104 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Gabey5 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

when entering enemy territory you first need a BEACHEHAD

that is what earth is

sp?1grammerz

222

More like 'tortured metaphor being draged through the streets.'

[Dean_the_Young]

Ixalmaris wrote...

And just because Shepard? Highly improbable that the Reapers would have emotions of revenge. If the Reapers disable the Relays Shepard can do nothing.

Sense of humor not sensed.

[Someone With Mass]

Keazu wrote...

Who's to say they are only attacking Earth? They're probably on other planets too.

Like Pavalen...

[Gabey5]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

when entering enemy territory you first need a BEACHEHAD

that is what earth is

sp?1grammerz

222

More like 'tortured metaphor being draged through the streets.'

it conveys the point

[GMagnum]

UHHHH CUZ SHEPARD IS ON EARF AND THEY KNOW HES A THREAT? PROLLY JUST TARGETING HIM LOLOL

[Dean_the_Young]

Gabey5 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

when entering enemy territory you first need a BEACHEHAD

that is what earth is

sp?1grammerz

222

More like 'tortured metaphor being draged through the streets.'

it conveys the point

Not really. Besides being utterly misaimed (a beachhead only works when you're on the same continent, let alone same planet), there are literally hundreds of solar systems and worlds between the Alpha Relay and Earth the Reapers could use as a staging point. They don't need Earth for that.

In fact, we already know they've Reaped other worlds before Earth. The demo of Shepard and Anderson has them fighting Husks made from Batarians and Humans.

[JGDD]

Ixalmaris wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Hmm. I thought there were closer systems from ME1. But maybe that's the case.

So? Bypass earth and go to the Citadel to shut down the relay network. War won.
Instead the reapers attack Stalingrad earth to get bogged down and loose initiative, giving the other races a chance to organize.
And just because Shepard? Highly improbable that the Reapers would have emotions of revenge. If the Reapers disable the Relays Shepard can do nothing.

Not arguing that at all. Was thinking that a closer system would allow access to another relay sooner so they could head to the Citadel and start commencing chaos by shutting down the others.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Earth is diner on the way to New York(Citadel) so of cause the reapers is gonna trash it.. they are just a bunch of nasty bikers.

[Walker White]

Humanity is a major power either way. They have also shown that they are the only force to thwart or slow down the reapers. So you take them out first on the way to taking everyone else. And as had been mentioned here, you take out a force by destroying the will first, not focusing on attrition. So that means Earth first.

The beachhead arguments, on the other hand, are not complelling, because the Reapers do not appear to be constrainted by logisitics. What the heck is a Reaper supply line?

[Dean_the_Young]

Walker White wrote...

Humanity is a major power either way. They have also shown that they are the only force to thwart or slow down the reapers. So you take them out first on the way to taking everyone else. And as had been mentioned here, you take out a force by destroying the will first, not focusing on attrition. So that means Earth first.

The beachhead arguments, on the other hand, are not complelling, because the Reapers do not appear to be constrainted by logisitics. What the heck is a Reaper supply line?

Indoctrinated forces supplies, husk transportation, Occuli production.

Plus any place to repair Reaper battle damage.

[naes1984]

[/quote]

So? Bypass earth and go to the Citadel to shut down the relay network. War won.
Instead the reapers attack Stalingrad earth to get bogged down and loose initiative, giving the other races a chance to organize.
And just because Shepard? Highly improbable that the Reapers would have emotions of revenge. If the Reapers disable the Relays Shepard can do nothing.

[/quote]

That is true but I think we've seen from the interaction Shepard has had with Sovereign that the Reapers do in fact have the capacity for arrogance and miscalculation. Arrogance suggests emotions. Sovereign actually seems to be trying to psych out Shepard by saying things like "You are cosmic dust" blah, blah, blah. Reapers may not be entirely governed by mere calculations and probabilities. Contrast this with Skynet from Terminator (I ignore Terminator Salvation of course which is pure garbage). Skynet does not communicate or have a voice to explain itself. It simply made the calculation to wipe out humans in a fraction of a second and goes about it in the most resource-efficient way. I find it possible that the Reapers "feel" like their hand has been forced by this species of shaved apes on a backwater planet and want to eliminate the threat (however unlikely) before proceeding with their tried and true method of shutting down the relays. Then again I'm just speculating.

[1136342t54_]

Walker White wrote...

Humanity is a major power either way. They have also shown that they are the only force to thwart or slow down the reapers. So you take them out first on the way to taking everyone else. And as had been mentioned here, you take out a force by destroying the will first, not focusing on attrition. So that means Earth first.

The beachhead arguments, on the other hand, are not complelling, because the Reapers do not appear to be constrainted by logisitics. What the heck is a Reaper supply line?

I wouldn't necessarily say that. Even though its obvious bioware attempted to hype up humanity after ME2 I'd still say the numbers of ships the Citadel races lost were insufficient compared to the amount they actually have. When humanity had a fleet of 200 ships to take out the Turian force even then it was pretty assured the Turians would have stomped humanity into the ground when going into full on war production. I actually see it as the Council races focusing on there own territory and preparing for another Geth or possibly a future Reaper attack and let the SA and Turians take over more policing duties.

[Ixalmaris]

naes1984 wrote...

So? Bypass earth and go to the Citadel to shut down the relay network. War won.
Instead the reapers attack Stalingrad earth to get bogged down and loose initiative, giving the other races a chance to organize.
And just because Shepard? Highly improbable that the Reapers would have emotions of revenge. If the Reapers disable the Relays Shepard can do nothing.

That is true but I think we've seen from the interaction Shepard has had with Sovereign that the Reapers do in fact have the capacity for arrogance and miscalculation. Arrogance suggests emotions. Sovereign actually seems to be trying to psych out Shepard by saying things like "You are cosmic dust" blah, blah, blah. Reapers may not be entirely governed by mere calculations and probabilities. Contrast this with Skynet from Terminator (I ignore Terminator Salvation of course which is pure garbage). Skynet does not communicate or have a voice to explain itself. It simply made the calculation to wipe out humans in a fraction of a second and goes about it in the most resource-efficient way. I find it possible that the Reapers "feel" like their hand has been forced by this species of shaved apes on a backwater planet and want to eliminate the threat (however unlikely) before proceeding with their tried and true method of shutting down the relays. Then again I'm just speculating.

Even when the Reapers do want to finish off earth for some idiotic (for a machine race) reason there are more efficient ways to do it than a ground assault. Bombarding the planat with Mass Drivers for a few days should be enough to practically kill every human there and to destroy the ecosphere.

As for the power of humanity, they still have the by far lowest number of Dreadnoughts of all council races. The rest of their military likely follows this trend. Not minor, but the weakest of the council races.

Modifié par Ixalmaris, 13 octobre 2011 - 06:23 .

[1136342t54_]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Even when the Reapers do want to finish off earth for some idiotic (for a machine race) reason there are more efficient ways to do it than a ground assault. Bombarding the planat with Mass Drivers for a few days should be enough to practically kill every human there and to destroy the ecosphere.

As for the power of humanity, they still have the by far lowest number of Dreadnoughts of all council races. The rest of their military likely follows this trend. Not minor, but the weakest of the council races.

Reapers want to use humanity for a new Reaper not kill off the entire race. Earth has 11 billion people on it. Assuming that the Reapers only want a billion humans The way they are doing it is good enough. Land Reapers and Reaper agents on the planet to indoctrinate the populace. Human weaponry is unable to damage Reapers at least not enough to make them a problem.

[Robhuzz]

Mainly to increase drama. Would Shepard care that much if it were another home planet? Don't answer that question by the way.

The other reason is, of course, to harvest humans to turn into a new Reaper. Since Shepard destroyed the one that was being created in the Collector base, they'll need to build a new one. I imagine in between all the destruction, the Reapers will try to keep a few million humans alive long enough to turn into goo.

[OMTING52601]

Plot motivation. Period. Most players are totally able to suspend their disbelief and go with the story being told. Those few who point out the errors in the plotline... well, we'll be overlooked, LOL! Fiction writing 101 - get the audience to suspend their disbelief and they're hooked.

[Ixalmaris]

1136342t54 wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Even when the Reapers do want to finish off earth for some idiotic (for a machine race) reason there are more efficient ways to do it than a ground assault. Bombarding the planat with Mass Drivers for a few days should be enough to practically kill every human there and to destroy the ecosphere.

As for the power of humanity, they still have the by far lowest number of Dreadnoughts of all council races. The rest of their military likely follows this trend. Not minor, but the weakest of the council races.

Reapers want to use humanity for a new Reaper not kill off the entire race. Earth has 11 billion people on it. Assuming that the Reapers only want a billion humans The way they are doing it is good enough. Land Reapers and Reaper agents on the planet to indoctrinate the populace. Human weaponry is unable to damage Reapers at least not enough to make them a problem.

If they want humans alive then they would be better served to leave earth alone till the war is won (shutting down the relay network).
Attacking earth first will only result in dead humans and they would have to divert resources from the war effort.

[1136342t54_]

Ixalmaris wrote...
If they want humans alive then they would be better served to leave earth alone till the war is won (shutting down the relay network).
Attacking earth first will only result in dead humans and they would have to divert resources from the war effort.

This has been stated multiple times. The Reapers are attacking from the Galactic south. The Relay at the Batarian system was the quickest way to Earth. Now they have to go through a specific set of Relays to hit Earth. Remember how on the Galaxy map they show a path where you have to go to hit specific Relays? Well it seems in canon you can't just magically hit the Citadel. The Reapers are going through every enemy in there way. Batarians, Humans, Turians etc. Those were the first three races attacked. Reapers haven't made it to the Citadel yet which can be closed off or booby trapped.  Attacking Earth first would result in the SA being mostly crippled, sending a message to Shepard and also gaining enough Humans for a Reaper. You are assuming they need all Humans everywhere when that is likely wrong. The Reapers can easily kill off the majority of Humanity and still likely have enough for a Reaper.

[Gabey5]

Dean_the_Young wrote...



]Not really. Besides being utterly misaimed (a beachhead only works when you're on the same continent, let alone same planet), there are literally hundreds of solar systems and worlds between the Alpha Relay and Earth the Reapers could use as a staging point. They don't need Earth for that.

In fact, we already know they've Reaped other worlds before Earth. The demo of Shepard and Anderson has them fighting Husks made from Batarians and Humans.

Staging area then

Well this makes it more personal. Would Shepard or the player care as much if it was a random planet being taken over? i would also assume their is a reason why the reapers are taking Earth so early as they are pretty methodical and detached. Shepard defeating delaying them twice probably made it personal

[naes1984]

Ixalmaris wrote...

naes1984 wrote...

So? Bypass earth and go to the Citadel to shut down the relay network. War won.
Instead the reapers attack Stalingrad earth to get bogged down and loose initiative, giving the other races a chance to organize.
And just because Shepard? Highly improbable that the Reapers would have emotions of revenge. If the Reapers disable the Relays Shepard can do nothing.

That is true but I think we've seen from the interaction Shepard has had with Sovereign that the Reapers do in fact have the capacity for arrogance and miscalculation. Arrogance suggests emotions. Sovereign actually seems to be trying to psych out Shepard by saying things like "You are cosmic dust" blah, blah, blah. Reapers may not be entirely governed by mere calculations and probabilities. Contrast this with Skynet from Terminator (I ignore Terminator Salvation of course which is pure garbage). Skynet does not communicate or have a voice to explain itself. It simply made the calculation to wipe out humans in a fraction of a second and goes about it in the most resource-efficient way. I find it possible that the Reapers "feel" like their hand has been forced by this species of shaved apes on a backwater planet and want to eliminate the threat (however unlikely) before proceeding with their tried and true method of shutting down the relays. Then again I'm just speculating.

Even when the Reapers do want to finish off earth for some idiotic (for a machine race) reason there are more efficient ways to do it than a ground assault. Bombarding the planat with Mass Drivers for a few days should be enough to practically kill every human there and to destroy the ecosphere.

As for the power of humanity, they still have the by far lowest number of Dreadnoughts of all council races. The rest of their military likely follows this trend. Not minor, but the weakest of the council races.

From what little we all know about the game, it seems that although Earth is a major target, it is not the only target. We've heard that there will be a Reaper(s) on Tuchunka (supposedly getting a Reaper to fight a Threser Maw), on Sur'Kesh (turret sequence), and the Galactic map will have "conflict zones" which are probably other places where the Reapers are attacking. I'm guessing that all of this is going on after Shepard escapes but while the Reapers are still pacifying Earth. I don't think the Reapers are necessarily putting all their eggs in one basket. Obviously Shepard is going to care the most about Earth but the attack might be more of a Galaxy-wide blitzkrieg then the Reapers putting all their eggs in one basket.
As for the Citadel, can someone answer this: Is it impregnable when it is closed? Also, would the Reapers have a way to force it open? If so, it might make sense for the Reapers to bypass the Citadel if they have no means of forcing it open.

[Ixalmaris]

1136342t54 wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...
If they want humans alive then they would be better served to leave earth alone till the war is won (shutting down the relay network).
Attacking earth first will only result in dead humans and they would have to divert resources from the war effort.

This has been stated multiple times. The Reapers are attacking from the Galactic south. The Relay at the Batarian system was the quickest way to Earth. Now they have to go through a specific set of Relays to hit Earth. Remember how on the Galaxy map they show a path where you have to go to hit specific Relays? Well it seems in canon you can't just magically hit the Citadel. The Reapers are going through every enemy in there way. Batarians, Humans, Turians etc. Those were the first three races attacked. Reapers haven't made it to the Citadel yet which can be closed off or booby trapped.  Attacking Earth first would result in the SA being mostly crippled, sending a message to Shepard and also gaining enough Humans for a Reaper. You are assuming they need all Humans everywhere when that is likely wrong. The Reapers can easily kill off the majority of Humanity and still likely have enough for a Reaper.

Just because it has been said several times doesn't make it any more sensible.
The reaper fleet is unstoppable except when the entire galaxy has time to organize a defense. And with the relay network being controlled from the Citadel the reapers pretty much win when they take it now it is every planet/system for itself.

If they would go directly for the Citadel no one could stop them. By stopping at every planet to attack it first, with time consuming ground attacks non the less, they just give the galaxy the time they need to form a defense.
Stalingrad is a pretty good analogy to what the Reapers are doing on earth.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sabey, except the Reapers already have staging areas. They're, well, the ones they gathered their cannibal-husks and prepared to attack from Earth to.

The reasons Earth is important to the Reapers is their priorities, not because of logistical need.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 13 octobre 2011 - 06:44 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Just because it has been said several times doesn't make it any more sensible.
The reaper fleet is unstoppable except when the entire galaxy has time to organize a defense. And with the relay network being controlled from the Citadel the reapers pretty much win when they take it now it is every planet/system for itself.

Unless there was some sort of nominally Reaper-exclusive technology to bypass locked-down Mass Relays. Some sort of, I don't know, indentification system tied to the Relays that could tell the Relays to not let anyone without it use the Relays.

If such a technology were replicable, and had fallen into galactic hands before the Reapers could get to the Citadel...

[Someone With Mass]

Who says that they're all on Earth?

Multitasking, people. I'm pretty sure they're capable of it.

[Ixalmaris]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Just because it has been said several times doesn't make it any more sensible.
The reaper fleet is unstoppable except when the entire galaxy has time to organize a defense. And with the relay network being controlled from the Citadel the reapers pretty much win when they take it now it is every planet/system for itself.

Unless there was some sort of nominally Reaper-exclusive technology to bypass locked-down Mass Relays. Some sort of, I don't know, indentification system tied to the Relays that could tell the Relays to not let anyone without it use the Relays.

If such a technology were replicable, and had fallen into galactic hands before the Reapers could get to the Citadel...

1. The Omega IV Relay was not locked down, it did just send you into a "minefield" unless you had the IFF.

2. With Shepard working for Cerberus and the rather short time between the end of ME2 and the arrival of the Reapers it is highly unlikely that any ship besides the Normandy posesses the Reaper IFF or even that anyone knows of its existance. Its even unkown if replicating the IFF is possible. And even if, a locked down galaxy would also prevent this technology from spreading.

Modifié par Ixalmaris, 13 octobre 2011 - 06:54 .