597 réponses à ce sujet

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

case in point - Ashley's armor.  I will bet you a box of godiva chocolates that she's getting  "female version of Kaidan's armor"  majorly due to negative fan response

And I can bet Kaidan will get nothing extra in return because we didn't whine ehh...

You want a skimpy skin tight outfit for Kaidan?

[shepskisaac]

Shinian2 wrote...
You want a skimpy skin tight outfit for Kaidan?

It's only fair

[Hathur]

Shinian2 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

case in point - Ashley's armor.  I will bet you a box of godiva chocolates that she's getting  "female version of Kaidan's armor"  majorly due to negative fan response

And I can bet Kaidan will get nothing extra in return because we didn't whine ehh...

You want a skimpy skin tight outfit for Kaidan?

I'd prefer special a cabin on the SR2 for him that was actually an airlock in disguise. <_<

[whywhywhywhy]

Il Divo wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

But that does not mean that for each single person who finds a game too complicated that there isn't two or more who are interested due to this depth and such. A barrier to some is a reason to buy for others. The one thing that could come close but in no way solid proof one way or other is have Bioware since mentioning this MP seen a truly vast increase in pre-orders or a slight decline.

The casual audience is larger than the core audience. That alone works against your claim. It's not about complexity, but ease of entry. If I told you that in order to watch Schindler's List, you needed an in-depth account of World War II, that's going to serve against your attempts at getting a substantial number of people from watching the film. Baldur's Gate 1, while a decent game, didn't really provide anything close to a learning curve for new players, aside from explaining how attributes work, which is just the tip of the iceberg in DnD.

Edit: Compare that even to an RTS, like Warcraft III. There certainly is a learning curve, if you're hoping to be a halfway decent player, but the main game provides a great method to slowly pick up all these tricks, how to organize/use different units, etc. Something like Baldur's Gate didn't really allow for that. You started the game with every stat in place, except multi-classing options.

Your claim is all off the core gamers aren't against adding features that will attract the casual gamer.  Core gamers don't want the addition of casual attracting features at the expense of core game feature and feature improvements.

The fighter genre didn't die off but it has shrunk, why ?  Because it became stagnant, developers release the same thing over and over until people moved on.  That's what kills off games or gaming genres.  A series needs to progress, improve and to reinvent itself while maintaining the aspects of the game that makes it fun and immerssive.


The problem with the ME series is in the sequel the focus of the game is shifting to generally improve one aspect of the game first and foremost.  Combat.  Then dropped other things that could have been easily fixed. 

In short expanding to the casuals doesn't automatically guarentee success.

[shepskisaac]

Hathur wrote...
I'd prefer special a cabin on the SR2 for him that was actually an airlock in disguise. <_<

Not happening. He's the first squaddie Shep's getting in ME3 and obviously one of the most permanent and important ones and the fact he already had his 'you can die' moment, it's almost granted he'll be unkillable in ME3

[Il Divo]

whywhywhywhy wrote...


Your claim is all off the core gamers aren't against adding features that will attract the casual gamer.  Core gamers don't want the addition of casual attracting features at the expense of core game feature and feature improvements.

And that's exaclty what happens in the case of RPGs involving DnD. For a core gamer of an RPG, one of the key aspects is the rule set. However a game, above all else, needs to be accessible. The less accessible its rule set, the more difficult for a casual gamer to become involved. The more complex the rules, the more difficult it is to make that rule set accessible.

Most games literally rely on the convention X button reloads, Y jumps, etc. Games like Baldur's Gate are probably the least accessible available, since they assume that the player either is willing to read the manual or has an intimate understanding of the DnD rules. I pose (yet again) the hypothetical scenario of being required to read a book before watching a film. As a casual movie goer, you probably wouldn't be willing to undertake such an endeavor.

Modifié par Il Divo, 14 octobre 2011 - 01:24 .

[Les_Carver]

No chance BioWare is going to lose more than what they're gonna win with this, lol.

Besides, if losing some of their idiotic fans that whine about every single thing BioWare do, and rage leave this social network, is a win-win deal to the BSN in general.

[JeffZero]

Hathur wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

You know. I've never even heard of X-Com Apocalypse.

I.... wha...... surely ...... You're breakin my heart here.

.... Sure it was a mediocre, buggy, infuriating, poorly conceived piece o......

Ok. Nevermind, I take back my initial outrage.. it's probably best you haven't heard of XCOM Apoc. 

Sounds like you developed a sort of attachment to it nevertheless though. Sorry, I think. XD

To be honest, while gaming has been a very big passion of mine for as long as I can remember, it's been only the past couple of years that I've branched out much into the Western side of things. I was very much content with the Zeldas and the Final Fantasies of the RPG-and-adventure world for a long time until I began to feel like the Final Fantasies and their brethren had really lost their way. Then I finally took up my friends' offer on getting into WRPGs and it's been a fun catch-up ride.

Still love Zelda though.

[jeweledleah]

Hathur wrote...

Shinian2 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

case in point - Ashley's armor.  I will bet you a box of godiva chocolates that she's getting  "female version of Kaidan's armor"  majorly due to negative fan response

And I can bet Kaidan will get nothing extra in return because we didn't whine ehh...

You want a skimpy skin tight outfit for Kaidan?

I'd prefer special a cabin on the SR2 for him that was actually an airlock in disguise. <_<

meh, I no longer care.  you want tokill off a character becasue you have a one strike and you're out rule?  sure.  as long people who want to be friends get to be friends.

but another reason for me to possible wait untill the game goes on saleisthe nagging fear that Icannot shake that Kashley Wilenko is there to stay and Kaidan, his own person is not coming back.

[JeffZero]

jeweledleah wrote...

Hathur wrote...

Shinian2 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

case in point - Ashley's armor.  I will bet you a box of godiva chocolates that she's getting  "female version of Kaidan's armor"  majorly due to negative fan response

And I can bet Kaidan will get nothing extra in return because we didn't whine ehh...

You want a skimpy skin tight outfit for Kaidan?

I'd prefer special a cabin on the SR2 for him that was actually an airlock in disguise. <_<

meh, I no longer care.  you want tokill off a character becasue you have a one strike and you're out rule?  sure.  as long people who want to be friends get to be friends.

but another reason for me to possible wait untill the game goes on saleisthe nagging fear that Icannot shake that Kashley Wilenko is there to stay and Kaidan, his own person is not coming back.

You're worried that the writers will turn the two unique characters into one rather similar character, I take it? Horizon have something to do with it, I suppose? (Just curious.)

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

but another reason for me to possible wait untill the game goes on saleisthe nagging fear that Icannot shake that Kashley Wilenko is there to stay and Kaidan, his own person is not coming back.

Well, they DID promise they'll act differently. I mean, they had to see all the complaining about identical Virmire dialogues. So eh, I'm willing to believe Kashley's dead. BioWare does listen to criticism. Sometimes, their idea of an improvement makes no sense (Fans don't like clunky inventory? Let's throw it out all together!), but it still comes out of the fact they listened to the criticism.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 14 octobre 2011 - 01:33 .

[No Snakes Alive]

Dear whiners,

The multiplayer already looks like a fun and fitting addition. Get over it. To assume the singleplayer will suffer because of this addition would be akin to me assuming you're intelligent because the sentences in your posts are grammatically correct (when the content is so blatantly retarded). Everything we've seen so far looks great, and looks like PROGRESS.

Here's an example of such progress: for all we know, this co-op mode might turn out to be as amazing an addition to this amazing single-player franchise as Brotherhood's amazing multiplayer mode was to the amazing singleplayer franchise Assassin's Creed. Wouldn't that be amazing? I loved the single player aspect of AC:B just like I did with AC II, only I also got the added bonus of what I found to be the single best multiplayer experience I've had on my Xbox 360 to date.

That's a damn good thing when a videogame series progresses like that, and I don't expect Bioware to deliver any less with what I'd consider to be arguably the best IP of this gaming generation. We already have two AI squadmates in the sp mode anyway: how is adding an optional mp mode where our AI squadmates are replaced by real live friends going to suck in any way, shape or form? LOLWUT?

Haters gonna hate, I guess, right?

[jeweledleah]

JeffZero wrote...

You're worried that the writers will turn the two unique characters into one rather similar character, I take it? Horizon have something to do with it, I suppose? (Just curious.)

how did you guess >_>

they are already filling the same role as it is.  the merge actualy started right after virmire, its just that if you romance either one of them, there are still enouhg differences.  (non romance dialogue is identical) differences that pretty much dissapeared in ME2.

and yes, I know writers promiced that theywill not do this again.  but both their original writers are gone.  so its anyone's guess what they are going to end up like in ME3 and tweets about Ashley being more sure of herself now?  (you know the same Ashley that tells Shepard in ME1that she likes herself just the way she is and shedoesn't need people to save her or to take care of her)  yeah...I'm doubtful.

as far as casual and multiplayer debate - that depends on the game.  for isntance - Warhammer online isvery casual friendly and the fact that its a small game = tighter community= everyone knows everyone and there is almost no dealing with littlepunks who think they are tough and know a few curse words.

multiplayer as its described for ME3 so far?  those are missions.  not just short skirmishes - full out missions.  with waves.  and unless you have friends with your exact schedul who feel like playing MP at exact same time as you are? you will end up pugging.  and pugging sucks. 

Modifié par jeweledleah, 14 octobre 2011 - 01:42 .

[onelifecrisis]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Dear whiners,

*ears perk up*

No Snakes Alive wrote...

The multiplayer already looks like a fun and fitting addition...

*asleep now*

[JeffZero]

While I absoultely understand that there are all sorts of casual gamers, and that yours is its own form, leah, I must agree with Rojahar here in the sense that the definition of the term as I've most often experienced firsthand (and most of my friends would say the same, I believe) is the sort that dives into quick-'satisfaction' forms of gaming like a few matches of a competitive or co-op game. Social gaming, as he asserts, is the core of the casual gamer -- but again, there is always going to be a broad definition of the term with ample room for your sort.

To back my assertion, I'll bring up an experience I had while at a Gamestop in Tampa today. There was a mid 20-something there with his wife; she held their baby anxiously, clearly bored out of her skull. The cashier was attempting to upsell various 'hot new games' to him and he explained the following:

"Look man, I'm just a casual gamer now. I got a wife who isn't into games much, I got a kid, I got a full-time job, you know... I'm just casual, I just wanna get into that Call of Duty multiplayer arena or whatever and just go at it with my buddies for a little while. Like, I don't even wanna play the single-player campaign or whatever, I just don't have time for it."

I realize this all sounds very stereotypical, but it is very much what I heard the guy say. Not word for word, obviously, I mean, I didn't intend to recite it later on when I heard it, but yeah. And I hear similar statements from this crowd all the time. Call of Duty single-player campaigns, I've been told, are quite short -- seven or eight hours or something. I mean, damn, coming from someone like me who enjoys every minute of the 80-hour JRPG Xenogears, that's... that's just not worth the price even on clearance. But those guys are getting sporadic, social play where they can just jump in and pound away.

Hell, I hardly even remember why I typed this all up at this point. It isn't even the first time I've typed it, but the second -- my PS3 browser decided not to properly submit it the first time. Whatever point I was originally intending to make, I'll just say this -- there are definitely all kinds of casual gamers but the majority I've personally bumped into are very much that stereotyped 'dudebro' brigade the internet keeps harping about.

Forgiveness in advance for various potential typos. PS3 browser. Terrible thing, I tell ya.

[JeffZero]

Ah, yeah, leah. I do feel like those two are tied at the hip in more ways than one on Horizon. Here's hoping for the best. I love both characters quite a bit and I'd hate to feel like they're both conjoined and less interesting in ME3.

[Sajuro]

IsaacShep wrote...

Hathur wrote...
I'd prefer special a cabin on the SR2 for him that was actually an airlock in disguise. <_<

Not happening. He's the first squaddie Shep's getting in ME3 and obviously one of the most permanent and important ones and the fact he already had his 'you can die' moment, it's almost granted he'll be unkillable in ME3

Then Bioware trolls you by having the VS be the obligatory character who dies in the opening mission to show you how dangerous things are.

[jeweledleah]

dudebro brigade O_O why is this making me giggle

you're right it takes all kinds I've noticed that for me, its very important to be able to stop at a moment's notice. but still be able to come back to the game and finish it without missing anything. I have found that with a very rare exception - its just not possible with multiplayer. especially co-op. its not as bad when you have "Versus with large teams" play though (like aforementioned warhammer).

Modifié par jeweledleah, 14 octobre 2011 - 01:54 .

[KungFuTurtle]

Hathur wrote...
I'd prefer special a cabin on the SR2 for him that was actually an airlock in disguise. <_<

Hell hath no fury like woman scorned, etc. 

[JeffZero]

jeweledleah wrote...

dudebro brigade O_O why is this making me giggle

you're right it takes all kinds I've noticed that for me, its very important to be able to stop at a moment's notice. but still be able to come back to the game and finish it without missing anything. I have found that with a very rare exception - its just not possible with multiplayer. especially co-op. its not as bad when you have "Versus with large teams" play though (like aforementioned warhammer).

Indeed, I've found that I feel the same way. It's funny, I mean, I'll plow through these mega-long (by today's standards... /le sigh) single-player games but I'll do so at my own enforced-by-busy-real-life kind of schedule. So I'll get into conversations with these people online and in the real world about how long some game was that I just replayed and they're like "how did you find the time between college and working? I could never!" And I explain to them that it's not really like that; I might only get 20 minutes in one day or a few hours on a really good day.

And yeah, totally -- on any multiplayer thing I've tried to get into (which is pretty rare) there's usually a sense of urgency and a sort of unwritten (or very loudly-shouted) betrayal from a lot of these people you're trying to play with if you have to bolt on a moment's notice because you got called into work or whatever. Since, you know, they 'need' you to fulfill a certain role on the team. You've got a sniper rifle so you're the sniper. Or you've got healing powers so you're the healer. Or... whatever.

So yes, long and short of it: I definitely get that. I suppose the mass casual "dudebro brigade" fellows out there (and the women too; my friend is one... what are they, dudettesis platoon?) manage to confine all their playtime toward these deathmatches and flag-capturing missions and what-have-you and scrounge up enough free time not to get yelled at by over-the-top teammates.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Casuals are ruining games imo, b/c the best way to profit is to streamline and have less features (to take less time and money) to appeal to those type of gamers, since they are the biggest audience.

I'll just have to learn to live with it b/c I'm not gonna stop buying games.

[N7recruit11207]

they are gaining! i still believe that the five top companies are Ubisoft, Square Enix, Bethesda, EA, and Bioware. mix EA and Bioware together and what do ya get?! one of the most influental RPG that changed the game genre forever