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[1136342t54_]

BlueMagitek wrote...

And no Engineer to install them outside of some crazy Quarian.  We saw how that went. D=

That is a unsupported assumption.

What game were you playing? o_o 
Shepard was the fox to Vasir's hare the entire time. 

Shepard attempted to wrestle Vasir while jumping out the window. She kicked him so hard to the ground that he was out for that moment. Vasir only ran because Liara and the rest of Shepard's well trained squad was on her ass. Vasir could very likely take on Shepard one on one.

We would have heard something about it, not "The Asari have ceded their Citadel Defense responsibility to the Turians".  It isn't like they'd be starting from the ground up either; unless Asari ritualistically burn their schematics.  >________________>

Not exactly sure since the Asari might not want a lot of groups especially the human lead council knowing about the Asari's attempt to build up there military presence. All in all we don't know what they are necessarily doing but I wouldn't be surprised they are focused on protecting there colonies and core worlds. They have much more territory than humanity does. Same goes for the Turians and Salarians.

[BlueMagitek]

1136342t54 wrote...

That is a unsupported assumption.

Shepard attempted to wrestle Vasir while jumping out the window. She kicked him so hard to the ground that he was out for that moment. Vasir only ran because Liara and the rest of Shepard's well trained squad was on her ass. Vasir could very likely take on Shepard one on one.

Not exactly sure since the Asari might not want a lot of groups especially the human lead council knowing about the Asari's attempt to build up there military presence. All in all we don't know what they are necessarily doing but I wouldn't be surprised they are focused on protecting there colonies and core worlds. They have much more territory than humanity does. Same goes for the Turians and Salarians.

We know that the VS cannot be an engineer (though Kaiden can be the master of unlocking =D ), and if it was so special that the lasers worked there, why send a specialist to a relatively unimportant area? =0

Well yes, that tends to end poorly, gravity is quite the enemy, you understand.  And here you're telling me my claims are unsupported; Vasir spends the vast majority of her time running, bleeding or hostage taking, which isn't what the fox typically does in a fight with a hare. I mean, it isn't like she has an army of mercenaries at her ba--.  <______________<

Assumptions assumptions. =-O
The Asari's hat has always been "diplomacy" or "body language" or whatever you'd prefer to call it; being sneaaaaaky is the Salarian's hat.  And you're right, the Asari do have more territory than the humans do!  As such, they must sacrifice more, for the greater good.

[1136342t54_]

BlueMagitek wrote...
We know that the VS cannot be an engineer (though Kaiden can be the master of unlocking =D ), and if it was so special that the lasers worked there, why send a specialist to a relatively unimportant area? =0

Which planet are you talking about? Freedom's Progress had a working GARDIAN laser network. It didn't work since Collector seeker swarms can easily take out a population before mobilization or the ship can make a orbital strike and destroy defenses.

Well yes, that tends to end poorly, gravity is quite the enemy, you understand.  And here you're telling me my claims are unsupported; Vasir spends the vast majority of her time running, bleeding or hostage taking, which isn't what the fox typically does in a fight with a hare. I mean, it isn't like she has an army of mercenaries at her ba--.  <______________<

Vasir is facing 4 highly trained bad ass soldiers and some are likely biotics. Even Spectres never have good chances in those fights. Hell Saren didn't want to go and attack a Krogan battlemaster alone in the novel. Vasir already got what she needed and her only job was to escape that was it. Why would she fight when the Shadow broker's army is supposed to be sufficient? Hell even a heavily injured Vasir was tough as hell.

Also I was saying both of our claims were unsupported.

The Asari's hat has always been "diplomacy" or "body language" or whatever you'd prefer to call it; being sneaaaaaky is the Salarian's hat.  And you're right, the Asari do have more territory than the humans do!  As such, they must sacrifice more, for the greater good.

Asari's advantage has been diplomacy and huge economy. They also have a very large supply of eezo. Plus there military acts as more of a deterrent instead of a offensive force. They aren't weak but they aren't designed to take out nations in full force. The Asari having a larger territory means more military to commit for protecting there own planets not the Citadel or foreign assets. 

[BlueMagitek]

1136342t54 wrote...

Which planet are you talking about? Freedom's Progress had a working GARDIAN laser network. It didn't work since Collector seeker swarms can easily take out a population before mobilization or the ship can make a orbital strike and destroy defenses.

Vasir is facing 4 highly trained bad ass soldiers and some are likely biotics. Even Spectres never have good chances in those fights. Hell Saren didn't want to go and attack a Krogan battlemaster alone in the novel. Vasir already got what she needed and her only job was to escape that was it. Why would she fight when the Shadow broker's army is supposed to be sufficient? Hell even a heavily injured Vasir was tough as hell.

Also I was saying both of our claims were unsupported.

Asari's advantage has been diplomacy and huge economy. They also have a very large supply of eezo. Plus there military acts as more of a deterrent instead of a offensive force. They aren't weak but they aren't designed to take out nations in full force. The Asari having a larger territory means more military to commit for protecting there own planets not the Citadel or foreign assets.

I'm not sure what planet we're talking about at all. ~_^
Now, if the Collectors had wanted to start with a bombardment, why didn't they?  Well, it'd harm the merchandise (the merchandise being people =0 ); however, given that the Terminus System is full of pirates & mercs & various warlords, the thought that you'd have someone at security on standby isn't too Farfetch'd, is it?

I have not read the novels, so I can't comment on Saren.
...so Shepard and his team had the upper hand the majority of the time then?  Well yeah, that is what I said.  Eh, it could be, or you could just kill her; look at this Asari, telling me off for her failings. 

Not necessarily; a large territory only means that you have a large territory; not all of it needs to be defended constantly.  Only the border planets should be in any jeopardy and the Asari, as a Council Race, have allies to lend their fleets to the cause if an attack happened. 

[1136342t54_]

BlueMagitek wrote...

I'm not sure what planet we're talking about at all. ~_^
Now, if the Collectors had wanted to start with a bombardment, why didn't they?  Well, it'd harm the merchandise (the merchandise being people =0 ); however, given that the Terminus System is full of pirates & mercs & various warlords, the thought that you'd have someone at security on standby isn't too Farfetch'd, is it?

I have not read the novels, so I can't comment on Saren.
...so Shepard and his team had the upper hand the majority of the time then?  Well yeah, that is what I said.  Eh, it could be, or you could just kill her; look at this Asari, telling me off for her failings. 

Not necessarily; a large territory only means that you have a large territory; not all of it needs to be defended constantly.  Only the border planets should be in any jeopardy and the Asari, as a Council Race, have allies to lend their fleets to the cause if an attack happened. 

The collectors obviously didn't need to since the GARDIAN lasers were likely unable to fire on Freedom's Progress since the seeker swarms took out the populace very quickly.

I was saying originally that Vasir can take on Shepard as a counter to you saying Shepard had her on the run when in fact she was just attempting to get the data to the broker without shep getting it. Plus Shepard had an entire team of badasses possibly more badass then he/she is. Vasir could possibly take on Shepard one on one and win. If it is a biotic shepard then the fight gets interesting.

Actually in the Asari's case it does. Only humanity uses a strategy that focuses on responding to attack instead of garrisoning worlds heavily.The other races likely use a more conservative way to protect there territories. 

[Yezdigerd]

BlueMagitek wrote...
Not necessarily; a large territory only means that you have a large territory; not all of it needs to be defended constantly.  Only the border planets should be in any jeopardy and the Asari, as a Council Race, have allies to lend their fleets to the cause if an attack happened. 

You do realize that the Asari has almost 3 times the number of capital ship of the human alliance? A well as the strongest economy in the galaxy.

[BlueMagitek]

1136342t54 wrote...

The collectors obviously didn't need to since the GARDIAN lasers were likely unable to fire on Freedom's Progress since the seeker swarms took out the populace very quickly.

I was saying originally that Vasir can take on Shepard as a counter to you saying Shepard had her on the run when in fact she was just attempting to get the data to the broker without shep getting it. Plus Shepard had an entire team of badasses possibly more badass then he/she is. Vasir could possibly take on Shepard one on one and win. If it is a biotic shepard then the fight gets interesting.

Actually in the Asari's case it does. Only humanity uses a strategy that focuses on responding to attack instead of garrisoning worlds heavily.The other races likely use a more conservative way to protect there territories. 

Once again, it wouldn't be too unlikely that there'd be someone on security, given that the Terminus systems are supposed to be held by various warlords, pirates & mercs.  

Can't Shepard go alone on the mission?  Sans Liara, of course.  It's been quite a while.  Your team could be comprised of Mordin (while badass, very fragile) & Kasumi (known for her skill, not her killing abilities).  That's just how it goes.
And, you know, army. >_>
I disagree with that, though; of all people, Vanguard Shep should be used to Charge.  Other Shepards have dealt with worse as well.

You don't seem to quite get what I was saying; a core planet does not have the same security needs as one on the outer ring, so to speak, so building an excess of force in a place unlikely to be attacked isn't reasonable.

[1136342t54_]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Once again, it wouldn't be too unlikely that there'd be someone on security, given that the Terminus systems are supposed to be held by various warlords, pirates & mercs.  

Can't Shepard go alone on the mission?  Sans Liara, of course.  It's been quite a while.  Your team could be comprised of Mordin (while badass, very fragile) & Kasumi (known for her skill, not her killing abilities).  That's just how it goes.
And, you know, army. >_>
I disagree with that, though; of all people, Vanguard Shep should be used to Charge.  Other Shepards have dealt with worse as well.

You don't seem to quite get what I was saying; a core planet does not have the same security needs as one on the outer ring, so to speak, so building an excess of force in a place unlikely to be attacked isn't reasonable.

What does that have to do with the Collectors being able to tear there way through most defenses?

Shepard can't go alone on missions. Mordin is the same guy who killed a Krogan with a pitch fork. Don't count him out at all. Also Liara seem to be known for powerful biotic abilities likely trained by her mother. Vanguard shepard can charge to but if he is better than a likely multiple century old Spectre then I couldn't agree with that. Samara is though. Only war hero shepard has been through super soldier like scenarios alone but it was likely by using guerilla warfare. Other than that we haven't seen shepard take on anyone one on one at a Spectre level.

[BlueMagitek]

1136342t54 wrote...

What does that have to do with the Collectors being able to tear there way through most defenses?

Shepard can't go alone on missions. Mordin is the same guy who killed a Krogan with a pitch fork. Don't count him out at all. Also Liara seem to be known for powerful biotic abilities likely trained by her mother. Vanguard shepard can charge to but if he is better than a likely multiple century old Spectre then I couldn't agree with that. Samara is though. Only war hero shepard has been through super soldier like scenarios alone but it was likely by using guerilla warfare. Other than that we haven't seen shepard take on anyone one on one at a Spectre level.

Well, all you have to do with the lasers, if I'm reading the wiki right, is turn them on and mark hostiles.  If you live in a place where an attack is expected, at the first sign of an alert, the security guy should be doing something. >_>

Fair enough.  The point is, you aren't necessarily packing Zaeed and Garrus with you.  I'm not counting Mordin out, believe me, he's one of my favorite companions, but he's very fragile (and old).  He should be an easy enough target for someone who can apparently take Shep one on one.  Liara probably was not trained by her mother; they seemed to have some sort of fight (and Asari tend to gain power as they age) and haven't spoken for some time, if I remember ME 1 correctly.  Yes, Samara and Jack are likely stronger biotics than Vasir. 
Well, Shep can kill Wrex. >___>

[1136342t54_]

BlueMagitek wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

What does that have to do with the Collectors being able to tear there way through most defenses?

Shepard can't go alone on missions. Mordin is the same guy who killed a Krogan with a pitch fork. Don't count him out at all. Also Liara seem to be known for powerful biotic abilities likely trained by her mother. Vanguard shepard can charge to but if he is better than a likely multiple century old Spectre then I couldn't agree with that. Samara is though. Only war hero shepard has been through super soldier like scenarios alone but it was likely by using guerilla warfare. Other than that we haven't seen shepard take on anyone one on one at a Spectre level.

Well, all you have to do with the lasers, if I'm reading the wiki right, is turn them on and mark hostiles.  If you live in a place where an attack is expected, at the first sign of an alert, the security guy should be doing something. >_>

Fair enough.  The point is, you aren't necessarily packing Zaeed and Garrus with you.  I'm not counting Mordin out, believe me, he's one of my favorite companions, but he's very fragile (and old).  He should be an easy enough target for someone who can apparently take Shep one on one.  Liara probably was not trained by her mother; they seemed to have some sort of fight (and Asari tend to gain power as they age) and haven't spoken for some time, if I remember ME 1 correctly.  Yes, Samara and Jack are likely stronger biotics than Vasir. 
Well, Shep can kill Wrex. >___>

Actually it seems all of those people on Freedom's Progress were taken out so quickly that they couldn't even turn the mechs on in time. On Horizon the ship was in atmosphere and already had sent out the seeker swarms before sensors even picked them up. It likely takes advanced sensors like ones on the Normandy to pick them up.

Mordin can also paralyze a his victims. (Neural shock) Vasir still likely didn't care about fighting all of them at once. Also Liara was either trained by her mother  or the time she mentions killing mercenaries went on for a lot longer then any of us once thought. Even when the ME2 specific site was up it mentions how Liara is a very powerful Asari biotic. She likely was trained or learned through training.

Either way Vasir is tough enough to fight other Spectres even when heavily injured. Before that she biotically kicked Shepard. That wasn't just gravity.

[CamlTowPetttingZoo]

I'm confused, is there some new problem regarding the Asari? I get that they don't seem to be military driven like the Turians but do they not want to help now or something?

[BlueMagitek]

Fair enough then.

I disagree that Vasir can take Shepard, I can't say too much about Liara, she rarely left the Normandy in ME 1 (Noveria being the exception) and I didn't really care for her in ME 2, so she might be powerful; but, if Vasir is stronger than a biotic Shepard (and is likely older than Liara), shouldn't she be stronger than Liara as well? Considering she spends most of her time running, attempting to snipe Liara from a distance & exploding a building full of civilians, I would say she isn't as tough a cookie as Shepard.

* With an army that respawns every now and then

[1136342t54_]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Fair enough then.

I disagree that Vasir can take Shepard, I can't say too much about Liara, she rarely left the Normandy in ME 1 (Noveria being the exception) and I didn't really care for her in ME 2, so she might be powerful; but, if Vasir is stronger than a biotic Shepard (and is likely older than Liara), shouldn't she be stronger than Liara as well? Considering she spends most of her time running, attempting to snipe Liara from a distance & exploding a building full of civilians, I would say she isn't as tough a cookie as Shepard.

* With an army that respawns every now and then

Well trained indivduals like Spectres can be more like Assassins. Thane prefers to get in close to kill targets. Vasir likely prefers to snipe Liara and have it blamed on rivals on the Broker. She probably prefers to play it smart and let it know Spectres were not involved.

Plus Vasir running from Liara basically was her saying she had the info the broker wanted and the Broker had an entire army that should be able to kill Iiara and Shepard. There was no reason for her to stay and fight.

[BlueMagitek]

1136342t54 wrote...

Well trained indivduals like Spectres can be more like Assassins. Thane prefers to get in close to kill targets. Vasir likely prefers to snipe Liara and have it blamed on rivals on the Broker. She probably prefers to play it smart and let it know Spectres were not involved.

Plus Vasir running from Liara basically was her saying she had the info the broker wanted and the Broker had an entire army that should be able to kill Iiara and Shepard. There was no reason for her to stay and fight.

I don't disagree, I'm just saying that she's fragile compared to Shepard, who could likely take her in CQC (or at long range if Shep is an infiltrator or has a gap closer like the vanguard). 

Tying up loose ends, maybe?  Even if the Council doesn't believe Shepard about the Reapers, he has a great record dealing with Spectres and nonhuman witnesses with impressive resumes (Mordin : STG, Samara : Justicar, ...okay, that's about it...).

[1136342t54_]

BlueMagitek wrote...
I don't disagree, I'm just saying that she's fragile compared to Shepard, who could likely take her in CQC (or at long range if Shep is an infiltrator or has a gap closer like the vanguard). 

ME1 Shepard is likely just as fragile possibly even moreso. ME2 Shepard could be less since he has cybernetic enhancements. Remember this is the same Vasir who survived a car crash. Can carry two weapons a rifle and a pistol in either hand and kill a crap load of bots along the way while limping. Then after getting shot again or hit by a table can keep going and still be a very very dangerous enemy. That is a lot of durabiltiy.

Tying up loose ends, maybe?  Even if the Council doesn't believe Shepard about the Reapers, he has a great record dealing with Spectres and nonhuman witnesses with impressive resumes (Mordin : STG, Samara : Justicar, ...okay, that's about it...).

Shepard has some excellent backup while dealing with Spectres. ME2 shepard's team are extraordinary in there fields. Even Miranda is heavily genetically enhanced.

[BlueMagitek]

1136342t54 wrote...
ME1 Shepard is likely just as fragile possibly even moreso. ME2 Shepard could be less since he has cybernetic enhancements. Remember this is the same Vasir who survived a car crash. Can carry two weapons a rifle and a pistol in either hand and kill a crap load of bots along the way while limping. Then after getting shot again or hit by a table can keep going and still be a very very dangerous enemy. That is a lot of durabiltiy.

Shepard has some excellent backup while dealing with Spectres. ME2 shepard's team are extraordinary in there fields. Even Miranda is heavily genetically enhanced.

Only if you stick with Onyx I.
If Biotic Shields can incoming fire I'm sure they can deal with a car crash, to an extent, anyway.  And the suit itself has normal shields, they're just taken out for gameplay.  Heck, if Grunt is to be believed, Quarians are naturally tougher than humans & asari.

No, Shepard tells a Spectre to shoot themself in the face, and they'll do it.  Happened every time he's tried it.
But like I said, loose ends, the Shadowbroker doesn't like them and his pocket Spectre shouldn't either.

[Ansa2791]

didymos1120 wrote...

OK, just because someone has to....

Cheating on Liara.

whoops

[1136342t54_]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Only if you stick with Onyx I.
If Biotic Shields can incoming fire I'm sure they can deal with a car crash, to an extent, anyway.  And the suit itself has normal shields, they're just taken out for gameplay.  Heck, if Grunt is to be believed, Quarians are naturally tougher than humans & asari.

That is highly doubtful. I doubt you have been in a car crash that can actually wreck your car and nearly kill the occupant. Also that wasn't a normal car. Those vehicles likely move faster than normal cars and its crash is more akin to a plane crash. Also Kinetic shields activate depending on how much force hits. I also doubt Vasir would have a biotic barrier on her at the point while trying to evade someone.

No, Shepard tells a Spectre to shoot themself in the face, and they'll do it.  Happened every time he's tried it.
But like I said, loose ends, the Shadowbroker doesn't like them and his pocket Spectre shouldn't either.

Shepard tells a weak willed Spectre who also is very very conflicted over what he should do. That Spectre before getting pumped full of Reaper enhancements easily brushed off that same Shepard's previous paragon or renegade attempt to turn him. Try something else.

[BlueMagitek]

1136342t54 wrote...

That is highly doubtful. I doubt you have been in a car crash that can actually wreck your car and nearly kill the occupant. Also that wasn't a normal car. Those vehicles likely move faster than normal cars and its crash is more akin to a plane crash. Also Kinetic shields activate depending on how much force hits. I also doubt Vasir would have a biotic barrier on her at the point while trying to evade someone.

Shepard tells a weak willed Spectre who also is very very conflicted over what he should do. That Spectre before getting pumped full of Reaper enhancements easily brushed off that same Shepard's previous paragon or renegade attempt to turn him. Try something else.

As opposed to kinetic & biotic barriers that block explosions, supersonic velocity bullets and rampaging Krogan?  Why wouldn't someone who is in a chase scene not keep their guard up?  Even if she isn't keeping a biotic barrier up, her kinetic one should be on (unless she turned it off somehow, but if she did, then she's really not the sharpest knife in the bin, now is she?). 

Weak willed?  I don't know about that; to think that someone, a Turian especially, would make it to the rank of Spectre (and then to top agent), and be weak willed is a bit of an insult.  You should be arguing against my point because Shepard is convincing Saren that there is another way, who then manages to shrug off indoctrination enough to put an end to it (I doubt he knew he'd go Reaper Zombie).  Make a stronger argument next time. =D

[1136342t54_]

BlueMagitek wrote...

As opposed to kinetic & biotic barriers that block explosions,

Game mechanics it doesn't block thermal temperatures.

supersonic velocity bullets

Accurate.

and rampaging Krogan?

Game mechanics. Krogan move to slow to activate them.

Why wouldn't someone who is in a chase scene not keep their guard up?

Biotic barriers take up focus and it is quite possible that she had it up to downgrade the damage to her. The problem is Barriers have trouble blocking large objects unless your on a ship or vehicle.

Even if she isn't keeping a biotic barrier up, her kinetic one should be on (unless she turned it off somehow, but if she did, then she's really not the sharpest knife in the bin, now is she?). 

Kinetic barriers seem to only block projectiles like hypervelocity rounds or low velocity old style bullets.

Weak willed?  I don't know about that; to think that someone, a Turian especially, would make it to the rank of Spectre (and then to top agent), and be weak willed is a bit of an insult.  You should be arguing against my point because Shepard is convincing Saren that there is another way, who then manages to shrug off indoctrination enough to put an end to it (I doubt he knew he'd go Reaper Zombie).  Make a stronger argument next time. =D

So you ignore the part about how Saren at the end of ME1 was so pumped full of Reaper enhancements that it will compromise his mind? Oh yeah I'm sure Saren's mind was perfectly fine at that point. /sarcasm

[D.Kain]

Biotic barrier blocks anything, heat, small-large objects, projectiles, it just fatigues the user. I mean the real biotic barrier - power. What biotics had in ME2 instead of shields I don't even know..

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

Biotic barrier blocks anything, heat, small-large objects, projectiles, it just fatigues the user. I mean the real biotic barrier - power. What biotics had in ME2 instead of shields I don't even know..

Game mechanics. In fluff an according to the codex biotic barriers or kinetic barriers can't block thermal energy. Large objects are difficult to block by biotics and if they are going slow teh Kinetic barrier won't stop it unless it is put on a certain setting.

[BlueMagitek]

1136342t54 wrote...

Game mechanics it doesn't block thermal temperatures.

Accurate.

Game mechanics. Krogan move to slow to activate them.

Biotic barriers take up focus and it is quite possible that she had it up to downgrade the damage to her. The problem is Barriers have trouble blocking large objects unless your on a ship or vehicle.

Kinetic barriers seem to only block projectiles like hypervelocity rounds or low velocity old style bullets.


So you ignore the part about how Saren at the end of ME1 was so pumped full of Reaper enhancements that it will compromise his mind? Oh yeah I'm sure Saren's mind was perfectly fine at that point. /sarcasm

Flame does harm shields, you've got that right!  But then again, incinerate is a power, so it's a game mechanic....
>_>


Krogans move too slow to activate shields?  Oh you and your shenanigans. 

I don't know about that, considering you hold the shields up in combat, which should move your focus from, you know, maintaining your shield to the enemy that's all up in your grill. 

They're also capable of blocking physical attacks. 'cause you can walk into them and they don't go away.  In fact, you use them for cover~! =0

Oh no, I agree, he was fighting off indoctrination, he says so himself!  But to call Saren weak willed is an insult to him and that human on Feros who both managed to fight their indoctrination (Saren with some convincing) enough to take themselves out.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Biotic barrier blocks anything, heat, small-large objects, projectiles, it just fatigues the user. I mean the real biotic barrier - power. What biotics had in ME2 instead of shields I don't even know..

Game mechanics. In fluff an according to the codex biotic barriers or kinetic barriers can't block thermal energy. Large objects are difficult to block by biotics and if they are going slow teh Kinetic barrier won't stop it unless it is put on a certain setting.

Well biotic barriers SHOULD protect from physical damage and thermal energy. It is basically thin air wall with huge mass, should protect as much as a stone wall, no thermal energy or objects go through a solid wall, unless the wall is broken down.