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Bioware: Are they gaining more fans than they are losing?


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#351
Iakus

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LiveLoveThaneKrios wrote...
Ah..some people are going to miss out on the awesomeness I swear. :P



I don't play games for awesomenes.  I play games for epicness.;)

#352
Il Divo

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iakus wrote...

LiveLoveThaneKrios wrote...
Ah..some people are going to miss out on the awesomeness I swear. :P



I don't play games for awesomenes.  I play games for epicness.;)


Quote-worthy.

#353
Heather Cline

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I personally think that Bioware is losing more of their fanbase than they are gathering new people. Many of their core fanbase came on during KoTOR and Jade Empire. They gathered more core people with ME1 which was an awesome game. They lost people due to DA2's problems and now ME3 is alienating even more of their core crowd.

I believe that they are losing more instead of getting more. Many casual gamers don't play rpg's or sci-fi adventure rpg's. In fact most casual gamers play platformer games like Mario for example. Also many of the core rpg gamers don't like or want MMO features in their single player games. Look at how far the Fable franchise has fallen and how many core gamers they've lost due to the inclusion of multi-player aspects along with streamlining their game. It's hurt them more than anything.

Stream lining is not a good thing when it hurts a company more than anything else. Also including mmo features like multi-player hurts a game series and a company when they aren't really known for it. I know Bioware had co-op games back with NWN and the Baldur's Gate series. But it's been over a decade since those games came out and they haven't touched anything with multi-player and MMO in all that time. So this move will hurt them more than they realize.

My two cents.

#354
Travie

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Oh, and we are not losing fans. We've been steadily increasing our community for years now. Image IPB




Image IPB


Everyone knows that DA2 tanked, kinda hard to hide that now...

Although if you're talking about the ME community, I'll buy that.

#355
Terror_K

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I have to say, BioWare may be gaining more buyers, but I'm not so sure about gaining more fans than they are losing. These aren't the same thing. Many fans are leaving, largely due to DA2 and other factors related to BioWare's attempts to branch out, etc. The basic fact is, BioWare is turning their backs on their hardcore, longtime fans who really are fans in favour of a group of people who may buy their games, but probably just as another thing between the next Halo, Gears or CoD title or whatever other AAA game they like, and then just trade it in at their local EB Games/Gamestop for that next big game and think little else of it. They're pandering to a group of people who will leave their games behind without so much as a thought and will forget Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age in a few years time when they're blasting away at Call of Duty: Modern ****fare 7, Halo 6 or Assassin's Creed: Persistent Connections, etc.

#356
AntiChri5

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I have no problem with BioWare losing the whiniest portion of it's fanbase.

#357
Terror_K

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AntiChri5 wrote...

I have no problem with BioWare losing the whiniest portion of it's fanbase.


If BioWare want to just have a group of people on their forums who do little more than use inane terms like "butthurt" and "haters gonna hate" while they post silly photoshopped images of people with sunglasses with "deal with it" on it and dismiss every piece of criticism with either the former or links to various tropes while they spew labels like "elitist" and "whiners" at people who bring up good arguments because they seem incapable of actually producing anything with any depth or insight themselves, they're certainly going about it the right way. :whistle:

#358
darknoon5

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Terror_K wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

I have no problem with BioWare losing the whiniest portion of it's fanbase.


If BioWare want to just have a group of people on their forums who do little more than use inane terms like "butthurt" and "haters gonna hate" while they post silly photoshopped images of people with sunglasses with "deal with it" on it and dismiss every piece of criticism with either the former or links to various tropes while they spew labels like "elitist" and "whiners" at people who bring up good arguments because they seem incapable of actually producing anything with any depth or insight themselves, they're certainly going about it the right way. :whistle:

Hate to say it, but you do sound pretty butthurt.:D

On the contrary, if Bioware want to lose a portion of their fan base that hates any kind of change, labelling it "dumbed down," and therefore insulting the people who like it, I don't see that as a bad thing. I can't ever remember you bringing up more then a handful of decent points in all your long lists of complaints, you always repeat the same tired, rebutted points, and usually if anybody is bothered to argue with you, well you usually lose the argument.

And there's a difference between good C&C (admiralcheez, for example) and bad C&C.

Modifié par darknoon5, 15 octobre 2011 - 09:10 .


#359
Fiery Phoenix

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Terror_K wrote...

[...]They're pandering to a group of people who will leave their games behind without so much as a thought and will forget Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age in a few years time when they're blasting away at Call of Duty: Modern ****fare 7, Halo 6 or Assassin's Creed: Persistent Connections, etc.

Much as it may hurt me to admit it, but I very much agree with this particular statement.

#360
Mister Mida

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Terror_K wrote...

[...]They're pandering to a group of people who will leave their games behind without so much as a thought and will forget Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age in a few years time when they're blasting away at Call of Duty: Modern ****fare 7, Halo 6 or Assassin's Creed: Persistent Connections, etc.

I think you should drop the illusion that Bioware is interested in fans and not buyers. Fans are useless if they don't buy your products. Bioware wants to sell. To whom is irrelevant. They're a business after all.

Also, as someone who's usually on your side, I'm kinda disappointed in you putting AC in the midst of series like CoD, because IMO AC so far has done a lot better of a job than CoD or Halo have done, certainly on the story department.

#361
Azjurai

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darknoon5 wrote...

Hate to say it, but you do sound pretty butthurt.:D

On the contrary, if Bioware want to lose a portion of their fan base that hates any kind of change, labelling it "dumbed down," and therefore insulting the people who like it, I don't see that as a bad thing. I can't ever remember you bringing up more then a handful of decent points in all your long lists of complaints, you always repeat the same tired, rebutted points, and usually if anybody is bothered to argue with you, well you usually lose the argument.

And there's a difference between good C&C (admiralcheez, for example) and bad C&C.


Most of the hate I see isn't against 'any kind of change', it's against the 'dumbing down' portion of things. There's pretty much no way to say DA2 wasn't dumbed down massively from DA:O for example, or that ME2 wasn't just ME-lite. I conceed both did have better play in some areas (combat more or less for both), but the RPG elements they ripped out were worth much, much more to longterm BioWare fans than fancy shootin'.

I applaud the company for trying to reach out to new fans for sure. More people playing the game is almost always going to be better in the long-term. But killing off your supporters for short-term 'CoD monies' isn't going to do much for the company image. The sales of DA2 should pretty much show that >.>

There's bound to be a way to pacifiy and reach out to both old and new fans, it's just a shame they have yet to find it (so it seems).

#362
luzburg

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i don realy care, i just hope and is pretty shure that me3 is epic
still i dont care if the rpg, cover, is JUUUUUST right
and pepole shuld read all the details about the multiplayer before crying
i didnt want multiplayer in my gut wrenched when i read "mass effect 3 multiplayer comfirmed"
when i read the details i was cuite happy

#363
alex90c

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Azjurai wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Hate to say it, but you do sound pretty butthurt.:D

On the contrary, if Bioware want to lose a portion of their fan base that hates any kind of change, labelling it "dumbed down," and therefore insulting the people who like it, I don't see that as a bad thing. I can't ever remember you bringing up more then a handful of decent points in all your long lists of complaints, you always repeat the same tired, rebutted points, and usually if anybody is bothered to argue with you, well you usually lose the argument.

And there's a difference between good C&C (admiralcheez, for example) and bad C&C.


Most of the hate I see isn't against 'any kind of change', it's against the 'dumbing down' portion of things. There's pretty much no way to say DA2 wasn't dumbed down massively from DA:O for example, or that ME2 wasn't just ME-lite. I conceed both did have better play in some areas (combat more or less for both), but the RPG elements they ripped out were worth much, much more to longterm BioWare fans than fancy shootin'.

I applaud the company for trying to reach out to new fans for sure. More people playing the game is almost always going to be better in the long-term. But killing off your supporters for short-term 'CoD monies' isn't going to do much for the company image. The sales of DA2 should pretty much show that >.>

There's bound to be a way to pacifiy and reach out to both old and new fans, it's just a shame they have yet to find it (so it seems).


I'd love to know what RPG elements ME2 ripped out in comparison to ME1.

#364
Shepard the Leper

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Azjurai wrote...

Most of the hate I see isn't against 'any kind of change', it's against the 'dumbing down' portion of things. There's pretty much no way to say DA2 wasn't dumbed down massively from DA:O for example, or that ME2 wasn't just ME-lite. I conceed both did have better play in some areas (combat more or less for both), but the RPG elements they ripped out were worth much, much more to longterm BioWare fans than fancy shootin'.


It's funny how some people consider "dumbing down" and "streamlining" to be a horrible thing. Ever heard of a bloke called Darwin? Ever looked at how Mother Nature handles design? To be clear, doing more with less is the pinacle of design, and that's what BW did with ME2 - the player has less weapons and abilities, but they provide more flexiblity in gameplay.

You concede ME2 might have better (combat) gameplay, but somehow RPG elements have been lost? Like what? Is the Mako a RPG element? Or the horrible inventory system maybe? I dunno, please explain.

BTW, ME's gameplay goal is to combine RPG elements with shooter gameplay. If you hate shooting, why play ME? 

I applaud the company for trying to reach out to new fans for sure. More people playing the game is almost always going to be better in the long-term. But killing off your supporters for short-term 'CoD monies' isn't going to do much for the company image. The sales of DA2 should pretty much show that >.>

There's bound to be a way to pacifiy and reach out to both old and new fans, it's just a shame they have yet to find it (so it seems).


Uh, right. But how can BW find a balance when the addition of shooting elements (which are at the heart of ME's combat-gameplay system) is considered CoD blasfemy by the so-called "hardcore fanbase"?

#365
darknoon5

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Azjurai wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Hate to say it, but you do sound pretty butthurt.:D

On the contrary, if Bioware want to lose a portion of their fan base that hates any kind of change, labelling it "dumbed down," and therefore insulting the people who like it, I don't see that as a bad thing. I can't ever remember you bringing up more then a handful of decent points in all your long lists of complaints, you always repeat the same tired, rebutted points, and usually if anybody is bothered to argue with you, well you usually lose the argument.

And there's a difference between good C&C (admiralcheez, for example) and bad C&C.


Most of the hate I see isn't against 'any kind of change', it's against the 'dumbing down' portion of things. There's pretty much no way to say DA2 wasn't dumbed down massively from DA:O for example, or that ME2 wasn't just ME-lite. I conceed both did have better play in some areas (combat more or less for both), but the RPG elements they ripped out were worth much, much more to longterm BioWare fans than fancy shootin'.

I applaud the company for trying to reach out to new fans for sure. More people playing the game is almost always going to be better in the long-term. But killing off your supporters for short-term 'CoD monies' isn't going to do much for the company image. The sales of DA2 should pretty much show that >.>

There's bound to be a way to pacifiy and reach out to both old and new fans, it's just a shame they have yet to find it (so it seems).

"Dumbing down" is a silly phrase...do you think it required more intelligence to play ME1 than ME2? DA2 is also a poor example, as it had, what, a year's development time? Plus it's a totally seperate team to the ME team. ME2 is a sequel done right, DA2 is a sequel done wrong. (though DA2 had the potential to be better, and was in a few ways)

Also RPG elements weren't "ripped out." Most were still there, just (generally) bettered and more suitied to a game with shooter, real-time combat.

A game with shooter combat needs a few guns that have different uses depending on playstyle, not hundreds of redundant weapons. A game with shooter combat should have your ability to kill enemies defined on your ability, not on how many skill points you throw at it.

ME2 has everything I care about in an RPG. Choices in dialouge and story, character customziation, character interaction, different weapons and armour, side-quests etc. I don't know about you, but I don't get all excited when I see an inventory screen. (paticularly ME1's)

The only thing I can conceed ME1 did slightly better was exploration and sense of scale, and I say slightly because neither of them were done that well...the planets were pretty much all reskins with boring fetch side quests, and the sense of scale was largely due to stuff like elevators, which will be in ME3. (that said though, some of the ME1 planets have stunning skylines)

Modifié par darknoon5, 15 octobre 2011 - 10:10 .


#366
kumquats

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In the end of the day, Dragon Age will be just another Fantasy game.
But Sci-Fi RPGs? They are rare, but very well done.

Even a completly buggy game like Vampire: The Masquerade, will always be more appealing to me, than another game with Dwarfs and Elves.
It feels to me, like the Fantasy genre is stuck in a place and they are afraid to move, because the community is so resistent to change. Or maybe even the Devs are afraid of change, I don't know...

Should a good RPG forever be about Dungeons and Dragons? I hope not!
I hope there will be more people who join ME and leave DA behind, because the genre needs a breath of fresh air.

#367
darknoon5

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Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

[...]They're pandering to a group of people who will leave their games behind without so much as a thought and will forget Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age in a few years time when they're blasting away at Call of Duty: Modern ****fare 7, Halo 6 or Assassin's Creed: Persistent Connections, etc.

Much as it may hurt me to admit it, but I very much agree with this particular statement.

What, you think the only people who enjoy multiplayer are like this?

Lol, I can't take you seriously at all. There are a bunch of douches who play MP games, but also a bunch of douches (coughmostofbsncough) who play SP games. Plenty of people who love Half-life 2 also love team fortress 2.

Were Bioware pandering when they added a MP component to Baldurs' gate? Of course not, but now MP is the big thing, if Bioware even thinks of adding it, they're trying to make all their games CoD carbon copies. Right.:huh:

Also, dear elitist terror.

The basic fact is, BioWare is turning their backs on their hardcore,
longtime fans who really are fans in favour of a group of people who may
buy their games, but probably just as another thing between the next
Halo, Gears or CoD title or whatever other AAA game they like, and then
just trade it in at their local EB Games/Gamestop for that next big game
and think little else of it.


Yeah, which is why they've added back some RPG elements (when appropriate) to ME3, like fans demanded. Oh, and why they've added s/s romances, like fans demanded. Hey, tbh some fans even demanded co-op. Your problem, terror, is you think you, and anybody who shares your views, are "hardcore fans." I love, or at least enjoy to some degree (coughDA2) nearly every game Bioware has made, including their non-RPG (gasp!) ventures. I appreciate Bioware for what they are. You appreciate them for what you want them do be, and can't accept why they aren't so.

I think of myself as a hardcore, longtime Bioware fan, and I don't feel like Bioware is turning its back on me. Don't group me, and other long time fans, with you, because its fine for you to feel betrayed, and yeah, some "hardcore" Bioware fans probably do feel betrayed, but plenty more don't.

Modifié par darknoon5, 15 octobre 2011 - 10:19 .


#368
Fiery Phoenix

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That's not at all what I meant, Darkoon. I just happen to agree with Terror in that the people BioWare seems to be going for lately will more than likely forget Mass Effect and Dragon Age a few years (or even months) after their first playthrough.

#369
Guest_luk4s3d_*

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darknoon5 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

[...]They're pandering to a group of people who will leave their games behind without so much as a thought and will forget Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age in a few years time when they're blasting away at Call of Duty: Modern ****fare 7, Halo 6 or Assassin's Creed: Persistent Connections, etc.

Much as it may hurt me to admit it, but I very much agree with this particular statement.

What, you think the only people who enjoy multiplayer are like this?

Lol, I can't take you seriously at all. There are a bunch of douches who play MP games, but also a bunch of douches (coughmostofbsncough) who play SP games. Plenty of people who love Half-life 2 also love team fortress 2.

Were Bioware pandering when they added a MP component to Baldurs' gate? Of course not, but now MP is the big thing, if Bioware even thinks of adding it, they're trying to make all their games CoD carbon copies. Right.:huh:

Also, dear elitist terror.

The basic fact is, BioWare is turning their backs on their hardcore,
longtime fans who really are fans in favour of a group of people who may
buy their games, but probably just as another thing between the next
Halo, Gears or CoD title or whatever other AAA game they like, and then
just trade it in at their local EB Games/Gamestop for that next big game
and think little else of it.


Yeah, which is why they've added back some RPG elements (when appropriate) to ME3, like fans demanded. Oh, and why they've added s/s romances, like fans demanded. Hey, tbh some fans even demanded co-op. Your problem, terror, is you think you, and anybody who shares your views, are "hardcore fans." I love, or at least enjoy to some degree (coughDA2) nearly every game Bioware has made, including their non-RPG (gasp!) ventures. I appreciate Bioware for what they are. You appreciate them for what you want them do be, and can't accept why they aren't so.

I think of myself as a hardcore, longtime Bioware fan, and I don't feel like Bioware is turning its back on me. Don't group me, and other long time fans, with you, because its fine for you to feel betrayed, and yeah, some "hardcore" Bioware fans probably do feel betrayed, but plenty more don't.




Well arent you lucky, if they added something you werre clearly against you wouyld be the one raging!

It's just luck that you're not severely dissapointed, dont get all high and mighty becuase you dont mind co-op.

Watch this space, when ME3 gets released there's gonna be severe fanrage cause it's crap, mark my words!

#370
darknoon5

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luk4s3d wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

[...]They're pandering to a group of people who will leave their games behind without so much as a thought and will forget Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age in a few years time when they're blasting away at Call of Duty: Modern ****fare 7, Halo 6 or Assassin's Creed: Persistent Connections, etc.

Much as it may hurt me to admit it, but I very much agree with this particular statement.

What, you think the only people who enjoy multiplayer are like this?

Lol, I can't take you seriously at all. There are a bunch of douches who play MP games, but also a bunch of douches (coughmostofbsncough) who play SP games. Plenty of people who love Half-life 2 also love team fortress 2.

Were Bioware pandering when they added a MP component to Baldurs' gate? Of course not, but now MP is the big thing, if Bioware even thinks of adding it, they're trying to make all their games CoD carbon copies. Right.:huh:

Also, dear elitist terror.

The basic fact is, BioWare is turning their backs on their hardcore,
longtime fans who really are fans in favour of a group of people who may
buy their games, but probably just as another thing between the next
Halo, Gears or CoD title or whatever other AAA game they like, and then
just trade it in at their local EB Games/Gamestop for that next big game
and think little else of it.


Yeah, which is why they've added back some RPG elements (when appropriate) to ME3, like fans demanded. Oh, and why they've added s/s romances, like fans demanded. Hey, tbh some fans even demanded co-op. Your problem, terror, is you think you, and anybody who shares your views, are "hardcore fans." I love, or at least enjoy to some degree (coughDA2) nearly every game Bioware has made, including their non-RPG (gasp!) ventures. I appreciate Bioware for what they are. You appreciate them for what you want them do be, and can't accept why they aren't so.

I think of myself as a hardcore, longtime Bioware fan, and I don't feel like Bioware is turning its back on me. Don't group me, and other long time fans, with you, because its fine for you to feel betrayed, and yeah, some "hardcore" Bioware fans probably do feel betrayed, but plenty more don't.




Well arent you lucky, if they added something you werre clearly against you wouyld be the one raging!

It's just luck that you're not severely dissapointed, dont get all high and mighty becuase you dont mind co-op.

Watch this space, when ME3 gets released there's gonna be severe fanrage cause it's crap, mark my words!

What is so bad about co-op?

Don't like a feature? Don't use it, lol.

But you've clearly already played ME3, so I'll take your word it's bad because it has co-op.

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

That's not at all what I meant,
Darkoon. I just happen to agree with Terror in that the people BioWare
seems to be going for lately will more than likely forget Mass Effect
and Dragon Age a few years (or even months) after their first
playthrough.

Probably. Many more may end up becoming fans of the
series.

Some good posters here started with ME2.

#371
Terror_K

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Shepard the Leper wrote...

It's funny how some people consider "dumbing down" and "streamlining" to be a horrible thing.


Uh... dumbing down is a bad thing. Streamlining isn't, but ME2 didn't really streamline for the most part, hence the term "dumbing down" instead. Dumbing down is essentially taking the process of streamlining too far, and/or simply removing things to pander and make it too accessible at the cost of several factors. Had ME2 actually streamlined then I wouldn't have as much of an issue with it.

Ever heard of a bloke called Darwin? Ever looked at how Mother Nature handles design? To be clear, doing more with less is the pinacle of design, and that's what BW did with ME2 - the player has less weapons and abilities, but they provide more flexiblity in gameplay.

You concede ME2 might have better (combat) gameplay, but somehow RPG elements have been lost? Like what? Is the Mako a RPG element? Or the horrible inventory system maybe? I dunno, please explain.

BTW, ME's gameplay goal is to combine RPG elements with shooter gameplay. If you hate shooting, why play ME?


ME2 is nowhere near the pinnacle of design. It's far too simplified to be considered as such. ME2's main issue is that it took some basic concepts that could have been good, but took them far too far. The game went from clunky and too complex to so cut, culled, automated and simplified that there's a complete lack of any complexity or depth at all. Sure, ME1's inventory was a pain, but I'd rather have an inventory that was clunky and let me play around with stuff than one that does all the work for me and treats me like a child. I'd rather have a tech forced on me in some fashion to accomplish goals like hacking and decryption than have it plattered to me through mini-games anybody can do, and I'd rather have XP per kill that has meaning and context than a meaningless, arbitrary number that's just thrown at me and is apparently my XP. I'd rather have armour that actually acts like armour than some cosmetic pieces that through mods have been proven to not protect the player at all from damage, and I'd rather have a few samey planets that feel open and real than some small, linear paths that provide no real exploration at all. I'd rather have a game with companions that don't look quite so unique but make sense than a bunch of spandex, high-heel and skin-exposing skanks running around in chlorine gas, dangerous planets and on The Migrant Fleet. I'd rather have a good selection of items that are somewhat samey with some stats and randomness to them than a small handful of weapons always located in the same place that can't be altered and customised. I'd rather have actual biotic amps and omni-tools as items than just a linear upgrade system determining their effectiveness, and I'd rather have some trade-offs and choices overall than a system where I can just God-mod everything to the max with no real thought or effort.

#372
H1natachan

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I'd say they're losing more than gaining tbh.
When we invest so much into our characters storyline, then we all feel entitled to start thinking ' Hey this is my game, dont mess with it' .
Despite all the assurances that MP wont detract from the overall SP experience. I remain unconvinced and remain skeptical.
I really do hope that M.E.3 exceeds everyone's expectations ... but i cant help feeling that somehow i'm going to be in for a major disppointment >.<

#373
Bigdoser

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kumquats wrote...

In the end of the day, Dragon Age will be just another Fantasy game.
But Sci-Fi RPGs? They are rare, but very well done.

Even a completly buggy game like Vampire: The Masquerade, will always be more appealing to me, than another game with Dwarfs and Elves.
It feels to me, like the Fantasy genre is stuck in a place and they are afraid to move, because the community is so resistent to change. Or maybe even the Devs are afraid of change, I don't know...

Should a good RPG forever be about Dungeons and Dragons? I hope not!
I hope there will be more people who join ME and leave DA behind, because the genre needs a breath of fresh air.


I personally loved vampire the masquerade bloodlines getting exp from only quests was quite interesting actually imo.

#374
Terror_K

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darknoon5 wrote...

Don't like a feature? Don't use it, lol.

But you've clearly already played ME3, so I'll take your word it's bad because it has co-op.


A lot of people aren't against the multiplayer itself so much as what it means for the single player game, and what it means for BioWare. Especially considering a good majority of this very board were clearly against multiplayer. Some see that resources, time and money spent on this new multi-player stuff could have gone to other aspects of the single-player, especially considering this is supposed to be the big finale and some felt ME2 lacked a bit in polish and certain areas, like import choices, emails, sidequests, exploration, squad interplay, etc. On top of that, some wonder exactly who BioWare is trying to appeal to with this, given that so many were against multiplayer. It seems BioWare is more concerned about branching out these days than appealing to existing fans with moves like this, IMO. That's the main reason DA2 was such a balls-up in many ways.

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Probably. Many more may end up becoming fans of the series.

Some good posters here started with ME2.


And some would say the BSN boards have taken a massive dive in the quality, maturity and personality of the average poster since it moved from the old BioWare boards and became the BSN... around the time ME2 was first starting to get attention funnily enough.

I won't deny that there are posters on here I will disagree with often who I find intelligent people with well thought-out posts and arguments and that I can respect and admire, even if I disagree with them. But they really are far and few between.

#375
darknoon5

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Terror_K wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

It's funny how some people consider "dumbing down" and "streamlining" to be a horrible thing.


Uh... dumbing down is a bad thing. Streamlining isn't, but ME2 didn't really streamline for the most part, hence the term "dumbing down" instead. Dumbing down is essentially taking the process of streamlining too far, and/or simply removing things to pander and make it too accessible at the cost of several factors. Had ME2 actually streamlined then I wouldn't have as much of an issue with it.

Ever heard of a bloke called Darwin? Ever looked at how Mother Nature handles design? To be clear, doing more with less is the pinacle of design, and that's what BW did with ME2 - the player has less weapons and abilities, but they provide more flexiblity in gameplay.

You concede ME2 might have better (combat) gameplay, but somehow RPG elements have been lost? Like what? Is the Mako a RPG element? Or the horrible inventory system maybe? I dunno, please explain.

BTW, ME's gameplay goal is to combine RPG elements with shooter gameplay. If you hate shooting, why play ME?


ME2 is nowhere near the pinnacle of design. It's far too simplified to be considered as such. ME2's main issue is that it took some basic concepts that could have been good, but took them far too far. The game went from clunky and too complex to so cut, culled, automated and simplified that there's a complete lack of any complexity or depth at all. Sure, ME1's inventory was a pain, but I'd rather have an inventory that was clunky and let me play around with stuff than one that does all the work for me and treats me like a child. I'd rather have a tech forced on me in some fashion to accomplish goals like hacking and decryption than have it plattered to me through mini-games anybody can do, and I'd rather have XP per kill that has meaning and context than a meaningless, arbitrary number that's just thrown at me and is apparently my XP. I'd rather have armour that actually acts like armour than some cosmetic pieces that through mods have been proven to not protect the player at all from damage, and I'd rather have a few samey planets that feel open and real than some small, linear paths that provide no real exploration at all. I'd rather have a game with companions that don't look quite so unique but make sense than a bunch of spandex, high-heel and skin-exposing skanks running around in chlorine gas, dangerous planets and on The Migrant Fleet. I'd rather have a good selection of items that are somewhat samey with some stats and randomness to them than a small handful of weapons always located in the same place that can't be altered and customised. I'd rather have actual biotic amps and omni-tools as items than just a linear upgrade system determining their effectiveness, and I'd rather have some trade-offs and choices overall than a system where I can just God-mod everything to the max with no real thought or effort.

Terror, do you know the problem with your post?

Sure, ME1's inventory was a pain, but I'd rather have an inventory that
was clunky and let me play around with stuff than one that does all the
work for me and treats me like a child. I'd rather have a tech forced on
me in some fashion to accomplish goals like hacking and decryption than
have it plattered to me through mini-games anybody can do, and I'd
rather have XP per kill that has meaning and context than a meaningless,
arbitrary number that's just thrown at me and is apparently my XP. I'd
rather have armour that actually acts like armour than some
cosmetic pieces that through mods have been proven to not protect the
player at all from damage, and I'd rather have a few samey planets that
feel open and real than some small, linear paths that provide no real
exploration at all. I'd rather have a game with companions that don't
look quite so unique but make sense than a bunch of spandex, high-heel
and skin-exposing skanks running around in chlorine gas, dangerous
planets and on The Migrant Fleet. I'd rather have a good selection of
items that are somewhat samey with some stats and randomness to them
than a small handful of weapons always located in the same place that
can't be altered and customised. I'd rather have actual biotic amps and
omni-tools as items than just a linear upgrade system determining their
effectiveness, and I'd rather have some trade-offs and choices overall
than a system where I can just God-mod everything to the max with no
real thought or effort.


How many times do you use "I'd rather?"

I'll give you a hint-a lot. Your post is completely subjective. A bunch of opinions. That, with a good bit of ****ing thrown in.