering the Arishok says "One day... we shall return.".

Now that Hawke knows that there are Qunari sleeper cells spread throughout Thedas, the threat of an invasion seems certain. Thus for those Hawkes who want the scroll, action should be taken. It can still fail to succeed, but it shows that Hawke is at least trying his hardest to do something about it.

Trying to obtain something and failing is much better than doing nothing at all. I could handle Tallis leaving with the scroll if there was a believable reason for why Hawke couldn't get it. But him simply saying "Welp I tried" is not believable.

If Bioware wants to have a plan for something that the PC cannot change from happening (Tallis taking the scroll), they need to make it believable. They did it with Legacy, so why couldn't they do it in MotA considering they were taking their time to make this DLC?

I didn't feel that way with Legacy. In fact I felt Hawke was more stupid at the end of Legacy then MoA. In MoA we are dealing with a character who has strong beleifs, it's nothing like Legacy where someone is possesed and acting strange RIGHT IN FRONT of Hawke. I played a anti Qunari Hawke, he didn't care abotu the scroll, he wanted to kill but changed his mind and decided to let her go, but tellnig her he never wants to see her again. I don't feel any choice I made was useless.

[TEWR]

Mr.House wrote...

People whined that Leli and Anders where back because some people killed them. Now people whine because Tallis is always alive(which means there will be more for her in the future) and they can't get a scroll because tallis refuses to give it. Bioware can't win. People want choices EVERYWHERE. That's not Bioware, go play a Bethsda game if you want choices that impact or have meaning. Choices in Bioware games have never been there strong point.

Aside from the OP, no one that I've seen is advocating wanting to kill Tallis. Taking something by force doesn't mean people always have to die. People just want Hawke to fail in a believable fashion if they choose to have him want the scroll.

Hawke could fail through other methods other than him getting into a fight and losing:

1) Tallis just runs away
2) A Qunari entourage finds Tallis and brings her back to the Ben-Hassrath, and the numbers are too much for Hawke to handle
3) Tallis eats the scroll

and so on and so forth.

[dreman9999]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But the second he runs after her, she can easilly run. I understand you wanted to do something but the end would of been the same, her leaving with the scroll.

I know she would still have the scroll. But my point is it would've been more believable because Hawke would at least try to do something to save Thedas against the threat of a Qunari invasion considering the Arishok says "One day... we shall return.".

Now that Hawke knows that there are Qunari sleeper cells spread throughout Thedas, the threat of an invasion seems certain. Thus for those Hawkes who want the scroll, action should be taken. It can still fail to succeed, but it shows that Hawke is at least trying his hardest to do something about it.

Trying to obtain something and failing is much better than doing nothing at all. I could handle Tallis leaving with the scroll if there was a believable reason for why Hawke couldn't get it. But him simply saying "Welp I tried" is not believable.

If Bioware wants to have a plan for something that the PC cannot change from happening (Tallis taking the scroll), they need to make it believable. They did it with Legacy, so why couldn't they do it in MotA considering they were taking their time to make this DLC?

Then complaing about this is spliting hairs. That's my point.
Also, that would not happen because Talis is working on her own....Wiht no back up. If she had back up, she would never need Hawk.

Modifié par dreman9999, 13 octobre 2011 - 04:16 .

[dreman9999]

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But the second he runs after her, she can easilly run. I understand you wanted to do something but the end would of been the same, her leaving with the scroll.

I know she would still have the scroll. But my point is it would've been more believable because Hawke would at least try to do something to save Thedas against the threat of a Qunari invasion considering the Arishok says "One day... we shall return.".

Now that Hawke knows that there are Qunari sleeper cells spread throughout Thedas, the threat of an invasion seems certain. Thus for those Hawkes who want the scroll, action should be taken. It can still fail to succeed, but it shows that Hawke is at least trying his hardest to do something about it.

Trying to obtain something and failing is much better than doing nothing at all. I could handle Tallis leaving with the scroll if there was a believable reason for why Hawke couldn't get it. But him simply saying "Welp I tried" is not believable.

If Bioware wants to have a plan for something that the PC cannot change from happening (Tallis taking the scroll), they need to make it believable. They did it with Legacy, so why couldn't they do it in MotA considering they were taking their time to make this DLC?

I didn't feel that way with Legacy. In fact I felt Hawke was more stupid at the end of Legacy then MoA. In MoA we are dealing with a character who has strong beleifs, it's nothing like Legacy where someone is possesed and acting strange RIGHT IN FRONT of Hawke. I played a anti Qunari Hawke, he didn't care abotu the scroll, he wanted to kill but changed his mind and decided to let her go, but tellnig her he never wants to see her again. I don't feel any choice I made was useless.

With legacy, it's more of the point that the only way out of the prison was to kill the prisoner. That could not be avoided.

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

People whined that Leli and Anders where back because some people killed them. Now people whine because Tallis is always alive(which means there will be more for her in the future) and they can't get a scroll because tallis refuses to give it. Bioware can't win. People want choices EVERYWHERE. That's not Bioware, go play a Bethsda game if you want choices that impact or have meaning. Choices in Bioware games have never been there strong point.

Aside from the OP, no one that I've seen is advocating wanting to kill Tallis. Taking something by force doesn't mean people always have to die. People just want Hawke to fail in a believable fashion if they choose to have him want the scroll.

Hawke could fail through other methods other than him getting into a fight and losing:

1) Tallis just runs away
2) A Qunari entourage finds Tallis and brings her back to the Ben-Hassrath, and the numbers are too much for Hawke to handle
3) Tallis eats the scroll

and so on and so forth.

Knowing Biwoares track record with that stuff, it would have resulted in Tallis dieing. Peopel should just get used to Bioware and there illusion of choices.

[Mr.House]

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But the second he runs after her, she can easilly run. I understand you wanted to do something but the end would of been the same, her leaving with the scroll.

I know she would still have the scroll. But my point is it would've been more believable because Hawke would at least try to do something to save Thedas against the threat of a Qunari invasion considering the Arishok says "One day... we shall return.".

Now that Hawke knows that there are Qunari sleeper cells spread throughout Thedas, the threat of an invasion seems certain. Thus for those Hawkes who want the scroll, action should be taken. It can still fail to succeed, but it shows that Hawke is at least trying his hardest to do something about it.

Trying to obtain something and failing is much better than doing nothing at all. I could handle Tallis leaving with the scroll if there was a believable reason for why Hawke couldn't get it. But him simply saying "Welp I tried" is not believable.

If Bioware wants to have a plan for something that the PC cannot change from happening (Tallis taking the scroll), they need to make it believable. They did it with Legacy, so why couldn't they do it in MotA considering they were taking their time to make this DLC?

I didn't feel that way with Legacy. In fact I felt Hawke was more stupid at the end of Legacy then MoA. In MoA we are dealing with a character who has strong beleifs, it's nothing like Legacy where someone is possesed and acting strange RIGHT IN FRONT of Hawke. I played a anti Qunari Hawke, he didn't care abotu the scroll, he wanted to kill but changed his mind and decided to let her go, but tellnig her he never wants to see her again. I don't feel any choice I made was useless.

With legacy, it's more of the point that the only way out of the prison was to kill the prisoner. That could not be avoided.

What does that have to do with Cory having a new body and not hiding it from Hawke? Hawke is just like oh ok, go ahead! With no chocie to do anything.

[dreman9999]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

While my Hawke figured it was worth helping Tallis, it does strike me as awkward that you're essentially forced to ally with her especially when her allegiance should rightfully put her at odds with Hawke and most of humanity. She picked Hawke because she figured Fereldens are enemies or Orlais but honestly The Qunari are greater adversaries to both, even across the world. So going politically Hawke should be more eager to aide the Duke against Tallis.

The concept character seemed a little weird at times. Not that i don't buy the concept of a female elf assassin Qunari convert per say, but the plot essentially treats her like she's your friend when she's on the side of the antagonists.

Un....The qunari are a unique folk. To them someone ageinst them is not an enemy,it's the ones ageinst order who are their enemy. As she put's it, not all Qunari agree.  What happen in kirkwall would not be seen as an attack on the qunari but just a city defending themselves, the would not be at odds with anyone over it.
Also, the qunari are not the antiagonist or the bad guys. They just have a massively different veiw in life than you.

Tallis says that not all Qunari agree and that it's the Ben-Hassrath's job is to ensure that disagreements are minimized.

I also don't think think the Qunari are "bad guys" per say but I'm farily confident that they are going to be future adversaries of the series. The fact is their goal is still to conquer all of Thedas and being everyone to the Qun. And while Qunari are not racist, this makes them enemies of humanity in a political sense at least. Tallis and Hawke just did them a great service by denying Orlais a weapon against the inevitable invasion, even if it was for humanitarian purposes. I think ideally Hawke should have been able to make an issue of the scroll even if he or she wasn't actually able to obtain if from Tallis. It could have been something as simple as the decision with the Saarebas from Act 1. You always burns himself but he reacts differently whether you "let him" or not.

Qunari is not race...It's a religion. The only contest they have is with the chantry. Also, humans are not the only focus of the religion. There other race in their world.
But thing is you just asking for more detail in the extange......That I can understand but it does not make the game bad to not have that detail.

Modifié par dreman9999, 13 octobre 2011 - 04:21 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

[quote]LookingGlass93 wrote...

[quote]a1021 wrote...

Tallis is working for the Qunari secret police. How can anyone be "friends" with her?
[/quote]


If you can be friends with: 

the guy who betrayed Duncan at Ostagar; [/quote]Killed him, or had him killed.

[quote]a guy who was sent by the Crows to kill you; [/quote]Killed him.

[quote]a soldier who fully expects his people to invade one day;[/quote]Left the beast in its cage.

[quote]a manipulative and deceitful apostate;[/quote]Kicked her out of the group when she showed her true colors.

[quote]a woman who attacks human caravans for no reason;[/quote]Who actually had a fairly good reason to do so.

[quote]a walking corpse;[/quote]But one who's been on your side for a while by the time he ends up as such, and even then has a strong sense of justice, duty and honor.

[quote]an abomination;[/quote]Seemed to be in control of himself for most of the game, killed after his transgression.

[quote]and a woman who works with demons;[/quote]Whom I wouldn't have minded to kill off early on, instead of being forced to go on her insane quests time and again.

[quote]then you can be friends with Tallis.[/quote]I actually like what they did with her (quite the accomplishment, as I don't give a damn about this "Felicia Day), but no post-Act II Hawke would let a Qunari have her way with him.


[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]caradoc2000 wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

She can easilly run.[/quote] Meaning we can make no difference whatsoever. Even the 'give me the scroll' options lead nowhere. As pointed out in this thread, even if I play the most ardent Qunari-hater, I can do nothing to prevent Tallis in her plot-armor from leaving with the scroll.

I'd like to point out that this isn't a major gripe for me, I liked the DLC. Nevertheless this continuous sense of powerlessness is starting to irritate.

[/quote]Your still not understanding. Not everything has to be rule by our choice. The writers did not have to have you be able to take the scroll and kill Tillis. The event has herin a place she can escape.[/quote]
And that where you're wrong: the player should be able to directly influence the majority of the events. If that's not the case, they what in the Maker's name is the added value of playing a BioWare game, when you could just as well play another linear beat-'m-up/hack-'n-slash, albeit one with better combat mechanics?


[quote]Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I'm wondering if there was a different version of this end that didn't make the cut.

Reason I say this is the Mark of the Assassin achievement is: "Defeat Duke Prosper with or without Tallis." which implies to me there should be, or once was, an alternate ending. Maybe where Tallis doesn't help Hawke (if Hawke left her at the caves) and bolts once she has the scroll.[/quote]
Hmm, interesting. Still, that doesn't change how they messed up with the product we eventually got.

Again.

[dreman9999]

[quote]Kaiser Shepard wrote...

[quote]LookingGlass93 wrote...

[quote]a1021 wrote...

Tallis is working for the Qunari secret police. How can anyone be "friends" with her?
[/quote]


If you can be friends with: 

the guy who betrayed Duncan at Ostagar; [/quote]Killed him, or had him killed.

[quote]a guy who was sent by the Crows to kill you; [/quote]Killed him.

[quote]a soldier who fully expects his people to invade one day;[/quote]Left the beast in its cage.

[quote]a manipulative and deceitful apostate;[/quote]Kicked her out of the group when she showed her true colors.

[quote]a woman who attacks human caravans for no reason;[/quote]Who actually had a fairly good reason to do so.

[quote]a walking corpse;[/quote]But one who's been on your side for a while by the time he ends up as such, and even then has a strong sense of justice, duty and honor.

[quote]an abomination;[/quote]Seemed to be in control of himself for most of the game, killed after his transgression.

[quote]and a woman who works with demons;[/quote]Whom I wouldn't have minded to kill off early on, instead of being forced to go on her insane quests time and again.

[quote]then you can be friends with Tallis.[/quote]I actually like what they did with her (quite the accomplishment, as I don't give a damn about this "Felicia Day), but no post-Act II Hawke would let a Qunari have her way with him.


[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]caradoc2000 wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

She can easilly run.[/quote] Meaning we can make no difference whatsoever. Even the 'give me the scroll' options lead nowhere. As pointed out in this thread, even if I play the most ardent Qunari-hater, I can do nothing to prevent Tallis in her plot-armor from leaving with the scroll.

I'd like to point out that this isn't a major gripe for me, I liked the DLC. Nevertheless this continuous sense of powerlessness is starting to irritate.

[/quote]Your still not understanding. Not everything has to be rule by our choice. The writers did not have to have you be able to take the scroll and kill Tillis. The event has herin a place she can escape.[/quote]
And that where you're wrong: the player should be able to directly influence the majority of the events. If that's not the case, they what in the Maker's name is the added value of playing a BioWare game, when you could just as well play another linear beat-'m-up/hack-'n-slash, albeit one with better combat mechanics?


[quote]Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I'm wondering if there was a different version of this end that didn't make the cut.

Reason I say this is the Mark of the Assassin achievement is: "Defeat Duke Prosper with or without Tallis." which implies to me there should be, or once was, an alternate ending. Maybe where Tallis doesn't help Hawke (if Hawke left her at the caves) and bolts once she has the scroll.[/quote]
Hmm, interesting. Still, that doesn't change how they messed up with the product we eventually got.

Again.
[/quote]You not understanding. I'm not saying that the player can't have choices, just that not everything has to be controled by the player. You don't need to control everything, wanting to do so is a perferance.

[Mr.House]

dreman9999 wrote...
]You not understanding. I'm not saying that the player can't have choices, just that not everything has to be controled by the player. You don't need to control everything, wanting to do so is a perferance.

[TEWR]

Mr.House wrote...

I didn't feel that way with Legacy. In fact I felt Hawke was more stupid at the end of Legacy then MoA. In MoA we are dealing with a character who has strong beleifs, it's nothing like Legacy where someone is possesed and acting strange RIGHT IN FRONT of Hawke. I played a anti Qunari Hawke, he didn't care abotu the scroll, he wanted to kill but changed his mind and decided to let her go, but tellnig her he never wants to see her again. I don't feel any choice I made was useless.

You have to understand though Hawke isn't a Warden and has no knowledge of the taint, and none of the Wardens that exist now have ever heard of a Darkspawn swapping bodies and possessing someone. Only the Old Gods are known to do that, and in the process both souls perish.

I'm not saying that a person can't roleplay their Hawkes -- especially their anti-Qunari Hawkes -- differently to allow Tallis to leave. But what if you wanted the scroll? What then? Would you be content with Hawke accepting an "lol nope"?

That's what I'm getting at. For those people who want the scroll (especially anti-Qunari Hawkes), they can't take it. And for that Bioware needs to make the player fail in a believable fashion.

[jlb524]

Mr.House wrote...
What does that have to do with Cory having a new body and not hiding it from Hawke? Hawke is just like oh ok, go ahead! With no chocie to do anything.

You assume Hawke knows anything is odd.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
That's what I'm getting
at. For those people who want the scroll (especially anti-Qunari
Hawkes), they can't take it. And for that Bioware needs to make the
player fail in a believable fashion.

They could have even shown Hawke lunging for Tallis with her disappearing using that smoke/jump-real-high thing she has going for her.

Modifié par jlb524, 13 octobre 2011 - 04:34 .