597 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Erszebeth wrote...
What does galactic readiness does ? It tells us that Shepard is not the hero anymore. That all what we did never really mattered. On top of being a very ankward design choice to explain to the crowds, galactic readiness totally undermine the identity of who you're suppose to be. They could have pleased both crowds equally, they choose not to, and this is a very bitter pill to swallow.

It's a way to cheat the system, sure, but it's just like opening up the dev. console: up to the player. So long as there is no content in SP that's exclusive depending on playing MP, MP doesn't alter the flow of SP at all any more than just using the console to give yourself all the resources in ME2 did. 

[Erszebeth]

What I'm saying is that they are undermining Shepard and three games worth of choice by design. It does not matter if you can choose to opt out : it exists, it's included in the game, they thought it was a good idea. It was added as a way to enhance the game for MP players ; they did not care what it would mean for long term fans, they do not care what it does on the intregrity of what they called "shepard's story".

Suddenly Shepard's is not the hero anymore, and it's says a lot about how Bioware is designing games now. The whole thing feels ankward and tacked on.

[In Exile]

Erszebeth wrote...

What I'm saying is that they are undermining Shepard and three games worth of choice by design. It does not matter if you can choose to opt out : it exists, it's included in the game, they thought it was a good idea. It was added as a way to enhance the game for MP players ; they did not care what it would mean for long term fans, they do not care what it does on the intregrity of what they called "shepard's story".

Suddenly Shepard's is not the hero anymore, and it's says a lot about how Bioware is designing games now. The whole thing feels ankward and tacked on.

I just don't see it. I'm not a fan of the MP, but having some extra game mode that increases an internal counter does not strike me as something that compromises SP so long as everything in SP is achievable through SP. 

[upsettingshorts]

It does if you have such an anti-multiplayer agenda that its presence undermines your very mood.

[Erszebeth]

I agree with you that it doesn't compromise a SP playthough if you don't want it to, but it's not my point. My point is that galactic readiness compromise what SP stands for along three games by design.

Coming from Bioware, it feels like a betrayal, if you prefer.

[upsettingshorts]

Erszebeth wrote...

I agree with you that it doesn't compromise a SP playthough if you don't want it to, but it's not my point. My point is that galactic readiness compromise what SP stands for along three games by design.

No it doesn't.  If you agree with him your point becomes pointless.

Erszebeth wrote...

Coming from Bioware, it feels like a betrayal, if you prefer.

What it feels like to players who can't understand what entirely optional means doesn't keep them tossing and turning at night, trust me.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 octobre 2011 - 09:30 .

[Erszebeth]

As I've said from the beginning, MP is a nice feature to add and I have nothing against it. I would probably have tried it if it was only a nice co-op mode. But galactic readiness allows you to nullify the effect of Shepard's choice in three games by design, and I find that profoundly shocking.

Shepard was to be the trilogy hero : it's not the case anymore. His/Her choices were supposed to mean something. It's not the case anymore. Excuse me for thinking that Bioware is throwing the baby with the bath water.

[upsettingshorts]

Erszebeth wrote...

As I've said from the beginning, MP is a nice feature to add and I have nothing against it. I would probably have tried it if it was only a nice co-op mode. But galactic readiness allows you to nullify the effect of Shepard's choice in three games by design, and I find that profoundly shocking.

What other people do with their games is literally no business of yours.  It doesn't change your game at all.  Get over it.

And really?  Profoundly shocking?  Let's save that phrase for, like, war crimes.

Erszebeth wrote...

Shepard was to be the trilogy hero : it's not the case anymore. His/Her choices were supposed to mean something. It's not the case anymore. Excuse me for thinking that Bioware is throwing the baby with the bath water.

I don't excuse nonsense arguments when they're this stubborn.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 octobre 2011 - 09:45 .

[kalle90]

Erszebeth wrote...
Suddenly Shepard's is not the hero anymore, and it's says a lot about how Bioware is designing games now. The whole thing feels ankward and tacked on.

Actually I'd said the opposite. I feel Shepard is made too much into an action superhero who saves or dooms the galaxy by himself. I liked when originally he felt just like a competent yet lucky soldier to be at right place at the right time (to find and access the first beacon). From there he just chased a guy (Saren) who is very much like him yet, just a competent and smart leader, however the toughest battle was the Fleet vs Reaper and Geth.

In 2nd game Shepard is mostly referred to as a great leader who isn't that special otherwise, by TIM himself. He gets helped by the best of the world (though I would question many of the choices) so suicide mission is a bearable idea.

But these ME3 trailers have made it look like Shepard really single handedly wins this war or the world is doomed, which I don't like one bit. Shepard should just be a big supporting character like Gordon is to Batman or Han Solo is to Luke in the grand scheme of things. Sure Shepard might be needed to convince all the races to work together at their best but that's about it, Shepard and his squad shouldn't hog every important kill and become the sole arch-nemesis every single Reaper and their ally wants to kill because they know Shepard is the only threat to them. It just feels stupid that Shepard is some sort of Superman as the only thing the Reapers fear.

Entirely different thing is if these co-op heroes actually become the world saving individuals, which wouldn't be any better. But seeing you can achieve the same in single player I doubt that. So my concern is that Shepard is put too much on the pedestal. It worked for Grey Wardens but please no Archdemons and all of their generals and lietunants for Shepard

[Erszebeth]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't care what people do with their games. It's the shifting in Bioware philosophy that unsettles me. I can see why the galactic readiness can look like an attractive mechanic, I like a good co-op mode sometimes, but I don't see how letting it have such an effect on a game that was so far SP does not lessen the impact of the story and the importance of the main character.

Then again, english is not my first langage, so I can't explain what I think as well as I would like to.

[OMTING52601]

tobynator89 wrote...

tez19 wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

considering that SWTOR as of this moment has more than 600000 preorders registered (and thats just physical copies not digital distribution titles) JUST in the us, I say the amount of hardcore fans are increasing, not declining.

Dragon Age 2 done very well with pre-orders. It is not representative of the final product or how it will be recieved.

no but it is an indication of how many fans bioware has. which is what this topic is about. I'd say the total amount of preorders are hovering somewhere around 2 million.

Actually, according to VG Chartz, try one tenth of that. The number of total pre-order sales for ME3, through 8 Oct 2011 is just over a quarter of a million in the Americas - the only number available for preorder unit sales. And SWTOR is just under 600K(595).

Modifié par OMTING52601, 15 octobre 2011 - 10:37 .

[No Snakes Alive]

Erszebeth wrote...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't care what people do with their games. It's the shifting in Bioware philosophy that unsettles me. I can see why the galactic readiness can look like an attractive mechanic, I like a good co-op mode sometimes, but I don't see how letting it have such an effect on a game that was so far SP does not lessen the impact of the story and the importance of the main character.

Then again, english is not my first langage, so I can't explain what I think as well as I would like to.

I think you're being a little overdramatic. This is a galactic war and they've added the galactic perspective of it as additional, optional content to supplement the core Shepard story. It adds context to that; it doesn't undermine it. Why WOULDN'T Shepard find more success if the troops he rallies in the other corners of the galaxy find their own success? Only now we get to play as them also, if we want. And if you don't want to, then simply don't play the multiplayer. Problem solved.

[upsettingshorts]

Erszebeth wrote...

It's the shifting in Bioware philosophy that unsettles me.

I can see this being one of those nonsense talking points for a long time.  BioWare is always moving in some direction that obviously, its fans who have no idea what their thought process is like knows better than they do, especially when it "shifts" or "moves."

Erszebeth wrote...

I don't see how letting it have such an effect on a game that was so far SP does not lessen the impact of the story and the importance of the main character.

I don't see how it does.  It's only got something to do with the story and the importance of the main character if you want it to.  If you don't, then it doesn't.  

[JeffZero]

OMTING52601 wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

tez19 wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

considering that SWTOR as of this moment has more than 600000 preorders registered (and thats just physical copies not digital distribution titles) JUST in the us, I say the amount of hardcore fans are increasing, not declining.

Dragon Age 2 done very well with pre-orders. It is not representative of the final product or how it will be recieved.

no but it is an indication of how many fans bioware has. which is what this topic is about. I'd say the total amount of preorders are hovering somewhere around 2 million.

Actually, according to VG Chartz, try one tenth of that. The number of total pre-order sales for ME3, through 8 Oct 2011 is just over a quarter of a million in the Americas - the only number available for preorder unit sales. And SWTOR is just under 600K(595).

In the interest of fairness, VG Chartz is seriously one of the least credible sources out there, even if it's often the only one.

[Mclouvins]

Following this logic Shep stopped being the hero in 1 since the alliance fleet actually took down Sovereign. All hail ME's real hero, Admiral Hackett.

[JeffZero]

Mclouvins wrote...

Following this logic Shep stopped being the hero in 1 since the alliance fleet actually took down Sovereign. All hail ME's real hero, Admiral Hackett.

Well... BioWare has confirmed that the Alliance fleet was only capable of doing so because Shepard screwed with Sovereign by eliminating Saren "The Husk Man" Arterius. So it's all relative.

[Apollo Starflare]

I don't get where people are getting that the MP characters are taking the spotlight away from Shep. They are practically his clean up crew, he does all the heavy lifting and Galaxy saving whilst they tidy away the cocktail sausages and paper plates.

Or something.

The fact it can help your GR means very little, do we even know that you can grind MP to max out your bar? I would be very surprised if that was the way it worked, especially given that you apparently need to unlock stuff for MP in the single player first.

It's a bit like saying Luke Skywalker and his merry band of buddies weren't super important because that little team of Rebel commandos following them around shot some Stormtroopers. It's a war, in massive wars heroes get backed up by armies. We get to see what aforementioned army/SF teams are up to when we are not busy playing as the hero. And we only get to see it if we choose to.

There are plenty of potential critcisms that could be levelled at the MP in ME3 but I just cannot picture that one as credible, sorry.

[Mclouvins]

The point being that Shep and crew haven't always been isolated TIM had teams running around in 2 and the co-op is about the people following after Shep, not leap-frogging to steal the show.

[JeffZero]

Same here, Apollo.

[Mclouvins]

Ditto

[billy the squid]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

I don't get where people are getting that the MP characters are taking the spotlight away from Shep. They are practically his clean up crew, he does all the heavy lifting and Galaxy saving whilst they tidy away the cocktail sausages and paper plates.

Or something.

......

 very nice. I agree that they have been rather vague about the multiplayer details, although if the asset and galactic readiness system was a simple fill up bar, my rage would be incandescent. Apart from that it seems fairly well thought out based on what little information we have, so I'm quite content to wait and see what happens as time goes on and we get some more details.

Modifié par billy the squid, 15 octobre 2011 - 11:02 .

[Someone With Mass]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

I don't get where people are getting that the MP characters are taking the spotlight away from Shep. They are practically his clean up crew, he does all the heavy lifting and Galaxy saving whilst they tidy away the cocktail sausages and paper plates.

Or something.

The fact it can help your GR means very little, do we even know that you can grind MP to max out your bar? I would be very surprised if that was the way it worked, especially given that you apparently need to unlock stuff for MP in the single player first.

It's a bit like saying Luke Skywalker and his merry band of buddies weren't super important because that little team of Rebel commandos following them around shot some Stormtroopers. It's a war, in massive wars heroes get backed up by armies. We get to see what aforementioned army/SF teams are up to when we are not busy playing as the hero. And we only get to see it if we choose to.

There are plenty of potential critcisms that could be levelled at the MP in ME3 but I just cannot picture that one as credible, sorry.

Well said.

Plus, they can always try to ignore the co-op if they don't like it. That's what I do with some game modes in most games. 

[OMTING52601]

That may be true depending on situation, but isn't true as a blanket.
VG Chartz has gotten a lot of flack, no quarrel there, but since there is generally no other source for preorder sales... Look Media Create and NPD are businesses whose job is to gather sales intel for companies for pay. IMO, YMMV, trying to use their numbers would be like asking someone/things PR rep to tell me if they like the product they're repping. VG Chartz isn't culling numbers for money, at least not yet. Not to mention the fact that an average joe can't get access to NPD or Media Create numbers in the first place.

[No Snakes Alive]

OMTING52601 wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

tez19 wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

considering that SWTOR as of this moment has more than 600000 preorders registered (and thats just physical copies not digital distribution titles) JUST in the us, I say the amount of hardcore fans are increasing, not declining.

Dragon Age 2 done very well with pre-orders. It is not representative of the final product or how it will be recieved.

no but it is an indication of how many fans bioware has. which is what this topic is about. I'd say the total amount of preorders are hovering somewhere around 2 million.

Actually, according to VG Chartz, try one tenth of that. The number of total pre-order sales for ME3, through 8 Oct 2011 is just over a quarter of a million in the Americas - the only number available for preorder unit sales. And SWTOR is just under 600K(595).

Lol is a quarter of a million preorders a whole half a year before a game's release something to scoff at now? Man Bioware is really in the dumps these days. Sometimes I feel like their only fan left. *Sigh.

[didymos1120]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

What happens in the second game?

Um...well...he builds a new team and, well, he makes them like him a whole lot. And I guess he rescues a few colonists and ends up in the exact same spot as before: The Reapers are coming, nobody believes him, and he still needs to stop them.

OK, let's look at some stuff that happens in ME2:

1. Learns only a small fraction of the geth are allied with the Reapers.  Can completely neutralize that threat, thereby doing a solid for the other 95% of the geth.
2. Saves over half the population of a human colony in the Terminus that was many, many times larger than the entirety of Zhu's Hope.
3. Discovers that the Protheans were converted into Collectors by the Reapers.  Learns just how far beyond indoctrination the Reapers can take things.
4. Learns the essentials of where baby Reapers come from.  Capture or destroys the "uterus" in which the latest member of the Reaper family was developing.
5. Can stop a rogue former STG agent from handing a genophage cure to a tremendously aggressive krogan clan.
6. Prevents a pan-species plague from taking root on Omega.
7. Learns there's something weird going on with stars and dark energy that is most likely not the doing of the geth.
8. "Liberates" the Normandy SR-2 from Cerberus control.
9.  If you choose the right options, can get Legion to tell you what Reapers really are (which information is quite inferrable from other clues dropped over the course of the game, BTW): the enslaved, uploaded minds of an entire species.
10. A good deal of information about the inner workings of Cerberus.

That's just off the top of my head.  And of course, this ignores the DLC.