597 réponses à ce sujet

[Reptillius]

staindgrey wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

Imagine, if you will, if in ME2, you could never save the crew, you always had to give TIM the Collector Base, you never left Omega and nothing you did in ME1 had any meaningful impact on the events of DA2 whatsoever because you never saw any of the characters and you couldn't even play as Shepard.

OK. Thanks. That's all the explanation I'll ever need.

Haha I know it sounds pretty bleak, but essentially that's what happened to people wanting a true DA:O sequel. By adding the "II" at the end of the title, Bioware gave false hopes for the game. Really, it would've benefited by simply being called "Dragon Age: Hawke's Rise" or something. They feel like entirely different games based in the same universe, with tiny cameos made by former characters, nothing more.

The GOOD NEWS though is Bioware's awareness of what they did right and wrong in the game. In their DLC, they've really tried to remedy the biggest complaints by altering enemy combat, locales, etc. as much as they could within the DAII engine. Plus they have some deliciously self-aware dialogue in the game itself, like when characters complain about being in Kirkwall way too much (one of the biggest complaints against the game, period).

But if you enjoy politics, sir, you may actually find a lot to love in DA2. I won't elaborate unless you really want to know, since we shouldn't get too far away from the original topic. Just know that, if you spend 7 years in the same city-state, politics and relations are bound to be a hot topic.

I have to add that some of the problem with DAII and the expectations of the sequel is many forget also what the main character of the DA games is really meant to be.  Which isn't the main character of any one particular game but the game world itself.  It's been more consistant than most other games ever done.  Always building but never actually rewriting anything up to this point.  while we have Hawke's Story... and the Fereldan Wardens story... They are all part of Thedas STory and the Dragon Age story...  Though I do agree that rather than directly calling it DAII they might have done better with a name fitting to hawke... And I hope to see the third one not necessarily marked as game 3 but more with something fitting of it's portion of the Thedas Story. Just like Origions is definitely fitting of the Fereldan Wardens Story.

Modifié par Reptillius, 16 octobre 2011 - 07:04 .

[didymos1120]

Thompson family wrote...


I wonder if Harby talks about the Drell if Thane is with you, the Asari if Samara or Morinth is with you, etc.?

I should clarify. You're right: he only says it if you have someone from that species in the squad, but there's no guarantee that he actually will. The only kinda decent way to do it is to kite him around and let him run off at the mouth for a while, but sometimes he'll just keep saying the "I KNOW YOU FEEL THIS" crap just to spite you (or at least, that's my theory for why it happens).

Modifié par didymos1120, 16 octobre 2011 - 07:14 .

[Arppis]

GodWood wrote...

The ME series is successfully gathering a larger fanbase by streamlining features and appealing to the more casual market.

The DA series is failing in gathering a larger fanbase by completely abandoning the majority of their original fanbase in an attempt to draw in a casual audience that is not interested.

And they basicaly did it wrong. I have few buddies (they have never played Dragon Age games) who I play online with. And told them to try out the Dragon Age 2 demo. They basicaly couldn't fully understand the game mechanics from the demo. I guess they weren't motivated enough either, but it can be pretty far fetched for people who have never played RPG's much and are just tossed in middle of combat.

If they really want to go for casual gamers, they just need to make the combat to have more control over your character, instead of just few moves. And make it simpler I guess... which would be wrong direction to take it in.

Even after saying that, I like Dragon Age 2.

Oh and Mass Effect series is doing it right at the momment.

Modifié par Arppis, 16 octobre 2011 - 07:50 .

[vkt62]

I actually play games for the single player experience and that includes COD, ME, Gears of War, etc. I did play HW 2 and COD multiplayer (not counting skirmish mode) though I tested a few other games for a few hours. So I don't mind if they include multiplayer as long as they don't force it into the campaign or spoil the single player experience for it. I stopped playing the Crysis series because of the way Crysis 2 was made (and the story in Crysis 2) and don't want to stop playing ME because of a disaster like that.

Modifié par vkt62, 16 octobre 2011 - 10:32 .

[tonnactus]

Thompson family wrote...


You're slightly right: 2.94m total sales for DA:O compared to 2.79m for ME2.  That's a 5.4 percent difference. That could very easily be explained by the difference in the genre fanbase for Swords and Sorcery vs. Space Opera.

Lol. Mass Effect on Xbox: 2,37 Mass Effect 2 on Xbox: 2,53

Thats a difference of 6,32 percent. So Mass Effect 2 only sold slighty more then the first game...
And there less complex sword and sorcery games then the first Dragon Age that also could be played in real time on all difficulties without the need to pause.

Modifié par tonnactus, 16 octobre 2011 - 11:10 .

[tonnactus]

Lukertin wrote...

Yes, and yet FO3 & NV function as more evidence against your point and only serve to further Thompson Family's argument. The hardcore rpg genre is slowly dying. It isn't anywhere near dead, no, but it is beginning to die.

According to vg chartz,Fallout New Vegas sold far more copies then Mass Effect 2.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I have been a fan of Bioware since they were tiny news with Baldurs Gate. And they have DEFINATELY gained loads of fans since then.

[GodWood]

Arppis wrote...
If they really want to go for casual gamers, they just need to make the combat to have more control over your character, instead of just few moves. And make it simpler I guess...

If they really want the casual COD audience to play their fantasy game they should amp up the gore, amp up the ****** and make the combat more like God of War.

which would be wrong direction to take it in.

Indeed.

[Varen Spectre]

Well, I would say that Bioware is getting more and more fans and it is unlikely that addition of multiplayer or Kinect support to Mass Effect 3 is going to change it...

Firstly, like some posters before me pointed out, Mass Effect 3 is a big franchise that attracts a lot of attention... However, in terms of investments as well as number of potential customers and profits, Star Wars the Old Republic is most likely much more important project, that will influence the fanbase and maybe even the fate of entire studio much more.

Secondly, I am convinced that the overall reception of Mass Effect 3 will depend on the quality of single player campaign, not on addition or removal of optional features. If SP campaign will be good, the chance that people will forgive Mass Effect 3 even lackluster multiplayer is very high. On the other hand, weak SP campaign could harm Mass Effect 3's reputation even if MP (or kinect features) was really good.

As for the current state of Bioware's fanbase... I think it's pretty amazing...

From growing number of die-hard cosplayers... 



... through countless artists who draw fanarts (and some of them were masterpieces such as Patryk Olejniczak's), make fan songs (e.g. Mirracle of Sound or various rearrangements of themes from Bioware's games) or even fan games (!) or demonstrate their passion through other forms of art, everything suggests that Bioware is slowly raising an impressive pool of dedicated and talented people... 

Also, the overall attitude on majority of forums seems to be mostly positive. Not to mention all the memes that went viral. So I would say that Bioware's fanbase is in pretty good condition and the addition of MP in Mass Effect 3 will hardly change that...

As for the sales numbers, which consist not only from purchases by fans, but also by impartial, casual and newcoming players,... I guess we will have to wait and see, but it seems that even OP admitted, that from business standpoint, trying to attract newcomers seem like a rational idea...    

[tonnactus]

GodWood wrote...
amp up the ****** and make the combat more like God of War.

The ****** of Anya in Gears are actually far smaller then those women in Dragon Age II have...

Modifié par tonnactus, 16 octobre 2011 - 01:11 .

[alex90c]

Dragon Age II's ****** were just ridiculous. Isabela I can handle, but generic old woman NPC #14 having some enormous pair of boobs was just ... gawd.

[In Exile]

onelifecrisis wrote...
An improvement. That's what developers generally try to do with sequels - improve on the first game.

Expecting a B-Movie to stop being a B-Movie isn't at all reasonable.

You know, as for the ME1 plot, I don't remember there being too many plot holes. Saren's trial springs immediately to mind, and the timeline has problems as you mentioned, plus I took issue with Wrex suddenly appearing on the Normandy for no particular reason... and off the top of my head that's all I can remember noticing.

Helmet cams and recorders. Shepard quite literally could have recorded all of ME1.

Not just arresting Fist to use as evidence against Saren. 

There's also the mako actually get back on to the Normandy without it landing. Saren keeping the 2nd beacon on Virmire. The Normady could have just orbital bombed Saren to death on Ilos and galaxy saved. 

Saren not flying in with Sovereign as an archeological find, parking it at the Citadel and allowing Sovereign control that way. He could just give the Council a ''tour'' and suddenly they're indoctrinated, then they're happily opening the Citadel relay for the reapers. 

[GodWood]

tonnactus wrote...

GodWood wrote...
amp up the ****** and make the combat more like God of War.

The ****** of Anya in Gears are actually far smaller then those women in Dragon Age II have...

I didn't mean size.
I meant, you know, actually show them.

If you want casuals to latch onto your game promises of nudity are an instant buy.

[tonnactus]

In Exile wrote...


Saren not flying in with Sovereign as an archeological find,

Not even the council would be so dumb to let dock a such big ship at the citadel without testing and research it(and only shepardt and cerberus are so retarded to test the iff on the normandy)...
Saren wasnt exactly a scientist to could claim it was harmless.

Modifié par tonnactus, 16 octobre 2011 - 02:25 .

[didymos1120]

In Exile wrote...

There's also the mako actually get back on to the Normandy without it landing.

Is this really an issue for people?  Obviously it lands and picks it up. They just didn't animate all that crap, and opted for  the "fade-to-black, cut to next scene" approach used constantly in just about any form of visual media you'd care to name, for as long as said media have existed. 

[Il Divo]

tonnactus wrote...


Not even the council would be so dumb to let dock a such big ship at the citadel without testing and research it(and only shepardt and cerberus are so retarded to test the iff on the normandy)...
Saren wasnt exactly a scientist to could claim it was harmless.

Considering how the Council tends to squeal any time someone mentions "Prothean Artifact", I'm fairly certain they would. And imagine telling them that this particular artifact has predated the Protheans. Indoctrination can be subtle. Anyone willing to test this ship can slowly but effectively find themselves indirectly under its control.

[Thompson family]

tonnactus wrote...

Thompson family wrote...


You're slightly right: 2.94m total sales for DA:O compared to 2.79m for ME2.  That's a 5.4 percent difference. That could very easily be explained by the difference in the genre fanbase for Swords and Sorcery vs. Space Opera.

Lol. Mass Effect on Xbox: 2,37 Mass Effect 2 on Xbox: 2,53

Thats a difference of 6,32 percent. So Mass Effect 2 only sold slighty more then the first game...
And there less complex sword and sorcery games then the first Dragon Age that also could be played in real time on all difficulties without the need to pause.

Nice try at changing the subjet, tonnactus, but the argument you made was that DA:O had better sales than ME2, which was barely true. Now you're comparing ME2 sales with ME1. That's a dodge.

[Gatt9]

staindgrey wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

Imagine, if you will, if in ME2, you could never save the crew, you always had to give TIM the Collector Base, you never left Omega and nothing you did in ME1 had any meaningful impact on the events of DA2 whatsoever because you never saw any of the characters and you couldn't even play as Shepard.

OK. Thanks. That's all the explanation I'll ever need.

Haha I know it sounds pretty bleak, but essentially that's what happened to people wanting a true DA:O sequel. By adding the "II" at the end of the title, Bioware gave false hopes for the game. Really, it would've benefited by simply being called "Dragon Age: Hawke's Rise" or something. They feel like entirely different games based in the same universe, with tiny cameos made by former characters, nothing more.

The GOOD NEWS though is Bioware's awareness of what they did right and wrong in the game. In their DLC, they've really tried to remedy the biggest complaints by altering enemy combat, locales, etc. as much as they could within the DAII engine. Plus they have some deliciously self-aware dialogue in the game itself, like when characters complain about being in Kirkwall way too much (one of the biggest complaints against the game, period).

But if you enjoy politics, sir, you may actually find a lot to love in DA2. I won't elaborate unless you really want to know, since we shouldn't get too far away from the original topic. Just know that, if you spend 7 years in the same city-state, politics and relations are bound to be a hot topic.

i would argue that Bioware didn't learn a thing from what went wrong in DA2.  Primarily because their leads on the project spent weeks blaming the problems on fans who didn't accept the horrid gameplay they passed off as "The future of gaming!",  rather than accept that they made abyssmal design decisions.

In fact,  Gaider was posting weeks after releasing,  talking about removing even more of the dialgoue wheel and replacing it with icons,  despite that being one of people's bigger problems with the game.

Further,  I think your post illustrates exactly that they didn't understand what went wrong.  "Within the confines of the DA2" engine.  It's the DAO engine,  putting it right back to where it outsold ME2 is trivial. 

Finally,  Kirkwall wasn't people's biggest complaints.  The wheel of "Idon'twannahaftaread",  warping enemeies,  enemies exploding at the slightest touch,  people bouncing around like anime characters on meth,  diablo-ish combat,  loss of customization,  those were the biggest complaints.

So I'd venture they learned almost nothing. 

[Khran1505]

BioWare have definately been gaining a huge fanbase over the years. While not the best in the business, they are well known for epic story writing and some very addictive gameplay. They hooked me in with their Knights of the Old Republic at the time and while I wasn't a huge fan of Jade Empire nor did I play any other games of theirs like Baldurs Gate, it was Mass Effect that caught me hook, line and sinker. Simply put, I've seen their fanbase across the internet explode over time, especially with epics like Mass Effect and Dragon Age rolling their way through. Sales have increased and their games have been winning more and more awards with every year passing.

[FataliTensei]

Bottom Line Bioware will gain more fans than they lose because the market they're moving towards is just bigger. The casual gamers and shooter crowds now make up the majority and we see that movement with alot of studios toward them. Some studios haven't changed their games to suit them yet, some. But in the end with the casual gamer market increasing, the money to made there will overpower any loyalty to a previous fanbase, videogames are a way to make money after all, and that's all they ever will be.

It's an infuriating thing to see happening to some of my favorite developers and two of my favorite franchises. But it is what is, there's that those of who like some complexity and depth in their games, our time is pretty much over, I mean we can count on Japan to make something half-decent every 2 or 3 years but for the most part western game developers are going to want to cash in on the bigger demographics, nothing wrong with that per se, for those two demographics it works out, just for the demographic I'm in we get screwed over.

With bioware you had DA:O a classic fantasy game made very well and it sold great, that was years ago though, then we got DA2, which was more of a hack and slash with RPG elements thrown in, it felt more like Diablo than anything else.

Mass Effect 1, for the most part pretty balanced between shooter and RPG genre, with a bit of a leaning towards RPG, there were some clunky mechanics though. Inventory was a bit frustrating sometimes if you let your items pile up, having to pause in game to use powers bothered some people (not me), and alot of people hated planet exploration for some reason. But if those issues had been streamlined, the inventory made more accessable, the combat mechanics were fixed in the PC version of ME to flow much better, not sure how it would have worked on consoles though, but it would have been better than making the gun combat in ME2 like every single other TPS out there and reducing the effectiveness of powers to the point where you can move through the game just find without them. Planet exploration could have been fixed by simply
1. Have there be more to find in an area
2. More interesting environments, I admit there were some planets that were pretty boring, but some had really cool environments, one was about to collide with another planet
3. Make the exploration area a bit smaller, it wouldn't be as good for us who like to explore, but it would be a good compromise

There's alot of things that could have been done differently that weren't, and in ME3 I don't know what we'll get, but it won't be as balanced at ME1 (moreso the PC version than the console one), we are never getting that again. We just need accept it an move on, we can try to voice our concerns on here but we will be beat down by BW Fanboys who believe Bioware can do no wrong, people who prefer shooters and action games and like the dumbing down process because it makes it easier for them to play and newcomers who feel the need to get on here and just post things like "butthurt" and "nerdrage".

In closing a thread like this does nothing, Bioware DOES NOT CARE and the best you can hope for with intelligent discourse on this board is snarky comebacks with no real reasoning, posts that bring in random anecdotes about sock companies and argue against an argument instead of actually arguing a point, and people who just brush you off with some snide comment.

Modifié par FataliTensei, 16 octobre 2011 - 04:50 .

[CptBomBom00]

And on this bombshell is time to end goodbye.

But seriously this is very good post.

[CAPSLOCK FURY]

FataliTensei wrote...

There's alot of things that could have been done differently that weren't, and in ME3 I don't know what we'll get, but it won't be as balanced at ME1 (moreso the PC version than the console one), we are never getting that again. We just need accept it an move on, we can try to voice our concerns on here but we will be beat down by BW Fanboys who believe Bioware can do no wrong, people who prefer shooters and action games and like the dumbing down process because it makes it easier for them to play and newcomers who feel the need to get on here and just post things like "butthurt" and "nerdrage".

In closing a thread like this does nothing, Bioware DOES NOT CARE and the best you can hope for with intelligent discourse on this board is snarky comebacks with no real reasoning, posts that bring in random anecdotes about sock companies and argue against an argument instead of actually arguing a point, and people who just brush you off with some snide comment.

Say whut?

[CroGamer002]

didymos1120 wrote...

Thompson family wrote...


I wonder if Harby talks about the Drell if Thane is with you, the Asari if Samara or Morinth is with you, etc.?

I should clarify. You're right: he only says it if you have someone from that species in the squad, but there's no guarantee that he actually will. The only kinda decent way to do it is to kite him around and let him run off at the mouth for a while, but sometimes he'll just keep saying the "I KNOW YOU FEEL THIS" crap just to spite you (or at least, that's my theory for why it happens).

I think he says that if you use Omni-Gel on only 1 fallen squadmate and he's not already talking nor interupted.

[eternalnightmare13]

 If you knew anything at all about the business world you would know that all businesses always want to grow their market.  The common saying is ''if you're not growing you are dieing'' which means expanding your market.  A lot of people on here represent a very small majority yet vocal group of the market.  But the fact is the days of stand alone solo player games with no dlc no multiplayer are gone.  Some of you clearly don't grasp how the business world works.  

[Jaron Oberyn]

Gatt9 wrote...


In fact,  Gaider was posting weeks after releasing,  talking about removing even more of the dialgoue wheel and replacing it with icons,  despite that being one of people's bigger problems with the game.
  

Are you serious? My biggest complaint from the ME2 and DA2 was the lack of dialogue options, and automatic dialogue. If he's trying to make the move to just icons, why not just go all the way and make it a generic fantasy game without dialogue? Or no RPG elements at all how about that? I'm glad ME3 is going to be my last Bioware game because I just can't stand the fact that they're dumbing down their games to appeal to an audience that only wants CoD. I guess that's so hard to understand huh?

-Polite