29 réponses à ce sujet

[Myusha]

Poor Meredith. Corrupted by that sword D :

[Knight of Dane]

She's a nutcase, was before the sward too.

[Myusha]

She saved Kirkwall from a tyrannical reign. More Heroic instead of Maniacal. It's just her heroism made her power overstep her boundaries somewhat and got her a bit of a power high. Stupid sword just ate that right up.

Kinda like Bartrand.

[Knight of Dane]

Nah, obvious case of the crazies from the beginning.

[Myusha]

How so?

[Knight of Dane]

The game explains that for you.

[Myusha]

I missed that part.

[Knight of Dane]

Would explain your blindness

[Tyrium]

hey guys, no need to get hostile!

My interpretation is she was crazy from the start. That's just my interpretation though.

[CuriousArtemis]

The way I see it, the idol just intensifies already negative traits in a person. Bartrand was already not the greatest guy in the world ... he was mean, small-minded, and greedy. Meredith was fanatical in her mistrust of mages, and she was very stern and unyielding. She wasn't psychotic. Her humanity tempered her mistrust. But the idol stripped away her humanity and made her nutto

[Chiramu]

 The mages should've used passive aggressive tactics to fight the templars instead of giving Meredith the fight she wanted. More people should watch Gandhi, www.imdb.com/title/tt0083987/ 

[Myusha]

Totally. I see Meredith dancing naked in Kirkwall each night, slitting her wrists with Orsino.
And I concur with moto's assessment of the scenario. Meredith's trust of mages was skewered due to her childhood, but outright crazy from the get-go? Noperz.

[Fauxnormal]

Poor Meredith? No way in hell. That psychotic cow gets no pity from me. She may have been driven nuts by the sword, but she wasn't exactly a rational and fair minded person before.

[jamesp81]

She had a case of the epic crazies from the get-go. Treats mages like criminals whether they are or not, and wants to seize political power in Kirkwall.

So, not just crazy, but murdering, cruel, power-hungry, AND crazy. Putting that rabid **** down did the whole world an enormous favor.

Modifié par jamesp81, 14 octobre 2011 - 04:58 .

[Fauxnormal]

jamesp81 wrote...

She had a case of the epic crazies from the get-go. Treats mages like criminals whether they are or not, and wants to seize political power in Kirkwall.

So, not just crazy, but murdering, cruel, power-hungry, AND crazy. Putting that rabid **** down did the whole world an enormous favor.

Haha, I think I love you.

[Arquen]

I actually liked Meredith as a tragic villain type character. She wasnt a bad person, honestly. She just is the perfect example of what too much stress, a twisted sense of justice, and power plus a crazy idol can do to a person.

I felt some empathy for her when she recounted the story of her apostate sister turning into an abomination. I honestly can see her point in "If you cannot show me a better way" dialogue. Its a shame she had to go batsh** crazy at the end though. She is like the epitome of murphy's law, lol.

[Myusha]

She was seventy people she knew and loved, including her parents die at the hands of her sister, and lived to see past that. She came into power, after her own Knight-Captain was slain probably through the desire and want of revenge. She was put into the Templar mindset, possibly put onto Lyrium.

One of her friends was Elthina, the Grand Cleric, and a good portion of the rumors against her were not true. Bethany writes to you of how the Templars are mostly polite, and Carver writes of how although the methods aren't THE BEST, most mages understand they're trying to help. These letters are from Act 2.

Meredith desires to see the City safe, and manages to put up with Three or more years of dealing with the Red Lyrium's Corruption while Bartrand succumbed in almost minutes. Consider how badly the Fade has been torn underground too. Mages are hearing demons, Non-Mages can become possessed, insanity is slowly seeping into everyone's minds, and for her entire life. She denies Ser Alrik's plans of Tranquility, and tries to keep order.

Look at the Blood Mages Hawke encounters. He kills practically every single one due to self-defense. Now if those same Blood Mages were in the Gallows, don't you think the Templars would have a hard time, see their friends die due to some mage's outburst? The harsh conditions were for the sake of the city and the Templars' Safety.

Somewhere along the way, Meredith lost it, but she isn't the evil monster Anders thinks she is. Until the very very end. Stacking up traumtic incidents, constant rumors of her being some mindless horror that hunts Mages and other such accusations, alongside lyrium addiction, a broken Veil, constant Blood Mages, and that stupid Idol . She even saves with the very worst circumstances, Two Blood Mages, One Abomination, and a Lyrium-Infused killer, and offers them pardon for their assistance. She allows a Mage to take the lead in saving the city.

Kirkwall was her home. And her failure in the end, to see what became of her and how she strangled the very thing she wanted to protect...was sad. That's why I pity her, and it's the differing opinions that make this game great. 

Modifié par Myusha, 15 octobre 2011 - 10:20 .

[Fauxnormal]

Arquen wrote...

I actually liked Meredith as a tragic villain type character. She wasnt a bad person, honestly. She just is the perfect example of what too much stress, a twisted sense of justice, and power plus a crazy idol can do to a person.

I felt some empathy for her when she recounted the story of her apostate sister turning into an abomination. I honestly can see her point in "If you cannot show me a better way" dialogue. Its a shame she had to go batsh** crazy at the end though. She is like the epitome of murphy's law, lol.

She wasn't a bad person? She /wasn't a bad person?/ She didn't care about innocenece or guilt. She didn't care about people as people- if you were a mage, you had to be locked up. Maybe worse. Period. I'm sorry, no, I don't /care/ what you saw or what happened in your life. Much like I told Fenris, stuff it. Because some people do bad things, does not mean you get to punish everyone for their crimes. That's like saying 'oh, once a black guy robbed me, so all black people are evil and should be thrown in jail'. It doesn't work that way.

[Myusha]

Aveline: You show admirable restraint, Bethany.
Bethany: For a mage, you mean.
Aveline: I could also say, "for a Hawke," but yes, for a mage.
Bethany: You have a sword. Why aren't you killing someone right now?
Aveline: Fair point, but I can put my sword down.
Bethany: Believe me, I have tried.

This one conversation almost covers every base. It didn't matter who the hell you were, ANYBODY who was a mage COULD become an Abomination, indulge in Blood Magic, feel the need to prove themselves better then anyone else, summon shades, let their emotions cloud their judgment and actions. Outside of the circle...

Anders: Where did you learn your magic? I mean, you know my feelings on the Circle, but usually it's the only decent training a mage can get.
Bethany: My father taught me. He was in the Circle once, trained there. But he got away.
Anders: You don't know how lucky you were, to have someone who loved you and could help you. Most mages would kill for that.
Bethany: You remind me of him.

Training is scarce. They may not learn how to harness their powers outside the Circle. This makes them a liability, and a risk to everyone around them. A single Abomination killed seventy people in a village before being defeated. Being the hero, these abominations are downplayed in their effectiveness, but they're feared through out Thedas.

Mages created Darkspawn. They can become Abominations. They can break the Fade. They are HAZARDS to THEMSELVES, and EVERYONE around them. It's sad, but TRUE. But, it doesn't take alot to overcome such hazards, and they can be beneficial. But temptation is always there, and there's always someone whose willing to put OTHER people's lives at stake for their own.

Modifié par Myusha, 15 octobre 2011 - 11:07 .

[Nightdragon8]

Act 1 really don't get to see much of her or hear of alot of her actions. IMO fair minded, stable. Act 2 Hero only second to Hawke Act 3 which I think she becomes jelious of Hawkes postion. Which is one of the reasons she wants the Lyrium Idol to give her more power. Which with all the pressures around her with the vacum of power she goes coocoo.

[Fauxnormal]

Myusha wrote...

Aveline: You show admirable restraint, Bethany.
Bethany: For a mage, you mean.
Aveline: I could also say, "for a Hawke," but yes, for a mage.
Bethany: You have a sword. Why aren't you killing someone right now?
Aveline: Fair point, but I can put my sword down.
Bethany: Believe me, I have tried.

This one conversation almost covers every base. It didn't matter who the hell you were, ANYBODY who was a mage COULD become an Abomination, indulge in Blood Magic, feel the need to prove themselves better then anyone else, summon shades, let their emotions cloud their judgment and actions. Outside of the circle...

Anders: Where did you learn your magic? I mean, you know my feelings on the Circle, but usually it's the only decent training a mage can get.
Bethany: My father taught me. He was in the Circle once, trained there. But he got away.
Anders: You don't know how lucky you were, to have someone who loved you and could help you. Most mages would kill for that.
Bethany: You remind me of him.

Training is scarce. They may not learn how to harness their powers outside the Circle. This makes them a liability, and a risk to everyone around them. A single Abomination killed seventy people in a village before being defeated. Being the hero, these abominations are downplayed in their effectiveness, but they're feared through out Thedas.

Mages created Darkspawn. They can become Abominations. They can break the Fade. They are HAZARDS to THEMSELVES, and EVERYONE around them. It's sad, but TRUE. But, it doesn't take alot to overcome such hazards, and they can be beneficial. But temptation is always there, and there's always someone whose willing to put OTHER people's lives at stake for their own.

Yes, mages are the ONLY ONES who can become possessed. I mean, that's why Templars were becoming demons, RIGHT GUYZ?!?!?!! Oh, wait. Didn't a /cat/ become possessed by a rage demon?

ANYONE can become the target of a demon. ANY ONE. Templar, mage, random kid on the street, Knight-Commander him/her self. Mages are /more/ vulnerable, but they are not the one and only super special delicacy.

What a friggin' blind, ignorant attitude, and considering who I'm talking to I'm not surprised. Did you play through this game with your fingers in your ears going LALALALALALA every time something you didn't like came up? 

No one, any where, EVER, /including Anders/, has suggested that mages didn't need proper training. No one, any where, ever, has said that /some/ mages didn't need to be watched and controlled. But to lock up every. single. Mage. for something that they MIGHT MAYBE POSSIBLY HAVE A SMALL CHANCE OF DOING is inane, /insane/, and bull****. And on top of that, go to the gallows. Stand there, unmoving, and listen to the ambient conversation.

It is a a /hell hole/.

Did you NOT get the repeated hints of just how awful the things done to mages are? Play through with a templar Carver. Read his letter.

Go talk to Cullen. CULLEN, who went through hell at the hands of insane mages, by the end of the game.

And yes, mages have the ability to hurt a lot of people. But to quote snarky Hawke, some guys with swords and the Maker on their side never harmed anyone, right?

Just because mages have power doesn't make them any less or more dangerous then a lunatic with, say Gaatlok powder. Or did we /forget/ how many people she hurt without the aid of magic at all?

Or any more or less dangerous then a woman with a vendeta against Qunari. Or did we forget her place in helping start a war?

Or any more or less dangerous then an /insane knight-commander too friggin' stupid to know not the use the lyrium tainted weapon/. Or did we /forget/ what Merideth did towards the end of the game?

Or any more or less dangerous then a zealot pushed to the edge of his control. Or did we /forget/ what happened with the Qunari?

Mages are dangerous. ANYONE is dangerous, under the right circumstances. ANY ONE with power, or skill, who is selfish or frightened or angery or hurt enough to put themselves before anyone else.

(I'm sorry, I  took a shower this morning and I think I still have some Anders in my ear.)

Modifié par Fauxnormal, 15 octobre 2011 - 11:22 .

[Myusha]

Dear Hakwe,

How are you? I hope you and Mother are doing well. Things are good here. I've found my place among the templars. It's nice to have purpose, to be part of something bigger than myself... and you! All right, all right, I'll stop being a pain in the ass.

It's not a perfect job, though. I don't really like what we do to mages, but do we have a choice? It keeps everyone safe, and it's better than the alternative. Many mages understand that we're trying to help, even if our methods could use improvement.

Unfortunately, there are extreme elements within the Order. Some argue for a permanent solution and have ideas I hope never take root. Makes me glad Bethany never had to live in a place like this.

I'll wrap this up. Duty calls. Send my love to Mother.

Your brother,
Carver

He disliked the more extreme elements to the Templars. That's all.
Everyone can become an abomination, yes. But they never do it willingly, as far as we've seen. How many abominations did we have to kill in the Circle Tower? How many mages give into their emotions and become possessed? Cullen realizes how mad Meredith is by the END of the game.

Emphasis on freaking END.

[Fauxnormal]

Myusha wrote...

Dear Hakwe,

How are you? I hope you and Mother are doing well. Things are good here. I've found my place among the templars. It's nice to have purpose, to be part of something bigger than myself... and you! All right, all right, I'll stop being a pain in the ass.

It's not a perfect job, though. I don't really like what we do to mages, but do we have a choice? It keeps everyone safe, and it's better than the alternative. Many mages understand that we're trying to help, even if our methods could use improvement.

Unfortunately, there are extreme elements within the Order. Some argue for a permanent solution and have ideas I hope never take root. Makes me glad Bethany never had to live in a place like this.

I'll wrap this up. Duty calls. Send my love to Mother.

Your brother,
Carver

He disliked the more extreme elements to the Templars. That's all.
Everyone can become an abomination, yes. But they never do it willingly, as far as we've seen. How many abominations did we have to kill in the Circle Tower? How many mages give into their emotions and become possessed? Cullen realizes how mad Meredith is by the END of the game.

Emphasis on freaking END.

And you ignore everything else in my post, and don't even see where you're wrong.

jeez, I'm glad this game is just a game. People like you. Man.

You never went and talked to him, did you? Cullen, that is. Go and do that, mid-game. See what he has to say.

Modifié par Fauxnormal, 15 octobre 2011 - 11:24 .

[Fauxnormal]

Myusha wrote...

. How many abominations did we have to kill in the Circle Tower? How many mages give into their emotions and become possessed?

Oh, WOW, I wonder why THAT happened. Could it be BEACAUSE OF THE TEMPLARS? Why, yes,  I think it was. You know, because they didn't want to be killed, made tranquil, have their freedom taken away, never see their families again, be treated like animals instead of people.

[Myusha]

[You edited before my reply...]Yes. Everything is dangerous. But look at the Tevinter Imperium. Look at Fenris, and see the sorry state they're still in.

Look at what Anders did to Elthina, and other Priests. Look at what Uldred did, Velanna, Marethari and Merrill's actions that led to their own Clan's deaths [Potentially], Orsino, Quentin, Gascard.

Orsino, the Bloody First Enchanter, the one who was entrusted to lead his fellow mages, worked alongside a Serial Killer, insanely trying to resurrect his wife through collecting ****ing bodyparts, otherwise unachievable. Look at the Harvesters mages can BECOME, and Amgarrak. A mage created THOSE Harvesters in Amgarrak ACCIDENTLY. Did you see how MANY there were at the end? And the carnage ONE did?

Regular beings can make wars. But only Mages can create horrors like those, and these are some of THE WORST of the worst.

And Read Bethany's letter.

Modifié par Myusha, 15 octobre 2011 - 11:33 .