167 réponses à ce sujet

[1136342t54_]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Flame does harm shields, you've got that right!  But then again, incinerate is a power, so it's a game mechanic....
>_>


Krogans move too slow to activate shields?  Oh you and your shenanigans. 

I don't know about that, considering you hold the shields up in combat, which should move your focus from, you know, maintaining your shield to the enemy that's all up in your grill. 

They're also capable of blocking physical attacks. 'cause you can walk into them and they don't go away.  In fact, you use them for cover~! =0

[color=rgb(0, 0, 0)">Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most ]mass accelerator[/color][/url][color=rgb(0, 0, 0)"> ]starship[/color][/url][color=rgb(0, 0, 0)"> ]Kinetic barriers are repulsive [/color]mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

This is from the Armor codex.

The outer layer consists of automatically-generated kinetic barriers. Objects traveling above a certain speed will trigger the barrier's reflex system and be deflected, provided there is enough energy left in the shield's power cell.


That is from the codex. All of it.

Oh no, I agree, he was fighting off indoctrination, he says so himself!  But to call Saren weak willed is an insult to him and that human on Feros who both managed to fight their indoctrination (Saren with some convincing) enough to take themselves out.

That human on Feros wasn't indoctrinated by a Reaper but by a plant. Saren was indoctrinated by a millions of year old Reaper. At that point his will power was low enough that he realized he had two choices. Follow sovereign or kill himself. Shepard is the only one who will bring this up.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 14 octobre 2011 - 04:16 .

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Biotic barrier blocks anything, heat, small-large objects, projectiles, it just fatigues the user. I mean the real biotic barrier - power. What biotics had in ME2 instead of shields I don't even know..

Game mechanics. In fluff an according to the codex biotic barriers or kinetic barriers can't block thermal energy. Large objects are difficult to block by biotics and if they are going slow teh Kinetic barrier won't stop it unless it is put on a certain setting.

Well biotic barriers SHOULD protect from physical damage and thermal energy. It is basically thin air wall with huge mass, should protect as much as a stone wall, no thermal energy or objects go through a solid wall, unless the wall is broken down.

Doesn't work that way. Kinetic barriers repels objects it doesn't simply stop it. It doesn't protect from extremes in temperature, toxins, radiation etc. 

Even in the codex ships are vulnerable too lasers and plasma since barriers can't stop those.

[didymos1120]

D.Kain wrote...

What biotics had in ME2 instead of shields I don't even know..

Shields. The dialogue and other lore-oriented material is always about shields.  The distinction is purely a gameplay one.  Grunt having an "Armor" stat is the same thing: it regenerates exactly like shields, it's improved by shield-improving upgrades, and any time he has one of those largely interchangeable, on-mission comments that's shield-related, sure enough, he'll say "Shields".

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 octobre 2011 - 04:14 .

[BlueMagitek]

1136342t54 wrote...

[color=rgb(0, 0, 0)">Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most ]mass accelerator[/color][/url][color=rgb(0, 0, 0)"> ]starship[/color][/url][color=rgb(0, 0, 0)"> ]Kinetic barriers are repulsive [/color]mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

This is from the Armor codex.

The outer layer consists of automatically-generated kinetic barriers. Objects traveling above a certain speed will trigger the barrier's reflex system and be deflected, provided there is enough energy left in the shield's power cell.
That is from the codex.

That human on Feros wasn't indoctrinated by a Reaper but by a plant. Saren was indoctrinated by a millions of year old Reaper. At that point his will power was low enough that he realized he had two choices. Follow sovereign or kill himself. Shepard is the only one who will bring this up.

http://images.wikia....Codex_Image.jpg

Explain yourself!

Oh, and now you're hating on the Thorian?  That's just uncalled for.  We know he's quite old as well, possibly making it through multiple Reaper cycles.  And now you're bringing up things without support in the game, with your belief on Saren's mental status.  Stop hating on all the fun characters! D=

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

Doesn't work that way. Kinetic barriers repels objects it doesn't simply stop it. It doesn't protect from extremes in temperature, toxins, radiation etc. 

Even in the codex ships are vulnerable too lasers and plasma since barriers can't stop those.

Why is it a problem for a biotic to stop onbjects if he/she can move objects? EZ changes the mass of space-time. How can anything travel trough a high gravity field? It would feel like a solid wall in thin air.

[1136342t54_]

BlueMagitek wrote...

http://images.wikia....Codex_Image.jpg

Explain yourself!

Oh, and now you're hating on the Thorian?  That's just uncalled for.  We know he's quite old as well, possibly making it through multiple Reaper cycles.  And now you're bringing up things without support in the game, with your belief on Saren's mental status.  Stop hating on all the fun characters! D=

That picture is of a Kinetic barrier put on a setting to stop slow moving objects. What is your point?

Also the Thorian in comparison to Sovereign isn't as powerful and has different ways to indoctrinate people. Sovereign is a older more powerful being I'd say Soveriegn's indoctrination is more effective than the Thorian. The Thorian uses pain to control its subject. Sovereign truly makes people believe it is a god by changing there very state of mind.

Saren is a cool but also sadistic character. Even Saren was afraid of indoctrination. In the end he knew he didn't have enough power to keep resisting the Reaper and had only one way out.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Doesn't work that way. Kinetic barriers repels objects it doesn't simply stop it. It doesn't protect from extremes in temperature, toxins, radiation etc. 

Even in the codex ships are vulnerable too lasers and plasma since barriers can't stop those.

Why is it a problem for a biotic to stop onbjects if he/she can move objects? EZ changes the mass of space-time. How can anything travel trough a high gravity field? It would feel like a solid wall in thin air.

Kinetic barriers repulse objects I doubt it actually changes its mass but I would need a dev to come in here to change my mind on that. It doesn't make a high gravity field it repulses objects. If you don't believe me read the codex  regarding kinetic barriers and armor.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Doesn't work that way. Kinetic barriers repels objects it doesn't simply stop it. It doesn't protect from extremes in temperature, toxins, radiation etc. 

Even in the codex ships are vulnerable too lasers and plasma since barriers can't stop those.

Why is it a problem for a biotic to stop onbjects if he/she can move objects? EZ changes the mass of space-time. How can anything travel trough a high gravity field? It would feel like a solid wall in thin air.

Kinetic barriers repulse objects I doubt it actually changes its mass but I would need a dev to come in here to change my mind on that. It doesn't make a high gravity field it repulses objects. If you don't believe me read the codex  regarding kinetic barriers and armor.

I know what kinetic barriers do. I just think that biotic barriers should be completely different from kinetic barriers. Again why wouldn't a biotic make a mass effect field that would act like a solid wall? Isn't that what stasis basically does around the target, with a different reaction to objects that travel from the other side with an upgrade? Stasis does make the target immune to all damage otherwise. Why can't a biotic make a moving stasis field around himself and tune the field to allow things to travel from withing the stasis?

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Doesn't work that way. Kinetic barriers repels objects it doesn't simply stop it. It doesn't protect from extremes in temperature, toxins, radiation etc. 

Even in the codex ships are vulnerable too lasers and plasma since barriers can't stop those.

Why is it a problem for a biotic to stop onbjects if he/she can move objects? EZ changes the mass of space-time. How can anything travel trough a high gravity field? It would feel like a solid wall in thin air.

Kinetic barriers repulse objects I doubt it actually changes its mass but I would need a dev to come in here to change my mind on that. It doesn't make a high gravity field it repulses objects. If you don't believe me read the codex  regarding kinetic barriers and armor.

I know what kinetic barriers do. I just think that biotic barriers should be completely different from kinetic barriers. Again why wouldn't a biotic make a mass effect field that would act like a solid wall? Isn't that what stasis basically does around the target, with a different reaction to objects that travel from the other side with an upgrade? Stasis does make the target immune to all damage otherwise. Why can't a biotic make a moving stasis field around himself and tune the field to allow things to travel from withing the stasis?

Biotic barriers act the same as kinetic barriers. Hell that wall kinetic barrier doesn't act like its supposed to. It is supposed to actually repl the object not let you lean on it. 

Edit: Stasis seems to basically create a field that freezes that target possibly repelling every single source of movement even in the muscle.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 14 octobre 2011 - 04:35 .

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Doesn't work that way. Kinetic barriers repels objects it doesn't simply stop it. It doesn't protect from extremes in temperature, toxins, radiation etc. 

Even in the codex ships are vulnerable too lasers and plasma since barriers can't stop those.

Why is it a problem for a biotic to stop onbjects if he/she can move objects? EZ changes the mass of space-time. How can anything travel trough a high gravity field? It would feel like a solid wall in thin air.

Kinetic barriers repulse objects I doubt it actually changes its mass but I would need a dev to come in here to change my mind on that. It doesn't make a high gravity field it repulses objects. If you don't believe me read the codex  regarding kinetic barriers and armor.

I know what kinetic barriers do. I just think that biotic barriers should be completely different from kinetic barriers. Again why wouldn't a biotic make a mass effect field that would act like a solid wall? Isn't that what stasis basically does around the target, with a different reaction to objects that travel from the other side with an upgrade? Stasis does make the target immune to all damage otherwise. Why can't a biotic make a moving stasis field around himself and tune the field to allow things to travel from withing the stasis?

Biotic barriers act the same as kinetic barriers. Hell that wall kinetic barrier doesn't act like its supposed to. It is supposed to actually repl the object not let you lean on it. 

Why are biotic barriers the same as kinetic barriers? Repeling happens when a mass effect field with huge mass collapses. Maybe that's how kinetic barriers stop small projectiles, they get caught into the mass effect field because they are small and then get reppeled when the field collapses. But biotic barriers should be a whole different story, biotic fields can just make unpasable walls. 

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

Why are biotic barriers the same as kinetic barriers? Repeling happens when a mass effect field with huge mass collapses. Maybe that's how kinetic barriers stop small projectiles, they get caught into the mass effect field because they are small and then get reppeled when the field collapses. But biotic barriers should be a whole different story, biotic fields can just make unpasable walls. 

Biotic barriers use the same properties as Kinetic barriers. They act in a repulsive nature and deflect small or even large objects depending on the setting. Biotic fields are a different story since they can be made to freeze or lift someone up. Hell when Liara put up a Biotic barrier she deflected all of that glass further proving the similarity. Even Samara's SM barrier were noticeably deflecting seeker swarms.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

Biotic barriers use the same properties as Kinetic barriers. They act in a repulsive nature and deflect small or even large objects depending on the setting. Biotic fields are a different story since they can be made to freeze or lift someone up. Hell when Liara put up a Biotic barrier she deflected all of that glass further proving the similarity. Even Samara's SM barrier were noticeably deflecting seeker swarms.

Yes that's what I am talking about. When I talk about biotic barriers = sustained mass effect fields around the biotic and it can protect from anything, small, large or thermal.

Modifié par D.Kain, 14 octobre 2011 - 04:46 .

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Biotic barriers use the same properties as Kinetic barriers. They act in a repulsive nature and deflect small or even large objects depending on the setting. Biotic fields are a different story since they can be made to freeze or lift someone up. Hell when Liara put up a Biotic barrier she deflected all of that glass further proving the similarity. Even Samara's SM barrier were noticeably deflecting seeker swarms.

Yes that's what I am talking about. When I talk about biotic barriers = sustained mass effect fields around the biotic and it can protect from anything, small, large or thermal.

It can't protect from Thermal. That is impossible due to the nature of ME fields.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

It can't protect from Thermal. That is impossible due to the nature of ME fields.

Why? What is the difference between stopping a human body, bullet or a heated particle other than the size? You think mass effect fields only work on things of paticular size?

[UnadoptedTrack]

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

It can't protect from Thermal. That is impossible due to the nature of ME fields.

Why? What is the difference between stopping a human body, bullet or a heated particle other than the size? You think mass effect fields only work on things of paticular size?

They can stop physical objects, not energy.

[wizardryforever]

Despite how off-topic this is, I'll chime in on the nature of kinetic barriers (shields) vs biotic barriers.  They are functionally the same thing.  The only difference is one is generated synthetically, with an artificial energy source and emitter, and the other is generated with brain electrochemistry.  They do the same things, and they both require technology to produce (amplifiers in the case of biotics).  The differences that have been cited are gameplay concerns. 

As for why biotic barriers aren't just a wall in space, it's for the same reason shields aren't just a wall in space.  Because doing so would block out air (possibly light and sound as well, depending on the strength), and keep the user from being able to manipulate the enivronment in any kind of gentle way.  Sitting in a chair would be impossible, as the barrier would propel it away.  Working on a console would also be impossible, as said console would likely be destroyed or damaged beyond repair when the barrier repelled it.  Hence why shields are calibrated to only block fast moving objects, and biotics are trained to make their barriers function the same way.  Not to mention that such barriers would be a huge drain on the energy source, whereas the more selective versions are more efficient.

[D.Kain]

UnadoptedTrack wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

It can't protect from Thermal. That is impossible due to the nature of ME fields.

Why? What is the difference between stopping a human body, bullet or a heated particle other than the size? You think mass effect fields only work on things of paticular size?

They can stop physical objects, not energy.

Energy is made of heated micro particles, they are a subject to gravity too. I don't mean heat like lasers/sun of course to stop that you would need the power of a black hole, but plasma, flame those things can be stoped.

[SandTrout]

D.Kain wrote...

Energy is made of heated micro particles, they are a subject to gravity too. I don't mean heat like lasers/sun of course to stop that you would need the power of a black hole, but plasma, flame those things can be stoped.

I'm not even sure how a discussion about Asari got to this but...

The heat from the flames would be transmitted in great deal through radiation (primarily low frequency IR). Additionally, if your shield is going to stop every high-velocity molecule, a burst of plasma (a huge number of extremely fast ionized particles) would rapidly overload your shield systems and transfer a great deal of energy to the air inside your shield regardless.

[knightnblu]

With the simultaneous assault on the galaxy, each race is concerned with protecting its own citizens. The Asari, like everyone else, will initially focus on saving their own people first. This is because it is a natural reaction, if one that will insure the doom of all. The reason for that response will be because of terror permeating their race and they will be thinking of their own survival first. This will be the reaction of every species in the galaxy. The only exception to this rule will be the Geth, although they may not choose to join for other reasons.
 
Imagine a group of drowning people. Only a fool would dare to jump in and save them. This is because a drowning man or woman will use whatever they can to keep afloat. This is because to such a person all that matters is to stay alive. That the urge to survive will override any other thought process because the person is panicked and not thinking rationally. Fear rules such a mind and fear will be pervasive in the minds of the galactic races. That is why the Asari will not leap to the defense of the galaxy. They will bunker down and try to ride it out and if they are allowed to do so, they will perish.

[TobyHasEyes]

knightnblu wrote...

With the simultaneous assault on the galaxy, each race is concerned with protecting its own citizens. The Asari, like everyone else, will initially focus on saving their own people first. This is because it is a natural reaction, if one that will insure the doom of all. The reason for that response will be because of terror permeating their race and they will be thinking of their own survival first. This will be the reaction of every species in the galaxy. The only exception to this rule will be the Geth, although they may not choose to join for other reasons.
 
Imagine a group of drowning people. Only a fool would dare to jump in and save them. This is because a drowning man or woman will use whatever they can to keep afloat. This is because to such a person all that matters is to stay alive. That the urge to survive will override any other thought process because the person is panicked and not thinking rationally. Fear rules such a mind and fear will be pervasive in the minds of the galactic races. That is why the Asari will not leap to the defense of the galaxy. They will bunker down and try to ride it out and if they are allowed to do so, they will perish.

 Wouldn't a better metaphor be four people in an area of water, with no visible way of reaching land? In which case you have to ask whether the natural reaction would be to swim towards each other, attempt to devise a plan, attempt to help each other stay afloat etc. or to all stay apart?

 You can't help but wonder if in such dangerous circumstances these races will band together out of natural necessity

[BlueMagitek]

1136342t54 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

http://images.wikia....Codex_Image.jpg

Explain yourself!

Oh, and now you're hating on the Thorian?  That's just uncalled for.  We know he's quite old as well, possibly making it through multiple Reaper cycles.  And now you're bringing up things without support in the game, with your belief on Saren's mental status.  Stop hating on all the fun characters! D=

That picture is of a Kinetic barrier put on a setting to stop slow moving objects. What is your point?

Also the Thorian in comparison to Sovereign isn't as powerful and has different ways to indoctrinate people. Sovereign is a older more powerful being I'd say Soveriegn's indoctrination is more effective than the Thorian. The Thorian uses pain to control its subject. Sovereign truly makes people believe it is a god by changing there very state of mind.

Saren is a cool but also sadistic character. Even Saren was afraid of indoctrination. In the end he knew he didn't have enough power to keep resisting the Reaper and had only one way out.

Yes, yes it is.  Stopping people!  I'm not sure why you think that a car crash would get through that.  Well, the Mako can, but the Mako goes where it pleases.  Aside from really sharp inclines. >_>
But yes, she probably did take blunt trauma damage.  Almost certainly. =D

I'm going to go ahead and claim that Reaper Tech augmentation is rather painful, as is husk transformation.  And we do know something; the Thorian's indoctrination undid whatever indoctrination that afflicted Shiala, so claiming one to be greater than the other isn't cool. D=

But he only did that when he was convinced of it and used his will to fight Sovereign's hold over him. >_>

[1136342t54_]

BlueMagitek wrote...

That picture is of a Kinetic barrier put on a setting to stop slow moving objects. What is your point?

You have to think about Game mechanics also. That shouldn't even happend due to the nature of Kinetic barriers anyway. There is a reason why they don't show Kinetic barriers as a wall or use them as cover in future games or novels.

Yes, yes it is.  Stopping people!  I'm not sure why you think that a car crash would get through that.  Well, the Mako can, but the Mako goes where it pleases.  Aside from really sharp inclines. >_>
But yes, she probably did take blunt trauma damage.  Almost certainly. =D

It wouldn't stop all of the damage and probably not even most of it.

I'm going to go ahead and claim that Reaper Tech augmentation is rather painful, as is husk transformation.  And we do know something; the Thorian's indoctrination undid whatever indoctrination that afflicted Shiala, so claiming one to be greater than the other isn't cool. D=

But he only did that when he was convinced of it and used his will to fight Sovereign's hold over him. >_>

Well according to one of the writers Drew Karpyshn (forgot how to spell name correctly) Talked about how indoctrination slowly transforms someone and evovles them into a whole new being. It isn't mind control in that sense at all nor does it uses pain to really turn someone.

What the Thorian did to Shiala was different. It effectively was in a continuos close meld with Shiala. More closer than what it did to the colonists.  Plus you have to remember Shiala was never fully indoctrinated. If she was she would have been huskified.

Saren specifically said that Sovereign was to strong and it was too late for him. Shepard tells him the one thing he could do (kill himself). Saren noticing he isn't strong enough to keep resisting Saren shoots himself in the head.

[ScorpSt]

The real problem is that they lack a real cohesive leadership. There's going to be hundreds of Matriarchs who want to lead the Asari people every which way. Shepard will have to help them choose the right leader, despite all the political maneuvering the others try to do.

In the end, it will likely come down to 2-3 candidates that are willing to work with you and you have to get one of them into a position where she can command the asari fleets.

[1136342t54_]

ScorpSt wrote...

The real problem is that they lack a real cohesive leadership. There's going to be hundreds of Matriarchs who want to lead the Asari people every which way. Shepard will have to help them choose the right leader, despite all the political maneuvering the others try to do.

In the end, it will likely come down to 2-3 candidates that are willing to work with you and you have to get one of them into a position where she can command the asari fleets.

Actually if that was the case the Asari government would never work. The thing is the Asari are fairly united enough that Direct Democracy is very realistic for them and the Matriarchs who are effectively at the top of the Hierarchy are capable of governing effectively. Militarily they would need to be more united but then againless united military does have its benefits.

[Sisterofshane]

ScorpSt wrote...

The real problem is that they lack a real cohesive leadership. There's going to be hundreds of Matriarchs who want to lead the Asari people every which way. Shepard will have to help them choose the right leader, despite all the political maneuvering the others try to do.

In the end, it will likely come down to 2-3 candidates that are willing to work with you and you have to get one of them into a position where she can command the asari fleets.

So true.  As far as potential, the asari can become the greatest allies in the upcoming war, especially with their natural biotics and sheer numbers alone.  That can only happen if the Asari manage to focus (stop wandering as maidens and militarize formally) and unite under a common leader (be it Shep or one of the more powerful matriarchs).