226 réponses à ce sujet

[sp0ck 06]

I've been replaying ME1 and while I am loving it, the uncharted worlds are absolutely horrible. Great idea, and its cool that you CAN land on them, but actually driving around is no fun AT ALL. The Mako is the worst controlling vehicle in the history of video games, the generated terrain is awful, and the only difference between worlds is the skybox.

I'd much rather have a lesser number of missions like Overlord or Rogue VI where you can drive around a large, relatively open area, but with clear paths to objectives.

I actually liked the platforming of Firewalker, it was a fun and different diversion. It was fighting anything in the Hammerhead that sucked.

[CannonO]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I've been replaying ME1 and while I am loving it, the uncharted worlds are absolutely horrible. Great idea, and its cool that you CAN land on them, but actually driving around is no fun AT ALL. The Mako is the worst controlling vehicle in the history of video games, the generated terrain is awful, and the only difference between worlds is the skybox.

I'd much rather have a lesser number of missions like Overlord or Rogue VI where you can drive around a large, relatively open area, but with clear paths to objectives.

I actually liked the platforming of Firewalker, it was a fun and different diversion. It was fighting anything in the Hammerhead that sucked.

I didn't feel all that much openness with Overlord. I want a mix between the Uncharted worlds from ME1 and the idea of N7/Overlord. I like the idea of missions in more unique worlds, but they just made me feel so small in ME1, like a real adventure in space (cheesy, but I mean it). We agree that most planets weren't well done, but go take a look and see the handful of awesome ones. I think "Great idea" as you said is important to remember. It has endless potential, so it should still be there.

[sp0ck 06]

CannonLars wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I've been replaying ME1 and while I am loving it, the uncharted worlds are absolutely horrible. Great idea, and its cool that you CAN land on them, but actually driving around is no fun AT ALL. The Mako is the worst controlling vehicle in the history of video games, the generated terrain is awful, and the only difference between worlds is the skybox.

I'd much rather have a lesser number of missions like Overlord or Rogue VI where you can drive around a large, relatively open area, but with clear paths to objectives.

I actually liked the platforming of Firewalker, it was a fun and different diversion. It was fighting anything in the Hammerhead that sucked.

I didn't feel all that much openness with Overlord. I want a mix between the Uncharted worlds from ME1 and the idea of N7/Overlord. I like the idea of missions in more unique worlds, but they just made me feel so small in ME1, like a real adventure in space (cheesy, but I mean it). We agree that most planets weren't well done, but go take a look and see the handful of awesome ones. I think "Great idea" as you said is important to remember. It has endless potential, so it should still be there.

Overlord is not open, but it FEELS like a big, sprawling area where the player can decide what objectives to tackle with a variety of gameplay (the geth ship cannon fight was very well done).

Same with the Luna Rogue VI mission from ME1.  The trick is to create an area where the player knows where to go but still has some amount of freedom.

I think Half Life 2 is the best example.  The game is absolutely linear, but many of the levels feel like huge, organic areas that the player just happens to be taking a certain route through.

[CannonO]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I've been replaying ME1 and while I am loving it, the uncharted worlds are absolutely horrible. Great idea, and its cool that you CAN land on them, but actually driving around is no fun AT ALL. The Mako is the worst controlling vehicle in the history of video games, the generated terrain is awful, and the only difference between worlds is the skybox.

I'd much rather have a lesser number of missions like Overlord or Rogue VI where you can drive around a large, relatively open area, but with clear paths to objectives.

I actually liked the platforming of Firewalker, it was a fun and different diversion. It was fighting anything in the Hammerhead that sucked.

I didn't feel all that much openness with Overlord. I want a mix between the Uncharted worlds from ME1 and the idea of N7/Overlord. I like the idea of missions in more unique worlds, but they just made me feel so small in ME1, like a real adventure in space (cheesy, but I mean it). We agree that most planets weren't well done, but go take a look and see the handful of awesome ones. I think "Great idea" as you said is important to remember. It has endless potential, so it should still be there.

Overlord is not open, but it FEELS like a big, sprawling area where the player can decide what objectives to tackle with a variety of gameplay (the geth ship cannon fight was very well done).

Same with the Luna Rogue VI mission from ME1.  The trick is to create an area where the player knows where to go but still has some amount of freedom.

I think Half Life 2 is the best example.  The game is absolutely linear, but many of the levels feel like huge, organic areas that the player just happens to be taking a certain route through.

Half Life is one of a small group of games where I think linearity is fantastic for it. It helps usher us through that Children of Men feeling journey. I miss seeing Earth up in the sky while standing on the silence of our moon in ME1 though.

I would have liked Overlord more if it was truly open field to drive across, but it was a nice surprise that we got that scale in ME2. I am just a huge fan of not being in faked expansiveness in an open world game. I really enjoy when I can say that I get to drive full speed under a white planet across blue sand to some dark bunker in the valley. The ME1 problem was they were all going to those bunkers. We need N7 Missions + Uncharted Worlds = heaven

Modifié par CannonLars, 14 octobre 2011 - 10:27 .

[sp0ck 06]

CannonLars wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I've been replaying ME1 and while I am loving it, the uncharted worlds are absolutely horrible. Great idea, and its cool that you CAN land on them, but actually driving around is no fun AT ALL. The Mako is the worst controlling vehicle in the history of video games, the generated terrain is awful, and the only difference between worlds is the skybox.

I'd much rather have a lesser number of missions like Overlord or Rogue VI where you can drive around a large, relatively open area, but with clear paths to objectives.

I actually liked the platforming of Firewalker, it was a fun and different diversion. It was fighting anything in the Hammerhead that sucked.

I didn't feel all that much openness with Overlord. I want a mix between the Uncharted worlds from ME1 and the idea of N7/Overlord. I like the idea of missions in more unique worlds, but they just made me feel so small in ME1, like a real adventure in space (cheesy, but I mean it). We agree that most planets weren't well done, but go take a look and see the handful of awesome ones. I think "Great idea" as you said is important to remember. It has endless potential, so it should still be there.

Overlord is not open, but it FEELS like a big, sprawling area where the player can decide what objectives to tackle with a variety of gameplay (the geth ship cannon fight was very well done).

Same with the Luna Rogue VI mission from ME1.  The trick is to create an area where the player knows where to go but still has some amount of freedom.

I think Half Life 2 is the best example.  The game is absolutely linear, but many of the levels feel like huge, organic areas that the player just happens to be taking a certain route through.

Half Life is one of a small group of games where I think linearity is fantastic for it. It helps usher us through that Children of Men feeling journey. I miss seeing Earth up in the sky while standing on the silence of our moon.

I would have liked Overlord more if it was truly open field to drive across, but it was a nice surprise that we got that scale in ME2. I am just a huge fan of not being in faked expansiveness in an open world game. I really enjoy when I can say that I get to drive full speed under a white planet across blue sand to some dark bunker in the valley. The ME1 problem was they were all going to those bunkers. We need N7 Missions + Uncharted Worlds = heaven

I pretty much agree with you.  I'm sure at this point whatever the N7 type stuff is its already figured out (although we've heard nothing about it).  I certainly think that quality trumps quantity, however.  Give me 8-10 meaty, relative side missions instead of 25 copy pasted bunkers or 5 minute N7 missions anyway.

Sidenote:  Awesome reference, Children of Men is my favorite film of all time.  The uprising levels in HL2 are the best designed levels I've ever played in a game, methinks.

[onelifecrisis]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Exploration is one of the things the ME fans LOVED, and they removed it. We loved exploring the worlds...

Speak for yourself. Seeing generic ground texture #4 coupled with generic sky texture #2 didn't do anything for me. Neither did xp/loot grind site #7.

[CannonO]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I've been replaying ME1 and while I am loving it, the uncharted worlds are absolutely horrible. Great idea, and its cool that you CAN land on them, but actually driving around is no fun AT ALL. The Mako is the worst controlling vehicle in the history of video games, the generated terrain is awful, and the only difference between worlds is the skybox.

I'd much rather have a lesser number of missions like Overlord or Rogue VI where you can drive around a large, relatively open area, but with clear paths to objectives.

I actually liked the platforming of Firewalker, it was a fun and different diversion. It was fighting anything in the Hammerhead that sucked.

I didn't feel all that much openness with Overlord. I want a mix between the Uncharted worlds from ME1 and the idea of N7/Overlord. I like the idea of missions in more unique worlds, but they just made me feel so small in ME1, like a real adventure in space (cheesy, but I mean it). We agree that most planets weren't well done, but go take a look and see the handful of awesome ones. I think "Great idea" as you said is important to remember. It has endless potential, so it should still be there.

/snip

/snip

I pretty much agree with you.  I'm sure at this point whatever the N7 type stuff is its already figured out (although we've heard nothing about it).  I certainly think that quality trumps quantity, however.  Give me 8-10 meaty, relative side missions instead of 25 copy pasted bunkers or 5 minute N7 missions anyway.

Sidenote:  Awesome reference, Children of Men is my favorite film of all time.  The uprising levels in HL2 are the best designed levels I've ever played in a game, methinks.

I agree on quality over quantity. 7-10 planets that take my breath away and then blow me away altogether with their missions are better than 25 similar ones.

Sidenote: Great movie, and the game is indeed well done.

onelifecrisis wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Exploration is one of the things the ME fans LOVED, and they removed it. We loved exploring the worlds...

Speak for yourself. Seeing generic ground texture #4 coupled with generic sky texture #2 didn't do anything for me. Neither did xp/loot grind site #7.

But none of them appealed to you? If you are just calling it repetitive, most of us are aware of that. Surely you saw a couple that made you smile and overall the idea still has amazing potential, no?

Modifié par CannonLars, 14 octobre 2011 - 10:32 .

[Yezdigerd]

I really don't get how you could fit exploration into a galactic war. Driving around in the antic Mako collecting Turian insignias while the reapers are exterminating the human race seems odd to me.

[Gabey5]

no

[Bluko]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Exploration is one of the things the ME fans LOVED, and they removed it. We loved exploring the worlds, we just didn't like the "generic warehouse #52" part.

Yep.

With tighter controls on the Mako (or a less flimsy Hammerhead),  less "meh" terrain, and some actual unique stuff exploring planets could be a lot of fun.

Also as for the "THERE'S NO TIME TO EXPLORE! GO GO GO!" if Shepard has time to talk to his crew and fool around with whatever Love Interest I don't think landing on a planet and saving a bunch of colonists from Husks is the end of universe. (No one one wants to look for more Prothean Disks believe me.)

Modifié par Bluko, 14 octobre 2011 - 11:36 .

[CannonO]

Yezdigerd wrote...

I really don't get how you could fit exploration into a galactic war. Driving around in the antic Mako collecting Turian insignias while the reapers are exterminating the human race seems odd to me.

It didn't seem odd when you were after the army of Geth and Saren? Or any other game where you are either in an explorable world or you take a moment for Romance or admiring a view?

This is again that unrealistic idea that we are following the realistic time constraints of the story's urgency. Do not say a feature could be removed because it would make for odd timing. All games have odd timing because we would be suffocated if we had that strict of time constraints. Shepard would die of exhaustion if he didn't slow down for some things.

The solution would be incorporate the N7 missions into those locations. They add uniqueness and can be written as beneficial to the cause.

[onelifecrisis]

CannonLars wrote...

But none of them appealed to you? If you are just calling it repetitive, most of us are aware of that. Surely you saw a couple that made you smile and overall the idea still has amazing potential, no?

Well we touched on this in the other thread. Stop the reapers... or go sight-seeing? Mmm, I think option A is for me.

I like games with exploration as long as the exploration is an integral part of the game and the story, rather than being an unnecessary appendage tacked-on to the former and a contradiction of the latter.

[CannonO]

onelifecrisis wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

But none of them appealed to you? If you are just calling it repetitive, most of us are aware of that. Surely you saw a couple that made you smile and overall the idea still has amazing potential, no?

Well we touched on this in the other thread. Stop the reapers... or go sight-seeing? Mmm, I think option A is for me.

I like games with exploration as long as the exploration is an integral part of the game and the story, rather than being an unnecessary appendage tacked-on to the former and a contradiction of the latter.

But you wouldn't do sidequests?

[onelifecrisis]

CannonLars wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

But none of them appealed to you? If you are just calling it repetitive, most of us are aware of that. Surely you saw a couple that made you smile and overall the idea still has amazing potential, no?

Well we touched on this in the other thread. Stop the reapers... or go sight-seeing? Mmm, I think option A is for me.

I like games with exploration as long as the exploration is an integral part of the game and the story, rather than being an unnecessary appendage tacked-on to the former and a contradiction of the latter.

But you wouldn't do sidequests?

Depends on the game, the setting, the story, and what you're calling a side-quest. In Elite II: Frontier for example, every mission was effectively a side-quest, but that was fine because there was no overarching story of galactic doom taking place, nor was there anyone telling you to HURRY UP AND DO THE MAIN STORY BEFORE THE WORLD ENDS.

[CannonO]

onelifecrisis wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

But none of them appealed to you? If you are just calling it repetitive, most of us are aware of that. Surely you saw a couple that made you smile and overall the idea still has amazing potential, no?

Well we touched on this in the other thread. Stop the reapers... or go sight-seeing? Mmm, I think option A is for me.

I like games with exploration as long as the exploration is an integral part of the game and the story, rather than being an unnecessary appendage tacked-on to the former and a contradiction of the latter.

But you wouldn't do sidequests?

Depends on the game, the setting, the story, and what you're calling a side-quest. In Elite II: Frontier for example, every mission was effectively a side-quest, but that was fine because there was no overarching story of galactic doom taking place, nor was there anyone telling you to HURRY UP AND DO THE MAIN STORY BEFORE THE WORLD ENDS.

Well how about each Mass Effect game? How did you treat ME1, ME2, and will you feel comfortable doing sidequests in ME3 (how about if they contribute to the main story's Galactiv Readiness meter?)?

They all have extremely urgent plots. Would you really say leave them out, especially if they provide optional fortification to Galactic Readiness. I want it there because whether it fits my first playthrough, or it is something I visit on a run where I don't care about story and just want to see planets, I miss the heck out of feeling like an Astronaut on uncharted worlds and a few places in ME1 gave me that. I hope ME1 wasn't the last time I'll see that concept and feeling.

Modifié par CannonLars, 15 octobre 2011 - 02:33 .

[The Interloper]

Bluko wrote...

With tighter controls on the Mako (or a less flimsy Hammerhead),  less "meh" terrain, and some actual unique stuff exploring planets could be a lot of fun.

What he said.

Like the hammerhead levels, except not so linear.

[onelifecrisis]

CannonLars wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

But none of them appealed to you? If you are just calling it repetitive, most of us are aware of that. Surely you saw a couple that made you smile and overall the idea still has amazing potential, no?

Well we touched on this in the other thread. Stop the reapers... or go sight-seeing? Mmm, I think option A is for me.

I like games with exploration as long as the exploration is an integral part of the game and the story, rather than being an unnecessary appendage tacked-on to the former and a contradiction of the latter.

But you wouldn't do sidequests?

Depends on the game, the setting, the story, and what you're calling a side-quest. In Elite II: Frontier for example, every mission was effectively a side-quest, but that was fine because there was no overarching story of galactic doom taking place, nor was there anyone telling you to HURRY UP AND DO THE MAIN STORY BEFORE THE WORLD ENDS.

Well how about each Mass Effect game? How did you treat ME1, ME2, and will you feel comfortable doing sidequests in ME3 (how about if they contribute to the main story's Galactiv Readiness meter?)?

They all have extremely urgent plots. Would you really say leave them out, especially if they provide optional fortification to Galactic Readiness. I want it there because whether it fits my first playthrough, or it is something I visit on a run where I don't care about story and just want to see planets, I miss the heck out of feeling like an Astronaut on uncharted worlds and a few places in ME1 gave me that. I hope ME1 wasn't the last time I'll see that concept and feeling.

I've seen some people say the Loyalty missions were side-quests. I don't want to get into some sort of definition debate here, but I disagree with that. They were tied to the main storyline in so much as that Shepard needed everyone "focused" (or something) to do the main mission. They were also fleshed out and well done. I think there's quite a sharp contrast between an ME2 loyalty mission and some dude in a space station who waves at you and spouts the same line of dialogue every time you go past, then when you talk to him he tells you he needs something fetching from across the street. That kind of crap isn't even vaguely related to the main story.

So in ME3, if there are fleshed out missions that tie in to the main story and help the main goal somehow, but which are optional (basically ME3 loyalty missions) then I look forward to doing them. But if some random Salarian stops me tell me that he's lost his sunglasses I swear I will omniblade the ****.

[CannonO]

To avoid super quotes: @onelifecrisis

Alright, so say N7 missions occurred across 10 random uncharted worlds that improved on the ME1 and ME2 concepts of those elements, and it made a contribution to a resource or a preparation that could aid you in the main story, would those be played? I know I would play them at some point regardless of importance.

[Taesuun]

Shepard flees the Earth in the beginning, where the Reapers would be just there to for him to fight. Clearly his "We fight or we die!" only comes in later : p

Meaning that some sort of exploration might very well be justified just to get the job done. Doesn't have to be sidemissions, in ME1 all the primary missions had a mako part too. IMO it was nice, though maybe not neccessary for every mission.

[Yezdigerd]

CannonLars wrote...

It didn't seem odd when you were after the army of Geth and Saren? Or any other game where you are either in an explorable world or you take a moment for Romance or admiring a view?

No of course not. Your task in ME was to bring Saren to justice. Nothing in the task suggested that haste was crucial for the survival of sentient life in the galaxy. In fact some side missions like the geth incursion seemed far more urgent. Now  I reckon millions die every day you dally.

Just about all the N7 mission in ME1-2 "search for missing colonists", "destroy blood pack base" would be senseless to waste time on in a genocidal galactic war.

[onelifecrisis]

CannonLars wrote...

To avoid super quotes: @onelifecrisis

Alright, so say N7 missions occurred across 10 random uncharted worlds that improved on the ME1 and ME2 concepts of those elements, and it made a contribution to a resource or a preparation that could aid you in the main story, would those be played? I know I would play them at some point regardless of importance.

If the improvements and contributions were significant enough, and if it ties into the main story rather than contradicting it, then yeah, sure. But then in that case it's no longer what I think of as a "side quest".

[CannonO]

onelifecrisis wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

To avoid super quotes: @onelifecrisis

Alright, so say N7 missions occurred across 10 random uncharted worlds that improved on the ME1 and ME2 concepts of those elements, and it made a contribution to a resource or a preparation that could aid you in the main story, would those be played? I know I would play them at some point regardless of importance.

If the improvements and contributions were significant enough, and if it ties into the main story rather than contradicting it, then yeah, sure. But then in that case it's no longer what I think of as a "side quest".

We'll just say optional quests then. Can be done along the main story, but can be skipped if preferred.

[CannonO]

Yezdigerd wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

It didn't seem odd when you were after the army of Geth and Saren? Or any other game where you are either in an explorable world or you take a moment for Romance or admiring a view?

No of course not. Your task in ME was to bring Saren to justice. Nothing in the task suggested that haste was crucial for the survival of sentient life in the galaxy. In fact some side missions like the geth incursion seemed far more urgent. Now  I reckon millions die every day you dally.

Just about all the N7 mission in ME1-2 "search for missing colonists", "destroy blood pack base" would be senseless to waste time on in a genocidal galactic war.

Pretty sure those were implied to be extremely urgent as well due to Geth attacks and then Collector abductions occurring all the time, especially based on how Shepard spoke in some scenes. I get that ME3 has more craziness, but to Shepard, each situation has gotten his speed and interest completely, even if it gets worse each time. There is no need to drop the feature because some people are going to stop doing optional quests in an RPG all of a sudden. It can be entirely important to many players as it was in the first two games, and urgency is never accounted for with realistic timing, so unless there is a clock running during ME3 that says "All life ceases to exist in 4 DAYS: 13 HOURS: 21 MINUTES" then we should have the choice of building our story to include the occurrences on uncharted worlds.

[Pepper4]

I really miss those huge environments.. though they were a pain to drive on...

[CannonO]

So, is the answer to my question "No"?