LiveLoveThaneKrios wrote...
Ah..some people are going to miss out on the awesomeness I swear.
I don't play games for awesomenes. I play games for epicness.
LiveLoveThaneKrios wrote...
Ah..some people are going to miss out on the awesomeness I swear.
iakus wrote...
LiveLoveThaneKrios wrote...
Ah..some people are going to miss out on the awesomeness I swear.
I don't play games for awesomenes. I play games for epicness.
Chris Priestly wrote...
Oh, and we are not losing fans. We've been steadily increasing our community for years now.
AntiChri5 wrote...
I have no problem with BioWare losing the whiniest portion of it's fanbase.
Hate to say it, but you do sound pretty butthurt.Terror_K wrote...
AntiChri5 wrote...
I have no problem with BioWare losing the whiniest portion of it's fanbase.
If BioWare want to just have a group of people on their forums who do little more than use inane terms like "butthurt" and "haters gonna hate" while they post silly photoshopped images of people with sunglasses with "deal with it" on it and dismiss every piece of criticism with either the former or links to various tropes while they spew labels like "elitist" and "whiners" at people who bring up good arguments because they seem incapable of actually producing anything with any depth or insight themselves, they're certainly going about it the right way.![]()
Modifié par darknoon5, 15 octobre 2011 - 09:10 .
Much as it may hurt me to admit it, but I very much agree with this particular statement.Terror_K wrote...
[...]They're pandering to a group of people who will leave their games behind without so much as a thought and will forget Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age in a few years time when they're blasting away at Call of Duty: Modern ****fare 7, Halo 6 or Assassin's Creed: Persistent Connections, etc.
I think you should drop the illusion that Bioware is interested in fans and not buyers. Fans are useless if they don't buy your products. Bioware wants to sell. To whom is irrelevant. They're a business after all.Terror_K wrote...
[...]They're pandering to a group of people who will leave their games behind without so much as a thought and will forget Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age in a few years time when they're blasting away at Call of Duty: Modern ****fare 7, Halo 6 or Assassin's Creed: Persistent Connections, etc.
darknoon5 wrote...
Hate to say it, but you do sound pretty butthurt.
On the contrary, if Bioware want to lose a portion of their fan base that hates any kind of change, labelling it "dumbed down," and therefore insulting the people who like it, I don't see that as a bad thing. I can't ever remember you bringing up more then a handful of decent points in all your long lists of complaints, you always repeat the same tired, rebutted points, and usually if anybody is bothered to argue with you, well you usually lose the argument.
And there's a difference between good C&C (admiralcheez, for example) and bad C&C.
Azjurai wrote...
darknoon5 wrote...
Hate to say it, but you do sound pretty butthurt.
On the contrary, if Bioware want to lose a portion of their fan base that hates any kind of change, labelling it "dumbed down," and therefore insulting the people who like it, I don't see that as a bad thing. I can't ever remember you bringing up more then a handful of decent points in all your long lists of complaints, you always repeat the same tired, rebutted points, and usually if anybody is bothered to argue with you, well you usually lose the argument.
And there's a difference between good C&C (admiralcheez, for example) and bad C&C.
Most of the hate I see isn't against 'any kind of change', it's against the 'dumbing down' portion of things. There's pretty much no way to say DA2 wasn't dumbed down massively from DA:O for example, or that ME2 wasn't just ME-lite. I conceed both did have better play in some areas (combat more or less for both), but the RPG elements they ripped out were worth much, much more to longterm BioWare fans than fancy shootin'.
I applaud the company for trying to reach out to new fans for sure. More people playing the game is almost always going to be better in the long-term. But killing off your supporters for short-term 'CoD monies' isn't going to do much for the company image. The sales of DA2 should pretty much show that >.>
There's bound to be a way to pacifiy and reach out to both old and new fans, it's just a shame they have yet to find it (so it seems).
Azjurai wrote...
Most of the hate I see isn't against 'any kind of change', it's against the 'dumbing down' portion of things. There's pretty much no way to say DA2 wasn't dumbed down massively from DA:O for example, or that ME2 wasn't just ME-lite. I conceed both did have better play in some areas (combat more or less for both), but the RPG elements they ripped out were worth much, much more to longterm BioWare fans than fancy shootin'.
I applaud the company for trying to reach out to new fans for sure. More people playing the game is almost always going to be better in the long-term. But killing off your supporters for short-term 'CoD monies' isn't going to do much for the company image. The sales of DA2 should pretty much show that >.>
There's bound to be a way to pacifiy and reach out to both old and new fans, it's just a shame they have yet to find it (so it seems).
"Dumbing down" is a silly phrase...do you think it required more intelligence to play ME1 than ME2? DA2 is also a poor example, as it had, what, a year's development time? Plus it's a totally seperate team to the ME team. ME2 is a sequel done right, DA2 is a sequel done wrong. (though DA2 had the potential to be better, and was in a few ways)Azjurai wrote...
darknoon5 wrote...
Hate to say it, but you do sound pretty butthurt.
On the contrary, if Bioware want to lose a portion of their fan base that hates any kind of change, labelling it "dumbed down," and therefore insulting the people who like it, I don't see that as a bad thing. I can't ever remember you bringing up more then a handful of decent points in all your long lists of complaints, you always repeat the same tired, rebutted points, and usually if anybody is bothered to argue with you, well you usually lose the argument.
And there's a difference between good C&C (admiralcheez, for example) and bad C&C.
Most of the hate I see isn't against 'any kind of change', it's against the 'dumbing down' portion of things. There's pretty much no way to say DA2 wasn't dumbed down massively from DA:O for example, or that ME2 wasn't just ME-lite. I conceed both did have better play in some areas (combat more or less for both), but the RPG elements they ripped out were worth much, much more to longterm BioWare fans than fancy shootin'.
I applaud the company for trying to reach out to new fans for sure. More people playing the game is almost always going to be better in the long-term. But killing off your supporters for short-term 'CoD monies' isn't going to do much for the company image. The sales of DA2 should pretty much show that >.>
There's bound to be a way to pacifiy and reach out to both old and new fans, it's just a shame they have yet to find it (so it seems).
Modifié par darknoon5, 15 octobre 2011 - 10:10 .
What, you think the only people who enjoy multiplayer are like this?Fiery Phoenix wrote...
Much as it may hurt me to admit it, but I very much agree with this particular statement.Terror_K wrote...
[...]They're pandering to a group of people who will leave their games behind without so much as a thought and will forget Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age in a few years time when they're blasting away at Call of Duty: Modern ****fare 7, Halo 6 or Assassin's Creed: Persistent Connections, etc.
The basic fact is, BioWare is turning their backs on their hardcore,
longtime fans who really are fans in favour of a group of people who may
buy their games, but probably just as another thing between the next
Halo, Gears or CoD title or whatever other AAA game they like, and then
just trade it in at their local EB Games/Gamestop for that next big game
and think little else of it.
Modifié par darknoon5, 15 octobre 2011 - 10:19 .
Guest_luk4s3d_*
darknoon5 wrote...
What, you think the only people who enjoy multiplayer are like this?Fiery Phoenix wrote...
Much as it may hurt me to admit it, but I very much agree with this particular statement.Terror_K wrote...
[...]They're pandering to a group of people who will leave their games behind without so much as a thought and will forget Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age in a few years time when they're blasting away at Call of Duty: Modern ****fare 7, Halo 6 or Assassin's Creed: Persistent Connections, etc.
Lol, I can't take you seriously at all. There are a bunch of douches who play MP games, but also a bunch of douches (coughmostofbsncough) who play SP games. Plenty of people who love Half-life 2 also love team fortress 2.
Were Bioware pandering when they added a MP component to Baldurs' gate? Of course not, but now MP is the big thing, if Bioware even thinks of adding it, they're trying to make all their games CoD carbon copies. Right.
Also, dear elitist terror.The basic fact is, BioWare is turning their backs on their hardcore,
longtime fans who really are fans in favour of a group of people who may
buy their games, but probably just as another thing between the next
Halo, Gears or CoD title or whatever other AAA game they like, and then
just trade it in at their local EB Games/Gamestop for that next big game
and think little else of it.
Yeah, which is why they've added back some RPG elements (when appropriate) to ME3, like fans demanded. Oh, and why they've added s/s romances, like fans demanded. Hey, tbh some fans even demanded co-op. Your problem, terror, is you think you, and anybody who shares your views, are "hardcore fans." I love, or at least enjoy to some degree (coughDA2) nearly every game Bioware has made, including their non-RPG (gasp!) ventures. I appreciate Bioware for what they are. You appreciate them for what you want them do be, and can't accept why they aren't so.
I think of myself as a hardcore, longtime Bioware fan, and I don't feel like Bioware is turning its back on me. Don't group me, and other long time fans, with you, because its fine for you to feel betrayed, and yeah, some "hardcore" Bioware fans probably do feel betrayed, but plenty more don't.
What is so bad about co-op?luk4s3d wrote...
darknoon5 wrote...
What, you think the only people who enjoy multiplayer are like this?Fiery Phoenix wrote...
Much as it may hurt me to admit it, but I very much agree with this particular statement.Terror_K wrote...
[...]They're pandering to a group of people who will leave their games behind without so much as a thought and will forget Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age in a few years time when they're blasting away at Call of Duty: Modern ****fare 7, Halo 6 or Assassin's Creed: Persistent Connections, etc.
Lol, I can't take you seriously at all. There are a bunch of douches who play MP games, but also a bunch of douches (coughmostofbsncough) who play SP games. Plenty of people who love Half-life 2 also love team fortress 2.
Were Bioware pandering when they added a MP component to Baldurs' gate? Of course not, but now MP is the big thing, if Bioware even thinks of adding it, they're trying to make all their games CoD carbon copies. Right.
Also, dear elitist terror.The basic fact is, BioWare is turning their backs on their hardcore,
longtime fans who really are fans in favour of a group of people who may
buy their games, but probably just as another thing between the next
Halo, Gears or CoD title or whatever other AAA game they like, and then
just trade it in at their local EB Games/Gamestop for that next big game
and think little else of it.
Yeah, which is why they've added back some RPG elements (when appropriate) to ME3, like fans demanded. Oh, and why they've added s/s romances, like fans demanded. Hey, tbh some fans even demanded co-op. Your problem, terror, is you think you, and anybody who shares your views, are "hardcore fans." I love, or at least enjoy to some degree (coughDA2) nearly every game Bioware has made, including their non-RPG (gasp!) ventures. I appreciate Bioware for what they are. You appreciate them for what you want them do be, and can't accept why they aren't so.
I think of myself as a hardcore, longtime Bioware fan, and I don't feel like Bioware is turning its back on me. Don't group me, and other long time fans, with you, because its fine for you to feel betrayed, and yeah, some "hardcore" Bioware fans probably do feel betrayed, but plenty more don't.
Well arent you lucky, if they added something you werre clearly against you wouyld be the one raging!
It's just luck that you're not severely dissapointed, dont get all high and mighty becuase you dont mind co-op.
Watch this space, when ME3 gets released there's gonna be severe fanrage cause it's crap, mark my words!
Probably. Many more may end up becoming fans of theFiery Phoenix wrote...
That's not at all what I meant,
Darkoon. I just happen to agree with Terror in that the people BioWare
seems to be going for lately will more than likely forget Mass Effect
and Dragon Age a few years (or even months) after their first
playthrough.
Shepard the Leper wrote...
It's funny how some people consider "dumbing down" and "streamlining" to be a horrible thing.
Ever heard of a bloke called Darwin? Ever looked at how Mother Nature handles design? To be clear, doing more with less is the pinacle of design, and that's what BW did with ME2 - the player has less weapons and abilities, but they provide more flexiblity in gameplay.
You concede ME2 might have better (combat) gameplay, but somehow RPG elements have been lost? Like what? Is the Mako a RPG element? Or the horrible inventory system maybe? I dunno, please explain.
BTW, ME's gameplay goal is to combine RPG elements with shooter gameplay. If you hate shooting, why play ME?
kumquats wrote...
In the end of the day, Dragon Age will be just another Fantasy game.
But Sci-Fi RPGs? They are rare, but very well done.
Even a completly buggy game like Vampire: The Masquerade, will always be more appealing to me, than another game with Dwarfs and Elves.
It feels to me, like the Fantasy genre is stuck in a place and they are afraid to move, because the community is so resistent to change. Or maybe even the Devs are afraid of change, I don't know...
Should a good RPG forever be about Dungeons and Dragons? I hope not!
I hope there will be more people who join ME and leave DA behind, because the genre needs a breath of fresh air.
darknoon5 wrote...
Don't like a feature? Don't use it, lol.
But you've clearly already played ME3, so I'll take your word it's bad because it has co-op.
Fiery Phoenix wrote...
Probably. Many more may end up becoming fans of the series.
Some good posters here started with ME2.
Terror, do you know the problem with your post?Terror_K wrote...
Shepard the Leper wrote...
It's funny how some people consider "dumbing down" and "streamlining" to be a horrible thing.
Uh... dumbing down is a bad thing. Streamlining isn't, but ME2 didn't really streamline for the most part, hence the term "dumbing down" instead. Dumbing down is essentially taking the process of streamlining too far, and/or simply removing things to pander and make it too accessible at the cost of several factors. Had ME2 actually streamlined then I wouldn't have as much of an issue with it.Ever heard of a bloke called Darwin? Ever looked at how Mother Nature handles design? To be clear, doing more with less is the pinacle of design, and that's what BW did with ME2 - the player has less weapons and abilities, but they provide more flexiblity in gameplay.
You concede ME2 might have better (combat) gameplay, but somehow RPG elements have been lost? Like what? Is the Mako a RPG element? Or the horrible inventory system maybe? I dunno, please explain.
BTW, ME's gameplay goal is to combine RPG elements with shooter gameplay. If you hate shooting, why play ME?
ME2 is nowhere near the pinnacle of design. It's far too simplified to be considered as such. ME2's main issue is that it took some basic concepts that could have been good, but took them far too far. The game went from clunky and too complex to so cut, culled, automated and simplified that there's a complete lack of any complexity or depth at all. Sure, ME1's inventory was a pain, but I'd rather have an inventory that was clunky and let me play around with stuff than one that does all the work for me and treats me like a child. I'd rather have a tech forced on me in some fashion to accomplish goals like hacking and decryption than have it plattered to me through mini-games anybody can do, and I'd rather have XP per kill that has meaning and context than a meaningless, arbitrary number that's just thrown at me and is apparently my XP. I'd rather have armour that actually acts like armour than some cosmetic pieces that through mods have been proven to not protect the player at all from damage, and I'd rather have a few samey planets that feel open and real than some small, linear paths that provide no real exploration at all. I'd rather have a game with companions that don't look quite so unique but make sense than a bunch of spandex, high-heel and skin-exposing skanks running around in chlorine gas, dangerous planets and on The Migrant Fleet. I'd rather have a good selection of items that are somewhat samey with some stats and randomness to them than a small handful of weapons always located in the same place that can't be altered and customised. I'd rather have actual biotic amps and omni-tools as items than just a linear upgrade system determining their effectiveness, and I'd rather have some trade-offs and choices overall than a system where I can just God-mod everything to the max with no real thought or effort.
Sure, ME1's inventory was a pain, but I'd rather have an inventory that
was clunky and let me play around with stuff than one that does all the
work for me and treats me like a child. I'd rather have a tech forced on
me in some fashion to accomplish goals like hacking and decryption than
have it plattered to me through mini-games anybody can do, and I'd
rather have XP per kill that has meaning and context than a meaningless,
arbitrary number that's just thrown at me and is apparently my XP. I'd
rather have armour that actually acts like armour than some
cosmetic pieces that through mods have been proven to not protect the
player at all from damage, and I'd rather have a few samey planets that
feel open and real than some small, linear paths that provide no real
exploration at all. I'd rather have a game with companions that don't
look quite so unique but make sense than a bunch of spandex, high-heel
and skin-exposing skanks running around in chlorine gas, dangerous
planets and on The Migrant Fleet. I'd rather have a good selection of
items that are somewhat samey with some stats and randomness to them
than a small handful of weapons always located in the same place that
can't be altered and customised. I'd rather have actual biotic amps and
omni-tools as items than just a linear upgrade system determining their
effectiveness, and I'd rather have some trade-offs and choices overall
than a system where I can just God-mod everything to the max with no
real thought or effort.