286 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

jlb524 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
What does that have to do with Cory having a new body and not hiding it from Hawke? Hawke is just like oh ok, go ahead! With no chocie to do anything.

You assume Hawke knows anything is odd.

I'm not convinced Corypheus even actually pulled a body-switch. I think a lot of people are just itching for a conspiracy when there is none.

[Kaiser Shepard]

dreman9999 wrote...

You not understanding. I'm not saying that the player can't have choices, just that not everything has to be controled by the player. You don't need to control everything, wanting to do so is a perferance.

But there is no control of anything at all, no roleplaying whatsoever. At that point, why bother with mediocrity in both gameplay and storytelling when I could just as well play the likes of Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, God of War and Dante's Inferno?

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 13 octobre 2011 - 04:35 .

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I didn't feel that way with Legacy. In fact I felt Hawke was more stupid at the end of Legacy then MoA. In MoA we are dealing with a character who has strong beleifs, it's nothing like Legacy where someone is possesed and acting strange RIGHT IN FRONT of Hawke. I played a anti Qunari Hawke, he didn't care abotu the scroll, he wanted to kill but changed his mind and decided to let her go, but tellnig her he never wants to see her again. I don't feel any choice I made was useless.

You have to understand though Hawke isn't a Warden and has no knowledge of the taint, and none of the Wardens that exist now have ever heard of a Darkspawn swapping bodies and possessing someone. Only the Old Gods are known to do that, and in the process both souls perish.

I'm not saying that a person can't roleplay their Hawkes -- especially their anti-Qunari Hawkes -- differently to allow Tallis to leave. But what if you wanted the scroll? What then? Would you be content with Hawke accepting an "lol nope"?

That's what I'm getting at. For those people who want the scroll (especially anti-Qunari Hawkes), they can't take it. And for that Bioware needs to make the player fail in a believable fashion.

Josh didn't even have to option to have to ask for the scroll, nor did he know the full details about it, so I see no issues here. This dlc did not harm my Hawkes at all.

[Mr.House]

jlb524 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
What does that have to do with Cory having a new body and not hiding it from Hawke? Hawke is just like oh ok, go ahead! With no chocie to do anything.

You assume Hawke knows anything is odd.

Hawke can ask Larius why he is acting strange now and he gives a bs excuse and Hawke can't drill anymore. Jeneka says I feel like a new person, that set warrning bells in my Hawkes head yet she can't say anything. Hawke should have been able to ask but Hawke just sits there like

At least with MoA Hawke can at least do something, is well done? No but at least it's there.

[jlb524]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
What does that have to do with Cory having a new body and not hiding it from Hawke? Hawke is just like oh ok, go ahead! With no chocie to do anything.

You assume Hawke knows anything is odd.

I'm not convinced Corypheus even actually pulled a body-switch. I think a lot of people are just itching for a conspiracy when there is none.

Yeah, the evidence is weak even from our perspective and Hawke isn't privy to the same things we are (s/he couldn't see Larius/Janeka twitching, for example).

Mr.House wrote...

Hawke can ask Larius why he is acting strange now and he gives a bs excuse and Hawke can't drill anymore.  Jeneka says I feel like a new person, that set warrning bells in my Hawkes head yet she can't say anything. Hawke should have been able to ask but Hawke just sits there like [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

At least with MoA Hawke can at least do something, is well done? No but at least it's there.

Why wouldn't Hawke assume right then and there that this was only b/c Corypheus is dead and no longer has a hold on either Janeka/Larius?

Modifié par jlb524, 13 octobre 2011 - 04:41 .

[Mr.House]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You not understanding. I'm not saying that the player can't have choices, just that not everything has to be controled by the player. You don't need to control everything, wanting to do so is a perferance.

But there is no control of anything at all, no roleplaying whatsoever. At that point, why bother with mediocrity in both gameplay and storytelling when I could just as well play the likes of Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, God of War and Dante's Inferno?

So why not play those instead of staying on the forums of a game you didn't enjoy?

[Mr.House]

jlb524 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
What does that have to do with Cory having a new body and not hiding it from Hawke? Hawke is just like oh ok, go ahead! With no chocie to do anything.

You assume Hawke knows anything is odd.

I'm not convinced Corypheus even actually pulled a body-switch. I think a lot of people are just itching for a conspiracy when there is none.

Yeah, the evidence is weak even from our perspective and Hawke isn't privy to the same things we are (s/he couldn't see Larius/Janeka twitching, for example).

There is strong evidence.

1:Before Hawke gives the killing blow Cory smiles and you see Larius/Jenka stutter in the background.
2: If Laruis is alive, not only is he standing up straight and talknig fine, his speach pattren is the same as Cory
3: Jeneka also acts wierd and her last line "I feel like a new person.
4: Both of them smile when they walk away

They are possesed.

[Mr.House]

jlb524 wrote...


Why wouldn't Hawke assume right then and there that this was only b/c Corypheus is dead and no longer has a hold on either Janeka/Larius?

Why can't Hawke drill more? Larius has the same speach pattren as Cory, ya I highly doubt he has that because Cory is "dead".

[TEWR]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But the second he runs after her, she can easilly run. I understand you wanted to do something but the end would of been the same, her leaving with the scroll.

I know she would still have the scroll. But my point is it would've been more believable because Hawke would at least try to do something to save Thedas against the threat of a Qunari invasion considering the Arishok says "One day... we shall return.".

Now that Hawke knows that there are Qunari sleeper cells spread throughout Thedas, the threat of an invasion seems certain. Thus for those Hawkes who want the scroll, action should be taken. It can still fail to succeed, but it shows that Hawke is at least trying his hardest to do something about it.

Trying to obtain something and failing is much better than doing nothing at all. I could handle Tallis leaving with the scroll if there was a believable reason for why Hawke couldn't get it. But him simply saying "Welp I tried" is not believable.

If Bioware wants to have a plan for something that the PC cannot change from happening (Tallis taking the scroll), they need to make it believable. They did it with Legacy, so why couldn't they do it in MotA considering they were taking their time to make this DLC?

Then complaing about this is spliting hairs. That's my point.
Also, that would not happen because Talis is working on her own....Wiht no back up. If she had back up, she would never need Hawk.

no it's not. Most people are not interested in playing hapless, lazy-when-action-should-be-taken losers and can't take appropriate actions if the player wants to.

And how do you know what will and won't happen? Tallis is Ben-Hassrath, a member of the Qunari. She was personally trained by Salit and this scroll would expose the Qunari presence in Thedas, resulting in the deaths of many innocents.

yes she's gone rogue for this mission, but she has a duty to the Qunari. She will either destroy the scroll if the Qunari already have a copy or give it back to them if they don't.

There will inevitably be a Qunari invasion in DA3 or DA4 or whenever. Sten hints at this, the Arishok says it will happen, Fenris believes this, and now we find out there are Qunari spies littered throughout Thedas. A Qunari invasion is imminent.

Unless you're talking about me asking for Qunari to track down Tallis. If that's the case, yes it could happen because they would've followed her after she went on a rogue mission that wasn't sanctioned by the Qunari.

[dreman9999]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You not understanding. I'm not saying that the player can't have choices, just that not everything has to be controled by the player. You don't need to control everything, wanting to do so is a perferance.

But there is no control of anything at all, no roleplaying whatsoever. At that point, why bother with mediocrity in both gameplay and storytelling when I could just as well play the likes of Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, God of War and Dante's Inferno?

Oh, sure ...No roleplaying.....So I can't pretend I was stung by a bee, choose what I say in repose to people, or even what gear I have.
The dlc is full of  roleplaying elements.( like poisoning a later boss, killing a later boss before he attacks you again, and who you help in the deongon.)
It just your complaining about not being able to do on thing out of the dlc. Not being able to do that one thing is not limiting roleplaing, it's controling the story.

[jlb524]

Mr.House wrote...
There is strong evidence.

1:Before Hawke gives the killing blow Cory smiles and you see Larius/Jenka stutter in the background.
2: If Laruis is alive, not only is he standing up straight and talknig fine, his speach pattren is the same as Cory
3: Jeneka also acts wierd and her last line "I feel like a new person.
4: Both of them smile when they walk away

They are possesed.

Or, it could just mean they were released from his control.

Even if there is possession, as I said, Hawke isn't privy to most of the things you've listed.  The only thing they can see is Larius and Janeka's change of behavior but I think Hawke would attribute this to them being free from Corypheus...at least at first.  If Hawke goes home and has a few drinks, s/he may come up with tons of conspiracy theories about possession, but it would be too late to do anything then.

[dreman9999]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But the second he runs after her, she can easilly run. I understand you wanted to do something but the end would of been the same, her leaving with the scroll.

I know she would still have the scroll. But my point is it would've been more believable because Hawke would at least try to do something to save Thedas against the threat of a Qunari invasion considering the Arishok says "One day... we shall return.".

Now that Hawke knows that there are Qunari sleeper cells spread throughout Thedas, the threat of an invasion seems certain. Thus for those Hawkes who want the scroll, action should be taken. It can still fail to succeed, but it shows that Hawke is at least trying his hardest to do something about it.

Trying to obtain something and failing is much better than doing nothing at all. I could handle Tallis leaving with the scroll if there was a believable reason for why Hawke couldn't get it. But him simply saying "Welp I tried" is not believable.

If Bioware wants to have a plan for something that the PC cannot change from happening (Tallis taking the scroll), they need to make it believable. They did it with Legacy, so why couldn't they do it in MotA considering they were taking their time to make this DLC?

Then complaing about this is spliting hairs. That's my point.
Also, that would not happen because Talis is working on her own....Wiht no back up. If she had back up, she would never need Hawk.

no it's not. Most people are not interested in playing hapless, lazy-when-action-should-be-taken losers and can't take appropriate actions if the player wants to.

And how do you know what will and won't happen? Tallis is Ben-Hassrath, a member of the Qunari. She was personally trained by Salit and this scroll would expose the Qunari presence in Thedas, resulting in the deaths of many innocents.

yes she's gone rogue for this mission, but she has a duty to the Qunari. She will either destroy the scroll if the Qunari already have a copy or give it back to them if they don't.

There will inevitably be a Qunari invasion in DA3 or DA4 or whenever. Sten hints at this, the Arishok says it will happen, Fenris believes this, and now we find out there are Qunari spies littered throughout Thedas. A Qunari invasion is imminent.

Unless you're talking about me asking for Qunari to track down Tallis. If that's the case, yes it could happen because they would've followed her after she went on a rogue mission that wasn't sanctioned by the Qunari.

Yes, it is. Why? Because Tallis has no reason to engage you ifyouattack. The most you can do is jump at her. She would of quickly escaped into the wood and you would never find her........
It just spliting hairs.

[Sunnie]

Corypheus is alive. no matter what.

Actually quite the opposite, he is dead, no matter what. Not sure where you got that, OP, but you have no choice but to kill him. He's one of the Tevinter Magister that invaded the Makers plane intending to take over the Golden City, not an Old God (which were dragons, btw, if I remember right).

[Zjarcal]

liesandpropaganda wrote...

you forgot the most important part - i can't sleep with Tallis! what a kick in the quad

YES!!! :crying:

[Mr.House]

jlb524 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
There is strong evidence.

1:Before Hawke gives the killing blow Cory smiles and you see Larius/Jenka stutter in the background.
2: If Laruis is alive, not only is he standing up straight and talknig fine, his speach pattren is the same as Cory
3: Jeneka also acts wierd and her last line "I feel like a new person.
4: Both of them smile when they walk away

They are possesed.

Or, it could just mean they were released from his control.

Even if there is possession, as I said, Hawke isn't privy to most of the things you've listed.  The only thing they can see is Larius and Janeka's change of behavior but I think Hawke would attribute this to them being free from Corypheus...at least at first.  If Hawke goes home and has a few drinks, s/he may come up with tons of conspiracy theories about possession, but it would be too late to do anything then.

Maybe your Hawke, my Hawke did not like it, but alas the plot dictates that I must play along, go back to Kirkwall and get drunk and have sex. Thank you Gaider.

[TEWR]

Mr.House wrote...

jlb524 wrote...


Why wouldn't Hawke assume right then and there that this was only b/c Corypheus is dead and no longer has a hold on either Janeka/Larius?

Why can't Hawke drill more? Larius has the same speach pattren as Cory, ya I highly doubt he has that because Cory is "dead".

To be fair, Larius was actually really lucid prior to the battle with Corypheus. He only had a few instances of not being lucid.

Josh didn't even have to option to have to ask for the scroll, nor did he know the full details about it, so I see no issues here. This dlc did not harm my Hawkes at all.

Tobias Hawke did have that option, and when my cat stepped on my controller (dammit Shadow! ) he demanded Tallis hand it over she said "You think I'll give this to you because you're cross?" to which he said "Can't fault a guy for trying" or something like that.

I promptly reloaded because I wanted to do the final flirt option.

[Sunnie]

Zjarcal wrote...

liesandpropaganda wrote...

you forgot the most important part - i can't sleep with Tallis! what a kick in the quad

YES!!! :crying:

However, making out with her is the next best thing!

[Mr.House]

Zjarcal wrote...

liesandpropaganda wrote...

you forgot the most important part - i can't sleep with Tallis! what a kick in the quad

YES!!! :crying:

At least you get a kiss.

[TEWR]

Yes, it is. Why? Because Tallis has no reason to engage you ifyouattack. The most you can do is jump at her. She would of quickly escaped into the wood and you would never find her........
It just spliting hairs.

And that would've been fine. She would've escaped and Hawke would've failed in a believable fashion.

In MotA, he fails in a non-believable fashion. I can play a person who doesn't trust Tallis, hates her upon finding out she's Qunari, and wants that scroll. But Hawke then has to accept an "lol nope".

There's a difference between inaction and taking action only to fail. Even if they lead to the same place, they are two incredibly different concepts.

[dreman9999]

Mr.House wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
What does that have to do with Cory having a new body and not hiding it from Hawke? Hawke is just like oh ok, go ahead! With no chocie to do anything.

You assume Hawke knows anything is odd.

I'm not convinced Corypheus even actually pulled a body-switch. I think a lot of people are just itching for a conspiracy when there is none.

Yeah, the evidence is weak even from our perspective and Hawke isn't privy to the same things we are (s/he couldn't see Larius/Janeka twitching, for example).

There is strong evidence.

1:Before Hawke gives the killing blow Cory smiles and you see Larius/Jenka stutter in the background.
2: If Laruis is alive, not only is he standing up straight and talknig fine, his speach pattren is the same as Cory
3: Jeneka also acts wierd and her last line "I feel like a new person.
4: Both of them smile when they walk away

They are possesed.

But the question is ...how would Hawk know this?
These character were acting odd before killing the guy, and what ever change in character is easily explain with the consept of their personalities being warped by the mind control.

Also, doesn't the darkspawn body jump kill both the host and the resevier if the resevier has a soul.? That is why ever warden that kills the archdemon dies.

[Zjarcal]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

liesandpropaganda wrote...

you forgot the most important part - i can't sleep with Tallis! what a kick in the quad

YES!!! :crying:

However, making out with her is the next best thing!

It is! 

I can always imagine they meet again sometime later under less dire circumstances... things WILL get freaky then. 

[dreman9999]

Zjarcal wrote...

liesandpropaganda wrote...

you forgot the most important part - i can't sleep with Tallis! what a kick in the quad

YES!!! :crying:

But she's qunari. You would not sleep with her anyway unless she ordered to sleep with you.

[jlb524]

Mr.House wrote...
Maybe your Hawke, my Hawke did not like it, but alas the plot dictates that I must play along, go back to Kirkwall and get drunk and have sex. Thank you Gaider.

Well, yeah...my Hawke just wanted to gtfo after fighting an ancient as dirt Tevinter magister darkspawn thingy while dodging really nasty weather.  She didn't want to hang around and interrogate a GW b/c they acted a bit differently after Cory died...considering she watched Anders flip out the entire mission b/c of this dude.

She just really wanted a bubble bath.

Modifié par jlb524, 13 octobre 2011 - 04:54 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Mr.House wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You not understanding. I'm not saying that the player can't have choices, just that not everything has to be controled by the player. You don't need to control everything, wanting to do so is a perferance.

But there is no control of anything at all, no roleplaying whatsoever. At that point, why bother with mediocrity in both gameplay and storytelling when I could just as well play the likes of Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, God of War and Dante's Inferno?

So why not play those instead of staying on the forums of a game you didn't enjoy?

I do play most of those as well, but I suppose I'm still expecting something good given that this is the same team that gave us Origins.

And there's a certain group of users on here I wouldn't dare leaving behind.

dreman9999 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You not understanding. I'm not saying that the player can't have choices, just that not everything has to be controled by the player. You don't need to control everything, wanting to do so is a perferance.

But there is no control of anything at all, no roleplaying whatsoever. At that point, why bother with mediocrity in both gameplay and storytelling when I could just as well play the likes of Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, God of War and Dante's Inferno?

Oh, sure ...No roleplaying.....So I can't pretend I was stung by a bee, choose what I say in repose to people, or even what gear I have.
The dlc is full of  roleplaying elements.( like poisoning a later boss, killing a later boss before he attacks you again, and who you help in the deongon.)
It just your complaining about not being able to do on thing out of the dlc. Not being able to do that one thing is not limiting roleplaing, it's controling the story.

Sure, there are some small choices, but all of those only exist in the bubble that is MotA.

Also, why should I expect anything else after no less than two games of kingmaker and deciding the fate of dozens if not hundreds of elves and mages?

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 13 octobre 2011 - 04:54 .