36 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Filament wrote...

The flasks sound like blasts too. Perhaps you could explain how his sound more "gunpowdery." Archers also have arrow bombs, granted they don't shoot 50 of them at once but it's the same idea. (and they do have a separate ability to shoot 50 arrows at once)

The fire bomb in Origins is like a mini burst of flame similar to a small fireball.  Prosper's bombs go boom.   Actually what it reminds me of is the Singularity sound effect.  Pretty sure they might have ripped this off from Mass Effect.

Let's not go into the "archer mage" abilities.  Better to leave that alone.

And he didn't want names, it didn't matter whose they were. He wanted qunari technology. Salit didn't provide those so he was useless.

Making Prosper an idiot.  That's what people are saying.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 octobre 2011 - 06:14 .

[Gervaise]

Thing is that before shooting Salit, it might have been useful to discover:
a) Why he is doing it - what does he hope to gain?
If the information he handed over is so much more useful than either gunpowder or ship plans, how did he get hold of it in the first place? The gunpowder plans are zealously guarded, so anything equally dangerous to the Qunari's plans should also be zealously guarded - only available to a very select and trusted few. So who exactly was Salit?

This is also information that I would have liked to have got out of Tallis after disposing of Duke Prosper. I have mentioned elsewhere that I actually doubt a complete list of all spies throughout Thedas would exist, may be it was a list of just the ones in Orlais, which might still implicate a large number of people. However, given how valuable and dangerous it was to the Qunari cause, surely the most sensible thing for Tallis to do during the fight was just burn it. She is keeping hold of it because she apparently wants to go back and say to the leaders, "look how clever I am, I got this back", which if I understand their philosophy correctly they will respond to with "you were more concerned with yourself than the good of the people - you should have destroyed it at once". All they needed to know is that somehow someone got hold of information that they shouldn't have.

As for Hawke, they still have useful information that Tallis should never have divulged, why those names were significant. That is still something you can work with that you didn't have before - previously I only guessed that the situation in the Kirkwall Alienage might not be unique - now I know it. Whether I am a mage sympathiser or not, I do not want the Qun to take over, so from now on I will be on the look out for anything suspicious and if given the opportunity, introduce some counter measures of my own. I may not take the trouble to inform Celene (she may hear from Cassandra anyway), but I would certainly warn Alistair/Anora and suggest they improve relations still further with their alienage elves, plus perhaps introduce their own sleeper cells in the larger settlements to watch for any signs of suspicious activity.

Duke Prosper's actions were just the standard evil villain with no brains - the chevalier are probably very inbred.

[Sabariel]

What did Prosper shoot Salit with anyway? It looked like Wyvern snot.

[Mykel54]

Filament wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

And he didn't want names, it didn't matter whose they were. He wanted qunari technology. Salit didn't provide those so he was useless.

Making Prosper an idiot.  That's what people are saying.

How is that? It's short-tempered, yes, but what does he lose by killing Salit? Even if he didn't want the names, Salit already gave them up. An ally against Hawke? Perhaps it's arrogant to think his private army and his giant armored wyvern and plethora of explosives are enough to beat four adventurers, but I wouldn't call it idiotic.

What about help in the fight? Prosper already knew that Tallis was a qunari spy, and that Salit wanted to kill her. He could have simply allowed Salit and his Tal-Vahsot to do his thing, and then after the fight is over, he could have asked Salit how that piece of paper was supposed to be useful.

I think it is common sense, if you make a deal to get something of value, and you get a paper with names instead, it is obvious that: 1) you were fooled or 2) there is some explanation to those names. They could be names of Tal-Vashot leaders in certain areas that would help Orlais fight the qunari, or something else. But no, Prosper simply goes all crazy and kill the one person that could help him further his plans. If his deal failed, the empress would have his head anyway, so by killing Salit, Prosper is effectively resigning himself to failing his mission.

[Wulfram]

Addai67 wrote...

Yes but those are like flasks, more like molotov cocktails, with very little area of effect. This looked and sounded like gunpowder blasts.

Dwarvish Lyrium based explosives?  Not exactly common on the surface, but he's got loads of money.

[hoorayforicecream]

Gervaise wrote...

Thing is that before shooting Salit, it might have been useful to discover:
a) Why he is doing it - what does he hope to gain?

The immediate answer is probably "all the coin I just paid him for this information." The Duke is pretty normal in caring more about what he was getting than why he was getting it. 

If the information he handed over is so much more useful than either gunpowder or ship plans, how did he get hold of it in the first place? The gunpowder plans are zealously guarded, so anything equally dangerous to the Qunari's plans should also be zealously guarded - only available to a very select and trusted few. So who exactly was Salit?

Salit was the one who trained Tallis to be Ben-Hassrath. If you read the codex entry on the Ben-Hassrath, they don't just assassinate people but also re-educate them. It stands to reason that a senior member of the Ben-Hassrath (one entrusted with the selection and training of other Ben-Hassrath) would have access to the list of the Qunari agents in the field (likely because they were, at some point, re-educated), since he may need to send (other) Tallis to kill them at some point.

[Gervaise]

That's my whole point about Salite. To be high ranking enough to have a full list of agents, he must be a fairly seasoned veteran. Why has he suddenly turned against them after so many years of indoctrinating people? Okay, it may be just money or the guarantee of a comfortable new lifestyle but it just seems unlikely. I still maintain that it wouldn't be a Thedas wide list but probably just relating to Orlais. In face if Salite had any sense, even if he did have access to a complete list, he wouldn't hand it over in its entirety in one go, just in case the Orlesians did renage on the deal. It is adviseable to question why someone is doing something. Evidently the Duke hadn't heard about the false Gaatlok plans but Hawke most certainly was aware that the Qunari are quite willing to make a plant of something that appears to be what the person wants but in fact is designed to backfire on them.

Anyway, it was nice having a jaunt out of Kirkwall, the scenery was lovely, finally got to have some fun socialising and laughing at the local nobility, have had the pleasure of seeing Fenris and Anders being reasonably civil (by their standards) and Fenris admitting to Anders "that not all mages are evil but I know of one who is particularly annoying", before showing real touching concern for my Hawke, and even got to fulfill one of my dreams - knocking the stuffing out of an Orlesian Chevalier and then seeing him "fall from grace". All in all MoA was an amusing diversion, if not a particularly heroic one, apart from the rather annoying Qunari assassin that I never hope to see again.

[Wulfram]

Perhaps Salit wasn't motivated solely by money, but by a desire to damage the Qunari?
A Ben-Hassrath should be the most committed, but they'd also be the ones with the most contact with the outside and with heretics, and the ones called on to carry out the worst deeds in the name of the Qun.
It's not unreasonable that one should come to the conclusion that they are an evil that is best destroyed.

[hoorayforicecream]

Gervaise wrote...

That's my whole point about Salite. To be high ranking enough to have a full list of agents, he must be a fairly seasoned veteran. Why has he suddenly turned against them after so many years of indoctrinating people? Okay, it may be just money or the guarantee of a comfortable new lifestyle but it just seems unlikely. I still maintain that it wouldn't be a Thedas wide list but probably just relating to Orlais. In face if Salite had any sense, even if he did have access to a complete list, he wouldn't hand it over in its entirety in one go, just in case the Orlesians did renage on the deal. It is adviseable to question why someone is doing something. Evidently the Duke hadn't heard about the false Gaatlok plans but Hawke most certainly was aware that the Qunari are quite willing to make a plant of something that appears to be what the person wants but in fact is designed to backfire on them.

Nobody on Hawke's side really knows or wants to know. Why would anyone who isn't Tallis care why Salit turned Tal-Vashoth? Duke Prosper only wants the weapon, he doesn't care about Salit's motivation. Tallis might know, but why would Hawke care that Salit decided to betray the Qun?

[Wulfram]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Tallis might know, but why would Hawke care that Salit decided to betray the Qun?

Understanding Salit's motives might help him decide who he was going to side with.  If he had any choice, anyway.